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Suspended for stating facts? (1 Viewer)

TheIronSheik said:
I'm all for hearing both sides.  But the reason I snapped back at him was because his argument was, "He should know better."  That wasn't the point of the thread.  Things will never get better if we allow people to lose their jobs over things that aren't racist.  

But, fair enough.  I've learned my lesson.  I think I'm done participating in any kind of thread that isn't about weather or television.  As I said, there was a time on this board when everyone wasn't so serious.  It was a fun place that smart people could discuss pretty deep subjects.  That time has long passed and I guess that's on me for trying to cling on to the glory days.  
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Its a growing problem. Essentially the smart folks realize there is no winning by trying to have discussions because the of the risk. And here we are. 

The meek shall inherit the Earth. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Not at all--you are a great contributor to these boards--and you should participate more--not less.  My only point is that the beauty of this forum is that it is a tool that can be used to invite intelligent conversation.  Intelligent conversation involves an exchange of different of views in an inviting and polite way.  Being dismissive and confrontational about and towards any opposing points of view is not intelligent conversation--in fact--it is the opposite of it.  A great thread is one where different points of view and facets are discussed and digested.   That can and should be done without the fear of confrontation or snark.     Keep in mind--I'm not trying to point fun at you or accuse you of anything bad---this is something we all need to work on as a community.   If I came across as being hostile towards you--I want to make transparently clear that it wasn't my goal or intention.  
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Between this thread and your input in the watch thread I like the cut of your jib. 

 
This seems a good time to point out the NFL actually used a white football for night games way back when.  I do wonder if this created issues for DLinemen back then, when white guys' hands would hide the white football.  Are we crazy over the top with PC, especially regarding race, yes.  Does that mean you should be the trail blazer trying to teach us all the wrongs of our ways, up to you.  As for me, i'll sit this one out.  I have enough to deal with without worrying about the PC police coming after me when I have absolutely no skin in the game.  Sometimes just cause you think it in your head doesn't mean you should blurt it out. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
I wonder if FoxSports refers to Ronde Barber at the "Color Guy" when talking about the Kenny Albert/Ronde Barber pairing.

Seems like that could get awkward.
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For some reason, this made me think of:

Michael Scott: ...some burritos or some colored greens or some pad thai.

Stanley: It's collard greens.

Michael Scott: What?

Stanley: It's collard greens.

Michael Scott: That doesn't make sense. You don't call them 'collard people'... that's offensive.
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[icon] said:
I got 2 weeks here for telling someone "shouldn't you be at work at (employer)?" after a string of terrible posts. Not a doxxing, info was known. 

Most People are charmin soft these days. :lol:  
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You left out the part where you asked why they weren't checking at their job and ex explorer let you out early. But hey lets not go by facts. You were also trolling in the thread the entire game to everyone. I didn't report you btw I'm sure someone else did. 

If you want to feel better I got a week suspension for the fact I joked about Romo not having info correct and maybe he wasn't thinking straight because he was high off meds for his injury issues going back to his playing days. 

Now I will agree with you the board is pretty soft these days. Also when we get suspended I was told we are suppose to be given an explanation for said suspension by a Mod either it was Joe or Someone other mod said this. The mod who suspended both of us didn't give an explanation and simple put the usual "don't". 

 
TheIronSheik said:
I know the FFA doesn't have a good track record of discussing anything race related.  And usually if you mention race, people think (for some crazy reason) that it should be in the political forum.  But I think we can have a decent conversation here about this.

The 49ers suspended their radio analyst for saying Lamar Jackson is good at deception because the ball, his uniform and his hands are all dark.  Apparently it's no longer acceptable to point out that black people have dark skin.  

Look, I think everyone understands that we shouldn't say racist things.  But saying a black person has dark skin is not racist.  There was no stereotype.  No derogatory comment.  Nothing mean was said.  Things like this are what's going to drive our country apart.  People who are not racist are being labeled as racist.  If you were continually called racist and lost your job because of false accusations, what do you think that's going to lead to?  My guess is a real hatred for the people who accused you of racism.  

