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Let's lose some weight in 2021. Back to the grind... who else is in? (8 Viewers)

I don’t really want to derail this thread any longer, but did you ever consider the  Ornish program? It’s a plant-based diet proven to reverse coronary artery disease that’s advocated for cardiac rehab.
Solid program right here:

  • a whole foods, plant-based diet (naturally low in fat and refined carbohydrates);
  • stress management techniques (including yoga and meditation);
  • moderate exercise (such as walking); and
  • social support and community (love and intimacy).
"In short—eat well, move more, stress less, and love more."

I do the great majority of this.  Eat whole foods, not much processed.  Just can't do entirely plant based.  Though last night did have a homemade eggplant parmigiana dish.

My METs are close to 14.  Told me to just stop after 13 minutes on the stress test.  LDL is down to almost 50. I did try to have a Beyond Burger - about the worst thing you can eat. What a sodium bomb those things are.  You want to get healthy? Don't eat those...

 
Solid program right here:

  • a whole foods, plant-based diet (naturally low in fat and refined carbohydrates);
  • stress management techniques (including yoga and meditation);
  • moderate exercise (such as walking); and
  • social support and community (love and intimacy).
"In short—eat well, move more, stress less, and love more."

I do the great majority of this.  Eat whole foods, not much processed.  Just can't do entirely plant based.  Though last night did have a homemade eggplant parmigiana dish.

My METs are close to 14.  Told me to just stop after 13 minutes on the stress test.  LDL is down to almost 50. I did try to have a Beyond Burger - about the worst thing you can eat. What a sodium bomb those things are.  You want to get healthy? Don't eat those...
Sounds like you're doing great. Agree that many of the meatless burgers are garbage, analogous to the processed, sugary cr@p they fed us years ago, when low-fat was all the rage.

 
Well I eat vegetables, nuts and peanut butter.  Just not a lot of bread.  I don't eat a lot of red meat or dairy either.  So it's not Atkins.  If I eat grilled chicken, salad and a grilled veggie like asparagus, but don't have a potato, rice dish or slices of bread are you saying I don't have it right? It's not even the weight part.  I eat a bagel and I feel blown up for days.  And just try to digest that......I'm fine.  No convincing needed.  Scale, clothes and bloodwork say otherwise.
I don't think there is a single right answer.

But your diet doesn't sound as extreme as many in the low carbohydrate club. It's not too different from what I eat, except my diet substitutes fish for chicken, and probably includes more servings of soy, fruits and veggies. Plus I don't avoid whole grains or legumes (technically peanuts are legumes,I guess). Bagels aren't good for anyone, nor is white rice or a lot of potatoes.

I'm more talking about the bone broth swilling, bacon and lard crowd, especially those who limit carbohydrate intake to less than 50-100 g/day. But it's notable that the study I linked considered low carbohydrate to be less than 40% daily caloric intake, which is 200g/day for 2000 kcal intake.  

Do you count carbohydrates, or just eliminate/limit the foods you listed?

 
Ketosis promotes rapid weight loss - better than many, if not most other diets. And it improves many short-term health metrics.

My argument is it’s not sustainable, nor the healthiest way to lose weight. For the few who remain on carbohydrate restriction long term, I’d expect other health problems to crop up. What I don’t know is if these problems outweigh the benefits achieved from losing weight. There’ve been some studies looking at overall mortality based on carbohydrate intake and the source of non-carbohydrate calories, and the results seem to support my gestalt:

I know I have an uphill battle convincing Keto people to look past the scale, but IMO you’re much better off taking a slow-and-steady, non-carbohydrate restricted path featuring increased plants at the expense of animal products.
For me, it was not a keto diet but low carb and It was never a long term solution but a weight loss then transition to maintenance. 

 
https://www.runnersworld.com/news/amp36866397/intermittent-fasting-for-weight-loss-study/

Intermittent fasting, not surprisingly, leads to more efficient weight loss but can involve more muscle loss than fat if you don't work out, get enough protein, etc

It turns out that a lot of these diets are just variations on CICO.  Ketosis is more efficient but only when you're really low carb, and you still need to stay below calories. Fasting triggers a hormone response but also requires good diet and exercise habits.  Vegan diets are great if you can get enough protein, but it's hard, and you still have to watch things like iron. 

CICO is boring but time tested and gamifying it changed my life. 

 
For me, it was not a keto diet but low carb and It was never a long term solution but a weight loss then transition to maintenance. 
I guess whatever works, but to me it makes more sense to commit to sequential small changes that are healthy and sustainable. Obesity doesn't occur overnight, and there's no reason to believe the path to a healthy weight should be anything but slow and incremental. Drastic changes promote yo-yoing IMO, and healthy habits need to be learned somewhere along the line. But to be fair, I have no idea what Keto maintenance looks like. 

 
For me, it was not a keto diet but low carb and It was never a long term solution but a weight loss then transition to maintenance. 
That transition to maintenance is so much easier when you go from CICO to CICO than from keto to... not keto. I understand the allure of low carb and there are people who are best suited for low carb but I'd really encourage you to talk to your doctor about your gout and kidney stones and find an approach that works for you.  My experience with CICO is not typical but I do believe it's repeatable and I will continue to post my goods and bads with CICO as I work my way into the best shape of my life so others can learn from my experience. As someone who has had gout, and weighed 284.6 at my peak, I feel like my experience may have something to offer to someone like you. 

 
I guess whatever works, but to me it makes more sense to commit to sequential small changes that are healthy and sustainable. Obesity doesn't occur overnight, and there's no reason to believe the path to a healthy weight should be anything but slow and incremental. Drastic changes promote yo-yoing IMO, and healthy habits need to be learned somewhere along the line. But to be fair, I have no idea what Keto maintenance looks like. 
As I have written several times it wasn't keto and maintenance wouldn't be keto maintenance, it would be just balanced, healthy eating.

