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So what is the over/under for Number of starts with Manuel? Seems like an important question considering his play directly affects some name fantasy players in Spiller, Watkins and some value guys like FJAX, Williams, and Woods.

I would give it five weeks. They have the Pats in week 6, and will likely be 1-4 at that point.

I'm going with 4.

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So what is the over/under for Number of starts with Manuel? Seems like an important question considering his play directly affects some name fantasy players in Spiller, Watkins and some value guys like FJAX, Williams, and Woods.

I would give it five weeks. They have the Pats in week 6, and will likely be 1-4 at that point.

I'm going with 4.

that's where i was originally. they play the texans in week four, and might actually win that game.

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He's horrible and he made me want to break things while he was at FSU. I am truly sorry for Bills fans.

Noles have won 15 straight since he left. :shrug:

Couple things:

- If Benjamin doesn't catch that last second TD then FSU was exactly one game better than with Manuel the year before.

- and if in 2012 Glennon doesn't throw a TD on 4th down with 16 seconds left then they have the same record.

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He's horrible and he made me want to break things while he was at FSU. I am truly sorry for Bills fans.

Noles have won 15 straight since he left. :shrug:

Couple things:

- If Benjamin doesn't catch that last second TD then FSU was exactly one game better than with Manuel the year before.

- and if in 2012 Glennon doesn't throw a TD on 4th down with 16 seconds left then they have the same record.

Boy you are really reaching here. :lmao: Let me correct you:

You mean if Winston doesn't make the throw to Benjamin that EJ never in a million years could make?

And for the Glennon game, Jameis played at such a high level that they were never in that position during the regular-season, which they frequently were with EJ. They also almost lost in 2012 to a weak Virginia Tech team on the road.

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel - QB - Bills

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Bills are "not afraid to pull the trigger" on a move to Kyle Orton.

As expected, Manuel is on the hot seat even before Week 1 starts. We already knew this, as the win-now Bills gave Orton starter's money to sign and step in if/when Manuel falters. The second-year man will not have a long leash in these first four games: at Chicago, vs. Miami, vs. San Diego and at Houston.

Related: Kyle Orton

Source: ESPN.com

Sep 7 - 12:36 PM

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Do we reassess Manuel? Obviously Buffalo ran well today, but still, beating Chicago is a good accomplishment for the second year QB.

I will say he played a lot better than I expected. It was a solid performance from what I saw.

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Manuel made one bad play, but otherwise was pretty well on target. Even better is that he was making his reads and making the right read. Not too much staring down receivers either. And he wasn't just dumping it off. He was making a lot of great throws downfield.

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He's horrible and he made me want to break things while he was at FSU. I am truly sorry for Bills fans.

Noles have won 15 straight since he left. :shrug:

Couple things:

- If Benjamin doesn't catch that last second TD then FSU was exactly one game better than with Manuel the year before.

- and if in 2012 Glennon doesn't throw a TD on 4th down with 16 seconds left then they have the same record.

Boy you are really reaching here. :lmao: Let me correct you:

You mean if Winston doesn't make the throw to Benjamin that EJ never in a million years could make?

And for the Glennon game, Jameis played at such a high level that they were never in that position during the regular-season, which they frequently were with EJ. They also almost lost in 2012 to a weak Virginia Tech team on the road.

I knew you were going to come back with that, but hey, I tried.

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Do we reassess Manuel? Obviously Buffalo ran well today, but still, beating Chicago is a good accomplishment for the second year QB.

Start everyone against Chicago D. They are a shell of what they were.

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What do you think cousins is worth? A first rounder?

I'd be stunned if Cousins got traded. RG3 missing some time is an inevitability, as reckless as he looks running.

Well that was quick. :(

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What do you think cousins is worth? A first rounder?

I'd be stunned if Cousins got traded. RG3 missing some time is an inevitability, as reckless as he looks running.

Well that was quick. :(

I don't know who's idea it was to draft Cousins after already taking RG3, but man was it brilliant.

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel completed 16-of-26 passes for 202 yards and a touchdown in Sunday's Week 2 win over Miami.

Manuel locked on to Sammy Watkins, targeting him 11 times. His touchdown came on a 12-yard crossing pattern to Watkins. Watkins dropped a 45-yard touchdown in the first quarter or Manuel would of had a bigger game. He was able to manage with the Bills struggling to establish their run game. Buffalo didn't use their zone-read package this week, giving Manuel just four carries for six yards. Manuel showed good ball placement on his downfield throws and didn't have any turnovers. The Bills have a plus matchup with the Chargers secondary in Week 3.
Sep 14 - 4:37 PM

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The #Bills announce that Kyle Orton will start at QB. 2013 first-rounder EJ Manuel has been benched.

