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Is Joe Biden inappropriate? (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant said:
[scooter] said:
Hopefully the end result is that the bitter liberals splinter off and form their own party, while the moderates drop their Pro Choice absolutism and form a new party with the never Trumpers.
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To make sure I understand you, you think there will be two new parties formed?
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I think there should be two new parties. But I'm basing that from the perspective of an ex-Republican who never wanted anything to do with joining the Democratic Party -- and I suspect that there are many "never Trumpers" (and moderate Republicans) who feel the same way.

In theory, the best outcome would be for liberals to take over the Democratic Party, causing centrists to drop out and form a new coalition with moderate Republicans. But that scenario is at least 20 years from happening. (Partly due to demographics, partly due to Bernie's refusal to join the Democratic party, which just encourages his supporters to be bitter and skeptical.)

 
NCCommish said:
[scooter] said:
"Hillary did it to herself" is a convenient narrative which absolves Bernie supporters of all responsibility, guilt, and foresight.

(It's also sadly ironic that the phrase just has twinge of slut-shaming to it. ("She shouldn't have worn that outfit!")

But just as with the "Lock Her Up" crowd, you don't have Hillary to kick around anymore. So when you drag down the Democratic party in 2020 (like you did in 2016) you will not be able to pin the blame on the boogeyman anymore.

Liberals are destroying the infrastructure of the only political party that comes close to helping them achieve their goals, and it will absolutely lead to another Trump win. Hopefully the end result is that the bitter liberals splinter off and form their own party, while the moderates drop their Pro Choice absolutism and form a new party with the never Trumpers.
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Ah yes the thoroughly corrupted Democratic party which long ago forgot the working class in their efforts to be just a little less conservative than the GOP is a bright shining beacon that deserves no criticism. You know who sounds bitter here? A hint it isn't the liberal in the conversation 
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Not sure who you're aiming that at, because I agree that the Democratic party is corrupted and has forgotten the working class.

But I also think that the "working class" is a disappearing demographic, and Democrats (whether they be liberal or moderate) have failed to adjust their strategy to accommodate a changing world. Hillary had a losing strategy, but so did Bernie. Hillary could have fixed her weaknesses with a few extra hours in Michigan or Wisconsin. But there was nothing Bernie could have done to prevent the anti-socialists from coming out in force in several purple states that were won by Hillary.

 
[scooter] said:
Not sure who you're aiming that at, because I agree that the Democratic party is corrupted and has forgotten the working class.

But I also think that the "working class" is a disappearing demographic, and Democrats (whether they be liberal or moderate) have failed to adjust their strategy to accommodate a changing world. Hillary had a losing strategy, but so did Bernie. Hillary could have fixed her weaknesses with a few extra hours in Michigan or Wisconsin. But there was nothing Bernie could have done to prevent the anti-socialists from coming out in force in several purple states that were won by Hillary.
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Exit polling says different.  Polling today on acceptance of the socialist tag suggest things  have changed on that front as well. Further everyone is a socialist is finally catching up with the GOP. That dog don't hunt like it used to.

 
[scooter] said:
"Hillary did it to herself" is a convenient narrative which absolves Bernie supporters of all responsibility, guilt, and foresight.

(It's also sadly ironic that the phrase just has twinge of slut-shaming to it. ("She shouldn't have worn that outfit!"))

But just as with the "Lock Her Up" crowd, you don't have Hillary to kick around anymore. So when you drag down the Democratic party in 2020 (like you did in 2016) you will not be able to pin the blame on the boogeyman anymore.

Liberals are destroying the infrastructure of the only political party that comes close to helping them achieve their goals, and it will absolutely lead to another Trump win. Hopefully the end result is that the bitter liberals splinter off and form their own party, while the moderates drop their Pro Choice absolutism and form a new party with the never Trumpers.
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Why should Bernie supporters bear the guilt and responsibility of putting Trump in the WH?  That should fall squarely on the people who voted for Trump.

 
NCCommish said:
[scooter] said:
Not sure who you're aiming that at, because I agree that the Democratic party is corrupted and has forgotten the working class.