 
126g protein 

48g fiber

Sodium was bad again

Stayed under 1500 calories all day, then went for a run, did my grocery shopping, and had some shrimp and wine for dinner. Stayed under calories, got my protein up, did my planks and running,  and was really productive between work and home stuff.  Finished the day under calories.  Good day except for the sodium, will try to do better tomorrow 

 
That transition to maintenance is so much easier when you go from CICO to CICO than from keto to... not keto. I understand the allure of low carb and there are people who are best suited for low carb but I'd really encourage you to talk to your doctor about your gout and kidney stones and find an approach that works for you.  My experience with CICO is not typical but I do believe it's repeatable and I will continue to post my goods and bads with CICO as I work my way into the best shape of my life so others can learn from my experience. As someone who has had gout, and weighed 284.6 at my peak, I feel like my experience may have something to offer to someone like you. 
I am no longer looking at low carb. 

I feel like you guys are just arguing against keto just because you don't like it and haven't taken the time to actually read what I have written.

To summarize: I did a low carb, doctor supervised diet and lost a lot of weight. Kidney stones/gout/pandemic/no gym screwed me up. I tried to do a low carb but altered and still having gout flare ups so I am dropping low carb altogether and looking at CICO/ portion control. 

Now stop with the preaching the gospel of the crusade against keto/low carb. Thanks

 
I am no longer looking at low carb. 

I feel like you guys are just arguing against keto just because you don't like it and haven't taken the time to actually read what I have written.

To summarize: I did a low carb, doctor supervised diet and lost a lot of weight. Kidney stones/gout/pandemic/no gym screwed me up. I tried to do a low carb but altered and still having gout flare ups so I am dropping low carb altogether and looking at CICO/ portion control. 

Now stop with the preaching the gospel of the crusade against keto/low carb. Thanks
Generally, slow and incremental changes is the pathway to sustained success. But the key word is 'generally.' Ultimately, each person's path to sustained success must best fit their own SWOT analysis. What is working with and against you isn't the same as what is working with and against anyone else. I think that is what is so frustrating to those attempting to attain good health.  Each individual must make their health a priority, figure out how their optimal approach, and execute. There is not a one-size-fits-all path; it's their own unique journey.

 
I am no longer looking at low carb. 

I feel like you guys are just arguing against keto just because you don't like it and haven't taken the time to actually read what I have written.

To summarize: I did a low carb, doctor supervised diet and lost a lot of weight. Kidney stones/gout/pandemic/no gym screwed me up. I tried to do a low carb but altered and still having gout flare ups so I am dropping low carb altogether and looking at CICO/ portion control. 

Now stop with the preaching the gospel of the crusade against keto/low carb. Thanks
As a gout sufferer who struggled with weight loss, tried keto, had problems maintaining my exercise habits, and been down a similar path to what you're describing, I really wanted to encourage you to talk to your doctor and choose the right path for you, and if it was keto, cool, but if it was the same as mine, I wanted to help.

But honestly if my efforts are met with "stop preaching, thanks", then you can go #### yourself and I'd rather you find a different thread to post in. If that's not what you meant then I encourage clarity. I can find better uses of my time than offering free but unwanted advice to people who ##### about it 

 
I am no longer looking at low carb. 

I feel like you guys are just arguing against keto just because you don't like it and haven't taken the time to actually read what I have written.

To summarize: I did a low carb, doctor supervised diet and lost a lot of weight. Kidney stones/gout/pandemic/no gym screwed me up. I tried to do a low carb but altered and still having gout flare ups so I am dropping low carb altogether and looking at CICO/ portion control. 

Now stop with the preaching the gospel of the crusade against keto/low carb. Thanks
People are in here sharing their personal experiences Chad.  That’s it.  If some folks have an amazing keto experience to share - cool.  Others have different experiences to share - also cool.

Everyone has been supporting each other and wishing the best for others.  That’s the whole goal in here, at least from what I’ve seen.   I want you to be healthy man.   Truly.  

 
As a gout sufferer who struggled with weight loss, tried keto, had problems maintaining my exercise habits, and been down a similar path to what you're describing, I really wanted to encourage you to talk to your doctor and choose the right path for you, and if it was keto, cool, but if it was the same as mine, I wanted to help.

But honestly if my efforts are met with "stop preaching, thanks", then you can go #### yourself and I'd rather you find a different thread to post in. If that's not what you meant then I encourage clarity. I can find better uses of my time than offering free but unwanted advice to people who ##### about it 
What I meant is you and Terminalxylem don't seem to read what the hell I am writing and respond based on whatever agenda it seems you have. 

Or perhaps I am failing in communicating but I don't know how to say that I am not doing low carb or keto now in any other way. 

No, problem though, I will not be in this thread because it is damn frustrating having to say the same thing over and over and getting responses continuously condemning something I am not even freaking doing. 

Good luck to you and all others in their journey to better health. I will continue to work on my own journey outside of this thread.

 
What I meant is you and Terminalxylem don't seem to read what the hell I am writing and respond based on whatever agenda it seems you have. 

Or perhaps I am failing in communicating but I don't know how to say that I am not doing low carb or keto now in any other way. 

No, problem though, I will not be in this thread because it is damn frustrating having to say the same thing over and over and getting responses continuously condemning something I am not even freaking doing. 

Good luck to you and all others in their journey to better health. I will continue to work on my own journey outside of this thread.
I know that you're pushing 3 bills plus, have "undiagnosed" gout but had a "medically supervised" weight loss program that was low carb/keto, lost 70 lbs and failed in maintenance. 

Culdeus, TX, smails and I had a separate conversation about dieting approaches, where Culdeus explained his preferred approach which is almost the exact opposite of mine, Smails explained his approach which is low carb/"lazy keto" for life, and TX prefers a pescatarian diet with lots of plant based protein.  And yes, TX and I are generally opposed to low carb diets.  But that's not about you, although it certainly is a conversation I would have been interested in at the start of my journey.

Two things that are very much specific to you - 1) you should talk to your doctor about your "undiagnosed" gout because they should diagnose it and it impacts your nutrition, and any medically supervised diet needed that information, and 2) it was predictable that you failed at maintenance, not because of the pandemic or access to a gym but because you didn't learn how to do it.  Your medically supervised diet and your post diet plan were completely different by your own description.  You went from low carb/keto to healthy eating in maintenance.  That is, in my amateur opinion, very likely to fail because you didn't practice the "healthy eating" to lose the weight, and you obviously didn't practice it when you gained the weight, so you just finished your medically supervised diet and tried this new thing for maintenance and expected it to work. 

