i dont think any of these guys are getting benched for a single fumble or mistake. all have performed pretty well and shown competency. its gonna be a pretty nasty 3 headed monster for a while until someone stands apart. and even then, the other guys will still have a large role. i could see tate and crowell alternating series while west plays the passing down role. it only makes sense to keep fresh guys on the field.
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Isaiah Crowell (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter georg013
- Start date
massraider
Footballguy
I think the cart's going to have three horses pulling it.
Why wouldn't it? Why would the coaches sit two talented backs, when they have three?
Chaka
Footballguy
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
Braktastic
Footballguy
I was sorry to have to drop Crowell in my re-draft league due to a short bench and bye week issues, but I'm happy to have him on the taxi squad in my dynasty league. I think the CLE running game in going to go into full-blown committee for a couple games if Tate doesn't come back and play lights out. It could be Week 8 or longer before this all gets sorted out. Perhaps the owner that picked up Crowell won't have the patience for it. Another owner just dropped West, which I thought was a bit reactionary, but, again, short benches and bye weeks strike again.
massraider
Footballguy
OK then.
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
I was simply saying I don't see any back getting all the carries. Whole lotta lottery ticket owners here already building their dream homes.
Fear The Turtle
Footballguy
Ocean view for mine, please.OK then.
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
I was simply saying I don't see any back getting all the carries. Whole lotta lottery ticket owners here already building their dream homes.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
No back ever gets all the carries. A marquee back gets maybe 70% of his teams carries. Tate is not a marquee back so the best case scenario for West/Crowell owners would be closer to 40-50% for Tate leaving the rest to be divvied up among West & Crowell.OK then.
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
I was simply saying I don't see any back getting all the carries. Whole lotta lottery ticket owners here already building their dream homes.
Using the most simplistic analysis the Browns are on pace to rush the ball 394 more times this season if that trend holds then that means between 158-197 carries for Tate leaving between 197-236 carries between Crowell and West (and incidental runs).
So what's the best case scenario for Crowell with a healthy Tate? 60% of the remaining carries so Crowell gets maybe 11 carries/game?
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
If he gets that and the goalines I'm good with that with an eye and hope they build to a bigger fantasy playoff time roleNo back ever gets all the carries. A marquee back gets maybe 70% of his teams carries. Tate is not a marquee back so the best case scenario for West/Crowell owners would be closer to 40-50% for Tate leaving the rest to be divvied up among West & Crowell.Using the most simplistic analysis the Browns are on pace to rush the ball 394 more times this season if that trend holds then that means between 158-197 carries for Tate leaving between 197-236 carries between Crowell and West (and incidental runs).OK then.
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
I was simply saying I don't see any back getting all the carries. Whole lotta lottery ticket owners here already building their dream homes.
So what's the best case scenario for Crowell with a healthy Tate? 60% of the remaining carries so Crowell gets maybe 11 carries/game?
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah, still not getting what I am saying.No back ever gets all the carries. A marquee back gets maybe 70% of his teams carries. Tate is not a marquee back so the best case scenario for West/Crowell owners would be closer to 40-50% for Tate leaving the rest to be divvied up among West & Crowell.Using the most simplistic analysis the Browns are on pace to rush the ball 394 more times this season if that trend holds then that means between 158-197 carries for Tate leaving between 197-236 carries between Crowell and West (and incidental runs).OK then.
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
I was simply saying I don't see any back getting all the carries. Whole lotta lottery ticket owners here already building their dream homes.
So what's the best case scenario for Crowell with a healthy Tate? 60% of the remaining carries so Crowell gets maybe 11 carries/game?
I don't think any back takes the lead role, ok? Not every single carry, let's call it the Forte role, ok?
I think it's a full blown RBBC. Which West owners, Tate owners, and Crowell cult members really don't want to hear.
Don't really think we disagreeing here.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Gvindy
Footballguy
A few solid hits to the head can also change your personality, as research is proving...not saying that is the case, but sure it doesn't help.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
RB Ben Tate is the starter according to Cleveland Browns RB coach Wilbert Montgomery.
