Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Tyler Eifert, TE (JAC) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter zed2283
- Start date
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Eifert is being using more on the longer routes (like 15-yard types) over the middle which is great stuff. Both him and Gresham are a load. But the notion that he is replacing Gresham is a misguided one. This is the offense the Bengals are striving for. Balanced with multiple weapons. I bemoaned Gresham's performance against the Texans as loudly as anyone, but he has been awesome this year and reminded me of why he's probably my favorite Bengal to watch after the catch.
-QG
-QG
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
He just looks the part. Looks almost out of place being as tall as he is with those long arms but he's surprisingly fluid for his size. I have no doubt he's going to be a superstar.
Sorry, just catching up now. To which measurables are you referring? I'm seeing comparable 40-times (4.66 for Gresham, 4.68 for Eifert) and Eifert beating Gresham in every other event at the combine.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I won't speak for Adam, but I remember there being a prevailing thought at the time that Gresham was a freakish athlete, but with a knee injury that slowed him down. Now, he has never proven to be an athletic specimen in the NFL, but he is great after the catch. It's possible that the knee injury forever sapped him of his former speed and athleticism, but I'm thinking its more likely that the thoughts about his freakishness coming out were just exaggerated or wrong. He was pretty hyped coming in.Ernol said:
Last edited by a moderator:
financewonk
Footballguy
gresham is out today. any redrafters rolling with eifert?
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I think he's good play today. No excuses, I just hope they target him at least 8 or 9 times.
EBF
Footballguy
Nice catch-and-run yesterday:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000279142/Eifert-40-yard-reception
Quietly having a solid rookie season. On pace for 580 yards, which is very good for a first year TE.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000279142/Eifert-40-yard-reception
Quietly having a solid rookie season. On pace for 580 yards, which is very good for a first year TE.
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Yeah, I actually buy into Eifert as a player but I just thought the constant assurances being thrown out was kind of funny. Let's just call it like it is: this year has been underwhelming. It doesn't mean anything against his long-term projections which I still think are very good, but no one went into this season thinking "I hope Eifert pulls in around 500 yards this year!"
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'm a little bit surprised no one's discussing how Gresham might be out and leave the TE points all to Eifert.
eNdblu
Footballguy
The combo of Eifert and Gresham have quietly put up 141pts in PPR. I don't think there are other TEs that are competing for targets quite like these two have cancelled one another out this year.
I think the dynasty outlook of Eifert in that offense is pretty bright as he progresses and (hopefully) Gresham leaves in the coming years.
(HULK)
(Smash)
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't know, missed the last game with a groin pull/injury which can be tough to play with in any event.
EBF
Footballguy
Not at all. 500 yards is great for a rookie TE. Maybe with Reed going off people are forgetting how hard it is to make an instant impact at this position. Look at the rookie years for these guys:bigmarc27 said:
Jimmy Graham - 356 yards
Rob Gronkowski - 546 yards
Antonio Gates - 389 yards
Jason Witten - 347 yards
Tony Gonzalez - 368 yards
Todd Heap - 206 yards
Owen Daniels - 352 yards
Jermichael Finley - 74 yards
Greg Olsen - 391 yards
Vernon Davis - 265 yards
There's no need for "assurance" given that Eifert is on pace to have one of the best rookie TE seasons in recent memory. I only posted the catch because I thought it was an impressive play and wanted to share.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Maybe expectations are higher because he was drafted 21st overall.
bigmarc27
Footballguy
As mentioned in the post prior, he was a first round pick and considered a polished product - Graham and Gates had barely played football. The two comparables on there are really Vernon Davis and Greg Olsen. Personally if Eifert has less of a career than Olsen then I will be severely underwhelmed. Regardless, my disappointment in his rookie season stems more from things out of his control - mainly big red not looking his way often and even when he does, the throws aren't on the mark.