It doesn't work like that.  Eating well is a lifelong habit that takes time to learn. It's easy to choose the right foods when you are feeling motivated, it's hard to navigate the days you don't feel motivated, handle temptations for foods when someone goes to chick fil a and asks if you want anything, noticing that your favorite restaurant's fish and chips has almost four times as many calories as the shrimp and scallops in buttered bread crumbs, dealing with adversity like not being able to exercise the way you want to...there are a lot of things that you never practiced and when you finished your "medically supervised diet" you were not equipped to deal with them. 

I put medically supervised in quotes because it is your phrase for what you did and normally those words lend it credibility.  But in your case, your medical supervision apparently either didn't know about your gout/kidney stones, or knew you had reported them but wasn't able to confirm them, and still recommended a diet which you now think is not compatible with gout/kidney stones, then when you finished your weight loss, didn't help you with maintenance. That doesn't sound like the best medical supervision to me. 

I believe in CICO but not just for weight loss, it's a whole life approach to both lose and maintain the weight and gradually improve your health and nutrition.  I post a lot about it and often repeat myself because there are important lessons, some of which seem obvious in theory but aren't in practice.  

Other people have success with weight watchers because they go to meetings on the way down and keep going to meetings while they're in maintenance mode. This thread has been a place where people who have already hit their target weight have stayed to discuss things including difficulty maintaining. You aren't the only one here who has lost a lot, given it back, and tried to lose more again. 

This place is awesome if you can be positive and helpful and learn from each other.  I track sodium specifically because of these discussions, and it's helped my blood pressure (not this week though).  I've talked to people who never got heavy like I did, and hearing their thoughts helped me on more than one occasion to realize that I had a fat guy mentality on something and made me stop and figure out what it is. 

I try to share my thoughts and approach because it's an amalgam of all that stuff and maybe I can help someone who hasn't been through it yet.  I don’t come here for an internet argument about what Chad should do or have any anti keto agenda, I put in a lot of time and effort to share this with friends I've known here for 20 plus years in some cases, many of whom are not comfortable sharing their current weight, or don't know how to start, and are in their 40s and 50s and 60s so it's literally life and death.  It was for me.  My brother died of colon cancer at my age and my dad had a quadruple bypass when he was only a few years older.  I'm not doing this just to look sexy.  

If you want to be a part of a positive weight loss community with people who know you and are rooting for you then you are welcome here.  If you're going to complain that we're preaching and get frustrated with people for trying to help then maybe another place would be better.  R/loseit on reddit is a great community that is a lot more anonymous.  Whatever you choose, good luck.

 
I know that you're pushing 3 bills plus, have "undiagnosed" gout but had a "medically supervised" weight loss program that was low carb/keto, lost 70 lbs and failed in maintenance. 

Culdeus, TX, smails and I had a separate conversation about dieting approaches, where Culdeus explained his preferred approach which is almost the exact opposite of mine, Smails explained his approach which is low carb/"lazy keto" for life, and TX prefers a pescatarian diet with lots of plant based protein.  And yes, TX and I are generally opposed to low carb diets.  But that's not about you, although it certainly is a conversation I would have been interested in at the start of my journey.

Two things that are very much specific to you - 1) you should talk to your doctor about your "undiagnosed" gout because they should diagnose it and it impacts your nutrition, and any medically supervised diet needed that information, and 2) it was predictable that you failed at maintenance, not because of the pandemic or access to a gym but because you didn't learn how to do it.  Your medically supervised diet and your post diet plan were completely different by your own description.  You went from low carb/keto to healthy eating in maintenance.  That is, in my amateur opinion, very likely to fail because you didn't practice the "healthy eating" to lose the weight, and you obviously didn't practice it when you gained the weight, so you just finished your medically supervised diet and tried this new thing for maintenance and expected it to work. 

It doesn't work like that.  Eating well is a lifelong habit that takes time to learn. It's easy to choose the right foods when you are feeling motivated, it's hard to navigate the days you don't feel motivated, handle temptations for foods when someone goes to chick fil a and asks if you want anything, noticing that your favorite restaurant's fish and chips has almost four times as many calories as the shrimp and scallops in buttered bread crumbs, dealing with adversity like not being able to exercise the way you want to...there are a lot of things that you never practiced and when you finished your "medically supervised diet" you were not equipped to deal with them. 

I put medically supervised in quotes because it is your phrase for what you did and normally those words lend it credibility.  But in your case, your medical supervision apparently either didn't know about your gout/kidney stones, or knew you had reported them but wasn't able to confirm them, and still recommended a diet which you now think is not compatible with gout/kidney stones, then when you finished your weight loss, didn't help you with maintenance. That doesn't sound like the best medical supervision to me. 

I believe in CICO but not just for weight loss, it's a whole life approach to both lose and maintain the weight and gradually improve your health and nutrition.  I post a lot about it and often repeat myself because there are important lessons, some of which seem obvious in theory but aren't in practice.  

Other people have success with weight watchers because they go to meetings on the way down and keep going to meetings while they're in maintenance mode. This thread has been a place where people who have already hit their target weight have stayed to discuss things including difficulty maintaining. You aren't the only one here who has lost a lot, given it back, and tried to lose more again. 

This place is awesome if you can be positive and helpful and learn from each other.  I track sodium specifically because of these discussions, and it's helped my blood pressure (not this week though).  I've talked to people who never got heavy like I did, and hearing their thoughts helped me on more than one occasion to realize that I had a fat guy mentality on something and made me stop and figure out what it is. 

I try to share my thoughts and approach because it's an amalgam of all that stuff and maybe I can help someone who hasn't been through it yet.  I don’t come here for an internet argument about what Chad should do or have any anti keto agenda, I put in a lot of time and effort to share this with friends I've known here for 20 plus years in some cases, many of whom are not comfortable sharing their current weight, or don't know how to start, and are in their 40s and 50s and 60s so it's literally life and death.  It was for me.  My brother died of colon cancer at my age and my dad had a quadruple bypass when he was only a few years older.  I'm not doing this just to look sexy.  

