JohnnyU

Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo

1,559 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Gandalf said:

There was talk on Boston sports radio that the pats actually believe Jimmy G is their next franchise QB and Brady has given the secret signal to the Pats that he only plans on playing one more year despite him saying publicly he wants to play until 45.  This may be why the pats want to keep Jimmy G so badly. Because Brady might be riding off into the sunset after winning the Super Bowl again this year.

Well sure, the local sportstalk radio ALWAYS knows the insider info..........................

A few days ago the buzz around Cleveland was that we were putting together a package for Cousins, then it was on rotoworld.  Needless to say, that wasn't correct. 

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Lots of wacky stuff here... 56 TDs, etc.

Belichick cares about one thing; renaming his boat "VIII Rings".  I just don't think they care about personal stats.

Brady can still run that offense better than anyone else.  I think that is true even at his advanced age. I think there is more of an emphasis on what is between the ears than being strong armed.  He says he expects to play for a bit and, historically, he says what he means. I can see another 2, 3 or even 4 years.

As a rule, the Patriots ruthlessly move on from a player when they think its time (or even a little earlier than that).  I suspect Brady is the exception to the rule.

If anything, Belichick is pragmatic.  I think New England would be a seller if there was a buyer.   Or, at least, someone who is willing to pay what New England considers market value for Garropolo.   Certainly, JG has value to the Pats, as short term insurance or a Brady replacement.  As others have mentioned, players want to play.  If someone makes a solid offer, I can see them moving JG.  If not, I can see them keeping him and seeing where the dust settles a year from now.   Who know? There could be a sudden demand for a QB in the preseason or early next season.

 

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4 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

That doesn't really make much sense. If he wanted to ride off into the sunset after winning a Super Bowl, he should have done that after this past season. There is certainly no guarantee they win again this year, and playing just one more season is not meaningful to his legacy otherwise. Sounds like typical baseless sports talk radio speculation.

No, he needs back to back rings. The other twenty aren't good enough. 

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One thing I'd like to add (can't remember if I'd seen this) is Brady's motivation to want to play his stated "into my 40's".

He fiercely loves football and cannot see him self doing anything else.  (That's from him, not from me.)

I mention this as a possible counter to those who say he might play one more year and then retire.

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Perhaps it is as simple as Belichick believing that the team will be good enough next year that they could still win it all if Brady went down and Jimmy replaced him. Belichick is a firm believer in roster depth so if he thinks he has a the favorite to win it all next year why have the least amount of depth at the most important position?

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Still think they trade him.

His value will never be higher and GMs are dumb when it comes to QB trades.

Maybe the most important reason why they would: NE thinks they are smart enough to find another Jimmy G. over the next 2-3 years.

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12 hours ago, Spike said:

One thing I'd like to add (can't remember if I'd seen this) is Brady's motivation to want to play his stated "into my 40's".

He fiercely loves football and cannot see him self doing anything else.  (That's from him, not from me.)

I mention this as a possible counter to those who say he might play one more year and then retire.

 

I think a lot of athletes might say similar things near or at the end of their careers.  It doesn't mean their mind/body/psyche combination can follow through.

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Posted (edited)

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 0:09 PM, Bronco Billy said:

 

I think a lot of athletes might say similar things near or at the end of their careers.  It doesn't mean their mind/body/psyche combination can follow through.

I live in Mass and there is a radio station that has Brady on every Monday morning of football season and so I get to hear him talk about stuff like this.  It's different hearing him talk about this.  Not saying his mind/body/psyche combination can follow through; saying he doesn't sound ANYWHERE like he wants to do anything else.  Not even remotely.  He fiercely wants to continue.

Never heard that with, for example, Peyton Manning.

Edited by Spike

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5 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

Still think they trade him.

His value will never be higher and GMs are dumb when it comes to QB trades.

Maybe the most important reason why they would: NE thinks they are smart enough to find another Jimmy G. over the next 2-3 years.

Potential franchise QBs are GOLD, and are very hard to find. Just look at all the bozos Belichick has brought in over the years.

