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Where did the social distancing shamers disappear to?


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A week ago groups of 10 were not allowed, with masks. Now groups of 100+, even thousands are okay? Is corona "peacefully protesting", and waiting this out? Did the goalposts get moved? In layman's terms, please help explain this to me. I am but a simple person. What are the rules now?

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14 minutes ago, LoadLetterPaper said:

A week ago groups of 10 were not allowed, with masks. Now groups of 100+, even thousands are okay? Is corona "peacefully protesting", and waiting this out? Did the goalposts get moved? In layman's terms, please help explain this to me. I am but a simple person. What are the rules now?

NFL started with goalposts on the goal line, then moved them back to the end line, then back to the goal line, then back to the end line again.  So, yeah.

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46 minutes ago, LoadLetterPaper said:

A week ago groups of 10 were not allowed, with masks. Now groups of 100+, even thousands are okay? Is corona "peacefully protesting", and waiting this out? Did the goalposts get moved? In layman's terms, please help explain this to me. I am but a simple person. What are the rules now?

A virus holds no political agenda.  The protests will cause the virus to spread and if the country forgets about the virus and moves on, you’ll be quarantined again.

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These protests are by nature civil disobedience.  The question is whether the societal harm caused by the likely increased spread of the virus outweighs the potential benefit of criminal justice and other reforms that these protests could bring about.  

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

The question is whether the societal harm caused by the likely increased spread of the virus outweighs the potential benefit of criminal justice and other reforms that these protests could bring about.  

It's impossible to know what positive effects the movement may bring about but we can be pretty damn sure about the negative consequences of mass gatherings in the time of a novel virus.* Basing the permissibility of such gatherings on their political content is arbitrary and capricious.

*Unless we don't see a spike in cases in which case don't we have to start opening things back up much more quickly?

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4 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

These protests are by nature civil disobedience.  The question is whether the societal harm caused by the likely increased spread of the virus outweighs the potential benefit of criminal justice and other reforms that these protests could bring about.  

More people will die from the spread of COVID due to the protests than the number of people who have been killed by cops in the last decade.

And while I thought the people upset and gripping about church being closed were morons, it's really not that different than getting together to protest.

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3 minutes ago, Murph said:

It's impossible to know what positive effects the movement may bring about but we can be pretty damn sure about the negative consequences of mass gatherings in the time of a novel virus.* Basing the permissibility of such gatherings on their political content is arbitrary and capricious.

*Unless we don't see a spike in cases in which case don't we have to start opening things back up much more quickly?

Great post Murph.

Sadly, if there is no spike and the ICUs and hospital beds are not overwhelmed, I do not think any of these "Phases" for reopening would change. The Governors and Mayors have their minds made up. 

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1 minute ago, Jaysus said:

Wait... who said it was ok now?

We've seen mayors and governors appearing with the protestors in violation of their own Stay at Home orders. If that's not deeming them as OK then I don't know what is.

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Unfortunately they are expecting a big spike in new COVID cases in the heavily protested areas in the next 2 weeks.  Just as things were slowing down too.  A pundit said hundreds could be infected at a single protest then spread it to thousands.

Edited by Da Guru
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18 minutes ago, Murph said:

It's impossible to know what positive effects the movement may bring about but we can be pretty damn sure about the negative consequences of mass gatherings in the time of a novel virus.* Basing the permissibility of such gatherings on their political content is arbitrary and capricious.

*Unless we don't see a spike in cases in which case don't we have to start opening things back up much more quickly?

I am still 99% self isolating because of situations at home, so I'm not out protesting. But from afar, I'm curiously watching this. If we do not see a spike in 2 weeks then that will really go a long way for me to start possibly relaxing some of my self imposed habits surrounding CV19. And I live in an area where peaceful protesting is happening, so I can use it as an accurate measuring stick. 

Let's just hope that the reported numbers in 2 weeks are really truthful. 