The reason is he's the best RB. When asked about rookie RB Isaiah Crowell he was complimentary but said he needed to work on some things. Pressed to state what he had to work on Montgomery noted how Isaiah isn't get out of his pass protection and into his pass routes quicker and that basically he's not getting to be where he's supposed to be in his routes, it sounds like he's drifting and not sitting down in the seems where the QB is supposed to be targeting him.
Crowell only has 1 reception on the year which sums up how ineffective he's been in the passing attack.
The good news is he can develop that but the bad news is that with a proven vet like Ben Tate who had 34 receptions last year in Houston or with fellow rookie RB Terrance West showing a 'lil-more' in the passing game, 5 receptions so-far this year, Isaiah probably won't get opportunities to improve if the team has better options.
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=37401
The reason is he's the best RB. When asked about rookie RB Isaiah Crowell he was complimentary but said he needed to work on some things. Pressed to state what he had to work on Montgomery noted how Isaiah isn't get out of his pass protection and into his pass routes quicker and that basically he's not getting to be where he's supposed to be in his routes, it sounds like he's drifting and not sitting down in the seems where the QB is supposed to be targeting him.
Crowell only has 1 reception on the year which sums up how ineffective he's been in the passing attack.
The good news is he can develop that but the bad news is that with a proven vet like Ben Tate who had 34 receptions last year in Houston or with fellow rookie RB Terrance West showing a 'lil-more' in the passing game, 5 receptions so-far this year, Isaiah probably won't get opportunities to improve if the team has better options.
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=37401
crowell is basically a mustache from here on in (MUST-STASH).
He should be that guy on your bench that you hold onto BC you know that if the stars align properly he will be lightning in a bottle for your team.
I equate him to kniles Davis in that respect. Wasted bench spot until an injury or something else happens to warrant him getting more play time and BAM! Instant RB1
He should be that guy on your bench that you hold onto BC you know that if the stars align properly he will be lightning in a bottle for your team.
I equate him to kniles Davis in that respect. Wasted bench spot until an injury or something else happens to warrant him getting more play time and BAM! Instant RB1
bigbrownbag
Footballguy
I feel like Jeremy Hillm has to be in this discussion. I'm looking to mustache Crowell or Hill and can't decide between the two.
dwashington
Footballguy
As much as I like Crowell, I'd take Hill by a mile over him. Better defense and only one person to compete with for carries.
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
Good article, but all I get from it is that Tate is the most experienced. Totally true and valuable in the NFL, but I think Crowell does most with his touches going forward.
This is a fun situation to follow, but it stinks owning all 3.
amnesiac
beer is good
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/09/how_the_cleveland_browns_and_i.html
interesting insight on how he chose the Browns.
interesting insight on how he chose the Browns.
excellent article. SEC freshman of the year over Clowney. Pretty impressive pedigree.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Not sure about this. He was comparable, if not better than, Arian Foster the past few years in Houston.
Nice analysis here. Given his production in the Browns running game, he doesn't need many much more than 11 carries and 2 catches a game to be very relevant. If he continues to run so well, those carries could easily creep up to 15 per game.No back ever gets all the carries. A marquee back gets maybe 70% of his teams carries. Tate is not a marquee back so the best case scenario for West/Crowell owners would be closer to 40-50% for Tate leaving the rest to be divvied up among West & Crowell.OK then.
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
I was simply saying I don't see any back getting all the carries. Whole lotta lottery ticket owners here already building their dream homes.
Using the most simplistic analysis the Browns are on pace to rush the ball 394 more times this season if that trend holds then that means between 158-197 carries for Tate leaving between 197-236 carries between Crowell and West (and incidental runs).
So what's the best case scenario for Crowell with a healthy Tate? 60% of the remaining carries so Crowell gets maybe 11 carries/game?
And then there's the chance that Tate goes down again. KABOOM!!!
