Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Yeah SD at KC but KC won't need that game. Wish we could have beat one of them at home none the less.
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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I think KC has a better shot of beating SD than the Bills beating NE, but yeah, both are pretty slim.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Rivers has a bulging disk in his back. It's possible.flysack said:
I still don't think the Bills beat NE.
That loss to the Chiefs is just an absolute killer.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yes they do. KC has to win out to make it.Gottabesweet said:
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I think he's suggesting if they lose today, they will most likely have nothing to play for.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
GG. Better luck next year.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
:(
I know the playoffs were a longshot, but this is not how you wanna go out.
I know the playoffs were a longshot, but this is not how you wanna go out.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I can't even blame this on Marrone, as much as I would like to see him gone. Orton and the o-line turned in their worse game of the year against their weakest opponent. Nothing the coach can do about lack of talent.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I don't know... I think watching yet another key loss to the Patriots would actually be a lot worse.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
If you leave a statue in at QB, with a line that cant block....that is on the coach.
The last drive shows what can happen when the QB escapes the pocket....the bad Oline starts to matter less.
The last drive shows what can happen when the QB escapes the pocket....the bad Oline starts to matter less.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I know this kind of stuff is personal, but I sincerely don't agree. I was rooting against NE earlier today so that our week 17 game would be important for both teams. Belicheck and Brady are cheating mother####ers, but I wanted to make the playoffs by beating them when it mattered for them, not in a meaningless game. Honking a game to a pathetic 2-win squad is way worse than losing to a 13-win team.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I guess my hatred for them runs a little deeper. Sadly, losing to that team really bothers me. With nothing on the line, it won't be nearly as bad.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
To be clear though, this team has a SB-caliber defense. It isn't correct to pin it all on the QB position because our O-line was atrocious today, but this team shows serious promise despite the laughable ending.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Well that sucked
Ever Present Lurker
Footballguy
We'll get 'em next year (since 1999)!
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Except for the fact that the O-line is supposed to be his specialty. Marrone got several rookie O-lineman that had lots of talent and they were horrible.
And I'm sorry, but with how badly Orton has sucked for 2 months now, after that atrocious first half by Orton and the line, you HAVE to go to Manuel. At that point, Manuel couldn't possibly have been any worse.
And being down late midway through the 4th and punting on 4th and 1?
Throwing 2 yard passes down 2 scores late in the 4th?
The entire offense and the coaching staff are an embarrassment.
And as great ad the defense is, they have sucked for over a month against the run. They've been dominated in the run for a while now and it was costly.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't blame guys for taking any money they can get, but if Orton had any pride at all, he would decline his player option and re-retire.
All he had to do was be a slightly below average QB that accurately puts the ball into the hands of his playmakers. And he was a total failure.
The last 2 months have been absolute bottom of the barrel garbage from him. It just especially sucks because he hurt the team as much as Manuel did and at least Manuel offered a chance to develop and a chance to do stuff with his feet. I thought going to Orton was the right move at the time and it's hard to second guess the team, but it still sucks that he was as awful as he was.
All he had to do was be a slightly below average QB that accurately puts the ball into the hands of his playmakers. And he was a total failure.
The last 2 months have been absolute bottom of the barrel garbage from him. It just especially sucks because he hurt the team as much as Manuel did and at least Manuel offered a chance to develop and a chance to do stuff with his feet. I thought going to Orton was the right move at the time and it's hard to second guess the team, but it still sucks that he was as awful as he was.
lod01
Footballguy
Sadly what is on the bench is far worse. Yet another team that needs a franchise QB. It's an NFL epidemic right now.
flysack
Footballguy
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Ugh I was rooting for you guys to get in. :(
Bills_Fan11
Footballguy
Gotta admit I thought NeckBeard would be better too. Derek Carr looks better. I hate that this sport has become good QB or bust but since that's what it is, wake me up when they get one.
FUBAR
Footballguy
What happens next year in Buffalo? Do they go after a new QB in FA, draft a new hope, go back to Manuel or keep Orton?
What would you put the chances at of Manuel starting next year?
I'm asking mostly because I have Manuel and Orton in a 32 team league. Won't be keeping Orton as he'd cost $23,000 (almost 20% of the cap) as a franchise player which obviously isn't worth it. Could keep Manuel at $16,600 or could cut him with some roster management (complicated rules with a multiple year contract - in hindsight clearly a mistake). If there's a fair chance they go back to Manuel I probably keep him and cut other players who aren't worth their contracts; I can't cut others if I cut Manuel.
What would you put the chances at of Manuel starting next year?
