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RB Devin Singletary, NYG (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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Dizzy
Footballguy
Potential is there, but it seems like the staff has trust issues with him and Frank Gore stays on the fringes.
He was super productive in limited touches earlier in the year, then he got hurt, then he came back - had the breakout game...everyone thought the golden ticket had arrived, and the wheels came off last week.
I'm playing him this week (Freeman injury), the match-up is great, but my confidence/trust is tied to the same from BUF coaching staff and a QB that is a box of chocolates.
The Frankman
Footballguy
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The Frankman
Footballguy
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The Frankman
Footballguy
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rschroeder1
Footballguy
As a transparency note, I do own Singletary in a heavy keeper league.
I actually wasn't too fazed by the fumbles, but would be curious to know if others share this perspective. I watched Singletary pretty closely last night as I have to make a keeper decision on him next year and haven't had a chance to see him play an entire game.
On the first fumble, my perspective was the result was more of a great play by Watt than a negative play by Singletary. Singletary had the ball wrapped with his fingers and notched in his elbow, and fairly close to his body. Watt's strip attempt from behind was perhaps unexpected. I imagine there aren't many RBs in the NFL that aren't going to get stripped on a play like that.
On the second fumble, if you watch the replay, Singletary's leg is twisted in an extremely awkward direction. Despite the strip attempt, he held on to the ball until the point where his leg was bent to the max out of a shape that any leg should be bent. Frankly, I'm amazed he didn't get hurt on the play.
The fact that the coaching staff kept trotting him out there also indicated to me they didn't see the fumbles as a Singletary-specific problem, per se.
Would be curious to know if others share this perspective. Certainly, his four fumbles on the year have to be taken into account.
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saintfool
Dead sexy
4 fumbles in 11 games, two of which happened in the same game, and resulted in 1 fumble lost. Hard to overstate just how ridiculous a take yours is...
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The fumbles are definitely an issue, if for no other reason than Sean McDermott hates it and has tended to go to Gore more after his fumbles.
Make no mistake, the fumbles were absolutely 100% the reason that Gore was in after White’s INT rather than Singletary and that decision by McDermott may have cost the Bills 4 points.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
That's true, but Singletary was back out there pretty quick. I could be totally off base here, just how I saw it.
smcindoe
Footballguy
I've had him all year long but haven't started him much, and last night was the first time I got to really watch him play. He seemed... not great? I'm not even all that concerned about the fumbles, since it hasn't been a season-long issue, but he just seemed like a guy back there. Get the ball, tip-toe up to the line and get swallowed up. He had a few nice runs where he made a smart cut, but I wasn't seeing a ton of burst or anything that looked like game-breaking ability. Is he banged up? The Steelers just played that well? Or is this what he is?
cloppbeast
Footballguy
I had your reaction when I first watched him in a Bills uniform this pre-season, not impressed. He's grown on me since then though. Not a athletically dominant rb or anything, but he knows how to cut through the defense and time his jukes to get by defenders sometimes. The guy above who compared him to Devonta Freeman probably nailed it.
And the Steelers defense is among the best in the league this year.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That's true, but I suspect that Gore's complete ineffectiveness had a lot to do with that. If the Bills had a better complementary RB, Singletary may have spent more time on the bench after the second fumble. Just speculation obviously, but that does seem to be how McDermott rolls.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
He actually reminds me a lot of two similar RBs: Frank Gore and Curtis Martin.
Neither guy had burner speed, but they had excellent vision, knew how to set guys up, always plowed ahead for extra yards, and just simply understood how to be a running back. That’s Devin Singletary. His vision is absolutely elite. And there are plenty of highlights for him from this year making defenders look silly when he sets them up and they whiff.
EthnicFury
Footballguy
With guys who fit this profile I see a ton of upside if the line improves, also. If they make holes he will find them.
The ‘down’ games should also be somewhat easy to predict; playing a run D like Pittsburgh, given that he doesn’t have breakaway speed it takes most of the upside away if the 7-10 yard runs he’s usually producing turn into 4’s and 5’s. The vision and shiftiness gives him a reasonably high floor with a full workload though.
rschroeder1
Footballguy
My answer is heavily league-dependant: 12 teams, 4 keepers per team, so a chance to keep a starting RB is a great opportunity. I can keep Singletary as an 8th round pick out of 17 next year, so there's good value there to do so. Of course, we'll need to see how the offseason churn pans out.
Echoing some of the comments above, I've seen enough elusiveness from him to think he can be a starting NFL running back. Despite his small frame, he does seem to be able to break a few tackles and most importantly fall forward.
His passing game numbers are a little mystifying to me. He's lined up a fair amount at receiver or in the slot but hasn't really carved out a niche there yet. I'm curious if this is a matter of not putting too much on his plate, as if he doesn't have the skill set, the formation use strikes me as a bit odd.
