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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?) (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter spider321
- Start date
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
IF you've been here long enough....you've seen a gravitating from a lot of the (IMO) political and legal heavyweights on both sides of the traditional political spectrum to a decidedly anti-Trump stance. If some of these guys were/are in a "liberal" echo chamber.....than an overwhelming majority of the world is.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
We have the biggest...the greatest echo chamber....bigger and more beautiful than any other echo chamber in the world.
The Football Freak
Footballguy
Currently? All of Chauncey’s handles. There are so many now, I just don’t feel like listing them. Tanner outed him a while ago. He seems to be a white-nationalist political troll.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
spider321
Footballguy
No, Koya, I would not consider that person to be a liberal.
I do not post on this subforum, and truly wanted to gauge whether or not my previous impression was still true. I have my answer.
Koya
Footballguy
What is that answer? Please share.
FYI, while I actually admire the spirit of Liberalism, I don't subscribe to the practice. Regardless, the term has been tossed far and wide here, as if it's a bad thing.
It isn't a bad thing. And many of us who are not, have been "accused" of such, as if it were.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
dschuler
Footballguy
What do you think the answer is, or are you just trying to troll? Almost every political FFA thread is another form of Trump bashing, just look where people took this thread. It’s not constructive, it’s immature, unproductive, and mind numbing. If you can’t see that, maybe you aren’t as libertarian as you think.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
Yes? It seems like you continue to believe that it is a made up problem. The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security would disagree with you. But what do they know?An actual attempt at discussion about Nazi’s?
The General
Footballguy
You have provided so much to the conversation. Very compelling point of view you have.
Thanks, spider123!
squistion
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
If I may compliment you, you are nearly as bright as Donald Trump, and clearly a better communicator.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
Well a bigly majority of the country is embarrassed that Trump is the president. What gets bashed 95% of the time are his words and actions. Hell, his nepotism has put the US as serious risk with Jerod and Ivanka's causing tension within his own administration, and that's just some of this week's news.
There's not a single thing about the large number of posters on this forum that would categorize us as liberal, except for most being educated, and yet Trump and his actions are routinely ridiculed.
Ever think it's because of the man and his actions alone and not from some inherent bias we all hold? We know Trump never takes responsibility for anything negative, is that trait carrying over to his supporters?
I hate to inform you of this, but the country, as a whole, is disgusted and embarrassed that Donald Trump is the President. That's not exclusive to this board. That's the general feeling of the entire country. The man is a hate monger. He's a racist. A sexist. And a bigot. He has factual information that our biggest enemy has hijacked our democratic process and is well under way of doing it again in November, and because personal financial interests, he refuses to even impose sanctions on them. Sports champions will no longer visit the White House. The US has become the laughing stock of the globe. 'Trump bashing' as you call it, is the overall tone of the country. Of course, if you only stay glued to Fox News, you probably haven't noticed.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You have a lot of responses in a thread you don't even understand the purpose of. Including telling us what the purpose of it was yesterday.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I've posted responses I believe answered a question posted in this thread but it seems that's not what the OP wanted. Since I apparently do not understand the purpose of this thread I would like to know what it is. I've asked twice but never received an answer. It seems like an attempt to just stir things up for fun but I'm told that's not correct. If it's an attempt to see if the site full of Liberals I think we've discovered that it's not, it's full of people that have different political ideologies but all agree that Trump is terrible.
Perhaps the title of the thread should have been if this forum is a Anti-Trump Echo Chamber. Seems a bit more accurate.
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JuniorNB
squistion
dozer
spider321
There's your purpose for the thread. A sad lonely troll looking for attention. Made one post and just sits back to watch the reaction. The very definition of a troll. I'm hoping he gets a girlfriend or something soon. Poor guy. :(
JuniorNB
squistion
dozer
spider321
There's your purpose for the thread. A sad lonely troll looking for attention. Made one post and just sits back to watch the reaction. The very definition of a troll. I'm hoping he gets a girlfriend or something soon. Poor guy. :(
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urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Independents, libertarians and anyone not liberal/democrat can't bash Trump without being lumped into being on the left? Why is this concept so hard to grasp for this board?
Thanks. Not missing that at all. Obviously, there are supporters doing awful stuff. That's a separate point from what I'm talking about.
I'm saying I know lots of reasonable people who have decided to stop engaging in talk about things like lower taxes or limiting immigration because it's simply not worth being automatically labeled racists or bigots. Just as we're seeing here.