Why won't more smart people stand up to things like this and say, "Hey.  STHU.  This guy didn't say anything remotely racist and we should not punish him for what he said."  We are slowly sowing the seeds of more hate in this country by accusing good people of being horrible, nasty racists when it isn't actually true.  

LINK
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I agree it was dumb to suspended him for a week for this. When you first started this I thought someone here was suspended a week for stating facts which wouldn't have surprised me. 

I've talked about this issue with a few close friends before and one other person. I've talked about topics about Defending Israeli Government for sponsoring terrorists and being called all kinds of names for defending Palestinians right to the land in the Gaza Strip from being called a Nazi, Trump supporter, racist etc. Simple for stating facts our own media doesn't report on. My example is why people won't stand up to these things. One of the biggest accusations you can make on a person other then accusing them of being a Pedo is a racist. So many people stay clear off the topic in general. 

For another example the whole BlackLivesMatter movement I simple called out some of the bogus claims. I said Native American's have it even worse but the news doesn't get the ratings it does for Cop on Native American Crime as Cop on Blacks does. I was called a racist by people supporting the BLM cause. I brought up a CNN article of stats saying a Cop is more likely to shoot an unarmed Native then they are a black person or other minority. How Cops fail to report addictions and R*pes of Native women and are involved in human trafficking of native women. Many of these things far worse then anything Black people deal with. It's not to say Cops aren't bad to Blacks which they are. It's simple stating the Whole Slogan BLM is inaccurate and not inclusive of other minority groups who have it as bad or worse. People don't like being called racist and it's as simple as that. 

I really wish I had a better answer for the bolded but thats the truth. 

 
[icon] said:
I got 2 weeks here for telling someone "shouldn't you be at work at (employer)?" after a string of terrible posts. Not a doxxing, info was known. 

Most People are charmin soft these days. :lol:  
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No complaining. Back to the hole for you.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Now I'm wondering if there's a rule that says a pitcher's hand and arm can't be painted white with red stitches etched into it?  Maybe get a tattoo sleeve that looks like baseballs all over your hand and wrist.  Batters would be so confused trying to read the pitch coming out of his hand.
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Actually know the sleeve rule for a fact as I use to pitch and happened to me I wore a White Long Sleeve under my uniform but didn't realize when I went to pitch Umpire came over and said I had to either roll up the sleeves or take the shirt off as the Ball would blend into my sleeve. Also in MLB a few times pitchers with arm sleeve Tats were asked to cover them do to it "being a distraction" to the batters. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
As I said, there was a time on this board when everyone wasn't so serious.  It was a fun place that smart people could discuss pretty deep subjects.  That time has long passed and I guess that's on me for trying to cling on to the glory days.  
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It can still happen but a lot of threads either start as outrage or outrage to the outrage. Even this one was pretty much the latter and people who are outraged or outraged at the outrage have already planted their flag and dug in their heels. You didn't really consider anyone's arguments here, your mind was made up in post one and you've defended that position throughout, which, fair enough. 

There's lots of intelligent discussion here still but you certainly have to filter through (real or perceived) outrage, and outrage at the (real or perceived) outrage. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
5 people on Twitter get upset that a white weatherman in Mississippi says the black ice is dangerous, then the next thing you know the national media is putting it as one of their top news stories.  Guy gets suspended and is branded a racist for the rest of his life.  All because 5 idiots on Twitter wanted their 15 minutes of fame by being the person that found the racism hidden in the rough. (This is a made up story, but it's pretty much how it works nowadays.)
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Also stuff like this doesn't help. There are many instances where people are too sensitive and the outrage is manufactured but there are also many instances where the outrage is warranted. 