But I also think that the "working class" is a disappearing demographic, and Democrats (whether they be liberal or moderate) have failed to adjust their strategy to accommodate a changing world. Hillary had a losing strategy, but so did Bernie. Hillary could have fixed her weaknesses with a few extra hours in Michigan or Wisconsin. But there was nothing Bernie could have done to prevent the anti-socialists from coming out in force in several purple states that were won by Hillary.
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Exit polling says different.  Polling today on acceptance of the socialist tag suggest things  have changed on that front as well. Further everyone is a socialist is finally catching up with the GOP. That dog don't hunt like it used to.
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The exit polls for Michigan and Pennsylvania indicate that there was about a 1-3% cross-party shift in Trump's favor, so perhaps it's safe to say that Bernie would have beaten Trump in those states. But there was an opposite 1-2% shift in Wisconsin and North Carolina, and Bernie was crushed by Hillary in the Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, New Jersey and New York primaries.

So even if you give Michigan and Pennsylvania to the blue column, that's still 270 electoral votes for Trump with little indication of Bernie being able to flip any other states without losing a purple state.

 
[scooter] said:
Which would justify everything the DNC did.

Bernie Sanders is not a member of the Democratic Party. The DNC made a huge mistake in 2016 when they allowed outsiders to run in their primaries -- not only did he beat up Hillary so badly that it weakened her chances against Trump, but he encouraged the whole "rigged primary" narrative which left millennials with a bitter taste in their mouth. Some of them will be forever turned off from ever joining the party. Plus, the whole thing emboldened Trump's own "rigged election" mantra. And now you've got bots and faux-Sanders-sympathizers pouring gasoline on the fire which will further divide the party all the way through November 2020.

I would laugh at this fiasco if Trump weren't president right now. But I would like Trump to lose in 2020, and since the Republicans are too scared to stand up to him in the primaries, my only option is the disjointed traveshamockery known as the Democratic Party. You guys are doing everything in your power to screw this up again.
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You guys?  :confused:      I have never been a Bernie fan.

 
zftcg said:
So how does this work? Does posting the Stars and Bars upside down mean that you are patriotic?  :lol:
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I dont know about that,   As a person from the south, it pisses me off that the flag has been hilacked by racist who claim "Heritage not Hate" and don't even know they the flag upside down. 

 
Dickies said:
One of my local talk radio hosts said he has met Biden a few times and every time he has met him he is very affectionate to everyone around him.  He thought that was just how he is and didn't see anything wrong with it at the time.  He added that while he didn't see anything inappropriate that we also need to listen to the people who were made to feel uncomfortable.  There is a big difference between what Biden did and what Franken did.  There is also a big difference between Franken and guys like Weinstein and Trump. 

I'm inclined to give Biden a pass with the hope that he has learned from this, but it also probably disqualifies him from any chance of winning the presidency.
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While I agree in principle, the problem there it is anyone's guess what makes this person or that person uncomfortable. One of Biden's recent accusers actually said, "I thought he was going to kiss me," so she called him out for something he didn't, but she thought he was going to do.  It's crazy. 

And I definitely agree with the "Keep your hands to yourself" motto, but then who knows if someone will get uncomfortable if you are in a crowded room and you are standing too close to them.  "He raised his hands to cover his mouth for a sneeze and for a second I thought he was going to fondle my breasts."  Sounds funny, but it's only a matter of time before stories with quotes like that hit the daily news feed. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
While I agree in principle, the problem there it is anyone's guess what makes this person or that person uncomfortable. One of Biden's recent accusers actually said, "I thought he was going to kiss me," so she called him out for something he didn't, but she thought he was going to do.  It's crazy. 

And I definitely agree with the "Keep your hands to yourself" motto, but then who knows if someone will get uncomfortable if you are in a crowded room and you are standing too close to them.  "He raised his hands to cover his mouth for a sneeze and for a second I thought he was going to fondle my breasts."  Sounds funny, but it's only a matter of time before stories with quotes like that hit the daily news feed. 
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I have this totally crazy idea that a good way to tell if you've made someone uncomfortable is if they tell you you've made them uncomfortable, and that when they do that you should accept their feelings as valid and not dismiss them or accuse them of being oversensitive.

Also, is it really that hard to figure out that if you come up behind someone you barely know and kiss her on the back of the head, that might not be welcome?

Finally, the woman who said that about Biden wasn't saying he sexually harassed her because she thought he was going to kiss her. She was saying he violated her personal space in a way that reminded her of someone who was about to kiss her.

I'll keep repeating this over and over because people don't seem to understand it: All of the women have said there was nothing sexual about what Biden did, and they don't think he assaulted or harassed them, just that he behaved inappropriately.

 
zftcg said:
I have this totally crazy idea that a good way to tell if you've made someone uncomfortable is if they tell you you've made them uncomfortable, and that when they do that you should accept their feelings as valid and not dismiss them or accuse them of being oversensitive.