And to be clear - I'm objective on this. I disagree with most everything Trump's done. My observation is watching people I know who have different opinions on things than the left might and they've decided it's easier to disengage from forums like this as it's they've decided it's not worth it. I don't disagree with them.
If I wanted lower taxes or more strict immigration, I wouldn't discuss it on this forum. Which kind of sucks as it's my forum. But it's where we are.
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Then dont lie with dogs if you dont want fleas. The political party that supports your ideas on immigration and fiscal policies is also the party that is openly endorsing and promoting the slob in the white house. Trumps ability to co-opt the conservative agenda and therefore the republican party as a whole is what is driving the opinion meter. Figure out a way to correct your party and then worry about winning hearts and minds of the rest of us.
First - it's not my party.
Second, I think that's what most Conservatives I know are doing - trying to do or correct as you say what they can.
In the meantime, they're opting out of any discussion on forums like this because many people wrongly lump anyone that shares one position with Trump as one who shares every position. And it's just not worth it so they opt out.
To the original question, that leaves a forum with mostly one side. Which is what I think of when someone says "echo chamber". Which for me, makes it not very good. Even if I'm on the side as everyone else.
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Never said it was your party, said it was the party that shares your policy driven ideas. Trump is the face of the party that trumpets your ideas and the leader of the conservative right as witnessed by his standing at he CPAC last week. Thunderous applause and a 97% approval rating tells me you and your friends have a long way to go to win back your ideological base. Good luck with that.
In the meantime, work with your friends to to vote out any of the current office holders who are supplicating themselves to Trump so you, the good guys, can have your rightful seat at he table of ideas back.
In the meantime, work with your friends to to vote out any of the current office holders who are supplicating themselves to Trump so you, the good guys, can have your rightful seat at he table of ideas back.
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SWC
Bromigo
joehan with all due respect i do not believe truly that most conservatives are doing what they can to correct the ills of the republican party what do you actually see any old school dont spend money have respect for others type conservatives doing because me i just see most every r i know going along with this crap i will hang up and listen thanks brohan take that to the bank
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
I think you're lucky to have a political forum where many of the posters are generally in step with,or maybe even ahead of, society's shift to one of more acceptance and fairness for all. Movements forward always cause some bruised feelings along the way.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You and I have had very different experiences on your board. In my experience every time someone starts a policy discussion its generally respectful and stays on the issue. The threads on Obamacare/health care, Syria, net neutrality and even gun control are all examples of this. Even some subjects that are inextricably linked to Trump like free speech and voter fraud mostly stay on topic even if Trump is discussed without people making broader generalizations about posters.First - it's not my party.
Second, I think that's what most Conservatives I know are doing - trying to do or correct as you say what they can.
In the meantime, they're opting out of any discussion on forums like this because many people wrongly lump anyone that shares one position with Trump as one who shares every position. And it's just not worth it so they opt out.
To the original question, that leaves a forum with mostly one side. Which is what I think of when someone says "echo chamber". Which for me, makes it not very good. Even if I'm on the side as everyone else.
Maybe the majority of threads here are about various aspects of Trump's presidency. But if you don't like the way people treat Trump supporters you don't have to go into those threads or try to defend him. @matttyl has been posting for years about Obamacare and about some other substantive issues from a mostly conservative standpoint, I've had dozens of exchanges with him, and I have no idea if he voted for Trump.
SinbadTheSailor
Footballguy
Here's my take:First - it's not my party.
Second, I think that's what most Conservatives I know are doing - trying to do or correct as you say what they can.
In the meantime, they've opting out of any discussion on forums like this because many people wrongly lump anyone that shares one position with Trump as one who shares every position. And it's just not worth it so they opt out.
To the original question, that leaves a forum with mostly one side. Which is what I think of when someone says "echo chamber". Which for me, makes it not very good. Even if I'm on the side as everyone else.
- The majority of conservatives (60% or so) disagree with Trump on some issues, don't like his tweets, but are generally OK with the direction of policies coming out of Washington so they don't get up in arms about him, and generally just tune him out because, in general, they're OK with the outcomes. This is the vast majority, in my opinion, of conservatives. They're just not motivated to defend Trump online, or in person, but can sit and watch the news and while annoyed at how bad he is, be OK with the outcomes.
- A minority of conservatives, %30 or so, are team Trump cheerleaders. The man can do no wrong, liberals are crying and hysterical because he's winning so much, and they just love every single thing that happens that gets a rise out of Trump's opponents. This group is clearly motivated to go online, point out the wins, troll, and generally bask in the misery of the opposition.
