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Taking in a child from a troubled home NOV '23 UPDATE: Epilogue (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MikeIke
- Start date
msommer
Footballguy
A team sport may very well help. Someone to be together with about something. Someone that depend on her contribution and the reverse.
GL, GB
Rattle and Hum
Footballguy
sbonomo
Footballguy
I was just thinking of you last night which made me find this thread. My girlfriend finally laid down boundaries with her parents that they either stop spending time with her ex husband (very long story but divorced for over 14 years and kids are all 18-23) or she was done with inviting them to events where it was possible he could attend. They responded to her that she was causing too much drama and that they didn't want to get involved (basically saying that they would continue to hang out with him at the expense of seeing her). I first shared my personal experience of being adopted. I know full well that my adopted parents put me first regardless of anything. I then shared your story (always strange putting an i-friend story in context so i fudged it a bit) about how parents that actually want to do right by their kids even when they are not blood. It breaks my heart to hear that you are having so many challenges. I have followed this story since day one and cannot tell you how much i admire you and the effort you have put forward. Keep up the good fight GB. You have a lot of people pulling for you here.
MikeIke
Footballguy
I absolute agree, and since I have a borderline wife I should know. However, no respectable psychiatrist would diagnose borderline in a 12 year old. It's just out of bounds for someone so young.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Drunken knight
Footballguy
MikeIke
Footballguy
So, Padme has been home for 4 days now. Things have been OK - not great, but not terrible. Padme does not to me seem suicidal, in fact she's rather insulted that we've locked away all the medication and knives. She claims she's not a danger to herself or others. I believe her.
However, before this all happened I didn't think she was a danger to herself and I've been proven wrong by her actions. So what I think may not mean much, and we'll keep the knives and medication locked up as the hospital prescribed. They suggested 3 weeks of constant supervision and all medicine, knives, ropes, cords, etc on lock down. She's basically on suicide watch in my home. I bought several new locks for my cabinets and now anything sharp or medicinal is locked away. It's REALLY annoying when I am cooking dinner and need scissors or a knife.
I don't think she's a suicide risk. I think she did what she did earlier not recognizing the consequences. I think that my and my wife's reaction has shown her that we DO take her seriously and our subsequent actions proved to her that we're not going to abandon her.
Her school does not want her back next year. She's been a behavioral problem all year, my wife works in the school and is embarrassed to call Padme her 'daughter.' So for next year we're going to send her back to neighborhood public school. I'm not happy about that because it's a crap school, but Padme is happy because she has friends there. My wife is happy because Padme won't be at her school causing trouble.
So, this is my update for today. Nothing earth-shattering - just slow progress. I don't know how things will end up. I just know what things are at this moment.
Thank you, FFA, for serving as my sounding board.
However, before this all happened I didn't think she was a danger to herself and I've been proven wrong by her actions. So what I think may not mean much, and we'll keep the knives and medication locked up as the hospital prescribed. They suggested 3 weeks of constant supervision and all medicine, knives, ropes, cords, etc on lock down. She's basically on suicide watch in my home. I bought several new locks for my cabinets and now anything sharp or medicinal is locked away. It's REALLY annoying when I am cooking dinner and need scissors or a knife.
I don't think she's a suicide risk. I think she did what she did earlier not recognizing the consequences. I think that my and my wife's reaction has shown her that we DO take her seriously and our subsequent actions proved to her that we're not going to abandon her.
Her school does not want her back next year. She's been a behavioral problem all year, my wife works in the school and is embarrassed to call Padme her 'daughter.' So for next year we're going to send her back to neighborhood public school. I'm not happy about that because it's a crap school, but Padme is happy because she has friends there. My wife is happy because Padme won't be at her school causing trouble.
So, this is my update for today. Nothing earth-shattering - just slow progress. I don't know how things will end up. I just know what things are at this moment.
Thank you, FFA, for serving as my sounding board.
Thanks Buddy. Rock on.
MikeIke
Footballguy
Yes, absolutely. That's what I'm so afraid of - I might develop a terrific relationship with this girl. I think she respects me, she does what I say with minimal argument. But, throw my wife into the mix and everything goes to hell.
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MikeIke
Footballguy
Padme REALLY wants to start training in kickboxing. I'm kind of frightened, because if she's trained she'll be an unstoppable force. This girl is already physically very strong. She's 4'10", 114# and solid as a rock. Teach her the the proper techniques and she'd he deadly.
Hmm... Maybe a UFC contact is in the future...
