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Can We Civilly Discuss Thoughts On Vaccination? A Poll. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
the rover
Footballguy
sure. the studies do show that vaccination plus having natural antibodies is better, but for him and those like him (young, healthy and with natural antibodies) making an informed decision to decline a vaccine seems fine.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Agreed "those like him", American citizens with the freedom to make their own medical decisions
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Don't need a convoluted solution. We just need to continue applying pressure and educate those with vaccine hesitancy.
TBH, we already appear to be turning the corner, in this country at least.
the rover
Footballguy
no. young healthy people who have had covid and are fully informed. "muh freedom" is a stupid reason not to get vaccinated
zoonation
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Against it. But this is the world we live in now. One word, one voice. Comply or be silenced
The Commish
Footballguy
I think we need to hamper misinformation as much as possible. I think disinformation should be removed completely without pause. I'm not sure where we went off the rails and blurred the line between fact and opinion, but they aren't equal and shouldn't be treated as such.
This new narrative of "everyone should be allowed to throw nonsense out there and let everyone decide what is right or wrong" has never made sense to me. This isn't because I am against people throwing nonsense out there. They can do what they want. But those same people are incapable of understanding that when they do that and their nonsense is correctly labeled as such, it's because it's nonsense. It's not because people are trying to silence the truth. It's the most circular argument I've seen in forever and there's no way out of it. They don't get that it's labeled nonsense because it's nonsense.
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Max Power
Footballguy
I'm not happy about it. I wish we had platforms where we could fight facts or claims with facts and claims instead of deleting what we don't agree with. There have been multiple times the "facts" have turned out to be inaccurate. It's scary really, they don't want people to think for themselves.
The Commish
Footballguy
We do....but youtube is NOT one of them neither is reddit or any other social media platform. To my knowledge that's never been their intention or mission. At best, youtube is a platform to disseminate information AFTER it's been "fought".
JAA
Footballguy
As a progressive, even I have a hard time with this.
However, at some point We The People need to make hard decisions about what we believe is in the best interest of the overall public. I personally am on the fence with vax mandates, but I am less worried about a private business choosing to limit content.
Max Power
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
This seems to be an argument along the lines of "who gets to decide what is misinformation versus fact". In this particular case, it seems obvious that YouTube gets to decide. It's their platform. Until recently, the idea that a private business gets to determine their own policies would have been a policy that conservatives agreed with and supported emphatically.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I agree with companies determining their own policy. When a media company censors "misinformation" based on its world view, it is potentially creating "misinformation" with it's censorship. That I have a problem with. People will move to other platforms if Youtube gets too far out of its lane though.
The Commish
Footballguy
My comment wasn't clear based on these responses. I'm saying at best, in an ideal world, youtube could hope to be that. And that comment is made in the context of Max's comment
We have those platforms. They aren't social media though. In my view, if you're going to social media for this type of thing, you're doing it wrong. Apologies for the poor wording.
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
The bolded seems to imply that there really isn't a problem here, then? You can disagree with YouTube's actions and move elsewhere, as can millions of others.
zoonation
Footballguy
Unfortunate that it has come to this. However, what is more unfortunate is that such a large percentage of the population is incapable of understanding or synthesizing the difference between fact and nonsense. And people are dying as a result. So, someone’s right to disseminate garbage online is trumped by public health and safety.
zoonation
Footballguy
People “thinking for themselves” is the core of the problem. In the age of social media, everyone thinks they are an expert on every topic. Not based on actually academically studying a subject matter, but by consuming information via social media.
The fact that laypeople argue with virologists and immunologists about covid and vaccine efficacy tells you everything you need to know about how bananas things have really gotten.
Max Power
Footballguy
Thinking for yourself is not a problem in any way. Yes, there are dumb people, but when they argue with an expert, the expert needs to argue their side and anyone watching should be able to tell which arguement holds more weight.
Censoring arguements and conflicting theories is dangerous and doesn't lead us to a future with a thoughtful exchange of ideas.
-fish-
Footballguy
Ideas like fake election fraud and taking horse dewormer as an alternate to a vaccine do not contribute to a thoughtful exchange of ideas. If they weren't protected by Section 230, allowing such nonsense to be posted would get those sites sued.
