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Official Jameis Winston - football talk

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30 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

My point is what makes a "bad QB?"  He clearly has a penchant for turning it over.  No arguing that.  He also makes multiple "wow" throws every week.  The Bucs are 3rd in the NFL in points per game and 4th in the NFL in pass yards per game.  How do you call the QB who runs that offense "bad?"

But, they're 31st in points allowed.  If the defense shows up like they did yesterday they will win more than they lose because Jameis makes enough plays to cover up for the turnovers.  When they're getting scored on constantly he can't.      

He's not bad. He's worse than bad - he's tantalizingly talented yet hopelessly flawed.

You want to coach or manage the bad down to manageable levels but it isn't happening and I don't see any reason for optimism. You want him to break through his "glass ceiling" but unfortunately, he IS the glass ceiling.

Edited by habsfan
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41 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

My point is what makes a "bad QB?"  He clearly has a penchant for turning it over.  No arguing that.  He also makes multiple "wow" throws every week.  The Bucs are 3rd in the NFL in points per game and 4th in the NFL in pass yards per game.  How do you call the QB who runs that offense "bad?"

But, they're 31st in points allowed.  If the defense shows up like they did yesterday they will win more than they lose because Jameis makes enough plays to cover up for the turnovers.  When they're getting scored on constantly he can't.      

Part of the reason they give up so many points is Jameis consistently puts the defense in a bad position.

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30 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Part of the reason they give up so many points is Jameis consistently puts the defense in a bad position.

My first thought too.  Would be interesting to see where TB stacks up if you could net out points allowed off of turnovers for all 32 teams.

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22 touchdowns and 20 interceptions so far. He’s slightly better than average :lol:

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no joke, behind McCaffrey, he's the second highest scoring player overall in our league (which has no penalty for interceptions and a bonus for 300+ yard games!)

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As I said a while back, Winston is a younger Ryan Fitzpatrick.  He will get a lot of yards, a lot of scores and a lot of interceptions.  Time has proven this to be the case.  I wouldn't call him a bad or awful QB per se, but he's not a dependable one you can rely on to get anywhere after December. 

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I am at the point as a Bucs fan that...while I LOVE his ability to throw downfield...I think we can find another guy to replicate the Net result.  He can't be elite. It sucks because if he grew out of this inconsistent phase he'd be elite...and that is what we all covet.

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On 11/24/2019 at 8:33 PM, SayWhat? said:

 

 

 

 

Yeah, somehow ended up in the wrong thread.  In my defense, it’s easy to see some striking similarities between Haskins and Winston.  🤷‍♂️

It is? Do tell. 

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11 hours ago, fruity pebbles said:

Part of the reason they give up so many points is Jameis consistently puts the defense in a bad position.

Sure, that and their yards per play is the worst in the nfl, or at least it was 2 weeks ago. But ok. 

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You can slam Jameis, god knows there is enough reason to do that but please don’t come in here and be like the Bucs defense is bad because he puts them in bad situations. That is comically incorrect. Other than yesterday that  defense is straight trash no matter where the ball starts. 

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2 minutes ago, Capella said:

Hmm I stand corrected. Thought I read they were 31st. Still hovering around 6 per play though before this week which sucks.  

Better than the Ravens for example. Think you’re discounting what 27 turnovers in 11 games will do to a defense.

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20 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Better than the Ravens for example. Think you’re discounting what 27 turnovers in 11 games will do to a defense.

Lol no I am not. I’ve watched them get rocked all year. Guess it’s happening everywhere. That many YPP is pretty bad no matter what but obviously the turnovers are game losers. 

Edited by Capella

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5 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

He's Brett Favre. 

Minus the ability to win. I have no doubt that if he was ever on a playoff team, he would most certainly serve up the game losing INT in crunch time.

Edited by lod001
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Just now, lod001 said:

Minus the ability to win.

I could be misremembering Favre but it seemed like his typical pick was due to being overly aggressive. He read the situation/defence correctly, saw the risk, accurately calculated the likelihood of success and then threw it anyway because he believed he could "fit it in there". Winston doesn't seem to be doing that.

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12 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Minus the ability to win. I have no doubt that if he was ever on a playoff team, he would most certainly serve up the game losing INT in crunch time.

Out of Favre's 11 playoff appearances with Green Bay their defense ranked outside the top 15 just 3 times.  5 of those years they were top 10.  Their two Super Bowl runs they were 1st and 5th.  His playoff year with Minnesota they were 6th.