Also, is it really that hard to figure out that if you come up behind someone you barely know and kiss her on the back of the head, that might not be welcome?

Finally, the woman who said that about Biden wasn't saying he sexually harassed her because she thought he was going to kiss her. She was saying he violated her personal space in a way that reminded her of someone who was about to kiss her.

I'll keep repeating this over and over because people don't seem to understand it: All of the women have said there was nothing sexual about what Biden did, and they don't think he assaulted or harassed them, just that he behaved inappropriately.
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Kissing isn't sexual?  Then what, exactly, was the inappropriate behavior?

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Kissing isn't sexual?  Then what, exactly, was the inappropriate behavior?
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Um, do you kiss your mom? Is that sexual?

Anyway, the inappropriate behavior was violating their personal space (and also taking advantage of the power dynamic between them). That makes it sound like some sinister plot, which I don't think it was. I would be a lot less bothered by all this if Biden had just said, "I thought I was just being affectionate, but now I see it made some people uncomfortable. I'll be more careful in the future." Even with his relatively tone-deaf response, I don't think it's a mortal sin. I think it's more just a reflection of him being behind the times, and it reminds me of why I wasn't all that excited about him in the first place.

 
zftcg said:
Um, do you kiss your mom? Is that sexual?

Anyway, the inappropriate behavior was violating their personal space (and also taking advantage of the power dynamic between them). That makes it sound like some sinister plot, which I don't think it was. I would be a lot less bothered by all this if Biden had just said, "I thought I was just being affectionate, but now I see it made some people uncomfortable. I'll be more careful in the future." Even with his relatively tone-deaf response, I don't think it's a mortal sin. I think it's more just a reflection of him being behind the times, and it reminds me of why I wasn't all that excited about him in the first place.
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You're comparing Biden kissing these women to someone kissing their mother?  Do I have that correct?

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Yeah I always awkwardly kiss women and it's totally not sexual or creepy.  

That said, what is the inappropriate part if the kissing is just being affectionate.
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:shrug: I wasn't there but Flores was and she said she found it creepy and inappropriate but not sexual. I'll take her word for it.

HellToupee said:
Here’s grab ### Joe planting a couple on the lips

Diddle class Joe
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I was right, that does look ickier. But I don't know the details or how the woman felt about it, so I'll reserve judgment. In the case of Flores and Lappos, they said it made them uncomfortable and I don't have any reason to doubt them.

 
From the "What about all the women he didn't molest?" department: I once spent a few hours in a small room with Senator Biden and about 20 other people and didn't see him do anything socially awkward or inappropriate.

From the "Funny things I saw on Twitter" department: (I don't remember the exact quote so I'm paraphrasing) Million-dollar idea -- invent a shampoo that smells like criminal justice reform ... for women who wish to repel Joe Biden.

 
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Hugs may be needed for optimal physical and emotional health.  He was simply forwarding little known provisions of Obamacare.

 
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GoBirds said:
This is the first I’ve looked at those, dude is a creep. 
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He’s always been like this.  I don’t know if there is malice in it though.  I wouldn’t impact my vote, but I can see why it might impact the votes of others.

 
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**** Vitale is always getting too close to his broadcasting partner and constantly puts his hands on their shoulder while talking.  Is he creepy?  Should he be kicked off the air?  I think one should be allowed to smell another's hair while kissing them on the head. You know, kind of like dogs who smell another dog's butt to get to know them :)

 
[scooter] said:
The exit polls for Michigan and Pennsylvania indicate that there was about a 1-3% cross-party shift in Trump's favor, so perhaps it's safe to say that Bernie would have beaten Trump in those states. But there was an opposite 1-2% shift in Wisconsin and North Carolina, and Bernie was crushed by Hillary in the Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, New Jersey and New York primaries.

So even if you give Michigan and Pennsylvania to the blue column, that's still 270 electoral votes for Trump with little indication of Bernie being able to flip any other states without losing a purple state.
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I live in NC I can only go by personal observation.  And I know a lot of Trump voters who wanted to vote Bernie but were never voting Hillary. We also gave the governor's mansion to the Democrats.

 
JohnnyU said:
**** Vitale is always getting too close to his broadcasting partner and constantly puts his hands on their shoulder while talking.  Is he creepy?  Should he be kicked off the air?  I think one should be allowed to smell another's hair while kissing them on the head. You know, kind of like dogs who smell another dog's butt to get to know them :)
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He's full on mouth to mouth with chance of tongue in some of those pics.  In what world is any of that appropriate.   Biden is definitely creepy.