If you want to be a part of a positive weight loss community with people who know you and are rooting for you then you are welcome here.  If you're going to complain that we're preaching and get frustrated with people for trying to help then maybe another place would be better.  R/loseit on reddit is a great community that is a lot more anonymous.  Whatever you choose, good luck.
Didn't read much.  Good luck. 

 
114g protein

54g fiber

3034mg sodium which is high but better than the last two days

Sodium was good until I had a big escalation at work that only I could solve.  Had to rush when I had a chance to eat, and just put a bunch of deli turkey on a carb balance tortilla (hence the high fiber, but I had a bunch of good fiber too).  

Stayed under calories too and was thinking about hitting the treadmill or yoga mat but I'm cooked and still have stuff to do tonight before I go to bed so I'm going to take a rest day from running and probably borrow some calories for a nightcap.

 
Dinner was lettuce wrap turkey tacos.  Found this phenomenal taco seasoning at Costco.  Add Cholula, avocado, tomato and a little cheese.  So good, so satisfying.  Getting back in the groove.  Haven't had a drink this week.  Give me some runway for this weekend.  2 long walks with the dog so over 12K steps.  Been super busy at work - will get in some workouts this weekend before pool time.

 
Eating out is a pain. Got together with my mom at that bastion of chain restaurants, Applebees. Mainly because it was the only place I was reasonably confident that she could find.

She was going to get a steak, so when I thought about a salad, she responded negatively. 

I opted for the Applebees Bourbon Street Chicken and Shrimp, a fancy name for an uninspiring meal.

I've been eating mighty clean the past 8 weeks and what blew me away was how salty everything was. 2650 mg of sodium in the entree and they somehow crammed 200 mg more into the steamed broccoli. I probably got out for 1K-1100 calories, but it was one of the poorest uses of my eating window that I've had since I started to focus on my diet. 

Work has been hectic the past couple weeks and my boss told me to take my wife out to eat and expense it back. Little does he know that I'm flying down to Long Island for the weekend. Not sure I can convince her to go into NYC, but I need something to wipe away the bastardized besmirchment of Bourbon St.

 
Creeping up, not surprisingly.  It turns out I enjoy eating :)  188.4.  Still have the guard rail set at 190 and have made small cutbacks.  I'm taking so much ibuprofen it is ridiculous.  Talked with the surgeon and he said I'm right on track but emphasized there is still a lot of inflammation and to keep taking the ibuprofen.  Probably another 8 weeks to full range of motion (and pain free).  If I could sleep through the night I'd be doing a lot better.

Keep up the good work in here! I hate to a flare up but understand it happens, particularly when one person may be at a low point.  I think the bottom line, as many of you said, is to find something that works for you and how successful you can be in executing it in your lifestyle.

Oh btw, my "corps" have been amazing since adding more to the diet :)

 
Just to be clear, I'm not a keto advocate.  My philosophy on carbs hasn't changed much. It's simply

--> Limit carbs to likely 100g a day.  (somewhere at 1/2 your lb. bodyweight in g carbs +/-)

--> Where carbs are eaten ensure they come with some fiber

I feel like for the vast number of people following that guideline alone will promote weight loss no matter what else you do.  Mainly because it is so hard to overeat the other macros, and hard to overeat carbs where fiber is along for the ride.  
The problem has never been fruit and vegetables.  If people were filling up on fruit and veggies to begin with they would have never got fat - like me.  The issue is most of our carb intake is processed carbs and frequently adictive processed carbs.  I think carb intake for weigh loss vs. maintenance should be looked at differently.

ETA - my post wasn't only tangentially directed at you - just decided to respond to your post.

 
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I think the easiest reduction to facilitate weight loss is caloric, when one shifts from the SAD to just about anything not laden with heavily processed stuff. While proteins and fat are great at promoting satiety, if one focusses on upping fruit and veggie intake (rather than limiting carbohydrates), it’s hard to overeat IMO.

Lastly, it’s impossible to accomplish sustained weight loss without addressing  one’s lifestyle, as behavioral psychology is arguably more important than  macronutrient intake in promoting obesity.
Taking these two paragraphs together is why I've always found that I gravitate toward low carb to lose weight.  The behavorial psychology aspect has never allowed me to just do CICO with much success.  47 years has conditioned me unfortunately in two ways - 1. I'm lazy, I've always found eating low carb easy and 2. Reward/food enjoyment.  Taking those two things in to account I end us always doing better when I eat low carb to lose.  I would prefer to eat balanced but I've just never had success with it - I don't have the willpower (or whatever you want to call it) to do it.

What I do know is that I have to be healthier at 180 with good blood work, BP, etc. than 240 with horrible blood work, BP, etc.  Granted all of that is a ME problem but unfortunately nobody can do this for me.  I'm actually hoping that fasting/IF will allow me to come off low carb.  I've started adding some fruit, yogurt and nuts while still not eating any bread, rice, potatoes.  I was always eating some veggies but not enough.

 
Ketosis promotes rapid weight loss - better than many, if not most other diets. And it improves many short-term health metrics.

My argument is it’s not sustainable, nor the healthiest way to lose weight. For the few who remain on carbohydrate restriction long term, I’d expect other health problems to crop up. What I don’t know is if these problems outweigh the benefits achieved from losing weight. There’ve been some studies looking at overall mortality based on carbohydrate intake and the source of non-carbohydrate calories, and the results seem to support my gestalt:

I know I have an uphill battle convincing Keto people to look past the scale, but IMO you’re much better off taking a slow-and-steady, non-carbohydrate restricted path featuring increased plants at the expense of animal products.
Your post here I think ignores your other post about the psychology.  Sure, I won't argue that higher protein/higher fat/low carb isn't as ideal to more balanced with healthy carbs but there's a huge tradeoff there and there's many that can't stick to it.

I think you are absolutely right that Keto isn't long-term sustainable for most people.

 
https://www.runnersworld.com/news/amp36866397/intermittent-fasting-for-weight-loss-study/

Intermittent fasting, not surprisingly, leads to more efficient weight loss but can involve more muscle loss than fat if you don't work out, get enough protein, etc

It turns out that a lot of these diets are just variations on CICO.  Ketosis is more efficient but only when you're really low carb, and you still need to stay below calories. Fasting triggers a hormone response but also requires good diet and exercise habits.  Vegan diets are great if you can get enough protein, but it's hard, and you still have to watch things like iron. 