 

Matt Casell

Ryan Mallett

Brian Hoyer

Jacoby Brissett

Garrett Gilbert

Tim Tebow

Jonathan Crompton

Jeff Rowe

Kevin O'Connell

Matt Gutierrez

Corey Bramlett

Todd Mortenson 

Doug Flutie

Rohan Davey

Damon Huard

Kliff Kingsbury

Michael Bishop

John Friesz

 

Belichick knows how hard it is to find a potential franchise QB,

Looks like he is 0 for 18 since the year 2000 in finding QBs that amounted to anything in the NFL..... He will find a way to hold onto Jimmy Garoppolo.

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45 minutes ago, Casting Couch said:

Potential franchise QBs are GOLD, and are very hard to find. Just look at all the bozos Belichick has brought in over the years.

 

Matt Casell

Ryan Mallett

Brian Hoyer

Jacoby Brissett

Garrett Gilbert

Tim Tebow

Jonathan Crompton

Jeff Rowe

Kevin O'Connell

Matt Gutierrez

Corey Bramlett

Todd Mortenson 

Doug Flutie

Rohan Davey

Damon Huard

Kliff Kingsbury

Michael Bishop

John Friesz

 

Belichick knows how hard it is to find a potential franchise QB,

Looks like he is 0 for 18 since the year 2000 in finding QBs that amounted to anything in the NFL..... He will find a way to hold onto Jimmy Garoppolo.

You seem to be missing the fact that those are all late round picks.  Scrubs to fill the roster and maybe if u are lucky develop.  None of those were the next franchise QB or drafted thinking there were.  They were all hopes and dreams of getting lucky and having a fill in incase the GOAT went down.   Plus time will tell on Brissett

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45 minutes ago, Casting Couch said:

 Doug Flutie

Looks like he is 0 for 18 since the year 2000 in finding QBs that amounted to anything in the NFL.....

The vein in my forehead is telling me to get in an Internet argument right now and I finally understand how Bruce Banner felt

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

Potential franchise QBs are GOLD, and are very hard to find. Just look at all the bozos Belichick has brought in over the years.

 

Matt Casell

Ryan Mallett

Brian Hoyer

Jacoby Brissett

Garrett Gilbert

Tim Tebow

Jonathan Crompton

Jeff Rowe

Kevin O'Connell

Matt Gutierrez

Corey Bramlett

Todd Mortenson 

Doug Flutie

Rohan Davey

Damon Huard

Kliff Kingsbury

Michael Bishop

John Friesz

 

Belichick knows how hard it is to find a potential franchise QB,

Looks like he is 0 for 18 since the year 2000 in finding QBs that amounted to anything in the NFL..... He will find a way to hold onto Jimmy Garoppolo.

Hard to believe no hall of famers came from that crop of 6th and 7th round picks, college free agents and NFL team castoffs.  Just defies the law of averages.

 

BB will find another Garoppolo. Use another 2nd rd pick next year, let him study under Brady for 2 years.

That gives Brady his 3 more seasons and NE has their next guy ready to go. 

Don't let BB and his mouth Schefter brainwash you into thinking JG is off the table. Common sense people. # kings ransom.

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On 3/17/2017 at 0:29 PM, ghostguy123 said:

The Pats may also be able to not only buy another year to make a decision, but also save some money in the process.

If you are JG right now and these are your two options, which do you take?

1- Play out this year for about a million, then get franchise tagged next year "IF" you don't get injured and "IF" you don't play bad if called upon.

or

2- Sign a 1 year extension for around 15 million with a good chunk guaranteed. 

Sign me up for option 2.  It guaranteed I am a rich man, just a little less rich than if I am fortunate enough to get the franchise tag next year, and then I am still in position for my next deal as if I took option 1. 

People are assuming all kinds of different things in this thread.  For my purposes here, I am assuming the Pats are dead set on keeping JG, and also that JG isn't a moron who goes for the most money at all costs risk be damned.

Option 1 - Backup for $1m this year / franchise tag $26m (or sign with a new team to be their starter) year 2.

Option 2 - Backup for $1m this year / backup for $15 mil year 2

 

There is NO WAY JG gives up $10m, or the chance to be a starter ... for fear he might get hurt holding a clipboard this season.

