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I wonder how much of that decision was made by the coach, and how much was made by the GM.

if a decision on the franchise qb is anything but a consensus between the two then you're probably looking at a new regime in a couple of years.

I would think a true consensus between any coach and their GM is incredibly rare.

Both have gotta be on board though.

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I wonder how much of that decision was made by the coach, and how much was made by the GM.

if a decision on the franchise qb is anything but a consensus between the two then you're probably looking at a new regime in a couple of years.

I would think a true consensus between any coach and their GM is incredibly rare.

Both have gotta be on board though.

I'm confident that both are equally terrible

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I wonder how much of that decision was made by the coach, and how much was made by the GM.

if a decision on the franchise qb is anything but a consensus between the two then you're probably looking at a new regime in a couple of years.

I would think a true consensus between any coach and their GM is incredibly rare.

Both have gotta be on board though.

I'm confident that both are equally terrible

The Bills decision makers? Oh, absolutely. Every time they need to make a decision involving a QB they have hit the wrong button. It's gonna get them fired when the new ownership group comes in.

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A house cleaning is definitely on the horizon, These guys are not only buffons, they take one NFL team completely out of play in fantasy football.

Edited by lod01

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Generally I wouldn't pass judgement on a young QB until after his second full season, but it doesn't look like Manuel has progressed at all. And you expect a good deal of growth from first to second year.

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Generally I wouldn't pass judgement on a young QB until after his second full season, but it doesn't look like Manuel has progressed at all. And you expect a good deal of growth from first to second year.

In fairness, the season hasn't started yet.

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Generally I wouldn't pass judgement on a young QB until after his second full season, but it doesn't look like Manuel has progressed at all. And you expect a good deal of growth from first to second year.

In fairness, the season hasn't started yet.

That's true. And I am still hoping the light turns on. But, if he can't do better against vanilla defenses in preseason, can we really expect him to look better against defenses that are designed to mess him up in regular season?

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How much of it was Manuel last night and how much of it was the poor line play?

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Generally I wouldn't pass judgement on a young QB until after his second full season, but it doesn't look like Manuel has progressed at all. And you expect a good deal of growth from first to second year.

In fairness, the season hasn't started yet.

That's true. And I am still hoping the light turns on. But, if he can't do better against vanilla defenses in preseason, can we really expect him to look better against defenses that are designed to mess him up in regular season?

He hasn't even done well in practice (until the last few practices, which have supposedly been better at least).

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How much of it was Manuel last night and how much of it was the poor line play?

The problem is Manuel is a one read QB and then check down master. He locks onto his initial read and if it is not open he checks down. This preseason I was hoping to see an improved qb. One that looks off a safety before hitting his first read, or reading the defense and if his first read is not going to be open get to the second read. It is painful watching Manuel in the pocket. He also has been sporadic with his accuracy and he seems to lack any touch.

I really don't see Manuel amounting to much at all if he is still struggling this much in year 2. It is quite alarming.

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How much of it was Manuel last night and how much of it was the poor line play?

The problem is Manuel is a one read QB and then check down master. He locks onto his initial read and if it is not open he checks down. This preseason I was hoping to see an improved qb. One that looks off a safety before hitting his first read, or reading the defense and if his first read is not going to be open get to the second read. It is painful watching Manuel in the pocket. He also has been sporadic with his accuracy and he seems to lack any touch.

I really don't see Manuel amounting to much at all if he is still struggling this much in year 2. It is quite alarming.

If you would have told me in 2003 (his 3rd year) that Drew Brees was going to be in the HOF I would have laughed in your face.

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How much of it was Manuel last night and how much of it was the poor line play?

The problem is Manuel is a one read QB and then check down master. He locks onto his initial read and if it is not open he checks down. This preseason I was hoping to see an improved qb. One that looks off a safety before hitting his first read, or reading the defense and if his first read is not going to be open get to the second read. It is painful watching Manuel in the pocket. He also has been sporadic with his accuracy and he seems to lack any touch.

I really don't see Manuel amounting to much at all if he is still struggling this much in year 2. It is quite alarming.

If you would have told me in 2003 (his 3rd year) that Drew Brees was going to be in the HOF I would have laughed in your face.