- Another group of conservatives (10%?) that are principled, hold fast to their positions regardless of the president, who are truly offended by Trump and don't mind discussing their policy differences. These folks are the #NeverTrumpers, who spoke out in campaign, and who never got on board team Trump. Principled opposition to the man. They were critical of him before, are critical of him now, and where he aligns with principles they'll agree, and where they depart they'll disagree, and they'll call him on all his petty and divisive and systemic threatening crap. These folks are incredibly rare, and you can tell this by seeing just how, almost to a person, those in the GOP who were conservative leaders who opposed Trump in the primaries, and even some who spoke out against him with the "grab them by the..." tape came out, they've almost ALL shut up, stopped speaking out against Trump, won't comment negatively about him, etc. Those folks are in the 60% category, which leaves this category much smaller than you'd expect.
So you have silent conservatives (60%), trump cheerleaders (30%) and stalwart conservatives (10% but probably much less), making up conservatives in the country. So when only about 10% or less of your entire population is willing, or invested enough, to get online and have rational disagreements over policy, you end up with what looks like a liberal echo chamber, essentially by default.
Because when you look on the other side, progressives have their own views on decency, on legislation, on issues affecting america, on how a president should behave, and nearly 100% of them have no issues speaking out against Trump, his actions, his comments, or his policies.
So you have a nearly 10:1 ratio of motivation to engage in discussions/debates/arguments online between progressives and conservatives. It's no wonder that the most vocal are those on the left, and the mostly silent are those on the right. It's just the nature of the political dynamic right now - not any solid bias in the forums.
Not my "policy driven ideas". Not sure where you're getting any of that from. I voted for Obama twice and Clinton in the last election. I've been opposite Trump since he was a candidate.
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Echo chamber probably isn’t the right term, but this forum definitely has an anti-Trump bias.
I don’t mean that it has an anti-Trump sentiment. It obviously does, but that’s perfectly appropriate. I wish more people had an anti-Trump sentiment. It’s a bit mind-boggling to me that Trump still has supporters who aren’t his family members.
But sentiment is different from bias. Anti-Trump sentiment is good, IMO, while anti-Trump bias is not.
Here’s what I mean by bias. There are people on both sides here who post factually unsupported claims, or who spend more time insulting other posters than they do focusing on substance. I’m not saying that it’s even on both sides, but it does happen on both sides. The bias is evident in the response.
When a Trump critic posts something kind of stupid, it’s often ignored. When a Trump supporter posts something kind of stupid, he gets 34 replies letting him know about it.
I fully admit that I am biased against Trump, and am therefore part of the problem. I celebrate my anti-Trump sentiment, but I recognize that my anti-Trump bias is something I should try to minimize. I’m working on it. (I also recognize what a difficult task that is, given that humans are specifically designed to be biased in precisely this way.)
I don’t mean that it has an anti-Trump sentiment. It obviously does, but that’s perfectly appropriate. I wish more people had an anti-Trump sentiment. It’s a bit mind-boggling to me that Trump still has supporters who aren’t his family members.
But sentiment is different from bias. Anti-Trump sentiment is good, IMO, while anti-Trump bias is not.
Here’s what I mean by bias. There are people on both sides here who post factually unsupported claims, or who spend more time insulting other posters than they do focusing on substance. I’m not saying that it’s even on both sides, but it does happen on both sides. The bias is evident in the response.
When a Trump critic posts something kind of stupid, it’s often ignored. When a Trump supporter posts something kind of stupid, he gets 34 replies letting him know about it.
I fully admit that I am biased against Trump, and am therefore part of the problem. I celebrate my anti-Trump sentiment, but I recognize that my anti-Trump bias is something I should try to minimize. I’m working on it. (I also recognize what a difficult task that is, given that humans are specifically designed to be biased in precisely this way.)
Thanks. I think this is close to how I see it. I'd bump down percentage of the "Trump Can Do No Wrong Fans" a good bit but I think you describe the different factions well. I do believe there is strong bias however. But that's ok. Most everyone has some sort of bias.
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Thanks for sharing. My experience has been much more like @Maurile Tremblay described.
I'd hope for much more of your type experiences where different viewpoints can be discussed without pre judging the entire person. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks. But I don't think it's lucky. I think it's the norm for most forums. And I don't see any bruised feelings. I see mostly a lack of any real discussion as one side's opted out. I'd for that to change and maybe it will. But it's mostly on my side that's here to allow it to happen. It's my observation we're not there now.