I'm asking mostly because I have Manuel and Orton in a 32 team league. Won't be keeping Orton as he'd cost $23,000 (almost 20% of the cap) as a franchise player which obviously isn't worth it. Could keep Manuel at $16,600 or could cut him with some roster management (complicated rules with a multiple year contract - in hindsight clearly a mistake). If there's a fair chance they go back to Manuel I probably keep him and cut other players who aren't worth their contracts; I can't cut others if I cut Manuel.
It seems he's done a lot with a little and built the team back from garbage to respectaility in just couple of seasons. Give him an NFL caliber QB and they are a contender....
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Orton has been horrible the last couple of months. He does not have the arm to throw down the field and he is a statue in the pocket. He naturally checks down everything and targets guys 3 to 5 yards from the line of scrimmage. He has missed so many down field throws by miles while guys are so open. There have been times Watkins is college open and Orton can't hit him. It is painful to watch.
There is no way you can enter next year with Orton as the starter as you would be setting yourself up for failure.
There is no way you can enter next year with Orton as the starter as you would be setting yourself up for failure.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm sick of the idiotic game-day decisions, like constantly punting when they should clearly run a play on 4th down.
It seems he's done a lot with a little and built the team back from garbage to respectaility in just couple of seasons. Give him an NFL caliber QB and they are a contender....
Also, I'm not seeing his contribution to the quality of our team. The offense -- which is his area -- is a complete trainwreck. Maybe it would be even worse under a different coach, but I see no reason for believing that.
The main thing, though, is that I think this team can attract a solid coach now that its under new ownership. We only hired Marrone because he was willing to take the job. We can do better than that now and there's no reason why we should settle.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Manuel was pretty awful and he got benched for a reason. My guess is that he has very little chance of starting if Marrone returns next year. Most of us expect the Bills to bring in a QB through trade or free agency, and it's also hard to imagine them not drafting one.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Agreed.
They need to sign one via free agency and draft one.
What will the options be though? Cutler and who else?
Bills_Fan11
Footballguy
Much more so now. Impossible for a modern day Marino not to win more.
It's an unintended consequence of FA/Cap.
Marrone has a solid track record of teams improving under his watchI'm sick of the idiotic game-day decisions, like constantly punting when they should clearly run a play on 4th down.
It seems he's done a lot with a little and built the team back from garbage to respectaility in just couple of seasons. Give him an NFL caliber QB and they are a contender....
Also, I'm not seeing his contribution to the quality of our team. The offense -- which is his area -- is a complete trainwreck. Maybe it would be even worse under a different coach, but I see no reason for believing that.
The main thing, though, is that I think this team can attract a solid coach now that its under new ownership. We only hired Marrone because he was willing to take the job. We can do better than that now and there's no reason why we should settle.
The offense is stymied by the poor play of the QB
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Theres all this talk of about these certain QB's being available and I kinda doubt most will be.
I don't think RGIII and Bradford will be available like people think. Possibly not even Cutler.
I'm worried we'll be going into next year with the same 3 QB's. And I for one will be hopeful Jeff Tuel has made some huge strides. Because I can't stand Orton or Manual.
I don't think RGIII and Bradford will be available like people think. Possibly not even Cutler.
I'm worried we'll be going into next year with the same 3 QB's. And I for one will be hopeful Jeff Tuel has made some huge strides. Because I can't stand Orton or Manual.
Not really, at least not at this level. QB is obviously a huge issue, but Marrone is still a question mark IMO.Marrone has a solid track record of teams improving under his watchI'm sick of the idiotic game-day decisions, like constantly punting when they should clearly run a play on 4th down.
It seems he's done a lot with a little and built the team back from garbage to respectaility in just couple of seasons. Give him an NFL caliber QB and they are a contender....
Also, I'm not seeing his contribution to the quality of our team. The offense -- which is his area -- is a complete trainwreck. Maybe it would be even worse under a different coach, but I see no reason for believing that.
The main thing, though, is that I think this team can attract a solid coach now that its under new ownership. We only hired Marrone because he was willing to take the job. We can do better than that now and there's no reason why we should settle.
The offense is stymied by the poor play of the QB
flysack
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
He does? Seems to me that his track record says he took an awful Syracuse team and got them to .500. That's about it.FlapJacks said:Marrone has a solid track record of teams improving under his watchThe offense is stymied by the poor play of the QBI'm sick of the idiotic game-day decisions, like constantly punting when they should clearly run a play on 4th down.
It seems he's done a lot with a little and built the team back from garbage to respectaility in just couple of seasons. Give him an NFL caliber QB and they are a contender....
Also, I'm not seeing his contribution to the quality of our team. The offense -- which is his area -- is a complete trainwreck. Maybe it would be even worse under a different coach, but I see no reason for believing that.