It is difficult to predict futures this much is true. But remember that guys like Brees and Brady are the anomaly. There are lot more examples of young qb's like Manuel who have not looked the part and were not able to improve and gone on being useless. Over the last while you have guys like Ponder, Russel, Gabbert, Weeden, Sanchez, Quinn etc etc. Manuel looks a lot more like he will be part of that bust group than he will be joining a path like Brees did.

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How much of it was Manuel last night and how much of it was the poor line play?

The problem is Manuel is a one read QB and then check down master. He locks onto his initial read and if it is not open he checks down. This preseason I was hoping to see an improved qb. One that looks off a safety before hitting his first read, or reading the defense and if his first read is not going to be open get to the second read. It is painful watching Manuel in the pocket. He also has been sporadic with his accuracy and he seems to lack any touch.

I really don't see Manuel amounting to much at all if he is still struggling this much in year 2. It is quite alarming.

If you would have told me in 2003 (his 3rd year) that Drew Brees was going to be in the HOF I would have laughed in your face.

It is difficult to predict futures this much is true. But remember that guys like Brees and Brady are the anomaly. There are lot more examples of young qb's like Manuel who have not looked the part and were not able to improve and gone on being useless. Over the last while you have guys like Ponder, Russel, Gabbert, Weeden, Sanchez, Quinn etc etc. Manuel looks a lot more like he will be part of that bust group than he will be joining a path like Brees did.

It's certainly more likely that he won't be a long-term starter, but his rookie year was not that bad and he has the running ability to make up for not being a great passer. I don't like what I've seen so far, but I'm reserving judgement until after the season.

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How bad do you have to feel about yourself if you're Thad Lewis to get cut while this clown starts? And Tuel time? Riiiight.

They may as well give Kyle Orton a ring or see if Josh Freeman can pass an NFL drug test at this point.

And they gave their 1st rounder next year to get Watkins :crazy:

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How bad do you have to feel about yourself if you're Thad Lewis to get cut while this clown starts? And Tuel time? Riiiight.

They may as well give Kyle Orton a ring or see if Josh Freeman can pass an NFL drug test at this point.

And they gave their 1st rounder next year to get Watkins :crazy:

:thumbup:

Bills signed QB Kyle Orton to a one-year contract.

Orton, 31, made one start for the Cowboys last season in an NFC East win-or-go-home tilt with the Eagles. He scattered check down after check down amongst 46 pass attempts, completing 30 for 358 yards, two touchdowns and two interceptions. Orton was on the verge of retirement before the Bills lured him back into the league, but it's fair to wonder if he eventually becomes a better option than E.J. Manuel. For now, Orton will push Jeff Tuel for the backup job.
Related: Cowboys

Why Not?

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Dee. Zass. Tur.

I can't believe it's August 29th and I am saying they signing Kyle Orton was a great move. Here we are though.

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Seriously? Did someone just refer to his "rushing ability"? LOL! It has been proven since his college career that he IS NOT a scrambling QB. Many of the people that have known better have said that this hoser has almost no rushing ability...think Byron Leftwich. Just because he is tall and solid does not mean he has running ability. I would much rather have Ben Rothliserger. I am an FSU fan an I warned people not to draft this imposter. But too many people bought in to the hype. This guy is waiver fodder and I would much rather take a flier on a guy like Derek Carr, Shaun Hill, Hoyer, etc. Either way you aren't left high and dry considering you paid a decent price for Manuel since he has "such rushing abilty"...LOL!

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How bad do you have to feel about yourself if you're Thad Lewis to get cut while this clown starts? And Tuel time? Riiiight.

They may as well give Kyle Orton a ring or see if Josh Freeman can pass an NFL drug test at this point.

And they gave their 1st rounder next year to get Watkins :crazy:

:thumbup:

Bills signed QB Kyle Orton to a one-year contract.

Orton, 31, made one start for the Cowboys last season in an NFC East win-or-go-home tilt with the Eagles. He scattered check down after check down amongst 46 pass attempts, completing 30 for 358 yards, two touchdowns and two interceptions. Orton was on the verge of retirement before the Bills lured him back into the league, but it's fair to wonder if he eventually becomes a better option than E.J. Manuel. For now, Orton will push Jeff Tuel for the backup job.

Related: Cowboys

Why Not?