Hmm... Maybe a UFC contact is in the future...
Drunken knight
Footballguy
my apologies, but did we get details of the session with padme and your wife. what was said? what triggered the outburst? therapist's interpretation?
MikeIke
Footballguy
Ugh... Nothing really came out of that because the counselor's notes didn't detail the extent of aggression that Padme was showing.
Padme was in the psych ward for 7 days and saw 3 different therapists. That's part of the problem. The therapist that saw that big outburst only saw her that one particular day. And her notes into the file only said "clinician noticed a marked difference in patient's demeanor." Very generic, and I made sure to go in to the hospital the next day to give more details.
I met with the psychiatrist the next day and when looking at the notes she said "That means Padme got mad." So the hospital knows Padme reacted strongly but no consequence seems to have come from it.
I can't say I'm happy with the psychological care she received in the hospital. However I understand that the ward she was assigned to is there to mitigate immediate risks. Is she a danger to herself or others? No? OK, discharge her.
I would have preferred a longer term in the psych ward with a solid diagnosis. Psychotic? Dissociative Personality? Oppositional Disorder? Depression? Those all have prescribed treatment regimens that we could follow.
What we got was basically "we don't think she's going to try and kill herself again. Take her home." I don't think that's what she needed. But, that's USA health care as it stands right now.
I'm frustrated. I brought this girl into my house to help her and instead she's tearing my family apart.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
She is a suicide risk unless she gets serious treatment. It may not be to intentionally kill herself but to do harm to herself to get attention when she feels she isn't, say like you are showing affection to your wife that she may feel is a rival.
I gave the example of my former coworker friend who is 16 and has tried hanging herself 3 times going into cardiac arrest and coma. This was after she seemed happy to her family. One time was with a sheet. People do get creative. She is home being babysat by her sister, again. The sister is now sleeping in her room to catch the middle of the night attempts. This is their life. Without serious treatment that is never quick and easy, things won't change. They went a few months drama free, but the core issues always remain.
I hope I'm wrong but having a family full of mental issues and having had my cousin stay with me in and out of psych wards, this has been my experience.
Like alcoholism, the person needs to want treatment or it's not going to work. My angry ridden 15 year old cousin who threatened to kill his dad and himself if they don't let him be was put into therapy, individually and family. He was a star there. Different at home..
Having been where you are though my cousin was 20, I wish you much luck and pray it won't be such a bumpy road with Padme. She is a tween now and the hormonal teen years lie ahead. I would still see if you can find a psychiatrist that can treat her. There may be meds we don't know about that can ease symptoms.
Continued ts and ps. I really hope in the end it really is a case of feeling safe and loved in your case. Xxx
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
I know there isn't much you can do about but I'm guessing Padme getting back with old friends is not going to be a good thing
ChiefD
Footballguy
Man, I know this sucks, and I applaud you from the bottom of my heart for trying this. And what I am about to type is not judgmental in any way - it's just a guy on the internet who has been through some serious #### in his own life trying to help......
But the way I see it, is that your wife...either right or wrong....hasn't embraced this girl. Probably wasn't 100% on board in the beginning and is certainly not now. And that girl feels this. She knows this. And that is part of where a lot of your tension is.
For that girl, the female mentor part of this is an ENORMOUS piece of this puzzle. Probably the most important part. Your wife needs to be stronger than any other female that girl has been exposed to her entire life.
I am not meaning to pick on your wife - this is a hard situation for everyone involved. But she HAS to be on board 100% and then some to make it work for this girl. Your wife needs to support her, and show it, and be a listener to her and not another wall to beat her head against.
I pray hard for you guys.
Drunken knight
Footballguy
That is what I remembered you writing. Tough to distinguish if this was attention seeking or a real attempt. Both dangerous, as even the attention seeking attempt can result in suicide. They also just don't magically go away as CN mentioned above. Continued good luck to you.
MikeIke
Footballguy
That's one thing that burns me about this I NEVER would have considered taking Padme into my house without my wife's strenuous pleas for help. Now I feel like my wife has given up an it's up to me to save this girl, with no help from the wife. SHE'S ONLY HERE BECAUSE YOU WANTED HER! Now you give up 5 months later, and leave it all to me? #### you!
Needless to say, my family is not in a good spot right now.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
baymen
Footballguy
That is really tough; I really hope you can pull through this. I have some first hand experience with BP family members and logic goes out the door, which is completely alien to me in a real world to me way, but I do hope emotional attachment will rule the day and what seems insurmountable can be surpassed.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
I didn't catch on it was your wife pushing to take her in. She figured she could help her best afterall it seems she has the same issue.