It's the correct move here. I want to see EJ succeed, but for whatever reason he's too erratic and inconsistent. Orton isn't likely to set the world on fire either, but he's competent enough to steady the ship and hopefully give EJ some time to try and find his game.

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The #Bills announce that Kyle Orton will start at QB. 2013 first-rounder EJ Manuel has been benched.

It's the correct move here. I want to see EJ succeed, but for whatever reason he's too erratic and inconsistent. Orton isn't likely to set the world on fire either, but he's competent enough to steady the ship and hopefully give EJ some time to try and find his game.

EJ Manuel isn't an NFL-caliber QB....They made a huge mistake 2 yrs ago. At least they're finally owning up to it.

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The #Bills announce that Kyle Orton will start at QB. 2013 first-rounder EJ Manuel has been benched.

It's the correct move here. I want to see EJ succeed, but for whatever reason he's too erratic and inconsistent. Orton isn't likely to set the world on fire either, but he's competent enough to steady the ship and hopefully give EJ some time to try and find his game.

EJ Manuel isn't an NFL-caliber QB....They made a huge mistake 2 yrs ago. At least they're finally owning up to it.

Hopefully Orton can show them that they made a mistake. if Orton stinks it up like EJ, then the Buffalo FO will think that EJ is not the problem when in fact he is.

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I'm shocked this didn't work out.

I think you called this while he was still a junior in college in the CFB threads.

I've hated this guy for years. Haha

Yeah but you also said that the Tampa Oline would be fine. :loco:

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I'm shocked this didn't work out.

I think you called this while he was still a junior in college in the CFB threads.
I've hated this guy for years. Haha

Yeah but you also said that the Tampa Oline would be fine. :loco:
I have no idea who you are.

And the pass pro was really good yesterday.

Edited by Premier

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EJ Manuel isn't an NFL-caliber QB....They made a huge mistake 2 yrs ago. At least they're finally owning up to it.

huge mistake?

they traded down and still got Kiko Alonso in the deal. The Rams traded up for Tavon Austin.

I'd still rather have the Bills side of the trade even if Manuel never plays another snap.

It was definitely a mistake, but the other guy everybody thought they should take that year was Geno Smith. Doubt that would have worked out much better.

In a list of Bills draft day mistakes, I'm not sure this ranks that highly as the Bills have made a ton.

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EJ Manuel isn't an NFL-caliber QB....They made a huge mistake 2 yrs ago. At least they're finally owning up to it.

huge mistake?

they traded down and still got Kiko Alonso in the deal. The Rams traded up for Tavon Austin.

I'd still rather have the Bills side of the trade.

Agreed. Trying to find a franchise QB when you don't have one is never a mistake, even if it doesn't work out ex post.

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EJ Manuel isn't an NFL-caliber QB....They made a huge mistake 2 yrs ago. At least they're finally owning up to it.

huge mistake?

they traded down and still got Kiko Alonso in the deal. The Rams traded up for Tavon Austin.

I'd still rather have the Bills side of the trade.

Agreed. Trying to find a franchise QB when you don't have one is never a mistake, even if it doesn't work out ex post.

Manuel wasn't ever a franchise qb, he was an over drafted project. If they didn't like any of the qb's then do what the jags did last year and build depth, look for the franchise qb later.

Drafting Manuel was a crippling mistake, it cost all of these guys their job (eventually). When all is said and done they will have wasted three, maybe four, years because of that pick. That's near the top of the list.

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Manuel looked like he hasn't made any progress what-so-ever from his rookie season. I guess it's not that bad seeing how he was injured last year, but even still you want to see something. He looked a little skiddish in the pocket and held the ball a bit too long. He's really in the bottom tier of quarterbacks.

Did you watch the game against the Panthers? He'd looked pretty good to me.

Career backup?

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Drafting Manuel was a crippling mistake, it cost all of these guys their job (eventually). When all is said and done they will have wasted three, maybe four, years because of that pick. That's near the top of the list.

so taking Tavon Austin 8th overall would have helped them keep their jobs longer? That argument makes zero sense.

8th - Tavon Austin

9th - Dee Milliner

10th - Chance Warmack

11th - DJ Fluker

12th - DJ Hayden

13th - Sheldon Richardson

14th - Star Lotulelei

15th - Kenny Vaccaro

17th - Jarvis Jones

18th - Eric Reid

19th - Justin Pugh

20th - Kyle Long

21st - Tyler Eifert

22nd - Desmond Trufant

23rd - Shariff Floyd

24th - Bjorn Werner

not a ton of hits in here and probably too soon to tell on many. do these GMs and coaches also (hypothetically) lose their jobs for drafting busts? why does drafting a bust at QB hurt their chances of keeping their jobs more than drafting a bust at another position would?

how does anyone in Miami survive the trade up and selection of Dion Jordan 3rd overall that year, btw?