I see arguments like the above all the time that make up some stupid thing that people are apparently upset over, even though no one actually is, with the intent of just saying, "everyone is too sensitive and looking for things to be outraged about these days" which I guess is easier than actually looking at every issue on a case by case basis and seeing what really should be discussed and maybe changed, and what is just faux-outrage, or something no one is actually upset about - like 'black ice' or dare I say 'merry Christmas'. 

 
Has this been asked:  Is what he said correct?  Does having darker skin help with this?  I have no clue.  
 

Regardless, in this day and age every adult and frankly children should know better than to speak anything about race especially if you’re white. People fear the left more than they fear God. Sad times IMO. 

 
Northern Voice said:
Also stuff like this doesn't help. There are many instances where people are too sensitive and the outrage is manufactured but there are also many instances where the outrage is warranted. 

I see arguments like the above all the time that make up some stupid thing that people are apparently upset over, even though no one actually is, with the intent of just saying, "everyone is too sensitive and looking for things to be outraged about these days" which I guess is easier than actually looking at every issue on a case by case basis and seeing what really should be discussed and maybe changed, and what is just faux-outrage, or something no one is actually upset about - like 'black ice' or dare I say 'merry Christmas'. 
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I was making a joke.  At no point was that "example" supposed to be taken seriously.  You kind of prove my point that this board has become too serious and can't laugh anymore.

 
Players come to his defense. Good to see they stood up to this ridiculousness.  

Richard Sherman:

I understand how it can be taken under a certain context and be offensive to some. But if you’re saying, this is a brown ball, they’re wearing dark colors, and he has a brown arm, honestly, sometimes we were having trouble seeing it on film.
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TheIronSheik said:
I was making a joke.  At no point was that "example" supposed to be taken seriously.  You kind of prove my point that this board has become too serious and can't laugh anymore.
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Except it wasn't just a joke, it was part of a point you were trying to prove by bringing in some sort of false equivalency and then when you're called on it you yet again just default to "see people take things too seriously". 

 
Northern Voice said:
Except it wasn't just a joke, it was part of a point you were trying to prove by bringing in some sort of false equivalency and then when you're called on it you yet again just default to "see people take things too seriously". 
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No.  I wasn't.  It was the whole reason I explicitly stated that what I wrote wasn't a true story.  It was meant to be funny.  It's an easy joke that everyone from Key and Peele have done about black ice and white weathermen saying it.  It was meant to lighten things up.  

Again, this is my whole point.  I made a joke about black ice and you're turning it into a racial argument.  Honestly, I'm starting to understand why Shuke is skeptical of the whole idea of black ice.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
Golf uses white balls, pretty sure there are some albino pigs out there where football could do the same.  But they won't because of demographics.
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Then everyone would want to wear their white jerseys for every game.

TheIronSheik said:
5 people on Twitter get upset that a white weatherman in Mississippi says the black ice is dangerous, then the next thing you know the national media is putting it as one of their top news stories.  Guy gets suspended and is branded a racist for the rest of his life.  All because 5 idiots on Twitter wanted their 15 minutes of fame by being the person that found the racism hidden in the rough. (This is a made up story, but it's pretty much how it works nowadays.)
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Especially if you hear him say "black guys" instead of "black ice."  Enunciate!
I know it's made up, but I have had this reaction when hearing a weatherman say this and thought he said "guys."  Wait, what?

 
TheIronSheik said:
I know the FFA doesn't have a good track record of discussing anything race related.  And usually if you mention race, people think (for some crazy reason) that it should be in the political forum.  But I think we can have a decent conversation here about this.