I think it's funny that they think he'll push Tuel for the backup job. Orton IS the backup. Tuel might not even make the team.

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I'm shocked that Orton is only 31. I thought he was nearing 40. Seems like he's been in the league forever.

And it's definitely a good signing by the Bills. If they can keep him off the field for 4 weeks so he can learn the offense, he'll make a great backup or second option.

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Seriously? Did someone just refer to his "rushing ability"? LOL! It has been proven since his college career that he IS NOT a scrambling QB. Many of the people that have known better have said that this hoser has almost no rushing ability...think Byron Leftwich. Just because he is tall and solid does not mean he has running ability. I would much rather have Ben Rothliserger. I am an FSU fan an I warned people not to draft this imposter. But too many people bought in to the hype. This guy is waiver fodder and I would much rather take a flier on a guy like Derek Carr, Shaun Hill, Hoyer, etc. Either way you aren't left high and dry considering you paid a decent price for Manuel since he has "such rushing abilty"...LOL!

But he's black. Don't all them people run well?

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Jeff Tuel cut. Manuel is now the only QB on the roster who has ever played or practiced with the team.

Edited by Mr. Retukes

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Jeff Tuel cut. Manuel is now the only QB on the roster who has ever played or practiced with the team.

JFC

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Jeff Tuel cut. Manuel is now the only QB on the roster who has ever played or practiced with the team.

And Orton will still outperform him.

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Seriously? Did someone just refer to his "rushing ability"? LOL! It has been proven since his college career that he IS NOT a scrambling QB. Many of the people that have known better have said that this hoser has almost no rushing ability...think Byron Leftwich. Just because he is tall and solid does not mean he has running ability. I would much rather have Ben Rothliserger. I am an FSU fan an I warned people not to draft this imposter. But too many people bought in to the hype. This guy is waiver fodder and I would much rather take a flier on a guy like Derek Carr, Shaun Hill, Hoyer, etc. Either way you aren't left high and dry considering you paid a decent price for Manuel since he has "such rushing abilty"...LOL!

But he's black. Don't all them people run well?

He's a QB who can run, like Luck. To compare Manuel to Leftwich is ignorant. Manuel ran a 4.59 40 at 237 lbs. - nearly identical to Kelvin Benjamin.

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Seriously? Did someone just refer to his "rushing ability"? LOL! It has been proven since his college career that he IS NOT a scrambling QB. Many of the people that have known better have said that this hoser has almost no rushing ability...think Byron Leftwich. Just because he is tall and solid does not mean he has running ability. I would much rather have Ben Rothliserger. I am an FSU fan an I warned people not to draft this imposter. But too many people bought in to the hype. This guy is waiver fodder and I would much rather take a flier on a guy like Derek Carr, Shaun Hill, Hoyer, etc. Either way you aren't left high and dry considering you paid a decent price for Manuel since he has "such rushing abilty"...LOL!

But he's black. Don't all them people run well?

He's a QB who can run, like Luck. To compare Manuel to Leftwich is ignorant. Manuel ran a 4.59 40 at 237 lbs. - nearly identical to Kelvin Benjamin.

You're right. Comparing him to Leftwich is an insult to Leftwich and I liked him.

Peyton Manning "can" run too. Is he being drafted on his running ability?

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Jeff Tuel cut. Manuel is now the only QB on the roster who has ever played or practiced with the team.

JFC
Of course following Bills luck, Manuel will get hurt week 1. Edited by Jeff Vader

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Seriously? Did someone just refer to his "rushing ability"? LOL! It has been proven since his college career that he IS NOT a scrambling QB. Many of the people that have known better have said that this hoser has almost no rushing ability...think Byron Leftwich. Just because he is tall and solid does not mean he has running ability. I would much rather have Ben Rothliserger. I am an FSU fan an I warned people not to draft this imposter. But too many people bought in to the hype. This guy is waiver fodder and I would much rather take a flier on a guy like Derek Carr, Shaun Hill, Hoyer, etc. Either way you aren't left high and dry considering you paid a decent price for Manuel since he has "such rushing abilty"...LOL!

But he's black. Don't all them people run well?

He's a QB who can run, like Luck. To compare Manuel to Leftwich is ignorant. Manuel ran a 4.59 40 at 237 lbs. - nearly identical to Kelvin Benjamin.