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Cheesedawg
Footballguy
Nobody with Cleveland thought Crowell would be ready to play game one. He's an UDFA and barely played in pre-season. Yet pressed into duty anyway, Crowell has not only held his own but his role has increased.
Still, I would expect Tate to be the starter again initially when he is healthy because of his experience and ability to handle all roles in the passing game. As an every-week starting RB, Crowell is a second-half proposition. I love Crowell and have the depth to sit on him but I do not see him being a dominant RB1 for awhile at the very least.
BTW at UGA, whether it was fair or not, Crowell was seen as nicked and unavailable a lot.
Still, I would expect Tate to be the starter again initially when he is healthy because of his experience and ability to handle all roles in the passing game. As an every-week starting RB, Crowell is a second-half proposition. I love Crowell and have the depth to sit on him but I do not see him being a dominant RB1 for awhile at the very least.
BTW at UGA, whether it was fair or not, Crowell was seen as nicked and unavailable a lot.
btemp
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
He's had one catch in three games.Nice analysis here. Given his production in the Browns running game, he doesn't need many much more than 11 carries and 2 catches a game to be very relevant. If he continues to run so well, those carries could easily creep up to 15 per game.No back ever gets all the carries. A marquee back gets maybe 70% of his teams carries. Tate is not a marquee back so the best case scenario for West/Crowell owners would be closer to 40-50% for Tate leaving the rest to be divvied up among West & Crowell.OK then.
They wouldn't, but Tate is the starter and will get the most work. Suggesting otherwise, in favor of Crowell or West, is putting the cart before the horse.
I was simply saying I don't see any back getting all the carries. Whole lotta lottery ticket owners here already building their dream homes.
Using the most simplistic analysis the Browns are on pace to rush the ball 394 more times this season if that trend holds then that means between 158-197 carries for Tate leaving between 197-236 carries between Crowell and West (and incidental runs).
So what's the best case scenario for Crowell with a healthy Tate? 60% of the remaining carries so Crowell gets maybe 11 carries/game?
And then there's the chance that Tate goes down again. KABOOM!!!
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Tate is one of two players in the last 25 years to have a yards/reception under 5.0 (min 30 receptions) -- he's an awful liability in the passing game.
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Dismattle
Footballguy
I linked a youtube video which shows Crowell explaining a (minor) hamstring issue, which if I recall correctly hindered practice, which resulted in less/No game time during Pre-Season....
Now the main issue, Im having trouble with being posted is the "Nobody thought Crowell would be ready" Now I realize that his Coach has said things like "Crowell wasn't suppose to be a part of the game plan (ie. RB3 in pecking order) but due to injury became relevant (so to speak).
Basically Im thinking Crowell wasn't well versed/rehearsed in exact plays that were to be run for the game. ex. A good chance that Crowell did not get one snap w/ the 1st Team on the walk-thru for Wk.1 Vets who miss walk-thrus sometimes do not play on Sundays..
I do appreciate your taking the time to include "Nobody w/ Cleveland believed ready Week 1" Im thinking he was more ready for the frist week of the Season that most experienced Vets. The true Tests, if not already will be coming out of a bye week. Seasoned Vet sometimes play lights out ball after a bye week..
p.s. NFL Offense(s) are falsely believed to start out slow during the start of an NFL Season. Im thinking a College kid has been achin to play this first game..
btw, on a downside of all things Wonderful...
Tim Gayle of the Montgomery Advertiser had a revealing interview with Hornets’ head coach Reggie Barlow about Crowell’s tenure with the Alabama State football team. It includes discussion about Crowell removing himself from games after suffering injuries some consider minor and not returning to the field for the rest of those games.
This quote is via Matt Waldman's Rookie Scouting Portfolio (imho If you play for Cash, this is probably Must Read stuff) Anyway heres the link to article: http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/12/30/isaiah-crowell/the other side of that is that college football doesn't really pay...not being smart about your body when you have a shot at the show seems foolish
Dismattle
Footballguy
True, but another flipside is kinda worth mentioning too. I believe some players play too damn hard. But on your point,, We could discuss how Crowell still doesn't have "Starting RB Monies"
I personally don't have any reason to believe this could be an issue.. Contracts are sometimes reevaluated too..