The 49ers suspended their radio analyst for saying Lamar Jackson is good at deception because the ball, his uniform and his hands are all dark.  Apparently it's no longer acceptable to point out that black people have dark skin.  
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Make all QBs wear football coloured gloves. Problem solved

 
I haven't been paying much attention here, but was just listening to Wiggy on 103.7 and those guys are fired up.  I don't know enough about all this to have an opinion, but I wanted to mention something.  I was forced to remove a long sleeve white sweatshirt while pitching in high school baseball. When I ask why, the ump said it was a rule because the white sleeve made it hard to see the white ball.  Does anyone know if it's a college baseball or mlb rule also?  Anyway, I just thought of that incident and I figured I would mention it.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
No.  I wasn't.  It was the whole reason I explicitly stated that what I wrote wasn't a true story.  It was meant to be funny.  It's an easy joke that everyone from Key and Peele have done about black ice and white weathermen saying it.  It was meant to lighten things up.  

Again, this is my whole point.  I made a joke about black ice and you're turning it into a racial argument.  Honestly, I'm starting to understand why Shuke is skeptical of the whole idea of black ice.
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No I'm not. You're using anyone daring to call you out on your crap argument as evidence that people get upset about everything, which is pretty brilliant, I guess really, because when they then call you out for that you think it just proves your point. 

 
Northern Voice said:
No I'm not. You're using anyone daring to call you out on your crap argument as evidence that people get upset about everything, which is pretty brilliant, I guess really, because when they then call you out for that you think it just proves your point. 
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Ok

 
Lots of blame to go around.   In some ways, the 49ers are to blame for suspending announcer rather than holding firm that the guy really didn't do anything wrong.   I know its smart business but they're just part of the problem.   In addition, not in this case b/c the 49ers acted quickly, but if the niners didn't act and then the public backlash becomes even louder, at some point advertisers begin to pull out so they're partly to blame as well.   Once again, I know its just business.    For the media, reporting on this stuff in the manner they do gets clicks so that's just business as well.    In the end, its just a very tiny vocal minority starting this and then everyone else doing what's makes the most business sense.  

 
PIK95 said:
I haven't been paying much attention here, but was just listening to Wiggy on 103.7 and those guys are fired up.  I don't know enough about all this to have an opinion, but I wanted to mention something.  I was forced to remove a long sleeve white sweatshirt while pitching in high school baseball. When I ask why, the ump said it was a rule because the white sleeve made it hard to see the white ball.  Does anyone know if it's a college baseball or mlb rule also?  Anyway, I just thought of that incident and I figured I would mention it.  
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If you were a high school pitcher you should have known that you cannot wear white undersleeves while pitching.  If you didn't know your coach should have known.  This is a standard baseball rule that is at all levels.  Pitchers cannot have white sleeves or white gloves.  The umps can also ask them to remove batting gloves if they are wearing one on their glove hand.  These are standard baseball rules. 

 
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Gally said:
If you were a high school pitcher you should have known that you cannot where white undersleeves while pitching.  If you didn't know your coach should have known.  This is a standard baseball rule that is at all levels.  Pitchers cannot have white sleeves or white gloves.  The umps can also ask them to remove batting gloves if they are wearing one on their glove hand.  These are standard baseball rules. 
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I love that during the Player's Weekend this year, MLB had to have the pitchers of the teams wearing white switch to their black hats because they didn't realize a white hat would be hard on the hitter's vision. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
I know the FFA doesn't have a good track record of discussing anything race related.  And usually if you mention race, people think (for some crazy reason) that it should be in the political forum.  But I think we can have a decent conversation here about this.

The 49ers suspended their radio analyst for saying Lamar Jackson is good at deception because the ball, his uniform and his hands are all dark.  Apparently it's no longer acceptable to point out that black people have dark skin.  

Look, I think everyone understands that we shouldn't say racist things.  But saying a black person has dark skin is not racist.  There was no stereotype.  No derogatory comment.  Nothing mean was said.  Things like this are what's going to drive our country apart.  People who are not racist are being labeled as racist.  If you were continually called racist and lost your job because of false accusations, what do you think that's going to lead to?  My guess is a real hatred for the people who accused you of racism.  