... or fear that he "doesn't play well" if the rare opportunity he had a chance to play. Why would he gamble $10m that he plays poorly? That's just absurd.

 

 

 

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I guess it isn't happening this year.

 

ESPN's Adam Schefter reiterated Sunday that a Jimmy Garoppolo trade is "not happening."

Schefter doesn't miss, and he has been adamant about this one for months. He acknowledged Garoppolo's name "continues to surface in trade rumors and speculation" amongst the media, but resolutely tweeted Garoppolo "isn't going anywhere." After Garoppolo spends another year backing up Tom Brady, perhaps the Patriots will consider franchise tagging Jimmy G next offseason and using him as a trade chip then -- assuming Brady shows no signs of decline at age 40. It's what they did with Matt Cassel after the 2009 season.

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Run It Up said:

We'll see, it still doesn't add up.

What doesn't add up?  The article above states they can tag him next season and possibly trade him then, or keep him if Brady shows signs of decline.  I think it's a good move by the Patriots to not trade him now.
 

Edited by JohnnyU

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

I guess it isn't happening this year.

 

ESPN's Adam Schefter reiterated Sunday that a Jimmy Garoppolo trade is "not happening."

Schefter doesn't miss, and he has been adamant about this one for months. He acknowledged Garoppolo's name "continues to surface in trade rumors and speculation" amongst the media, but resolutely tweeted Garoppolo "isn't going anywhere." After Garoppolo spends another year backing up Tom Brady, perhaps the Patriots will consider franchise tagging Jimmy G next offseason and using him as a trade chip then -- assuming Brady shows no signs of decline at age 40. It's what they did with Matt Cassel after the 2009 season.

 Didn't realize they could do that. Well that's certainly plausible then. 

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2 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

What doesn't add up?  The article above states they can tag him next season and possibly trade him then, or keep him if Brady shows signs of decline.  I think it's a good move by the Patriots to not trade him now.
 

Three options imo.

1. Brady will play for another half decade, in this instance they cant afford to roster both players over that time period. Jimmy will be either traded this week or franchised and traded in 2018 or 2019.

2. Common sense be damned they will roster two QBs for at least one season and Brady will be traded in 2018 or 2019.

3. They will roster both indefinitely, possibly 3 to 4 years - beyond ridiculous.

 

From what ive heard, theyve (the patriots) bet against Brady every year since 2012, but the internal tests they use to measure decline have actually suggested Brady is getting better. Outside of serious injury i really dont see Brady retiring or agreeing to play for another team in the next 5 years.

Value wise it makes very little sense to hold an asset like Jimmy if you can actually receive your asking price, the reports that they wont move him for anything even if offered just doesnt add up. Its a much better class to try to move him as this QB class is pretty ####. I believe Jimmy is a franchise qb, but the budget just doesnt add up he cant exist beyond 2017 on the same roster as Brady - with the one exception being that if Bradys extension they are working on will pay Brady peanuts in 2018. 

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It makes a lot of sense for the Pats to keep him.  If JG does not play one snap this year it's not like teams just all of a sudden are going to lose interest in him.  The Pats can tag and trade him next offseason if they choose, and they will likely have takers.  Will they get as much as they can now?  Of course not, but they will still get a nice amount.  I can see around 75% of what they can get now. 

Or, they actually NEED him this year which would be an obvious benefit to keeping him, with the possibility something happens with Brady and he is their future.

A lot of you seem focused on "keeping two QBs at starter money or lose him for nothing" when they can still trade him next year.  The only issue (that I mentioned a while ago) is whether or not they will have some other player they need to franchise next year.

 

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I happen to think they will hold on to JG because they don't think this is a very good draft. I thought I read somewhere that NE only has 50 players on their draft board as guys they feel would fit in their system. 

Keeping JG for another year has some potential issues. If Brady plays the entire season and JG doesn't play at all. Garoppolo's value would likely drop some as it would have been a long time since he played. 