Jameis has defenses that have ranked 26th, 15th (coincidentally went 9-7), 22nd, 31st, and 31st. 

Favre's career INT% is 3.3.  Jameis is 3.3%.  Favre's TD% is 5.0.  Jameis is 4.7%.  Favre's career quarterback rating is 86.0  Jameis is 86.8.

Put a top 10 defense on the field and Jameis will win.  Roll out the 31st, and yeah, he'll go 5-11.

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18 hours ago, kodycutter said:

QB 6 in my 2QB league with -3 turnovers.    Keep chucking it Jameis.

QB 5 in my 4 pt TD, no bonus, no penalty for ints. 10 pts out of 2nd

Keep chucking it is right 

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6 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

QB 5 in my 4 pt TD, no bonus, no penalty for ints. 10 pts out of 2nd

Keep chucking it is right 

He’s not a huge rusher but he gets a few odd scrambles every game to make up for an interception or two each game as well.  He’ll always scramble for 20 yards or so and I’ll tell myself that takes an interception off the board.

Edited by VikingFrog
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1 hour ago, VikingFrog said:

He’s not a huge rusher but he gets above odd scrambles to make up for an interception or two each game as well.  He’ll always scramble for 20 yards or so and I’ll tell myself that takes an interception off the board.

Good pt

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10 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

Out of Favre's 11 playoff appearances with Green Bay their defense ranked outside the top 15 just 3 times.  5 of those years they were top 10.  Their two Super Bowl runs they were 1st and 5th.  His playoff year with Minnesota they were 6th.

Jameis has defenses that have ranked 26th, 15th (coincidentally went 9-7), 22nd, 31st, and 31st. 

Favre's career INT% is 3.3.  Jameis is 3.3%.  Favre's TD% is 5.0.  Jameis is 4.7%.  Favre's career quarterback rating is 86.0  Jameis is 86.8.

Put a top 10 defense on the field and Jameis will win.  Roll out the 31st, and yeah, he'll go 5-11.

Nice job cherry picking stats to try and compare Winston to a first ballot Hall of Famer. There is no way you actually believe that Winston is actually close to as good as Favre was. 

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6 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Nice job cherry picking stats to try and compare Winston to a first ballot Hall of Famer. There is no way you actually believe that Winston is actually close to as good as Favre was. 

Perception isn’t always reality. I certainly think Winston could be as good as Favre if he had some help.

I used those specific numbers because I was talking about each players’ ability to both make big plays AND turn it over while pointing out it’s easier to win if the defense gets a stop after the QB makes a mistake. 
 

 

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On 11/25/2019 at 8:33 AM, SayWhat? said:

it’s easy to see some striking similarities between Haskins and Winston.  🤷‍♂️

I agree 100%.  Tall, chubby, slow, weak/medium strength arm, with a similar throwing motion.  

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56 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Perception isn’t always reality. I certainly think Winston could be as good as Favre if he had some help.

I used those specific numbers because I was talking about each players’ ability to both make big plays AND turn it over while pointing out it’s easier to win if the defense gets a stop after the QB makes a mistake. 
 

 

Unfortunately for Winston we're getting into that "and if my aunt had balls" territory. Has he had a perfect ecosystem to develop in? Obviously not but those don't really exist and at this point, his sample size as a starter is large enough for most to close the book on him as a "franchise" guy or even long term stop gap solution. He is what he is and his career arc is looking more Ryan Fitzpatrick than Brett Favre.

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Weather is starting to make Winston owners nervous. I can absorb a few picks/turnovers. Actually I’ve come to expect them.

But not if bad weather equals < 200 yards and a single td or two.

If the forecast doesn’t change I may start looking at other dart throw options this weekend. But the pickings are slim.

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On 11/27/2019 at 5:55 AM, Grahamburn said:

Perception isn’t always reality. I certainly think Winston could be as good as Favre if he had some help.

I used those specific numbers because I was talking about each players’ ability to both make big plays AND turn it over while pointing out it’s easier to win if the defense gets a stop after the QB makes a mistake. 
 

 

Having arguably the best 1-2 punch at WR in the NFL isn't help? 

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1 hour ago, VikingFrog said:

Weather is starting to make Winston owners nervous. I can absorb a few picks/turnovers. Actually I’ve come to expect them.

But not if bad weather equals < 200 yards and a single td or two.

If the forecast doesn’t change I may start looking at other dart throw options this weekend. But the pickings are slim.