The main thing, though, is that I think this team can attract a solid coach now that its under new ownership. We only hired Marrone because he was willing to take the job. We can do better than that now and there's no reason why we should settle.
And the offense's problems are about more than just the QB. Buffalo had one of the best run games in the NFL under Gailey and now they are one of the worst. Buffalo had a solid O-line under Gailey and they've steadily declined to the point where they are ranked the worst in the league. The O-line is supposed to be Marrone's thing. He works with them every single day. And they continue to regress and get worse and worse. There are tons of articles, from both a Bills writers and national writers, ridiculing Marrone and his in game management going all the way back to last year.
Among his worst qualities is how aggressively stubborn he is. When called on a bad in game coaching decision he scoffs and claims that the stats back him up. When the stats prove him wrong he makes up some other excuse. His treatment of players is the same. Buffalo has an awful red zone offense and yet Mike Williams remained in his dog house all year despite being one of the best red zone receivers in football. You see, Mike had the audacity to actually speak out and say that he didn't know why he wasn't being used more and thought he could help in the red zone. Marrone didn't like Williams questioning him and that was the end of Mike Williams in Buffalo. And Buffalo's RZ woes continued.
OC Zed
Footballguy
Maybe... but is he a guy that can get you over the top? I don't think so.
But, FWIW, I'm surprised there isn't more Hoyer/Bills discussions going on. It's a logical fit after rolling with Fitzpatrick and Orton for most of the last 5 years.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm open to the possibility that maybe a year on the bench might possibly have done EJ some good, but we can sort that out in camp. Otherwise I agree. Manuel was just brutal earlier in the season, and I think the staff saw all they felt they needed to see.
OC Zed
Footballguy
He gains by giving Manuel some more playing time which could provide dividends next year.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
I don't know how I feel about all this talk of getting rid of Whaley. I think he's done a very good job rounds 2-7. He's been terrible in round 1, and hasn't been able to find us a competent QB, but there's no doubt this team is on the rise and almost there.
I'm almost hoping everyone sticks around (unless Bill Cowher decides to come back).
I'm almost hoping everyone sticks around (unless Bill Cowher decides to come back).
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I strongly disagree with the "fire Whaley" talk.
1. Firing your GM while keeping your coach seems completely backwards to me. Who the hell accepts that vacant GM position when he can't hire his own coach? If the Jets are good for anything, it's serving as a negative role model to the rest of the league. How about if we learn from their mistake?
2. No, Whaley hasn't found us a QB, and he deserves a fair shame of blame for that -- both for whiffing on Manuel and failing to draft QBs in other rounds. How many other NFL franchises have failed to find a franchise QB? It's not like he has uniquely failed in this regard. If our QB situation is still a trainwreck in two years, I'll be harsher on this point, but the guy deserves a little time and he's entitled to one miss.
3. Like you said, Whaley did a great job in later rounds and managed to make some really nice waiver claims. The guys he picked up mid-season weren't castoffs from Green Bay or New England -- they came from horrible teams like Tampa and Washington. When you find treasure in those teams' trash, you're doing a good job.
4. I'm still not comfortable with last year's trade for Watkins, but I'll say this for it. First of all, at least Watkins is clearly a quality player -- he's a keeper. Second, Whaley was correct that the first rounder he traded away was going to be a low-ish pick. It's not like we traded away the chance to pick Mariota.
Whaley is the first GM we've had in a while that I really happy about, going to back Tom Donahoe I guess, or maybe Jerry Butler. I can live with keeping Marrone around for another year. I can even live with Hackett coming back if the FO reviews game film and concludes that the problem was with the guy running the plays, not the guy calling them. But firing Whaley and keeping the coaching staff would really piss me off.*
*Edit: To clarify, I don't mean "That's it -- I'm done with this team" pissed off. I'm optimistic about the future of the Bills now that we have new ownership, and if they bring in somebody credible who decides that Marrone should stay, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Just not the move I would make.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
After reading this article (which I hadn't seen when it was first written), I'm definitely in the keep Whaley camp. But also in the "Get Rid Of All These Old Guys" camp. I think Russ Brandon should be totally gone as well as he clearly is the one that created that mess.
http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/02/23/sources-disconnect-youngsters-lifers-bills-organization/
http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/02/23/sources-disconnect-youngsters-lifers-bills-organization/
Orton announced he's retiring?
Wow
Buffalo Bills @buffalobills · 12m 12 minutes ago
Kyle Orton has announced his retirement form the NFL http://bufbills.co/lNqAkp
Wow
Buffalo Bills @buffalobills · 12m 12 minutes ago
Kyle Orton has announced his retirement form the NFL http://bufbills.co/lNqAkp
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