In 2013, Bills also drafted these guys:

Robert Woods

Kiko Alonso

Marquise Goodwin

Duke Williams

taking EJ looks like a bad move, but it's not like the guy they would have taken instead was guaranteed to be a big contributor.

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He's not saying the Rams didnt also make a mistake. They both clearly made horrible picks. EJ was taken at pick 16 correct? That's a pretty brutal draft pick. But yea it could have been worse if they took him even higher I suppose.

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Drafting Manuel was a crippling mistake, it cost all of these guys their job (eventually). When all is said and done they will have wasted three, maybe four, years because of that pick. That's near the top of the list.

so taking Tavon Austin 8th overall would have helped them keep their jobs longer? That argument makes zero sense.

8th - Tavon Austin

9th - Dee Milliner

10th - Chance Warmack

11th - DJ Fluker

12th - DJ Hayden

13th - Sheldon Richardson

14th - Star Lotulelei

15th - Kenny Vaccaro

17th - Jarvis Jones

18th - Eric Reid

19th - Justin Pugh

20th - Kyle Long

21st - Tyler Eifert

22nd - Desmond Trufant

23rd - Shariff Floyd

24th - Bjorn Werner

not a ton of hits in here and probably too soon to tell on many. do these GMs and coaches also (hypothetically) lose their jobs for drafting busts? why does drafting a bust at QB hurt their chances of keeping their jobs more than drafting a bust at another position would?

how does anyone in Miami survive the trade up and selection of Dion Jordan 3rd overall that year, btw?

In 2013, Bills also drafted these guys:

Robert Woods

Kiko Alonso

Marquise Goodwin

Duke Williams

taking EJ looks like a bad move, but it's not like the guy they would have taken instead was guaranteed to be a big contributor.

if you get qb wrong your franchise is set back years, not enough time to turn it around before losing your job...if you get another position wrong you will have mulligan opportunities, a lot more of them of you get qb right.

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if you get qb wrong your franchise is set back years, not enough time to turn it around before losing your job...if you get another position wrong you will have mulligan opportunities, a lot more of them of you get qb right.

they already moved on to Orton. How are they set back several years?

This thinking is not uncommon, but it just doesn't work here. You want to hit on as many picks as possible, and you really really want to hit on a QB. So, taking a chance on a QB that doesn't pan out doesn't kill you unless you let it. I was one of many who thought the Bills should have not been afraid to take another QB in this year's class until they felt comfortable they had an answer at the position. But, Orton is a decent bridge option who can hold things down until they find a QB of the future if necessary.

team is fine. this whole doom and gloom stuff is overblown. not like Manuel's contract is a huge albatross under the current CBA either. he was taken 16th overall. TONS of players taken in that part of the draft don't pan out.

the bigger mistake the Bills made was not taking a chance on Russell Wilson and grabbing TJ Graham over him, but they weren't the only team to write him off for being too short. They were also unfortunate in that they decided to move on from Fitzgerald during the weakest QB class in years.

if picking the wrong QB is a guaranteed ticket to getting fired, why would anyone ever draft a QB? Just keep drafting RBs and CBs in the first round like the Bills tend to do, and I guess all the experts of the world won't mind when the team misses the playoffs for 2 decades in a row.

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The epitaphs seem a bit premature to me. There have been a lot of QBs who were terrible their first couple of years before having nice careers. Drew Brees was benched for Flutie in his 2nd year too.

Maybe he ends up out of the league in a couple of years like Freeman or Young, but he at least seems to have a better head than them.

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the bigger mistake the Bills made was not taking a chance on Russell Wilson and grabbing TJ Graham over him, but they weren't the only team to write him off for being too short. They were also unfortunate in that they decided to move on from Fitzgerald during the weakest QB class in years.

Foles was drafted a few picks after Wilson, too. And Cousins - who has his own question marks but I think he's better than Manuel at the moment - was an early 4th.

Hindsight is 20/20.

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the bigger mistake the Bills made was not taking a chance on Russell Wilson and grabbing TJ Graham over him, but they weren't the only team to write him off for being too short. They were also unfortunate in that they decided to move on from Fitzgerald during the weakest QB class in years.

Foles was drafted a few picks after Wilson, too. And Cousins - who has his own question marks but I think he's better than Manuel at the moment - was an early 4th.