He’s going to have to step into his throws with the wind. No floaters. My biggest concern is them scoring with the running game when they get in the red zone. Jax was a sieve last week

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8 hours ago, Judge Smails said:

He’s going to have to step into his throws with the wind. No floaters. My biggest concern is them scoring with the running game when they get in the red zone. Jax was a sieve last week

Remember he is a capable runner himself down in the red-zone.

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19 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Having arguably the best 1-2 punch at WR in the NFL isn't help? 

They're 3rd in the NFL in points per game on offense.  I think he's utilizing the best 1-2 punch at WR just fine.  I'm referring to the 31st ranked defense in the NFL.

 

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3 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

They're 3rd in the NFL in points per game on offense.  I think he's utilizing the best 1-2 punch at WR just fine.  I'm referring to the 31st ranked defense in the NFL.

 

Or, check this out, he could help himself by not throwing so many interceptions.  He has 20 this year and is pace to throw almost 30.  I know it's easy to blame that on the defense ("he has to take chances because their defense is so bad"), but the reality is that Winston throws awful picks even in games where the defense isn't so bad.  Take Week 1.  The TB defense held the 49ers top 10 offense to 256 total yards, forced 2 turnovers, and allowed only 16 points, yet they lost the game 31-17 because Winston threw 2 pick-6's, the second of which is in the conversation for worst INT I have ever seen.  

Edited by Ghost Rider
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5 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Or, check this out, he could help himself by not throwing so many interceptions.  He has 20 this year and is pace to throw almost 30.  I know it's easy to blame that on the defense ("he has to take chances because their defense is so bad"), but the reality is that Winston throws awful picks even in games where the defense isn't so bad.  Take Week 1.  The TB defense held the 49ers top 10 offense to 256 total yards, forced 2 turnovers, and allowed only 16 points, yet they lost the game 31-17 because Winston threw 2 pick-6's, the second of which is in the conversation for worst INT I have ever seen.  

Ahh.  Cherry picking games now.  Let's take week 3 then where the defense gets lit up by a rookie QB who obviously isn't as good as everyone thought he was after torching the Bucs for 22 second half points and 336 yards.  But, hey Jameis, your 380 yards, 3 TDs, and last second drive aren't enough because the defense couldn't get a stop and the kicker hit a shank.  Jameis is the problem though...  Week 4 he took it upon himself to bail them out with 385 and 4 TDs.  The defense gave up 40 with 20 of them in the 4th quarter.

Anyway, the D is playing well now with JPP back and they have 2 wins in a row and 3 of their last 4.  It's a miracle how that happens.  Yeah, he turns it over too much, but the narrative that the defense is hung out to dry because of his turnovers falls way flat if you follow the team.

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Quote

Jameis Winston completed 21-of-33 passes for 268 scoreless yards in the Bucs' 28-11, Week 13 win over the Jaguars.

He rushed for 20 yards and lost a fumble. It was Winston's first game without a touchdown this season. Poor timing for fantasy owners needing to clinch a playoff spot. Peyton Barber scored from 15 yards out in the first quarter, the Bucs then scored a defensive touchdown, and Barber scored again from one yard away for Tampa Bay's three touchdowns. The Bucs sat on the ball in the second half, as Winston took numerous third-down sacks after Barber gained nothing on first and second downs. Winston will be a QB1 next week at home against the Colts.

 

Edited by The Frankman

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16 minutes ago, lod001 said:

He's simply awful. Why would anyone take this turnover machine next year?

He throws a ton of yards and maybe you can fix him?

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6 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

He throws a ton of yards and maybe you can fix him?

GMs and Coaches are suckers for QBs that have the physical tools but can't read defenses. Examples, Winston, Bortles, Jake Locker, every QB Elway has ever drafted, etc.

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On 11/26/2019 at 1:25 PM, lod001 said:

Minus the ability to win. I have no doubt that if he was ever on a playoff team, he would most certainly serve up the game losing INT in crunch time.

College isn’t the same thing but he did drive FSU 75 yards with 58 seconds left to win the national title. 

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7 minutes ago, Capella said:

33-45, 455 yards, 4 touchdowns and 3 picks today. Hilarious stat line. 

The main point is that his team won. This kid can be so good...if...

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3 minutes ago, Uncle Leo said:

5 TDs today... Four passing and one rushing.

They have to keep him. Otherwise you end up with some toad like Mason Rudolph leading your team. 

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1 minute ago, Capella said:

They have to keep him. Otherwise you end up with some toad like Mason Rudolph leading your team. 

He doesn't win

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