We like to think we can, and some former pts who are stable and doing well are able to lead support groups. They've been there so who better. The difference is with mental illness it is a daily part of life. Even if you are stable and feeling well, it is work to keep that way each day. And there are times when you will have bad days. Your wife works, is a wife and has 2 sons. That can be a lot. Add to the mix, Padme.
I think your wife had good intentions because she feels for her. She believed she could help her too. But it sounds like she has realised she really can't and it may actually be harmful to her own psyche. She gave it a few months.
For this reason I have a huge heart for your wife for even trying when you have the same struggles. There is no cure for mental illness. It's a full time commitment to staying on your meds and keeping on top of keeping yourself stable whether from professionals or your own self help that works for you to deal.
So imo, I wouldn't make your wife feel bad for at the time she did think she could be of help. You just don't know if you can or for how long when you have a mental illness yourself. Padme is 12. That's a minimum of 6 more years till the magic 18.
I feel for all of you. I'm a bit more partial to your wife because she has a heart and really tried. Kudos to you all.
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Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I understand the concern, but it sounds like it would be good for her. Boredom and lack of focus or anything to strive for seem be major pitfalls for teens, so it seems like it could great for her mentally and emotionally to invest herself in this. Frankly, being interested in something sounds like a step in the right direction.
I don't know much about the martial arts/kickboxing scene, but from what I can tell, the trainers and teachers seem to be very good people. I'd make sure do a thorough search to find a place where you feel good that whoever is teaching her and the people she'd be around will be a positive influence in her life.
And of course, given where Padme has come from, she certainly has a lot of pent up anger. It's surely going to come out in various forms anyway, so in a gym/ring is a good place for it.
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wilked
Footballguy
For what it’s worth my wife had a similar thing when we fostered a troubled girl for 18 months. She was the bigger advocate to do it from the start, but by the end when things got tougher she was ready to move on while I was focused on making it work.
My theory is that women have a stronger instinct to protect blood children first more than males, who may have a more general protect children mentality
My theory is that women have a stronger instinct to protect blood children first more than males, who may have a more general protect children mentality
Beef Ravioli
Footballguy
Any progress with working with the Buckeye Ranch? I know they have a lot of resources and a pretty good reputation.
shadyridr
Footballguy
I think its a great idea. The training will teach her discipline and hard work. It seems like something she can get addicted to and keep her out of trouble.
msommer
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
GO FOR IT! Being interested in something is huge for her. See how it goes.
Aside from just learning the art, she's going to learn a lot about discipline, respect, etc as part of her training (if the studio is worth a darn). I'd just give them a heads up about her situation so they know what they're going to be working with.
Koya
Footballguy
As to martial arts / MMA or something similar, I think it's a great idea.
You mentioned her desire for athletics and physical activity. That would provide such an opportunity while also providing an outlet for her aggression. Would let her focus anger and frustration and pain in a positive way while teaching her discipline and respect... for others, for what physical violence represents and how to properly channel aggressions and for herself.
That structure and the motivation to behave in order to pursue it could be an invaluable tool for learning, coping and life, while providing new social networks as well.
Just my 2c.
You mentioned her desire for athletics and physical activity. That would provide such an opportunity while also providing an outlet for her aggression. Would let her focus anger and frustration and pain in a positive way while teaching her discipline and respect... for others, for what physical violence represents and how to properly channel aggressions and for herself.
That structure and the motivation to behave in order to pursue it could be an invaluable tool for learning, coping and life, while providing new social networks as well.
Just my 2c.
Foosball God
Foos
This could be a good thing. Martial Arts trains discipline and respect as long as you can find a good sensei. Any chance you would take classes with her?
Koya
Footballguy
Foosball God
Foos
Sensei: Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it?
Padme: No, Sensei!
Sensei: Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it?
Padme: No, Sensei!
Sensei: Defeat does not exist in this dojo, does it?
Padme: No, Sensei!
Sensei: Prepare! What do we study here?
Padme: The way of the fist, sir!
Sensei: And what is that way?
Padme: Strike first, strike hard, no mercy, sir!
Sensei: I can't hear you!
Padme: Strike first, strike hard, no mercy, sir!
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Righetti
Footballguy
How about something like true Karate (not the Cobra Kai stuff). Something with defined boundaries, hierarchy, life lessons etc. maybe it will give her some of the structure she needs?