Edited by glvsav37
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27 minutes ago, shader said:

A virus holds no political agenda.  The protests will cause the virus to spread and if the country forgets about the virus and moves on, you’ll be quarantined again.

Honestly if this does not happen then we were duped, again.

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1 minute ago, glvsav37 said:

I am still 99% self isolating because of situations at home, so I'm not out protesting

Same. My wife and I have discussed what we should do and neither of us is comfortable going out right now. So for now we're just donating to Campaign Zero. We'd like to do more but I'm just not willing to be in a crowd right now.

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14 minutes ago, Jaysus said:

Wait... who said it was ok now?

They did...you know, them. The same anonymous people that are always sited by sources who wish to remain nameless because they are not authorized to issue statements...but they issue statements. Those guys.

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In one of the protests I attended this weekend I kindly asked fellow protesters to remember to stay spaced at least 6 feet apart to remember social distancing restrictions.  They kindly asked me to go and have sex with myself.  I don't think they were/are too concerned with covid right now.  

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38 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

More people will die from the spread of COVID due to the protests than the number of people who have been killed by cops in the last decade.

And while I thought the people upset and gripping about church being closed were morons, it's really not that different than getting together to protest.

Really? It's not? Not any different?

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4 minutes ago, BeTheMatch said:

Really? It's not? Not any different?

Different in what sense? Are they morally equivalent? No. But from a public health perspective, please explain why one should be permissible but the other not. This is an empirical question, not a political one.

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51 minutes ago, Murph said:

It's impossible to know what positive effects the movement may bring about but we can be pretty damn sure about the negative consequences of mass gatherings in the time of a novel virus.* Basing the permissibility of such gatherings on their political content is arbitrary and capricious.

*Unless we don't see a spike in cases in which case don't we have to start opening things back up much more quickly?

It depends on how important you think the political content is.  Even if these protests don't measure up, in someone's opinion, I'm sure we could all imagine hypothetical wrongs that would merit mass protests despite the virus.

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5 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

It depends on how important you think the political content is.  Even if these protests don't measure up, in someone's opinion, I'm sure we could all imagine hypothetical wrongs that would merit mass protests despite the virus.

So who gets to decide which protests have merit?

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the greater NYC area was responsible for roughly 50% of all deaths in the US of A.

i haven't seen any of the usual cabal condemning this bull#### here in the City as it pertains to the Corona.

not a peep. 

did the urgency and danger go away overnight?

asking for a friend 

:popcorn:

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2 minutes ago, Murph said:

Different in what sense? Are they morally equivalent? No. But from a public health perspective, please explain why one should be permissible but the other not. This is an empirical question, not a political one.

To be fair, meeting inside in churches is definitely a higher risk than being in groups outside. Of course whether each group social distances and/or uses masks properly is also a big factor. Safe to say that most protestors didn’t seem to be doing either one though.

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1 hour ago, Jaysus said:

Wait... who said it was ok now?

Nobody did, but load letter just needs a reason to complain. 
 

It’s still important to social distance.

These protests will lead to a rise in Covid cases. 

 

edit: this is all over the news, the premise of this thread is trash. 
 

https://youtu.be/IBWj8oiFj44

Edited by bigmarc27
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I see it all over my Facebook feed and constantly hear it from traveling guests.  It's a constant stream of parents complaining that "they can be out protesting, but my kid can't have a graduation ceremony?"

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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

These protests are by nature civil disobedience.  The question is whether the societal harm caused by the likely increased spread of the virus outweighs the potential benefit of criminal justice and other reforms that these protests could bring about.  

Exactly...and I keep seeing the sentiment of "I guess Corona isn't that bad".  Just minimizing what the protest and what the anger is even about in regards to issues with policing in this country.  

Some things...are bigger than the virus.  Some things...are worth the risk to some people.

That does not make people hypocrites for wanting things to be done safely in regards to reopening...and still supporting peaceful protest.  I think many are hoping people would be safe doing that as well.

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8 minutes ago, kevzilla said:

Assuming the mods are pretty busy with their FF day jobs, because this thread belongs in the PSF.