I would be hopeful for RB2 numbers next year, based on my opportunity to keep him.
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Kevrunner
Footballguy
In the NFL 4 fumbles in 11 games is a lot. He is a rookie, he needs to work on that, how is that a ridiculous take? A lot of coaches pull a RB out of a game after 1 fumble. Miles Sanders got benched earlier this year on a fumble.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Over the last 5 games he has the 4th most carries in the league for the 4th most yards.
Curtis Martin was actually pretty fast, but it isn't just the 40 time that was bad for Singletary, his 3 cone and SS were dreadful as well. I admittedly haven't looked into it much, not sure if there's been some explanation like he was sick/injured or something, but if those numbers are representative of his speed and quickness, it's hard to get super excited about his upside.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Dont let combine numbers shape your opinion of his athletic ability.
Dalvin Cook had worse 3 cone than Singletary. These RB are good at what they do.
shadrap
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
Is he the bellcow going forward into the future or do you see them bringing someone else in?
pinequick
Footballguy
This, THIS is why I come to the Shark Pool. This.
Truth in advertising: I drafted Singletary in the 3rd round of my dynasty draft based on opportunity alone. Could not be happier. Dude reminds me a lot of McCoy, with his cuts (and, unfortunately last night, his ball security).
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Absolutely the bell cow. They love him. And not just the coaches and front office, the players RAVE about him.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
He’s got loads of these types of highlights from this season. He’s constantly making defenders look silly. I don’t care what his workout numbers look like, the guy is a flat out baller. He makes guys miss in tight spaces, he makes guys take bad angles, he finds every crease and hole, he falls forward for that last extra yard. He just needs to learn better ball security, to catch the ball before running with it, and to improve a bit in blitz pickup (something he isn’t terrible at but could be a touch better at).
Ha, you are quick... I just posted that gif!
Seriously though, I didn't think he'd be athletic enough to be the bell cow. But he has "it" he runs the outside zone so well, just has that knack for setting up blocks and getting upfield. Surprising amount of power too.
If anything stops him, it'll be fumbles (the whole team fumbles too much)
saintfool
Dead sexy
Didn't really fumble in college despite a huge workload over 3 seasons. this also on top of the kind of runner he is with lots of second level penetration. he's hard to tackle, physical in his style. He doesn't need to "fix" anything because it's not a problem. He's not Tiki Barber.Kevrunner said:
Kevrunner
Footballguy
The level of competition he faced in college is no where near what he’s facing in the NFL and he just needs to learn to hold onto the ball better and I’m sure the coaches are working with him on his ball security. I know in college, fumbling wasn’t an issue, but so far in the NFL he has 4 fumbles in only 164 carries. He needs to fix that.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Also there's no correlation between combine numbers vs NFL success after controlling for draft status.Biabreakable said:
rschroeder1
Footballguy
I would add in that the skill the 3-cone is meant to test is something that Singletary, to the naked eye, seems to do well on the field of play - rapid cuts and changes of direction to evade defenders.
kneeshooter
Footballguy
I think his point was to disprove the poor 3 cone scores which apparently are designed to measure skills like this. Over time he'll hopefully make smarter decisions with his running but the ability is there it would seem.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
smcindoe said:
Your comment here reminds me of my comment above from a few months ago. There is something that looks very "just a guy" about him, but yet he continues to consistently produce, week-in and week-out. There are dozens of RBs out there who can't find work right now who have better measurables than Singletary, better top-end speed, etc. But I kid you not, Singletary looks to have elite field vision and, for lack of a better term, instinct while running the ball.
I don't think he will ever be elite simply because he does not have the truly elite athleticism of a guy like, say, Zeke Elliott or Saquon Barkley. But I am convinced from watching all of his games this year that he has what it takes to be an above-average starting RB in the NFL, especially in a good offense for him....which is what the Bills are currently running. Fantasy-wise, I understand the concerns, especially with Allen vulturing his goalline TDs and with limited pass-catching numbers. Overall I think he has a pretty bright future in the NFL.
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rschroeder1
Footballguy
With the benefit of getting to watch him week in and week out, what do you make of the formation usage of Singletary, in regard to his receiving potential?
My main TV exposure to him has been the Cowboys game, the Steelers game and the second half of the Ravens game (too busy watching the Bears
). I can't find any accurate counts of this, but anecdotally I've seen him lined up as a wide receiver and in the slot numerous times. I believe I've only seen him get one target from these plays (the screen pass on Sunday in the 2nd half that was called back for a penalty), but again, this is not any reasonable statistical count. The formation use makes me wonder if they see potential for him in the passing game. What's your take on this?