Max Power
Footballguy
Election fraud happened, to what extent is debatable. Ivermectin has health benefits and other countries are using Ivermectin as a treatment option. Your take that these ideas are so absurd they should be censored and removed from public consumption is the troubling part of this discussion.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
This is exactly the kind of thing we mean. You have zero evidence of this. None. Zip. Zilch. Literally not one iota of evidence that would hold up in court. Yet you proclaim it over and over again like it's fact.
the moops
Footballguy
And another here. The repetition of this as fact (it is not) has led to people buying this #### and poisoning themselves.
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Doug B
Footballguy
Real life US doctors have prescribed for treatment of covid. That's fact. Joe Rogan is one example.
Social media memes and such may have had some influence to people taking horse medication without guidance of a doctor, but, that's mostly just people being dumb.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Election fraud happens in every single election. That is now what is being discussed on these sites. They are talking about election-changing widespread election fraud. And everyone that is able to process data and information knows this is a lie.
zoonation
Footballguy
No. Sorry. You or I have no business arguing vaccines or covid with a virology expert. Or emergency medicine with an emergentologist (who we have on this board). Why? because we do not have even the most basic rudimentary understanding of the underlying science and medicine that informs such a topic, never mind the years of work that goes into becoming an expert on the subject.
You've just proved my point. Because you have read some stuff online on the topic, you think your opinion should be given weight in the community of virology science and ideas. It should not. at all. Our opinion on the subject has no weight and, in fact, the more we seek to be taken seriously on the subject, the bigger danger to public health we become.
Max Power
Footballguy
https://thetexan.news/active-election-fraud-prosecutions-at-an-all-time-high-texas-attorney-generals-office-testifies/
Active Election Fraud Prosecutions at an ‘All Time High,’ Texas Attorney General’s Office Testifies
-fish-
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
We treated the afghan evacuees with it. India got its delta variant largely under control due to the use of Ivermectin. South America is using it as a treatment option. People arent ODing on Ivermectin.
Max Power
Footballguy
I was literally just told there is not one iota of election fraud in the 2020 election.
The Football Freak
Footballguy
I was just about to post the same. Also, 155 successful prosecutions in the last 16 years. This is just not a real issue.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I'm sorry you have to be told what to think by everyone around you.
I never said my opinion should be weighted. I express it and we can discuss my opinion. The fact that my opinion on the matter bothers people so much should lead to some self reflection, but it doesn't.
Liberals wanting to censor free speech is a bigger threat to our way of life than covid.
Max Power
Footballguy
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
These are active cases. A little misleading. Do they give the number of actual cases of fraud and compare it with historicals.
Max Power
Footballguy
So is the point that we can only discuss election fraud to the point its proven in court?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
The Football Freak
Footballguy
Max, you seem like a good dude, and I thank you for your service, but your sources are greatly letting you down. You seem to be looking for information, but then you post stuff like this.
You don’t seem to be completely understanding the complex information you are trying to digest. That is completely normal, you aren’t a doctor or scientist, and this isn’t in your wheelhouse. However, you do yourself a disservice with this kind of post, and allowing your biases and preconceived notions to get in the way of becoming informed. People are taking the time to digest information for you, and help you grasp what is out there, but you need to be open-minded to what they are saying.
Trust but verify is fine, but trust, then verify from experts and vetted sources, would be my advice. Just my .02, so take it or leave it, but you are posting a lot of goofy stuff, man.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
Appreciate the kind words, but tell me, what did I actually get wrong in any of those statements?
-fish-
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
I don't need to be told what to think by everyone around me. that is not what I said. but i am smart enough to know that i not remotely qualified to have an independent informed view on the efficacy of vaccines. I must rely on the experts with respect to that subject matter.
zoonation
Footballguy
all medications/vaccines have potential side effects. Which is immaterial to their overall efficacy.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
If you want to accurately say "it happened" then yes, you would have to prove it in court first. That should be self-evident, should it not?
And let's be serious, Max. You've been harping on "stolen election" for damn close to a year now with nothing to show for it. You didn't mean 43 cases of people accidentally forgetting to put a stamp on their mail-in ballot and you know it.
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