CICO is boring but time tested and gamifying it changed my life. 
I think I argued about this with someone years ago - I do feel Keto, in practice for me, is a subset of CICO because when I eat this way I don't have cravings and I don't get hungry between meals as much.  I'm able to not snack and avoid problem foods - also, the protein I'm typically eating is filling while not being huge amounts of calories.

I think I'm done Hippling.

 
I don't think anyone particularly cares, but I've hit a 2 year weight low and I've hit 2 year maxes in some key lifts.  I feel really good, and have gotten to a point where everything is clicking.  I have a few nagging shoulder issues that I picked up 20 year ago and never shook them off which are now getting worse, but I'm ####### old and that just happens.  I've found ways to get around those and make progress with the help of a PT, which was a struggle in the prior 2yrs.

I'm getting a lot more plant protein, plants in general, and a lot less booze.  I don't really see the need to get into the bulk/cut cycle anymore.  I'm going to focus on keeping or making strength gains while staying in a tighter weight range.  

My poops are fantastic.  And my ### is chiseled.  

 
Taking these two paragraphs together is why I've always found that I gravitate toward low carb to lose weight.  The behavorial psychology aspect has never allowed me to just do CICO with much success.  47 years has conditioned me unfortunately in two ways - 1. I'm lazy, I've always found eating low carb easy and 2. Reward/food enjoyment.  Taking those two things in to account I end us always doing better when I eat low carb to lose.  I would prefer to eat balanced but I've just never had success with it - I don't have the willpower (or whatever you want to call it) to do it.

What I do know is that I have to be healthier at 180 with good blood work, BP, etc. than 240 with horrible blood work, BP, etc.  Granted all of that is a ME problem but unfortunately nobody can do this for me.  I'm actually hoping that fasting/IF will allow me to come off low carb.  I've started adding some fruit, yogurt and nuts while still not eating any bread, rice, potatoes.  I was always eating some veggies but not enough.
My main point, before things went off the rails and we chased off Chadstroma, was low carbohydrate diets (keto or not) aren't all sunshine and  rainbows. There is potential for both short and long term health problems despite the standard "numbers" (weight, BP, cholesterol, glycemic control) responding well. Secondarily, I was trying to encourage people not to lump healthy carbohydrates with sugary, processed cr@p. For some, the pendulum has swung so far that nutrient dense carbs are being limited in favor of extra fat and protein. Long lived populations don't eat that way.

I also question the logic of losing weight with a diet that isn't sustainable, and doesn't gradually adapt your palate to healthy foods. While people can certainly be lazy and enjoy eating familiar meals, they're also possibly impatient and closed-minded, wanting a quick fix that doesn't involve a dietary paradigm shift. Nearly every adult has developed "acquired tastes" for coffee/beer/liquor, yet they're suddenly unable to gradually adapt to eating less meat and more vegetables? I have a hard time accepting that.

For me at least, the transition away from animal products wasn't all that difficult, and I was raised on a standard meat-and-potatoes, soft drinks, fast food and microwavable diet, like most kids of the 80's/90's. I'm not advocating everyone go vegan by any means, just work on substituting more healthy for less healthy foods, coupled with portion control and regular exercise. But if your ultimate goal is something like a Mediterranean diet, why not work on that from the get-go?

All that being said, we're all individuals, and diets aren't one-size-fits-all. I'd much rather someone lose weight and keep it off, by just about any means possible. If that's keto + IF for you, CICO for Fred and the Ornish diet for somebody else, great. But we know most diets fail, and I believe a slow, steady approach focused of healthy foods, rather than macronutrients, is a better long term strategy.  The alternatives, yo-yoing, remaining obese or resorting to bariatric surgery are far less palatable.

 
It is great to pop in here occasionally and see folks are still having success with their weight loss/healthy Irving journeys.  This thread also shows that we are all made differently.   Some people like keto and it really works for them.  Others hate it and don’t think it is healthy or sustainable.   Others believe in exercise   Others believe in balanced diets   Lots of roads to Rome.  

Each of us has to choose the weight loss program that makes sense to us.   That could be a simple program of walking 30 minutes every day to seeing a nutritionist and/or physician.   

Im holding at 194 and am still on the horse show healthy living program.  I am active as hell 3-4 days every week and don’t have time to over eat.  I hit the weights 2 or 3 days and am still free of booze too.   Not sure how long that has been.  3 months?   

Keep up the great work. 

 
-Cut as much sugar out of your diet as you can possibly stand. I promise it is killing your work when you aren't looking. It's in almost everything and I do refer to sugar as the cocaine of the food world. The more you eat sugar the more you want and the vicious cycle continues. 

Try to stay under 20g of sugar a day and less if you can tolerate it. 

-Ways to counter the sugar and will work wonders for you and HAS SUGAR in them already...FRUIT!!! And I buy strawberries and blueberries, like to make an evening smoothie on hot days when I don't want a heavy meal at dinner time. Eat fruit until you #### rainbows and you can shake it up. I love me some organic grapes to scarf down and I eat a banana almost every day at some point. 

-Drink half your weight in ounces of water. Weigh 250? Try 120 ounces of water spread out over the day. I preach water and we have 5 gallon glass drums delivered that weigh 40 lbs each from Mountain Valley and I'll tell you it isn't cheap but it has done so much for me that I would not let cost stand in your way here, you'll save a lot on food and also your health will improve a lot. 

Another thing we keep handy are these water bottles by Takeya and unbelievable they are having a BOGO, we own 6 of these at least. If you had he water we have delivered you would be filling these up every time you leave the house. 

Water makes you feel full it's true, drink more water eat less food. Water has no calories and I'll repeat water has no calories. 

2 different things you can do immediately and see big changes without overhauling the whole thing. Drink more water eat less sugar, work in a couple walks and you're gold. 

 
 I would prefer to eat balanced but I've just never had success with it - I don't have the willpower (or whatever you want to call it) to do it.


I think you are absolutely right that Keto isn't long-term sustainable for most people.