You're right. Comparing him to Leftwich is an insult to Leftwich and I liked him.

Peyton Manning "can" run too. Is he being drafted on his running ability?

EJ rushed for roughly 10% what he passed for. Not great by any means but Peyton isn't doing that.

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NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports new Bills QB Kyle Orton will make $5 million this season.



As former Rotoworlder Chris Wesseling points out, that's as much as Josh McCown is making this season. The Bills have clearly lost faith in E.J. Manuel, and appear ready to turn to Orton at a moment's notice. Manuel will keep his starting job to begin the season as Orton gets up to speed on the playbook, but has no room for error. With the Bills hoping to field one of the league's most run-heavy offenses, Orton will be a bottom-barrel QB2 if/when he gets the call to replace Manuel.


Related: E.J. Manuel



Aug 30 - 7:27 PM

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No idea if Nassib is now or will end up being better, but I still think it made a ton of sense to take him when he was available in the 4th. SMH.

Agreed. I remember thinking that that whole draft. Oh, and this year's draft, too.

I remember thinking that the year before as well. Can you imagine if they had taken Russell Wilson (or Foles) with their 3rd rounder, instead of TJ Graham, who just got cut?

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Kyle Orton - QB - Bills

NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports new Bills QB Kyle Orton will make $5 million this season.

As former Rotoworlder Chris Wesseling points out, that's as much as Josh McCown is making this season. The Bills have clearly lost faith in E.J. Manuel, and appear ready to turn to Orton at a moment's notice. Manuel will keep his starting job to begin the season as Orton gets up to speed on the playbook, but has no room for error. With the Bills hoping to field one of the league's most run-heavy offenses, Orton will be a bottom-barrel QB2 if/when he gets the call to replace Manuel.

Related: E.J. Manuel

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Aug 30 - 7:27 PM

:lmao:

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No idea if Nassib is now or will end up being better, but I still think it made a ton of sense to take him when he was available in the 4th. SMH.

Agreed. I remember thinking that that whole draft. Oh, and this year's draft, too.

I remember thinking that the year before as well. Can you imagine if they had taken Russell Wilson (or Foles) with their 3rd rounder, instead of TJ Graham, who just got cut?

Honestly, i think it's most likely that foles or Wilson would be marginal players at best right now.

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they must be ready to give up on manuel -- wonder if orton can still play

It would be the smart move.

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Seriously? Did someone just refer to his "rushing ability"? LOL! It has been proven since his college career that he IS NOT a scrambling QB. Many of the people that have known better have said that this hoser has almost no rushing ability...think Byron Leftwich. Just because he is tall and solid does not mean he has running ability. I would much rather have Ben Rothliserger. I am an FSU fan an I warned people not to draft this imposter. But too many people bought in to the hype. This guy is waiver fodder and I would much rather take a flier on a guy like Derek Carr, Shaun Hill, Hoyer, etc. Either way you aren't left high and dry considering you paid a decent price for Manuel since he has "such rushing abilty"...LOL!

But he's black. Don't all them people run well?

He's a QB who can run, like Luck. To compare Manuel to Leftwich is ignorant. Manuel ran a 4.59 40 at 237 lbs. - nearly identical to Kelvin Benjamin.

You're right. Comparing him to Leftwich is an insult to Leftwich and I liked him.

Peyton Manning "can" run too. Is he being drafted on his running ability?

EJ rushed for roughly 10% what he passed for. Not great by any means but Peyton isn't doing that.

Of course Peyton isn't ...he can actually complete passes. The EJ stat just shows how poor he was throwing. He doesn't run as a set play like Vick would have or Kaep does, and doesn't run like Wilson to extend a play., Really only ran last yr when play completely broke down & even that led to injury.

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Chris Wesseling ‏@ChrisWesseling

Bills paying north of $5M to ensure the Browns won't have the top two picks in the 2015 draft.

:lol:

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No idea if Nassib is now or will end up being better, but I still think it made a ton of sense to take him when he was available in the 4th. SMH.

Agreed. I remember thinking that that whole draft. Oh, and this year's draft, too.
I remember thinking that the year before as well. Can you imagine if they had taken Russell Wilson (or Foles) with their 3rd rounder, instead of TJ Graham, who just got cut?
Honestly, i think it's most likely that foles or Wilson would be marginal players at best right now.