It may be a bit borderline.  But would probably err to getting political yes.  

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1 hour ago, Jaysus said:

Wait... who said it was ok now?

Shirley you can't be serious.

 

Mississippi gov: Protests good, but no place for 'agitators' https://www.wtva.com/content/news/Governor-Reeves-responds-to-protests-over-George-Floyds-death-570942541.html

City of Springfield mayor, city manager encourage safe, lawful protests https://www.ky3.com/content/news/City-of-Springfield-mayor-city-manager-encourage-safe-lawful-protests-570934741.html

 

 

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41 minutes ago, bigmarc27 said:

Nobody did, but load letter just needs a reason to complain. 
 

It’s still important to social distance.

These protests will lead to a rise in Covid cases. 

 

edit: this is all over the news, the premise of this thread is trash. 
 

https://youtu.be/IBWj8oiFj44

Truth hurts the most, please see my links to mayors encouraging large protests

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8 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

All of us.

This is a non-answer. In reality someone with power, be it a mayor, governor, AG etc. is going to make the determination. From a constitutional perspective basing that determination on the politics of the protest seems plainly illegal. From a political perspective decrying one set of protestors as "anti-science grandma killers" (only slight hyperbole) while dismissing similar criticism of another set of protestors undermines the legitimacy of social distancing/stay at home orders.

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1 hour ago, Murph said:
1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

It depends on how important you think the political content is.  Even if these protests don't measure up, in someone's opinion, I'm sure we could all imagine hypothetical wrongs that would merit mass protests despite the virus.

So who gets to decide which protests have merit?

First off: Totally the wrong forum.

Secondly: There's no Master Puppeteer. No authority decides which protests have merit and which one don't. Protestors over here, looters over there, whatever group -- they did not seek and did not need to seek permission to protest from anyone, pandemic or not.

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Just now, Murph said:

This is a non-answer. In reality someone with power, be it a mayor, governor, AG etc. is going to make the determination. From a constitutional perspective basing that determination on the politics of the protest seems plainly illegal. From a political perspective decrying one set of protestors as "anti-science grandma killers" (only slight hyperbole) while dismissing similar criticism of another set of protestors undermines the legitimacy of social distancing/stay at home orders.

I don't understand.  People can arrange to meet for a protest without governmental approval.  

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34 minutes ago, SlaX said:

I see it all over my Facebook feed and constantly hear it from traveling guests.  It's a constant stream of parents complaining that "they can be out protesting, but my kid can't have a graduation ceremony?"

If the Facebook crew is not being rhetorical, this displays a pretty naive view of the world. Those sanctioning, say, graduation ceremonies have an express interest in the health of the students and their families.

On the other hand, prostestors show up in the public square without having seeked sanction at all. Which is fine -- just making the point that the parameters are wildly different -- and that really should be obvious.

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2 hours ago, LoadLetterPaper said:

Great post Murph.

Sadly, if there is no spike and the ICUs and hospital beds are not overwhelmed, I do not think any of these "Phases" for reopening would change. The Governors and Mayors have their minds made up. 

Really? I don't know every State's procedures but Michigan was pretty strict and we have already been in the process of relaxing it quite a bit. The bars and restaurants open in a few days. We are going to be pretty much opened up in the 2 weeks without knowing whether the protests led to a spread of the disease. 

1 hour ago, prosopis said:

Honestly if this does not happen then we were duped, again.

Were we though? We have significantly reduced the number of cases. It's less likely to spread now as we have isolated ourselves, not allowing the virus places to spread and so when we do fully return to public life (or say go protest) there is a lot less of the virus in the population to be able to spread. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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2 hours ago, irish eyes said:

Perfect topic for the hypocrites on these forums. The same ones who are outraged at people that dont follow social distancing are the ones who defend the idiot looters & criminals

I don't see too many people (or anybody) who defends looters, so that seems like quite the staw man.

There will be a massive spike in Coronavirus cases in a few weeks. It's a real concern.

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