I think I argued about this with someone years ago - I do feel Keto, in practice for me, is a subset of CICO because when I eat this way I don't have cravings and I don't get hungry between meals as much.  I'm able to not snack and avoid problem foods - also, the protein I'm typically eating is filling while not being huge amounts of calories.


 I'm actually hoping that fasting/IF will allow me to come off low carb.  I've started adding some fruit, yogurt and nuts while still not eating any bread, rice, potatoes.  I was always eating some veggies but not enough.
Good posts and it illustrates what I'm talking about with low carb/keto vs CICO.  Really a lot of diets.  Eating less is the best way to lose weight and a lot of these diets- Keto, One Meal A Day (OMAD), intermittent fasting (IF), even vegan and pescatarian diets end up being fancy ways to avoid eating as much. 

Your comments about not having the willpower to do balanced eating but also keto being a subset of CICO for you because you don't eat as much are dead on.  You used the Keto foods to control calories more than you used ketosis specifically to burn fat faster.  

I see @Terminalxylemsuggesting Mediterranean or pescatarian diets and @Ministry of Painsuggesting cutting out almost all sugar and @culdeussuggesting that you just cut calories and also exercise for the love of exercise but don't give yourself any extra calories and I totally get why all of those things are good... but they're not something that a fat guy can just suddenly wake up and do. At least, not most of us. 

And on the other side of that coin, I hear other people say they lost weight doing low carb or some medically supervised diet or fasting/eating one meal a day, and then they talk about how they either put the weight back on or had to keep doing the diet that got them there because they just don't have the willpower.  

It's not willpower.  It's learning how to do it. 

Your point about your high protein foods keeping you fuller longer is exactly right.  Good news - high fiber foods do that too, and a lot of them are really delicious.  Raspberries and blackberries have a ton of fiber, help fill you up and they taste so good especially when you're not eating tons of sugar.  Strawberries, blueberries, kiwi, pineapple, grapes, grapefruit are all loaded with good stuff, too.

Try adding some of those back to your diet. You can have a ton of fruit for a couple hundred calories, and it will help fill you up.  Put the berries on some greek yogurt or make a smoothie or just eat fruit salad or grill the pineapple, maybe wrap some prosciutto around it. Or eat a piece of grapefruit for breakfast. If you aren't excited to eat grapefruit then don't buy grapefruit.  Or try one and see if your tastes have changed.  Fruits taste good so it's a pretty easy habit to add back.

Then add in potatoes and bananas.  They both have a little fiber but also give you a ton of potassium that you're almost certainly not getting right now.  Potatoes get a bad rap these days especially from keto nerds but they're awesome in moderation especially when you aren't deep frying them. Try cooking/steaming a potato in the microwave, letting it cook for a few minutes or hours even, then cutting it into fries and grilling the fries so they get a little char.  So good.  No oil needed. Do the same thing with a sweet potato. Or buy a container of them from the Little Potato Company or similar and make a ton of them. If you want to get fancy, cut up some onions and peppers and cook them together. Instead of having two burgers with no bun have one burger with grilled "fries" as you add back carbs.

Personally I would recommend counting calories while you do this.  But you don't have to track every calorie every day like I do because you aren't trying to lose weight right now. Just get used to what your maintenance calories look like, and how many calories are in things you usually eat so you can start to get a sense of how good or bad something is when you're about to eat it. 

Like if you go to chick fil a and you want to order a number one... it says the sandwich is 440 calories and the box of fries is 400 more. Is 400 a lot?  Is 840 total a lot?  If someone your age/height/weight/activity level can normally eat 2000 calories a day then you could have a decent breakfast and eat a sandwich and fries for lunch and again for dinner and not go over for the day. 

What about that entree at my favorite restaurant?  1500 calories?  Oh crap, that's almost my whole day.  Maybe I should plan ahead and "save room for dinner".  Or go for a long run.  Or only eat half and take the other half home.  Some of those places you can easily get 3000 or more calories with their sides and they're trying to upsell you appetizers and alcohol.  And that's probably fine once in a rare while. Just get used to the numbers and understanding how that stuff all works. 

Losing weight was a goal.  You used keto for that goal and did awesome.  Maintaining your weight is a goal.  You've been using keto for that goal too and it's not as awesome. Getting good nutrition is a goal.  Especially at our age.  And keto blows for that, even if you're taking multivitamins. Enjoying all kinds of food is a goal. It's cool to be able to eat with your non keto friends or cook something that everyone likes or order that favorite comfort food at a restaurant. Invest some time in learning how that stuff works.  

 
95g protein 

34g fiber

3034mg sodium

I went over calories again yesterday but stayed under maintenance.  Didn't run, didn't eat anything too wild, didn’t drink, just decided to have some soup at panera even though I didn't have the calories left.  That's usually a bad sign that I'm losing momentum because I had a cheat day recently.  Still on track to hit my goal in October which makes it harder to push myself back into being good. 

If people think that I'm just this machine with awesome willpower, I'm definitely definitely not. I just use things I've learned to get back at it.  I wanted breakfast this morning but decided to wait a little bit, I'm not that hungry and I know I've been struggling the last two days so I'll wait a little longer for my first meal while my morning willpower is good and leave my calories for later when it sucks. 

 
95g protein 

34g fiber

3034mg sodium

I went over calories again yesterday but stayed under maintenance.  Didn't run, didn't eat anything too wild, didn’t drink, just decided to have some soup at panera even though I didn't have the calories left.  That's usually a bad sign that I'm losing momentum because I had a cheat day recently.  Still on track to hit my goal in October which makes it harder to push myself back into being good. 

If people think that I'm just this machine with awesome willpower, I'm definitely definitely not. I just use things I've learned to get back at it.  I wanted breakfast this morning but decided to wait a little bit, I'm not that hungry and I know I've been struggling the last two days so I'll wait a little longer for my first meal while my morning willpower is good and leave my calories for later when it sucks. 
Good that you can recognize all of this.  Then you can make an educated choice.

I’m up in northern WI at a lake cabin for the weekend.   Have already decided that I’m going to track calories, but basically only so that I know the damage being done.  I’m trying to mostly eat healthier food, but will also eat junk too.  Like chips and guac, ice cream, donuts, Cheetos.  But because I’m tracking calories, I’ll probably eat less junk than otherwise, so the damage will be modest compared to a normal “blow out” weekend.