Hindsight is 20/20.

heck, lots of people thought the Bills might reach for Nassib last year too. No idea how that would have worked out, but probably not any better than EJ or Geno would have. Maybe someone will emerge but it just felt like a terrible class.

They definitely should have grabbed somebody a year earlier as everybody could see that Fitz wasn't the answer and it would have been nice to groom one of those guys to take over instead of being forced to take a QB in 2013. Like I said, I think the mistake was passing on a QB in 2012. They could have taken any of the guys in 2013 and stuck with Fitz and they wouldn't be much better or worse than they are now probably.

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the bigger mistake the Bills made was not taking a chance on Russell Wilson and grabbing TJ Graham over him, but they weren't the only team to write him off for being too short. They were also unfortunate in that they decided to move on from Fitzgerald during the weakest QB class in years.

Foles was drafted a few picks after Wilson, too. And Cousins - who has his own question marks but I think he's better than Manuel at the moment - was an early 4th.

Hindsight is 20/20.

heck, lots of people thought the Bills might reach for Nassib that year too. No idea how that would have worked out, but probably not any better.

Couldn't possibly have been worse- I still think they should have taken him in the 4th.

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if you get qb wrong your franchise is set back years, not enough time to turn it around before losing your job...if you get another position wrong you will have mulligan opportunities, a lot more of them of you get qb right.

they already moved on to Orton. How are they set back several years?

This thinking is not uncommon, but it just doesn't work here. You want to hit on as many picks as possible, and you really really want to hit on a QB. So, taking a chance on a QB that doesn't pan out doesn't kill you unless you let it. I was one of many who thought the Bills should have not been afraid to take another QB in this year's class until they felt comfortable they had an answer at the position. But, Orton is a decent bridge option who can hold things down until they find a QB of the future if necessary.

team is fine. this whole doom and gloom stuff is overblown. not like Manuel's contract is a huge albatross under the current CBA either. he was taken 16th overall. TONS of players taken in that part of the draft don't pan out.

the bigger mistake the Bills made was not taking a chance on Russell Wilson and grabbing TJ Graham over him, but they weren't the only team to write him off for being too short. They were also unfortunate in that they decided to move on from Fitzgerald during the weakest QB class in years.

if picking the wrong QB is a guaranteed ticket to getting fired, why would anyone ever draft a QB? Just keep drafting RBs and CBs in the first round like the Bills tend to do, and I guess all the experts of the world won't mind when the team misses the playoffs for 2 decades in a row.

last year is gone, this year will be, next year new regime with no first round pick - gone, so we are at 2016 at the earliest. Then you're looking at what Jacksonville is now. So, 2017, likely.

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The epitaphs seem a bit premature to me. There have been a lot of QBs who were terrible their first couple of years before having nice careers. Drew Brees was benched for Flutie in his 2nd year too.

Maybe he ends up out of the league in a couple of years like Freeman or Young, but he at least seems to have a better head than them.

the problem is his staff will be replaced, he will get a shot from the next one just like Gabbert did with Gus last year because they can't draft a replacement but to say they aren't married to him would be a great understatement.

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last year is gone, this year will be, next year new regime with no first round pick - gone, so we are at 2016 at the earliest. Then you're looking at what Jacksonville is now. So, 2017, likely.

how is this year gone? they are 2-2 and 1-0 in the division.

You think there's 0% chance Orton will play well?

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The epitaphs seem a bit premature to me. There have been a lot of QBs who were terrible their first couple of years before having nice careers. Drew Brees was benched for Flutie in his 2nd year too.

Maybe he ends up out of the league in a couple of years like Freeman or Young, but he at least seems to have a better head than them.

the problem is his staff will be replaced, he will get a shot from the next one just like Gabbert did with Gus last year because they can't draft a replacement but to say they aren't married to him would be a great understatement.

Whaley isn't going anywhere IMO. Marrone can stick around if the team wins with Orton.

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the bigger mistake the Bills made was not taking a chance on Russell Wilson and grabbing TJ Graham over him, but they weren't the only team to write him off for being too short. They were also unfortunate in that they decided to move on from Fitzgerald during the weakest QB class in years.

Foles was drafted a few picks after Wilson, too. And Cousins - who has his own question marks but I think he's better than Manuel at the moment - was an early 4th.

Hindsight is 20/20.

The Vikings coaching staff coached all three QBs mentioned in the senior bowl but they passed because they were still developing Ponder. If Manual is the not the answer, then I applaud the Bills for not having the blinders on for next years draft.

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last year is gone, this year will be, next year new regime with no first round pick - gone, so we are at 2016 at the earliest. Then you're looking at what Jacksonville is now. So, 2017, likely.

how is this year gone? they are 2-2.