Going the other direction, if JG does play but doesn't do well, then his value drops quite a bit. It would be doubtful if teams would be lining up to trade for him, especially if the only way NE could keep him was to franchise him. 

So the only way JG's trade value stays as high as it is now is if he plays this year and plays well. 

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11 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

I guess it isn't happening this year.

 

ESPN's Adam Schefter reiterated Sunday that a Jimmy Garoppolo trade is "not happening."

Schefter doesn't miss, and he has been adamant about this one for months. He acknowledged Garoppolo's name "continues to surface in trade rumors and speculation" amongst the media, but resolutely tweeted Garoppolo "isn't going anywhere." After Garoppolo spends another year backing up Tom Brady, perhaps the Patriots will consider franchise tagging Jimmy G next offseason and using him as a trade chip then -- assuming Brady shows no signs of decline at age 40. It's what they did with Matt Cassel after the 2009 season.

 

Tagging Garappolo next year is really to NE's disadvantage.  Other teams will know NE has to move a QB, which decreases their leverage.  Unless they know something about Brady that is not getting out and all the bluster about playing 5 more years is a smoke screen.

 

I think NE overplayed their hand, unless they somehow salvage a trade this year, which would mean it would likely have to be sooner rather than later.

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31 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Tagging Garappolo next year is really to NE's disadvantage.  Other teams will know NE has to move a QB, which decreases their leverage.  Unless they know something about Brady that is not getting out and all the bluster about playing 5 more years is a smoke screen.

 

I think NE overplayed their hand, unless they somehow salvage a trade this year, which would mean it would likely have to be sooner rather than later.

If there's competition for him - and there will be - their leverage won't decrease that much.

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20 million on a back-up?

Okay if your roster doesn't have much talent. Otherwise you will lose players in that type of scenario. That's 1/8th of your salary cap.

Teams have an incredibly hard time just keeping an average back-up QB because of salary/negotiation implications.

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Patriots stand to receive the Browns 1.11 plus more (maybe a 2nd?) if they were to trade JG on draft day.

A "tag and trade" next year would likely net them a 2nd. 

 

Just seems like a ton to give up for someone that likely will never see the field this season.

The only reason I could see them not trading JG this year is that they don't expect Brady to play beyond this season (2017).

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2 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Tagging Garappolo next year is really to NE's disadvantage.  Other teams will know NE has to move a QB, which decreases their leverage.  Unless they know something about Brady that is not getting out and all the bluster about playing 5 more years is a smoke screen.

 

Plus trading him on a franchise tag salary makes him less desirable as the counterparty has to either pay him the franchise tag salary for a QB or at least work that figure into his long term contract. If a team acquires him now they can either let him play at his small contract and franchise him or sign him long term if it works out or has the leverage of the cheap one year salary if they want to sign him long term right away. 

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13 hours ago, Run It Up said:

We'll see, it still doesn't add up.

I feel like everyone is overanalyzing this one. It makes all the sense in the world if Belichick believes the team is strong enough to win a SB title if Brady gets hurt and Garappolo steps in. I feel like it is a simple as that in terms of not trading him now. They certainly seem to be loading up this year and depth has always been their mantra, why wouldn't they seek great depth in the most important position on the field?

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4 minutes ago, Baloney Sandwich said:

I feel like everyone is overanalyzing this one. It makes all the sense in the world if Belichick believes the team is strong enough to win a SB title if Brady gets hurt and Garappolo steps in. I feel like it is a simple as that in terms of not trading him now. They certainly seem to be loading up this year and depth has always been their mantra, why wouldn't they seek great depth in the most important position on the field?

The argument against this is that they could (allegedly) get a king's ransom for him now and may not get anywhere near that in the future, Many people are looking into their crystal balls and see Brady playing very well, for NE, for 5 more years. So they don't see the utility in keeping JG as he won't want to stay here year after year and not play.

The other speculation I have seen is that NE has their eye on someone that they would want, but would need a Top 5 pick this year to land him. Trading JG to CLE for their 12th pick would not get them the player that they covet. It doesn't sound like there are a lot of players pegged to be picked in the first round that the Pats are all that interested in, which is likely contributing to them standing pat with JG.