 
-1! Down to 193! Did not think that would happen the same week I ate at restaurants so much. 
 

ETA: unless it was the hair?
Good job!!   Steady progress is a good thing.   In my experience, it has at times been random fluctuation when I lose weight without knowing why......but it’s also better than the alternative where I gain weight but don’t know why.

Stick to your plan and keep it going.  

 
118g protein 

23g fiber 

2437mg sodium

Did my long run today, earned some wine and ate some good food without killing my numbers for the day.  No ragrets.  

 
bostonfred said:
Good posts and it illustrates what I'm talking about with low carb/keto vs CICO.  Really a lot of diets.  Eating less is the best way to lose weight and a lot of these diets- Keto, One Meal A Day (OMAD), intermittent fasting (IF), even vegan and pescatarian diets end up being fancy ways to avoid eating as much. 

Your comments about not having the willpower to do balanced eating but also keto being a subset of CICO for you because you don't eat as much are dead on.  You used the Keto foods to control calories more than you used ketosis specifically to burn fat faster.  

I see @Terminalxylemsuggesting Mediterranean or pescatarian diets and @Ministry of Painsuggesting cutting out almost all sugar and @culdeussuggesting that you just cut calories and also exercise for the love of exercise but don't give yourself any extra calories and I totally get why all of those things are good... but they're not something that a fat guy can just suddenly wake up and do. At least, not most of us. 

And on the other side of that coin, I hear other people say they lost weight doing low carb or some medically supervised diet or fasting/eating one meal a day, and then they talk about how they either put the weight back on or had to keep doing the diet that got them there because they just don't have the willpower.  

It's not willpower.  It's learning how to do it. 

Your point about your high protein foods keeping you fuller longer is exactly right.  Good news - high fiber foods do that too, and a lot of them are really delicious.  Raspberries and blackberries have a ton of fiber, help fill you up and they taste so good especially when you're not eating tons of sugar.  Strawberries, blueberries, kiwi, pineapple, grapes, grapefruit are all loaded with good stuff, too.

Try adding some of those back to your diet. You can have a ton of fruit for a couple hundred calories, and it will help fill you up.  Put the berries on some greek yogurt or make a smoothie or just eat fruit salad or grill the pineapple, maybe wrap some prosciutto around it. Or eat a piece of grapefruit for breakfast. If you aren't excited to eat grapefruit then don't buy grapefruit.  Or try one and see if your tastes have changed.  Fruits taste good so it's a pretty easy habit to add back.

Then add in potatoes and bananas.  They both have a little fiber but also give you a ton of potassium that you're almost certainly not getting right now.  Potatoes get a bad rap these days especially from keto nerds but they're awesome in moderation especially when you aren't deep frying them. Try cooking/steaming a potato in the microwave, letting it cook for a few minutes or hours even, then cutting it into fries and grilling the fries so they get a little char.  So good.  No oil needed. Do the same thing with a sweet potato. Or buy a container of them from the Little Potato Company or similar and make a ton of them. If you want to get fancy, cut up some onions and peppers and cook them together. Instead of having two burgers with no bun have one burger with grilled "fries" as you add back carbs.

Personally I would recommend counting calories while you do this.  But you don't have to track every calorie every day like I do because you aren't trying to lose weight right now. Just get used to what your maintenance calories look like, and how many calories are in things you usually eat so you can start to get a sense of how good or bad something is when you're about to eat it. 

Like if you go to chick fil a and you want to order a number one... it says the sandwich is 440 calories and the box of fries is 400 more. Is 400 a lot?  Is 840 total a lot?  If someone your age/height/weight/activity level can normally eat 2000 calories a day then you could have a decent breakfast and eat a sandwich and fries for lunch and again for dinner and not go over for the day. 

What about that entree at my favorite restaurant?  1500 calories?  Oh crap, that's almost my whole day.  Maybe I should plan ahead and "save room for dinner".  Or go for a long run.  Or only eat half and take the other half home.  Some of those places you can easily get 3000 or more calories with their sides and they're trying to upsell you appetizers and alcohol.  And that's probably fine once in a rare while. Just get used to the numbers and understanding how that stuff all works. 

Losing weight was a goal.  You used keto for that goal and did awesome.  Maintaining your weight is a goal.  You've been using keto for that goal too and it's not as awesome. Getting good nutrition is a goal.  Especially at our age.  And keto blows for that, even if you're taking multivitamins. Enjoying all kinds of food is a goal. It's cool to be able to eat with your non keto friends or cook something that everyone likes or order that favorite comfort food at a restaurant. Invest some time in learning how that stuff works.  
Great post - and yes, the ultimate goal in all of this is twofold - health and happiness.  I want to live a long time but in a body that allows me to do things but also I want/need to enjoy food and drink.  If you told me I could cut alcohol and be a vegan and live to 85 or be moderate with alcohol and animal protein and live to 80 I would choose the latter every time.  But there’s a lot of other factors in that health too - sleep, stress, exercise, sunlight, avoiding tobacco and illegal drugs, etc.  Overall at 47, I give myself a solid B.   :)
 

Oh - and I doubt I will ever count calories again.  I hated it and found it too much guess unless you wanted to be super detailed - and as I said before, I’m lazy.

 
 I'm 46, haven't smoked or drank at all since covid started.  Never been much of either throughout my life. 

 On June 24th I went to the dr's to change my blood pressure pills.  Hydrochlorothazide put me in a fog and I had zero motivation or muscle strength.  My blood pressure has been way high throughout covid.  150-120 basically.  They switched my pills (4th try?), and I finally feel like a million bucks.  Passed an ekg with flying colors. 

 That same appointment my tests came back positive for Diabetes and cholesterol.   My weight was 318.  I have been over 300 for a few years now.  I'm about 6'2.  Even in high school when I was a runner I was 240ish.  