You think there's 0% chance Orton will play well?

this goes a lot further than just Orton, it is the mismanagement of the qb position from their decision makers. Tells me they have no idea what they're doing. Give up next years one to get primary weapon for Manuel, all in for this year. Then don't address qb, stick with guys that are already here. Then watch those backups, who they have seen before, suck in camp and get cut. Leaving Manuel as the last man standing. But it's ok, here's their guy, and they're going to build around him. Then they bring in a vet off the street ten days before the season starts. One that caused a shouting match between Marrone and the front office. Four weeks later at 2-2 and the franchise qb is now gone for that guy that was on the street a month ago. All with an ownership change looming in the background.

If you have faith in the guys running that I think you're nuts.

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The epitaphs seem a bit premature to me. There have been a lot of QBs who were terrible their first couple of years before having nice careers. Drew Brees was benched for Flutie in his 2nd year too.

Maybe he ends up out of the league in a couple of years like Freeman or Young, but he at least seems to have a better head than them.

the problem is his staff will be replaced, he will get a shot from the next one just like Gabbert did with Gus last year because they can't draft a replacement but to say they aren't married to him would be a great understatement.

Whaley isn't going anywhere IMO. Marrone can stick around if the team wins with Orton.
you want the gm that has completely botched the most important position on the team to stick around?

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this goes a lot further than just Orton, it is the mismanagement of the qb position from their decision makers. Tells me they have no idea what they're doing. Give up next years one to get primary weapon for Manuel, all in for this year. Then don't address qb, stick with guys that are already here. Then watch those backups, who they have seen before, suck in camp and get cut. Leaving Manuel as the last man standing. But it's ok, here's their guy, and they're going to build around him. Then they bring in a vet off the street ten days before the season starts. One that caused a shouting match between Marrone and the front office. Four weeks later at 2-2 and the franchise qb is now gone for that guy that was on the street a month ago. All with an ownership change looming in the background.

If you have faith in the guys running that I think you're nuts.

There have been mistakes made for sure. However, Whaley and Marrone are really only in year 2 at this point. Whaley was aggressive on draft day with the move up for Watkins, and he was aggressive in paying Orton $5MM/year to provide insurance at QB when they realized Thad Lewis wasn't good enough. I give Marrone credit for realizing EJ was holding the team back and making the change now. I fully expected him to stubbornly stick with EJ and probably tank the season as a result. So, while they have made mistakes, it looks to me like they are at least not continuing to make the same mistake over and over again.

Bills fans are used to losing. I'd rather see a front office make mistakes of aggression like this than letting all our best players walk in free agency and drafting another RB or CB in round 1. The old regimes tried the whole plan of building depth elsewhere and trying to get by at QB with guys like Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kelly Holcomb, etc. They also failed with a 1st round QB in JP Losman, and didn't have a ton of success with Drew Bledsoe either.

I like the defense this team has right now and I think it's good enough to carry the team at times. The running game also should be solid. This team isn't a complete mess just because EJ Manuel isn't living up to his 1st round draft status early in year 2. Maybe if they were about to turn things over to Jeff Tuel, it would be. But Orton is competent and experienced and it will be interesting to see how he does.

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you want the gm that has completely botched the most important position on the team to stick around?

#1 I don't think he's botched it. We can't know that until we see how Orton does.

#2 I like most of the moves he's made, so yes. Definitely.

#3 It doesn't matter what I want. It matters what the new ownership will do, and I'm pretty sure Terry isn't going to clean house when he takes over.

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last year is gone, this year will be, next year new regime with no first round pick - gone, so we are at 2016 at the earliest. Then you're looking at what Jacksonville is now. So, 2017, likely.

how is this year gone? they are 2-2.

You think there's 0% chance Orton will play well?

this goes a lot further than just Orton, it is the mismanagement of the qb position from their decision makers. Tells me they have no idea what they're doing. Give up next years one to get primary weapon for Manuel, all in for this year. Then don't address qb, stick with guys that are already here. Then watch those backups, who they have seen before, suck in camp and get cut. Leaving Manuel as the last man standing. But it's ok, here's their guy, and they're going to build around him. Then they bring in a vet off the street ten days before the season starts. One that caused a shouting match between Marrone and the front office. Four weeks later at 2-2 and the franchise qb is now gone for that guy that was on the street a month ago. All with an ownership change looming in the background.

If you have faith in the guys running that I think you're nuts.

I'm with you. There's so many mixed messages and a lack of direction in there it ties you in knots.

But I do think the whole ownership situation has made a lot of it happen.

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