Some of the media speculation is that NE considers JG a franchise QB and won't let him go. If that truly is the case, then at some point they will have to choose between Brady and Garoppolo, as it is unlikely that they will want to pay for two franchise QBs being on the same team.

Part of the logic in keeping JG is that a lot can happen in a year. Brady could get hurt and they need JG. NE could win another title and TB12 retires. JG could be forced into playing and stink up the joint. TB12 could play and look like Peyton on his last legs. Collectively, we are looking at a snapshot of how things look TODAY, and the situation could change dramatically a year from now.

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Posted (edited)

I have no clue what is going on here and would not be surprised by anything but it could be as simple (and has been reported) as we have a 40 year QB and a back-up we love...let's play 2017 and we'll figure things out after the season...you are doomed in the NFL without a QB and the Pats now have two (as well as a third they are developing)...if they are in-fact totally sold on Jimmy G. maybe they don't want to make a decision on him until they 100% have to due to Brady's age...think about it...if Brady went down this year (and it was significant) which would be more valuable...the draft picks they acquired or Jimmy G...

All I really know about this situation is no one has more on the line than Adam Shefter...he has been crazy adamant that no deal will happen...

 

Edited by Boston
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1 hour ago, Boston said:

All I really know about this situation is no one has more on the line than Adam Shefter...he has been crazy adamant that no deal will happen...

 

After being the first one to suggest they would net a 1st and 4th.

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12 minutes ago, Run It Up said:

After being the first one to suggest they would net a 1st and 4th.

I was just thinking that as well, wasn't he the one that started all of this in the first place.

 

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3 minutes ago, Hu-Tang Clan said:

I was just thinking that as well, wasn't he the one that started all of this in the first place.

 

No matter what happens, Schefter can always say the team changed its mind. He's reported JG potentially being on the market, the projected cost, and that JG isn't going anywhere. One of those will probably be right.

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Originally Schefter was asked by some radio personalities what he thought JG would fetch in a trade and he speculated a 1st and a 4th. Then the story took on a life of its own with media speculation and fan theories and spun out of control before it finally died down. It's back in this thread somewhere around the beginning of January where it was clarified, IIRC.

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

I have no clue what is going on here and would not be surprised by anything but it could be as simple (and has been reported) as we have a 40 year QB and a back-up we love...let's play 2017 and we'll figure things out after the season...you are doomed in the NFL without a QB and the Pats now have two (as well as a third they are developing)...if they are in-fact totally sold on Jimmy G. maybe they don't want to make a decision on him until they 100% have to due to Brady's age...think about it...if Brady went down this year (and it was significant) which would be more valuable...the draft picks they acquired or Jimmy G...

 

It really is a no-brainer and New England may be crooked but they ain't stupid.

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When pick #12 goes by and no trade has been made, then I will believe he is unavailable.

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1 hour ago, Buckna said:

Originally Schefter was asked by some radio personalities what he thought JG would fetch in a trade and he speculated a 1st and a 4th. Then the story took on a life of its own with media speculation and fan theories and spun out of control before it finally died down. It's back in this thread somewhere around the beginning of January where it was clarified, IIRC.

This.

It was a random speculation on sports talk radio.

 

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20 minutes ago, massraider said:

This.

It was a random speculation on sports talk radio.

 

....and I'm sure NE was all too happy for the ink.  Sometimes I feel like Scheffter is in bed with NE.

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Sometimes I feel like Scheffter is in bed with NE.

Not shocking at all, the fixation is palpable.

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I really can not believe that some of you here feel that JG is a franchise type of QB.  Seriously??  A 1st and 4th?  lol WOW, stop drinking that Kool-Aid.  No way in hell would I give up more than a 3rd for JG so in other words, I PASS.

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1 hour ago, CanadianNFLJunkie said:

I really can not believe that some of you here feel that JG is a franchise type of QB.  Seriously??  A 1st and 4th?  lol WOW, stop drinking that Kool-Aid.  No way in hell would I give up more than a 3rd for JG so in other words, I PASS.

Ok, just let NEP know which NFL team you work for so they don't call you.

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