Last edited by a moderator:
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Since 1980, 65 tight ends were taken with a top-50 draft pick. Five of them topped 600 receiving yards their rookie year. Eifert still has a decent chance at joining those ranks. I agree with EBF, if Eifert is underperforming expectations, perhaps the fault lies more with expectations than with Eifert. TE is historically one of the most difficult positions for any player to make the jump their rookie year. Speaking strictly about statistics and fantasy impact, it's easier for a rookie QB to make the leap than a rookie TE. Year 2 has typically been the year where you find out what it is that you have at the TE position.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
My eyes don't lie, he's going to be very good
3nOut
Footballguy
When? If Gresham is still there next year, what kind of numbers can you expect from him in 20014?
EBF
Footballguy
It's pretty common to see TEs take a big step in year two. Some recent examples:
Todd Heap
Jason Witten
Zach Miller
Antonio Gates
Owen Daniels
Brandon Pettigrew
Jimmy Graham
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Others like Jermaine Gresham, Kyle Rudolph, Coby Fleener, Tony Gonzalez, Marcedes Lewis, and Greg Olsen had more moderate, but still significant gains in year two. There are a few names like Vernon Davis and Dallas Clark that took longer to peak, but many of those cases involve an injury situation (i.e. Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron) or a clear lack of opportunity (i.e. Martellus Bennett in Dallas behind Witten).
What's pretty rare is to see a TE come in, look good immediately, and then fade away. There are a few examples. John Carlson had 600+ yards as a rookie and never broke that barrier again. Jeremy Shockey had 896 yards as a rookie. That ended up being his career high. Heath Miller saw his production drop in his second year before it climbed back up in future seasons. Those guys are the exception and not the rule though. The general rule is that legitimate NFL caliber TEs improve over their first 1-2 seasons of heavy experience. So I think it's far more likely that Eifert's yardage total moves up next season as opposed to staying flat or moving down.
Where will those numbers come from? AJ Green leads the NFL in targets. Maybe he kicks a few of those down to Eifert. Maybe Eifert starts to keep Gresham off the field. Maybe he takes away looks from Bernard and Jones. I don't know exactly how it will happen, but I'd bet on his production rising.
Todd Heap
Jason Witten
Zach Miller
Antonio Gates
Owen Daniels
Brandon Pettigrew
Jimmy Graham
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Others like Jermaine Gresham, Kyle Rudolph, Coby Fleener, Tony Gonzalez, Marcedes Lewis, and Greg Olsen had more moderate, but still significant gains in year two. There are a few names like Vernon Davis and Dallas Clark that took longer to peak, but many of those cases involve an injury situation (i.e. Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron) or a clear lack of opportunity (i.e. Martellus Bennett in Dallas behind Witten).
What's pretty rare is to see a TE come in, look good immediately, and then fade away. There are a few examples. John Carlson had 600+ yards as a rookie and never broke that barrier again. Jeremy Shockey had 896 yards as a rookie. That ended up being his career high. Heath Miller saw his production drop in his second year before it climbed back up in future seasons. Those guys are the exception and not the rule though. The general rule is that legitimate NFL caliber TEs improve over their first 1-2 seasons of heavy experience. So I think it's far more likely that Eifert's yardage total moves up next season as opposed to staying flat or moving down.
Where will those numbers come from? AJ Green leads the NFL in targets. Maybe he kicks a few of those down to Eifert. Maybe Eifert starts to keep Gresham off the field. Maybe he takes away looks from Bernard and Jones. I don't know exactly how it will happen, but I'd bet on his production rising.
Last edited by a moderator:
Louche
Footballguy
So what do we think of Eifert's future potential in dynasty? I'm a Bengals fan so I have of course watched every game this season and I'm not quite sure what I think about Eifert. What he has demonstrated is that he runs pretty good routes for a TE, he has soft hands, he fights for yards after catching the ball...but parts of his game has been disappointing. Some of that has to do with how he is being used. He has practically been getting zero end zone targets and he only has 1 TD on the year. Red zone work was supposed to be one of his strengths as per scouting reports coming out of college so I don't quite understand why he seems to be missing from that part of the game. 36 of his 48 targets have been in the negative to 9 yard distance. His yards per reception at 12,1 is respectable enough but should we be expecting more from a TE that lines up at WR as much as he does? Those 12 yards are often 3-5 yard catches followed by Eifert carrying some DB on his back for 5-6 more yards. He does very well outside the numbers on short distance throws, but he struggles a lot in traffic. Should not this type of TE attack the seam and be an option for Dalton that attacks the middle of the field? His catch rate in between the numbers is only 56 % whereas his catch rate outside the numbers is 78 %. PFF is ranking his blocking as around average, but to me he seems like he is lacking that tough physical game. He shows that powerful part of his game when he has caught the ball and is fighting for extra yards, but outside of that his game can seem a bit soft. His production in terms of yards has been quite good for playing 67 % of the snaps, as many of you have already mentioned, but is he who we hoped and thought he would be? Does he have high TE1 potential in dynasty?