Kevrunner
Footballguy
All I said was he needs to work on his fumbling. You list 2 of the greatest RBs in NFL history. If you are saying that Singletary is already in this group than he absolutely has nothing to worry about. But, I am not putting Singletary in the Hall of Fame just yet. I read a article that the NFL's average fumble rate last season for its Top 10 leading rushers was one for every 124.5 offensive touches. Right now Singletary is way above this ratio and needs to work on it. Can't see how that wasn't worth mentioning. I need to remember never post negative information, my bad.
Post whatever you like kev. I didnt say you were wrong. I didnt say he doesnt need to fix his handle on the ball.
I just added some perspective of two other rookies who ended up being the two best backs ever.
For another bit of perspective, I'd remind everyone that the Steelers are the #1 team in causing turnovers.
And of course the rook has plenty to learn and get better at. But the fumble %s posted say he isnt losing his job over his fumbles.
I just added some perspective of two other rookies who ended up being the two best backs ever.
For another bit of perspective, I'd remind everyone that the Steelers are the #1 team in causing turnovers.
And of course the rook has plenty to learn and get better at. But the fumble %s posted say he isnt losing his job over his fumbles.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't think he's as bad of a receiver as people think he is, but I don't think it's anything that the Bills are really hammering right now. He's ranked tied for 29th in the NFL among targets for RBs. Granted he missed a handful of games, but the Bills simply don't throw to their RBs a ton, even Lesean McCoy only had 46 targets last year (compared to Singletary's 40 this year to date). He also ranks 148th in the NFL in terms of yards per target. The Bills screen game under Brian Daboll has been essentially non-existent...not that that's the end of the world, just the way the offense is designed.With the benefit of getting to watch him week in and week out, what do you make of the formation usage of Singletary, in regard to his receiving potential?
My main TV exposure to him has been the Cowboys game, the Steelers game and the second half of the Ravens game (too busy watching the Bears
I also think Singletary is a little bit overlooked in the Bills passing game because of Isaiah McKenzie and to a lesser extent Robert Foster. McKenzie's numbers won't blow anyone away, but he serves a pretty valuable role as the gadget player, Tyreek Hill-lite. If the Bills are going to run some sort of pre-snap motion or designed downfield-blocking scheme to get a player the ball in space, it's probably going to be McKenzie, not Singletary.
Overall I wouldn't expect much out of him in the receiving game, at least so long as Brian Daboll is calling the plays.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I was reading about the Bills and the screen game and the article I read was really illuminating. The Bills have been AWFUL in the screen game. Just terrible. And while there is maybe a bit of an execution or scheme piece, the bigger issue is that the way teams are defending Josh Allen is a large part of that struggle. Teams are crowding the line of scrimmage, or controlled big blitzing, or putting a spy on Allen. What that is doing is putting defenders right in those screen area. In trying to contain Allen, it has a side benefit of putting defenders in position to snuff out screens.
I haven’t even looked, but I would guess that the Ravens haven’t used a lot of screens for much the same reason.
I haven’t even looked, but I would guess that the Ravens haven’t used a lot of screens for much the same reason.
The 3 cone doesn't measure making guys look silly so I don't think that's it. Making guys miss is great and all, but in the NFL there's usually going to be another guy there very quickly, as we saw in that clip.
I like Singletary, he has a lot of great qualities that you want in a RB, just wish he was bigger/faster/stronger. Hard to see him ever being "elite" IMO.
Dunno.
His 5.4 per carry is leading the 2019 field of lead RBs.
Gore is at 3.6. McCoy was 3.2 last year and at 4.6 this year in KC.
And if Josh Allen's TD vulturing of 1 yard, 1 yard, 8 yard, 1 yard since week 9 went to Singletary... he'd be the #5 overall RB since the day he became the starter (non ppr). As it is he is #11.
Doesnt look that hard imho.
*edit, I missed that several RBs had byes in the 9-15 timeframe. So actually as it is he is at 14-15.
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JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo
Footballguy
Welp, since Cook is out and I didn't get Boone, unless Mattison shows any signs of playing, I'm rolling him out as an RB2.
Somebody please tell me it'll be ok
Somebody please tell me it'll be ok
Cook is out??? Last thing the team reported was that he was feeling good and should be able to play.
https://ffstudentdoc.home.blog/2019/12/18/the-vikings-backfield-injuries/
If Cook subluxated shoulder then he'll be fine. If he dislocated then he'll be out. Team thinks he's fine.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo
Footballguy
Both Cook and Mattison held out of practice today. The problem is that it is a MNF game so I don't think I can take the chance to wait.SCT said:
Devin Singletary must come through! It'll be a combined Christmas / Hanukkah / Kwanzaa / Festivus miracle.
i have him but i'm not sure i see anything special there. i think he's fine and borderline good but they certainly may try to bring in some competition