  Anyway those tests results scared the BeJesus outta me.  In the last ten days, I have eaten low carbs.  8 blueberries, an Activia, couple of nuts, and white fish, grilled chicken and greens for dinner. That's all. Maybe a bite of cottege cheese or a cheese stick a few days.  Black coldbrew coffee also.  From basically 8pm until 10pm the next morning I fast.  Been busy so no exercise over the ten days.  When I weighed in yesterday morning a few times after I ate, I was average 296.  22 pounds down in ten days.  Yay!  I feel great.

I didn't read anything about or ever done any official diets before fwiw.  Flying by the seat of my pants.  Dropped a shirt size and the dots are piling up already!

No idea what my numbers are.  Going back in late August for follow up tests.

No cravings at all, and rarely hungry.  Just eat a bite when I feel my energy plummet.  That 12 hour fast I am consistent with.  Dr. said to try it.

 
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 I'm 46, haven't smoked or drank at all since covid started.  Never been much of either throughout my life. 

 On June 24th I went to the dr's to change my blood pressure pills.  Hydrochlorothazide put me in a fog and I had zero motivation or muscle strength.  My blood pressure has been way high throughout covid.  150-120 basically.  They switched my pills (4th try?), and I finally feel like a million bucks.  Passed an ekg with flying colors. 

 That same appointment my tests came back positive for Diabetes and cholesterol.   My weight was 318.  I have been over 300 for a few years now.  I'm about 6'2.  Even in high school when I was a runner I was 240ish.  

  Anyway those tests results scared the BeJesus outta me.  In the last ten days, I have eaten low carbs.  8 blueberries, an Activia, couple of nuts, and white fish, grilled chicken and greens for dinner. That's all. Maybe a bite of cottege cheese or a cheese stick a few days.  Black coldbrew coffee also.  From basically 8pm until 10pm the next morning I fast.  Been busy so no exercise over the ten days.  When I weighed in yesterday morning a few times after I ate, I was average 296.  22 pounds down in ten days.  Yay!  I feel great.

I didn't read anything about or ever done any official diets before fwiw.  Flying by the seat of my pants.  Dropped a shirt size and the dots are piling up already!

No idea what my numbers are.  Going back in late August for follow up tests.

No cravings at all, and rarely hungry.  Just eat a bite when I feel my energy plummet.  That 12 hour fast I am consistent with.  Dr. said to try it.
Since BF hasn’t posted yet, just wanted to share a few things:

1) congrats on committing to make a life change!   
2) glad that you are seeing progress already!

3) 22 lbs in 10 days is.....scary fast weight loss.  I’m not a doctor, nor will I pretend to be one.  But I would highly recommend you speak to a medical professional about your plan, including the rapid pace of loss in 10 days.   It could be very dangerous to lose weight that fast.

4) if you want to lose and keep off weight in a supportive environment with people who can share their own experience, this thread is a great resource

5) good luck!!!

 
Great post - and yes, the ultimate goal in all of this is twofold - health and happiness.  I want to live a long time but in a body that allows me to do things but also I want/need to enjoy food and drink.  If you told me I could cut alcohol and be a vegan and live to 85 or be moderate with alcohol and animal protein and live to 80 I would choose the latter every time.  But there’s a lot of other factors in that health too - sleep, stress, exercise, sunlight, avoiding tobacco and illegal drugs, etc.  Overall at 47, I give myself a solid B.   :)
 

Oh - and I doubt I will ever count calories again.  I hated it and found it too much guess unless you wanted to be super detailed - and as I said before, I’m lazy.
I agree with your sentiment, in theory at least.

In practice, the average Joe is pretty terrible with moderation (as evidenced by the % overweight, obese, hypertensive, diabetic, abuse alcohol...)

And I’ve never met an 80 year old on their death bed who’d trade 5 years of decent health for extra steak. But it’s easy to donate that time when you’re not moribund.

Heck, nobody who’s dying has ever mentioned food or drink to me. Maybe it’s on their mind, but most look back fondly to the time spent with family and friends (admittedly, that’s often centered about meals).

Agree that counting calories, macronutrients, steps, etc. sucks.

 
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Since BF hasn’t posted yet, just wanted to share a few things:

1) congrats on committing to make a life change!   
2) glad that you are seeing progress already!

3) 22 lbs in 10 days is.....scary fast weight loss.  I’m not a doctor, nor will I pretend to be one.  But I would highly recommend you speak to a medical professional about your plan, including the rapid pace of loss in 10 days.   It could be very dangerous to lose weight that fast.

4) if you want to lose and keep off weight in a supportive environment with people who can share their own experience, this thread is a great resource

5) good luck!!!
  I remembered I had a blood pressure machine, and I checked it tonight. 140/90.  That's the best it's been all year!  After I posted this, I had some hunger for the first time all week.  I think it was from being around people eating and drinking excessively on the holiday. 

  I had a moment of weakness (on purpose though) and ate a chicken sausage with no bun, a small piece of cheddar, and a vanilla yogurt.  I think it's ok though.  I have been doing well and my energy was a bit low today.  

  Back to my routine tomorrow.  At some point I'll introduce some weightlifting and bike riding into all this.  Maybe next week.  Thanks for the words.

 
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Keep doing what you’re doing in the quest to be healthy, all. Had a rough weekend. My Dad died in his 50’s. Way overweight. Smoker. Diabetes. Started having issues with his feet. Toes amputated, then leg below the knee. Lost his will to live. Fast forward and my brother just had his big toe amputated this weekend. Was diabetic, but much healthier now and #’s under control. Except damage had been done. No feeling in his feet. He of course started googling mortality stats and is scared out of his mind  

Diabetes sucks. Hope this thread helps people avoid it. 

 
Keep doing what you’re doing in the quest to be healthy, all. Had a rough weekend. My Dad died in his 50’s. Way overweight. Smoker. Diabetes. Started having issues with his feet. Toes amputated, then leg below the knee. Lost his will to live. Fast forward and my brother just had his big toe amputated this weekend. Was diabetic, but much healthier now and #’s under control. Except damage had been done. No feeling in his feet. He of course started googling mortality stats and is scared out of his mind  

Diabetes sucks. Hope this thread helps people avoid it. 
Ugh.   Very sorry to hear Judge Smails.   My MIL died of long term diabetes complications.  It’s brutal to witness.   Hope that your brother is able to slow the course and be as healthy as possible going forward.

 

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