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matttyl
Footballguy
I most certainly did not. Voted third party if you want to know. Yes, I do view certain things from a more conservative standpoint, but I'm not sure that makes me a conservative. In pretty socially liberal when viewed against many in my geographic area.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
The bolded is why most conservatives will not engage in discussion.....You all cannot help yourselves...The name calling is like an addiction...How can we have a conversation when one side starts off calling the other a troll.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Great post but people are doing summersaults on this in an effort for introspection. Cut to 1998, or 2005, or 2011 - who cared that anyone came into a debate with "bias"? I don't think I'm biased against Trump but I totally understand why someone would say I am. But regardless someone's bias is not a cause to quit a debate. All that matters is your values, the facts and the engagement of ideas.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I mean hell's bells tell me you're a committed Marxist and I'll buy you beers for 4 hours to tell you how much I think you're wrong.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
I've never made any claim that there are "Nazis" on FBGs. I attempted to have a conversation about the actual problem of white supremacist/white nationalist beliefs in our country, but you clearly have no interest in that, so I'm going to stop trying.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'm sorry but again why is this different from older political debates? "You Democrats..." etc. "You're a typical conservative..." etc. I cannot recall a time when bad non-sequiters, overt generalizations, implicit taunting and unfair name calling (communist, fascist, socialist, leftist, warmonger, racist, neocon, etc.) was not employed by both/all sides. The reaction of Trump supporters is very different, I'm just telling you that from personal experience.In the meantime, they're opting out of any discussion on forums like this because many people wrongly lump anyone that shares one position with Trump as one who shares every position. And it's just not worth it so they opt out.
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The General
Footballguy
SinbadTheSailor
Footballguy
I find it hard to propose a solution to the problem though.
The problem from my perspective is that the GOP, the party of conservatives, has embraced Trump. GOP leaders, media, and folks many of us know in person are every day normalizing Trump as POTUS. In private, they may complain, but publicly, they excuse his behavior, refuse to rebuke him, and in general are publicly supportive of his presidency in its current form.
Until this changes, the left will be incredibly zealous to point out to the right, which seems publicly supportive of Trump, just how bad he is.
It seems to me that the right is caught in a place where they have a guy that they don't want, don't like, are frankly scared of, but they publicly (for now) have to pretend to support him. And this frustrates many of them. But they do it anyway. And the left, daily, beat them up about it.
And in threads like this, you have folks on the right complaining that folks on the left are unrelenting in their (mostly fair) criticisms of Trump and that it seems biased and lopsided.
How about this: until those on the right stand up against Trump, his abuses, his sexual assault history, his contempt for the media, for american institutions, for his support of strongmen across the globe...until those on the right start speaking out against the many issues of Trump, the left will continue to hammer them on it.
And further - when this happens, it's not the fault of the liberals, or progressives. It's the fault of those on the right who stay silent while this man runs roughshod over the institutions, values and country that we all love.
The problem from my perspective is that the GOP, the party of conservatives, has embraced Trump. GOP leaders, media, and folks many of us know in person are every day normalizing Trump as POTUS. In private, they may complain, but publicly, they excuse his behavior, refuse to rebuke him, and in general are publicly supportive of his presidency in its current form.
Until this changes, the left will be incredibly zealous to point out to the right, which seems publicly supportive of Trump, just how bad he is.
It seems to me that the right is caught in a place where they have a guy that they don't want, don't like, are frankly scared of, but they publicly (for now) have to pretend to support him. And this frustrates many of them. But they do it anyway. And the left, daily, beat them up about it.
And in threads like this, you have folks on the right complaining that folks on the left are unrelenting in their (mostly fair) criticisms of Trump and that it seems biased and lopsided.
How about this: until those on the right stand up against Trump, his abuses, his sexual assault history, his contempt for the media, for american institutions, for his support of strongmen across the globe...until those on the right start speaking out against the many issues of Trump, the left will continue to hammer them on it.
And further - when this happens, it's not the fault of the liberals, or progressives. It's the fault of those on the right who stay silent while this man runs roughshod over the institutions, values and country that we all love.
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This feels much different to me this time. I've never seen as much pre judging and generalizing as I have in the last couple of years. I'm glad you've had a different experience.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
And there is another problem...Lumping everyone together.... From this thread the question is why will the conservatives not engage in conversation...Conversation has to go both directions and can't end in you are a troll, you are a bigot, you are a racist, you are a misogynist...That just turns the other side off...What you all fail to realize is that you have the ability to change minds or the way one may look at a particular subject but just when you get to that point...
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