How fast his production progresses will of course also depend on what happens to Gresham who I think has been really bad this year. Frustrating play. I was a fan of him, but he has been really disappointing to me - and he is often the most frustrating at key moments in the game. On those crucial drives it is too often that he has some really bad drops or mental errors - particularly through penalties. Offensive holding, false starts, unsportsmanlike conduct and offensive pass interference. He is verging on the top 10 in the league when it comes to penalties - regardless of position(!). PFF has him ranked as number 61 out of 61 TEs. A lot of that comes from poor blocking though, which I thought was one of his strengths so I'm not always sure how literally one should take the PFF ratings. As for his offensive production it is a lot of the same problem as with Eifert, which in all fairness might stem more from how they are being utilized by Gruden. They both average about 4 yards before YAC. This is signficantly lower than most top TEs in the league who average 6-10 yards before YAC. Granted, the Bengals are not a vertical offense and Andy Dalton is more suited to a West Coast offense that is built more around short throws and YAC, so the system and QB is what it is and we can't expect Ladarious Green type routes with Eifert. But the most disappointing part of how the TEs are being utilized is the missing production in the red zone. I would say that the threat to Eifert's dynasty potential lies just as much in the way the Bengals offense is built as it is splitting targets with Gresham.
What I am unsure about is how they view Gresham within the organisation. If he does not sign an extension in the offseason I'm pretty sure we would see Eifert slide towards the front during next season but if they sign Gresham again I don't know...they are never going to be a Gronk/Hernandez combo.
How fast his production progresses will of course also depend on what happens to Gresham who I think has been really bad this year. Frustrating play. I was a fan of him, but he has been really disappointing to me - and he is often the most frustrating at key moments in the game. On those crucial drives it is too often that he has some really bad drops or mental errors - particularly through penalties. Offensive holding, false starts, unsportsmanlike conduct and offensive pass interference. He is verging on the top 10 in the league when it comes to penalties - regardless of position(!). PFF has him ranked as number 61 out of 61 TEs. A lot of that comes from poor blocking though, which I thought was one of his strengths so I'm not always sure how literally one should take the PFF ratings. As for his offensive production it is a lot of the same problem as with Eifert, which in all fairness might stem more from how they are being utilized by Gruden. They both average about 4 yards before YAC. This is signficantly lower than most top TEs in the league who average 6-10 yards before YAC. Granted, the Bengals are not a vertical offense and Andy Dalton is more suited to a West Coast offense that is built more around short throws and YAC, so the system and QB is what it is and we can't expect Ladarious Green type routes with Eifert. But the most disappointing part of how the TEs are being utilized is the missing production in the red zone. I would say that the threat to Eifert's dynasty potential lies just as much in the way the Bengals offense is built as it is splitting targets with Gresham.
What I am unsure about is how they view Gresham within the organisation. If he does not sign an extension in the offseason I'm pretty sure we would see Eifert slide towards the front during next season but if they sign Gresham again I don't know...they are never going to be a Gronk/Hernandez combo.
EBF
Footballguy
I'm pleased with the production and I think he's still on course to become a solid mid-level TE1. TEs typically don't peak until a year or two into their career, so I think we'll have a much better idea of what Eifert can do next year when he has a full season of experience under his belt.
I would guess they will entertain a good offer for Gresham as he'll be in his last year next year.
In college, at OK State was Pettigrew and at OU was Gresham, one year apart and two of the best. People often compared the two.
Pettigrew is a free agent this coming offseason. I imagine Gresham will have similar value(forever intertwined?) the year after so the Bengals probably have to consider if Gresham is worth that amount or trading him.