Why won't more smart people stand up to things like this and say, "Hey.  STHU.  This guy didn't say anything remotely racist and we should not punish him for what he said."  We are slowly sowing the seeds of more hate in this country by accusing good people of being horrible, nasty racists when it isn't actually true.  

LINK
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If this is a subject that you are passionate about I would highly recommend the movie No Safe Spaces.  This is a movie with people that are standing up as you propose.

No Safe Spaces Trailer

You should be able to share ideas without fear of being fired from your job - Adam Carolla
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It is only playing in limited locations, and I haven't seen it yet, but I would really like to.

 
I'm really hesitant to enter this thread because there is a degree of context that I lack. That said, I think context is a big thing here and I have at least some to bring to bear. Growing up in a small, considerably racist town, I don't seem to recall any jokes about actual color that separated the physical components of color with that of race and racial implications. It seemed that those most worried about "colors," "hiding." "not being able to be seen at night," etc., were indeed the ones with a million racial jokes up their sleeves and some form of racial animus at some point.

This isn't pure logic; people's reactions are contextual and they were viewing his points in the spirit of a million heretofore told "jokes" about a racial minority and difficulty in seeing them at night, against the backdrop of darker-colored things, etc.

I feel like my life is hardly politically correct. I have a hard time believing, growing up a nice little racist small town, that this discussion was inherently innocent.

THAT SAID:

There's a huge problem when one goes to thoughtcrime or preemptive ones. To stem the tide of racism by suspending this person seems counterproductive. Perhaps if he sat and listened to the pain caused by these jokes that often betrayed deeper racial animus, he might not be so willing to discuss the things we accept as true, but are not productive to polite company or polite conversation. Maybe instead of even a racial sensitivity class, a discussion of etiquette and manners and when it is appropriate to discuss another person's genetic makeup as manifest is allowable and when not.

I can't believe that anybody heard that and didn't dismiss it as stupid grandfather racism rather than something more inherently sick, something actionable, like say, police treatment and institutional racism as relates to people of color and foreigners. The latter is desperately needed in order for society not to fracture; the former just stupid stuff you try and fart off at Thanksgiving.

Speaking of which, that was a long week ago, it seems. 

 
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PIK95 said:
I haven't been paying much attention here, but was just listening to Wiggy on 103.7 and those guys are fired up.  I don't know enough about all this to have an opinion, but I wanted to mention something.  I was forced to remove a long sleeve white sweatshirt while pitching in high school baseball. When I ask why, the ump said it was a rule because the white sleeve made it hard to see the white ball.  Does anyone know if it's a college baseball or mlb rule also?  Anyway, I just thought of that incident and I figured I would mention it.  
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It's a rule from Little League on up to MLB.

As a umpire, I once had to go to a kid's coach and have him tell his player to take his white sweatshirt off.

 
I agree that political correctness and faux outrage are way out of balance.  It takes so little for people to get outraged these days and just a few loudmouths on twitter can ruin careers.

When almost everything draws outrage the real issues we should be worried about can get buried and lost.

TIS is right on.

 
Mentioning the color of someone's skin in this context should be no different than mentioning their hair color. So ridiculous. This world is crazy. 

 
The_Man said:
I don't think the statement itself was racist. But it does speak to a continuing mindset - when Peyton Manning is a wizard of the ball fake and play action pass, it's a tribute to his intelligence, hard work, and determination to master every aspect of playing the quarterback position. When Lamar Jackson shows similar mastery, it's because the ball blends into his arm and jersey. 

I would like to get to a place where the conversation is simply: "Lamar was really incredible with his ball handling and decision making." Because I must say, having watched every Ravens snap this season, the 22-year-old has made the wrong read on whether to keep the ball or hand it off about 2 times all season. And yet I haven't heard much conversation about the high football IQ he's demonstrated in orchestrating a record-setting offense.
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Post of the thread. (AAA's post not withstanding lol)

 
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