I disagree, especially with Wilson- the only real knock on him was size. Even if you're right, ask Bills fans if they'd like to have a marginal QB right now. Plus, they'd have whoever they picked with the 1st rounder they spent on Manuel.

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

Edited by Raiderfan32904

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

Whaley isn't long gone,

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

Whaley isn't long gone,

I must have read his wiki page wrong. I'm surprised he's still around. He's dead man walking then.

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

Whaley isn't long gone,

I must have read his wiki page wrong. I'm surprised he's still around. He's dead man walking then.

I agree, but I think it's more due to the fact that new ownership will want to bring in their own GM. Aside from the QB debacle I think Whaley has done pretty good building up the rest of the team.

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

Whaley isn't long gone,

I must have read his wiki page wrong. I'm surprised he's still around. He's dead man walking then.

You are thinking of previous GM, Buddy Nix, who Whaley also worked under for many years.

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Chris Wesseling ‏@ChrisWesseling

Bills paying north of $5M to ensure the Browns won't have the top two picks in the 2015 draft.

Forgot about that trade. That's a gut punch.

:lol:

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

Whaley isn't long gone,

I must have read his wiki page wrong. I'm surprised he's still around. He's dead man walking then.

You are thinking of previous GM, Buddy Nix, who Whaley also worked under for many years.

Pretty sure Whaley was under Nix for just 1 or 2 years.

It would be a shame if Whaley got fired. He has done a great job IMO. The biggest question mark against him is probably the Marrone hire. Although Marrone was spoken of very highly by a lot of very well regarded NFL people too.

Well, that and the extension for Branch and the Chris Williams signing.

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So what is the over/under for Number of starts with Manuel? Seems like an important question considering his play directly affects some name fantasy players in Spiller, Watkins and some value guys like FJAX, Williams, and Woods.

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So what is the over/under for Number of starts with Manuel? Seems like an important question considering his play directly affects some name fantasy players in Spiller, Watkins and some value guys like FJAX, Williams, and Woods.

I would give it five weeks. They have the Pats in week 6, and will likely be 1-4 at that point.

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

I don't think they can at this time.

They have to give E.J. a fair chance. I don't have a clear number but they would have to give him more than a couple of games unless he unravels.

Orton can't start till he learns the offense.

At some point those two variables will merge during the season, could very-well be early but not in the first or second game IMHO.

Not sure when the Bills bye week is but I would have to guess E.J. Manuel is safe for the first month of the year. That would give him a fair chance and allow enough time for Orton to get a rudimentary grasp on the system.

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Orton will be the QB by week 4.

Bills would have been better off recognizing the situation they are in and switch over to Orton prior to week one. Doug Whaley was responsible for drafting Manuel and he's long gone. Not unlike the situation in Tampa where Schiano drafted Glennon and then Lovie Smith brought in his own guy in McCown.

Two thirds of the triple W's (Woods and Williams) are now littering my league's waiver wire. And Watkins owners can't feel too comfortable right now. Once they make the switch to Orton, their values will skyrocket compared to now. What a waste of talent in Buffalo. The Spiller/FJax thread is ramrodding the Bills coaches as clueless and lazy. I can't say I disagree.

Whaley isn't long gone,

I must have read his wiki page wrong. I'm surprised he's still around. He's dead man walking then.

You are thinking of previous GM, Buddy Nix, who Whaley also worked under for many years.

Pretty sure Whaley was under Nix for just 1 or 2 years.

It would be a shame if Whaley got fired. He has done a great job IMO. The biggest question mark against him is probably the Marrone hire. Although Marrone was spoken of very highly by a lot of very well regarded NFL people too.

Well, that and the extension for Branch and the Chris Williams signing.

Whaley became the assistant GM under Nix in early 2010 (I just looked it up... I thought it was longer) and assumed full GM duties in 2013. But Nix had been grooming Whaley for at least a full season before he stepped down, so the Manuel pick can be assumed to have been signed off on by both guys (and very likely Marrone too).

Whaley has made a bunch of positive moves and a bunch that are, at best, too early to tell (Marrone, Manuel, Watkins trade, etc.). But it's a bit premature to call for the guy's head though before Week 1 of his second full year at the helm.

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