IMO Their two TEs have been useful and all, but it's made their very deep young WR corps almost minimized at times this year. Trading Gresham would get those young wideouts on the field more, keeping him, they ought to consider trading some young talented WRs then.
All in all, the Bengals are in a good spot where they can see what offers come, if any. The right moves can propel Eifert's value in FF IMO.
In college, at OK State was Pettigrew and at OU was Gresham, one year apart and two of the best. People often compared the two.
Pettigrew is a free agent this coming offseason. I imagine Gresham will have similar value(forever intertwined?) the year after so the Bengals probably have to consider if Gresham is worth that amount or trading him.
IMO Their two TEs have been useful and all, but it's made their very deep young WR corps almost minimized at times this year. Trading Gresham would get those young wideouts on the field more, keeping him, they ought to consider trading some young talented WRs then.
All in all, the Bengals are in a good spot where they can see what offers come, if any. The right moves can propel Eifert's value in FF IMO.
Louche
Footballguy
I thought he looked really good after Gresham got injured. It was the most active I can remember seeing him all season, which is a bit sad since he only had three targets...but he caught all three and they all came on the last three drives so he was quite involved towards the end of the game. His second catch was fantastic, spinning and breaking tackles after the catch. I had a feeling similar to what I had with Gio earlier in the season when the rookie flashes some explosiveness that the veteran starter simply does not have. And they finally used him in the red zone; first on his touchdown and then later in the fourth quarter when they went for the 2-pt conversion but the ball was batted down by one of the DLs so it was never registered as a target. It was all still a very limited showing but one could get a sense of how he could be an important and effective part of this offense when/if Gresham is gone. As for Gresham he came off a good game against IND but only caught 3 of 5 for 23 yards and a fumble lost.
EastonBlues22
Footballguy
I think Eifert has looked good all year. He's a smooth athlete who looks great in the passing game. All that's holding him back is targets at this point, which is partially tied to Gresham's presence, and partially to his blocking.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Anyone for Eifert as a possible start with Gresham out?
At home vs MIN which on paper at least looks like a good passing matchup.
Last edited by a moderator:
Louche
Footballguy
Well the stars would certainly be aligning if Gresham is indeed out...MIN is the third best matchup for TEs and the last time Gresham was injured Eifert had 10 targets. In that game he only caught three of them for 55 yards and no TD so it is still a risky play and you might have better options but I would be excited to see that game. I see some pundits hyping up Marvin Jones for this week as well, due to his increased snap count against PIT, but to me everyone on the Bengals offense outside of Green and Gio (and to a certain extent Dalton) are uncertain plays due to the lack of predictability in how they spread the action. It is not a full on Bill Belichick but the CIN offense can be a bit hard to predict and it is very up and down. Heaven or hell. 5 TDs or 0 TDs. 300 yards in the first half or 86 yards.
buddhacwru
Footballguy
Looks like Gresham practiced today. Oh well, see you next year Eifert.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Just traded for Eifert in a TE-heavy league, so coming in here to 
Faust
MVP
cheese
Footballguy
I was at the scrimmage they're referencing and he definitely stood out. Neither deep ball was contested though so it's hard to say if it was a defensive breakdown or great design or what. I like him this year, but he was an August superstar last year too and it didn't translate enough for fantasy relevance.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
What #'s are you expecting from him this season? Is he higher or lower than those in the SD TE situation?
slackjawedyokel
Footballguy
With Gates around, I think LG is a bit overdrafted in redraft. Eifert would be pick over either SD guys. I have him with 820 yds and 6 TDs.Bigboy10182000 said:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The not playing in the pre-season with the shoulder and them slowing down the offense worries me about Eifert. 820 and 6 would be amazing for him
EBF
Footballguy
Gresham actually finished as a top 10 TE in 2012, but Rotoworld has always hated him.
Anyway, Eifert was looking great in this game before he got hurt. Really hope it's only a few weeks. From what I read, dislocated elbows can get pretty nasty. Fortunately it sounds like he avoided nerve and artery damage, which is where it really becomes a grim situation.
Similar threads