 
I think this could indicate a larger problem.    If he is so unaware of a woman's boundaries now, who is to say he hasn't taken it further before?  Lots of times this ends up just being the tip of the iceberg.

What's the point when it goes from being "creepy" to assault?  

 
supermike80 said:
I think this could indicate a larger problem.    If he is so unaware of a woman's boundaries now, who is to say he hasn't taken it further before?  Lots of times this ends up just being the tip of the iceberg.

What's the point when it goes from being "creepy" to assault?  
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He has been in the spotlight a long time. It seems like there would've been rumblings the last 2 times he ran. Pretty much all we've heard on this front is he is overly familiar and not good at recognizing personal space. Been hearing that for a long time.  May be more but I'm guessing this is about the worst of it.

 
NCCommish said:
He has been in the spotlight a long time. It seems like there would've been rumblings the last 2 times he ran. Pretty much all we've heard on this front is he is overly familiar and not good at recognizing personal space. Been hearing that for a long time.  May be more but I'm guessing this is about the worst of it.
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So why did these come out now?   One response to what was because she felt intimidated by the VP office.  I would assume that reason might carry over into something more inappropriate.

 
supermike80 said:
So why did these come out now?   One response to what was because she felt intimidated by the VP office.  I would assume that reason might carry over into something more inappropriate.
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The irony of Biden's current situation is that it's not really a MeToo story, but it probably wouldn't have come out if not for the MeToo movement.

 
supermike80 said:
So why did these come out now?   One response to what was because she felt intimidated by the VP office.  I would assume that reason might carry over into something more inappropriate.
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Because women feel more empowered to speak up now. Even these ladies have said this wasn't assault it was inappropriate and unwanted.  

 
supermike80 said:
I think this could indicate a larger problem.    If he is so unaware of a woman's boundaries now, who is to say he hasn't taken it further before?  Lots of times this ends up just being the tip of the iceberg.

What's the point when it goes from being "creepy" to assault?  
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Currently it's s point beyond bragging about assaulting women. 

 
supermike80 said:
I think this could indicate a larger problem.    If he is so unaware of a woman's boundaries now, who is to say he hasn't taken it further before?  Lots of times this ends up just being the tip of the iceberg.

What's the point when it goes from being "creepy" to assault?  
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Up to 7 women now....Might be more than just the tip

 
Is this drawing a new line in the #metoo movement?  They are saying these women are "coming forward" and "telling their story".  Their story is he held their hand too long or smelled their hair.  Kissing kids on the lips and rubbing foreheads on theirs.  All weird stuff but are really going to group this with sexual assault?  If so, I think it belittles women real victims.

 
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Arizona Ron said:
Is this drawing a new line in the #metoo movement?  They are saying these women are "coming forward" and "telling their story".  Their story is he held their hand too long or smelled their hair.  Kissing kids on the lips and rubbing foreheads on theirs.  All weird stuff but are really going to group this with sexual assault?  If so, I think it belittles women real victims.
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The women who came forward have already said this wasn't assault but it was a violation of their personal space. They didn't want to be touched, they were touched, it wasn't invited, it felt forced and they were touched by somebody they didn't feel like they could say anything about so it made them feel powerless. So yes it's not assault it's still not good.

 
NCCommish said:
The women who came forward have already said this wasn't assault but it was a violation of their personal space. They didn't want to be touched, they were touched, it wasn't invited, it felt forced and they were touched by somebody they didn't feel like they could say anything about so it made them feel powerless. So yes it's not assault it's still not good.
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So what, exactly, would be assault?

 
NCCommish said:
The women who came forward have already said this wasn't assault but it was a violation of their personal space. They didn't want to be touched, they were touched, it wasn't invited, it felt forced and they were touched by somebody they didn't feel like they could say anything about so it made them feel powerless. So yes it's not assault it's still not good.
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Is it still OK for political candidates to kiss babies?

 
NCCommish said:
I live in NC I can only go by personal observation.  And I know a lot of Trump voters who wanted to vote Bernie but were never voting Hillary. We also gave the governor's mansion to the Democrats.
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I refused to vote for Hillary (Johnson voter :ph34r: ) and the Rep candidate for governor (Cooper voter).  Would have voted for Bernie and most any other Rep candidate for governor besides the one on the ballot.  If you're corrupt, I'm not voting for you regardless of your team.

 
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