Koya
Footballguy
Ok, maybe Myiagi Dojo (or whatever Danny's new DoJo is named) would be more appropriate for this situation.
In all seriousness, I do think this could be tremendously valuable for everyone.
Foosball God
Foos
Agree. Most dojos are pretty strict with discipline and respect. Those are things she desperately needs.
kutta
Footballguy
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
As Curly noted, make sure to be supportive and tender with your wife. She may be in survival mode mentally just trying to make it hour to hour, blocking out the drama. Her own fight is no doubt harder now and is paramount.
Hugs.
Hugs.
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Hilts
Footballguy
RC94
Footballguy
I started taking martial arts when I was younger than Padme, and it was because my parents wanted me to be more disciplined, not so I could learn how to fight. I think it's great when done properly. I would enlist her in a school that focuses much more on discipline and kata as opposed to learning how to fight. MMA and kickboxing aren't going to be as effective in this regard as some of the more traditional styles like Shotokan IMO. It also depends a lot on the sensei so I would first speak with the sensai, explain your goal for enrolling her, and make sure he/she is on the same page as you.
jamny
Footballguy
So tough to read this. Painful to think what can bring you to write this.
But, honestly I don't remember you implying that you weren't all in from the start. Obviously your wife has some issues that we weren't aware of and might have had different advice had we known but I would try to avoid placing blame and accept that this was a family decision.
Really tough to read that. I’m not sure I could handle it. I know his wife has issues, but damn it’s tough knowing she pushed for it, is a big cause of the issues/fights and has given up leaving it all to him. Makes you wonder how much he’s had to handle his whole marriage. I hope his boys are more like him.
pats3in4
Footballguy
I hear you and this sucks, but with all due respect...
I remember the conversation we had in another thread years back about your wife's battle with BPD. You were (and still are) very well-versed in this type of PD and your wife's initial enthusiasm to help Padme, only to do a 180 once the going got tough is BPD 101. You had to have seen this coming. If you didn't, I think you know that's on you. In that vein, I suggest owning the decision to help Padme and not paint this as your wife's rescue project that you reluctantly went along with, only to get resentful once it got dropped fully in your lap.
Life with a BPD spouse is difficult without a Padme in it. I remember being told by my LMFT that marriages in which at least one spouse suffers BPD end in divorce 89% of the time. Be wary to think that removing Padme makes your marriage work long term. The irony is that 20 years from now, you may be divorced despite the decision to get rid if Padme now and wish you could have helped her more. I know that's dark and it's definitely not advice. Only you know what's best for you and your family. You're doing the best you can and we all applaud you.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
I was in karate in my teen years. My father was not thrilled with the idea because I had a temper and was very difficult. The respect I learned as a byproduct from that I think helped me deal with the world around me in a better way. I was horrible at forms, but good at sparring. Either way, you're still taught to respect the people around you.
msommer
Footballguy
CurlyNight
Footballguy
It's not just him and his wife. They have 2 sons to think about as well. Bpd is treatable but the person must acknowledge the fact that they have this and get therapy/learn skills to deal with it on a daily basis to keep it at bay. Padme is a tween. The teen years lie ahead, which is hard enough without bpd. Of course we are rooting for Padme, but there is a wife suffering who is the mother of his 2 sons. They need to take care of them first and make sure they are ok and remain that way. They may be quiet but stuff can start brewing with them to where it's no longer cool to have this new sister.pats3in4 said:
It's a tough time for sure, and will always be tough unless Padme manages to learn and implement ways of coping. Putting her in martial arts is good if it turns out she really likes it as exercise is always important. In my cousin's psych ward, they had exercise, yoga and meditation for everyone. Very key to maintaining their well being. Actually, all of our well being. Everyone was forced to attend but those who didn't want to participate just sat there. You can't force them.
If it turns out Padme can't live there anymore, it doesn't mean Mike can't still be supportive of her and stay in touch if he wishes too.
So many things to consider.
Eta: Depression and anxiety often go along with pd's. That's something that needs to be addressed as well along with bpd.
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DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Hang in there. You're doing something amazing. It might be hard to see it in the trenches, but you are. You're inspiring me to be a better person and you're showing your boys and your wife and everyone around you what it means to be a good person. #### ain't easy sometimes. Keep at it.
Beef Ravioli
Footballguy
Please take this advice if you choose to go the martial arts route! To just take her to the mma gym could be putting gasoline on this fire. The discipline gained is the greater goal than some type of fighting skill.