If ya take anything out of what may have been fabricated and/or takin out of context, Remember this... Todays NFL is more about Tomorrow then it is Sunday..
ex. Is it possible after several games that Crowell could be asked to man up in a possible concussion situation (remember smelling salts) Anyway, yeah sure, its possible.. However I cant even imagine such a situation being reported for the general public to be any the wiser.. If a few players were to do such a thing, it would cast off as hearsay, seeking publicity or whatnot. If the Coach throws a player under the Bus, its possible he himself is under soon enough..
I personally don't have any reason to believe this could be an issue.. Contracts are sometimes reevaluated too..
If ya take anything out of what may have been fabricated and/or takin out of context, Remember this... Todays NFL is more about Tomorrow then it is Sunday..
ex. Is it possible after several games that Crowell could be asked to man up in a possible concussion situation (remember smelling salts) Anyway, yeah sure, its possible.. However I cant even imagine such a situation being reported for the general public to be any the wiser.. If a few players were to do such a thing, it would cast off as hearsay, seeking publicity or whatnot. If the Coach throws a player under the Bus, its possible he himself is under soon enough..
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Is Crowell definitely the preference over West in dynasty? Have West and Crowell is available.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
IMO, Yes
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
There's a lot of Crowell hype right now. I have him in every one of my redraft leagues, so I'm praying for the hype to be true. He could also be a decent sell high right now. His value will drop in redraft if he doesn't get much use over the next two weeks, which is entirely possible if they try to work Tate back in quickly. I'm not shopping him, but I would listen to an offer.
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football_genus
Footballguy
Kind of reminds me of Marion Barber early in his career, when he was the goal-line back in Dallas and clearly a more talented runner than Julius Jones.
At this point I see him as a flex play with mountains of upside potential. Probably won't get to see it this year, but one can dream.
At this point I see him as a flex play with mountains of upside potential. Probably won't get to see it this year, but one can dream.
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
West hasn't looked bad. It's just that Crowell has looked better. With West's pedigree, he's going to get another chance somewhere if Cleveland doesn't pan out. I wouldn't be upset owning either on so long as I am not relying on them to produce this year.
There's always a chance that Crowell never really gets in sync with the passing game and ends up being more an Ivory type. If that happens, then West actually might still be the preferred back to own in Cleveland if he holds down the passing down job.
I'm personally betting on Crowell, but I don't fault anyone for hanging onto any of the three. West would be my third choice of the three if I had them all available. But if Tate and Crowell are already rostered, I wouldn't turn up my nose at West.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It is interesting.....and will continue to be as we watch this play out. Personally, I'm higher on West than I am on Tate. Crowell is the most talented of the three, easily. But talent doesn't always win out.
SoCalBroncoFan
Footballguy
The hype is growing. Was just offered Shane Vereen straight up for him in a PPR dynasty league.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Cleveland-Browns-Mailbag/19d28561-04da-4a1e-9446-f02a5b674a53James Yoak: Percent chance the Browns will have a 1,000 yard rusher this season?
KJ: I’ll go 54 percent. Ben Tatehas earned his starting spot, but that doesn’t mean offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan will ignore Isaiah Crowell
Mainly just taking it from this article:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/running_back_ben_tate_is_somew.html
He didn't say it verbatim, but he lists himself as questionable.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/running_back_ben_tate_is_somew.html
He didn't say it verbatim, but he lists himself as questionable.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
Ah. Good info. Thanks. Interesting how he refused to answer if he'd had any swelling in the knee. I expect him to play, but that doesn't sound good.
I found that odd as well. He could be playing coy but I'm not sure what he would gain from that.
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Van Dyman
Footballguy
The coaches probably told him not to discuss specifics like that, since there are actual NFL teams trying to figure out what to expect.
