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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (2 Viewers)

moleculo said:
I saw that too.  Feels focus-grouped.

Also, he talked about how his phone call was extremely proper, including proper discussions about Joe Biden.  I think Trump doesn't understand why what he did was wrong.
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:shrug:  . I am old enough to remember Trump telling us he would take info from a foreign country - its not that big a stretch to think that would include asking a foreign country to make up info.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Your campaign this time around, if foreigners, if Russia, if China, if someone else offers you information on opponents, should they accept it or should they call the FBI?

TRUMP: I think maybe you do both. I think you might want to listen, I don’t, there’s nothing wrong with listening. If somebody called from a country, Norway, “We have information on your opponent.” Oh, I think I’d want to hear it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You want that kind of interference in our elections?

TRUMP: It’s not an interference, they have information. I think I’d take it. If I thought there was something wrong, I’d go maybe to the FBI. If I thought there was something wrong. But when somebody comes up with oppo research, right, that they come up with oppo research. Oh, let’s call the FBI. The FBI doesn’t have enough agents to take care of it, but you go and talk honestly to congressmen, they all do it, they always have. And that’s the way it is. It’s called oppo research.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Surprising. Thank you.

TRUMP: Thank you. Okay. Fine.

 
Sen. Richard Blumenthal:

"I am calling today for a House Select Cmte. to investigate and move forward with impeachment proceedings against the President. I reached this decision with sadness, but also anger, after the President has repeatedly broken laws and betrayed his oath."

 
moleculo said:
Also, he talked about how his phone call was extremely proper, including proper discussions about Joe Biden.  I think Trump doesn't understand why what he did was wrong.
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And why would he have a reason to talk to Ukraine about Joe Biden?

 
[scooter] said:
And why would he have a reason to talk to Ukraine about Joe Biden?
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Here is the point I don't get - lets say you think Joe Biden did something wrong here - why not go to Barr and ask DOJ to open an investigation?

Of course, if Trump had gone to Barr and made that request - when it became public knowledge, the outcry would have been widespread.  Instead, just ask a foreign government to do the dirty work, and make it seem like it had nothing to do with Trump...

 
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Reactions: Ned
lol, watch the video linked in @squistion's post above:  at roughly :30 in:

"...it was a perfect call, there was no pressure put on them what so ever.  But there was pressure put on with respect to Joe Biden.  what Joe Biden did for his son, that is something they should be looking at."

Trump just stated, on live TV on the steps of the UN, that he pressured a foreign government to investigate his political rival.  There is no defense here.  none.  There is no "but what about Chappaquitick", there is no "but her emails!", there is no "deep state conspiracy", there is no "Fake News", there is no "Liberal conspiracy". 

The only possible line of defense I can come up with is "Trump lies all the time, you can't take what he says as fact", basically the same defense for the Lester Holt interview where he copped to firing Comey because of Russia. 

 
E Street Brat said:
It's damn near the exact same thing that Trump is being accused of.  
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No it is not the exact same thing;

-Biden AND WORLD LEADERS WANTED THE UKRAINE PROSECUTOR OUSTED BECAUSE HE WASN'T PURSUING CORRUPTION "AGRRESSIVELY ENOUGH"

-there hasn't been any attempt to cover any of it up by lying about it

 
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moleculo said:
lol, watch the video linked in @squistion's post above:  at roughly :30 in:

"...it was a perfect call, there was no pressure put on them what so ever.  But there was pressure put on with respect to Joe Biden.  what Joe Biden did for his son, that is something they should be looking at."

Trump just stated, on live TV on the steps of the UN, that he pressured a foreign government to investigate his political rival.  There is no defense here.  none.  There is no "but what about Chappaquitick", there is no "but her emails!", there is no "deep state conspiracy", there is no "Fake News", there is no "Liberal conspiracy". 

The only possible line of defense I can come up with is "Trump lies all the time, you can't take what he says as fact", basically the same defense for the Lester Holt interview where he copped to firing Comey because of Russia. 
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Actually what he meant there is that he believes Biden put pressure on Ukraine and that he thinks Biden should be investigated.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto

Trump has just floated an entirely new reason for withholding funding to Ukraine, claiming he did so because “Europe has to put up money”.
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Slapdash said:
It has worked for him so far, so why not?
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This.  

Trumps philosophy with things like this is always the same.  Fling enough #### against the wall and see what sticks, and unfortunately something always sticks with his followers.  Just wait long enough and you’ll see that same #### getting posted around here as justifiable reasons.   

 
So Trump's defense will be there was no quid pro quo and he held up the money for other reasons.  I know it can be argued that this is irrelevant but will public opinion give him a pass without proof?

 
Juxtatarot said:
So Trump's defense will be there was no quid pro quo and he held up the money for other reasons.  I know it can be argued that this is irrelevant but will public opinion give him a pass without proof?
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Public opinion or Trump supporter opinion? Because the latter has already given him a pass.

 
Max Power said:
Ok enlighten me to all the non disputable facts here. 
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Part of the point of the impeachment process is to discover the facts. If this administration had been forthcoming with information requested in relation to the various perceived improprieties associated with this administration, there would be no need for impeachment. Instead this administration has obstructed justice time and again, so invoking the impeachment process is the only avenue left to Congress to obtain the evidence necessary (or establish the lack thereof) to determine if malfeasance (beyond obstruction) has happened.

It's the last shot at getting the truth of these things until Trump is out of office.

 
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apalmer said:
Public opinion or Trump supporter opinion? Because the latter has already given him a pass.
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Public opinion. Basically, this ends up meaning people who were on the fence about impeachment after the Mueller report.  They may tip the scales in either direction.  

 
Juxtatarot said:
So Trump's defense will be there was no quid pro quo and he held up the money for other reasons.  I know it can be argued that this is irrelevant but will public opinion give him a pass without proof?
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Presumably there is a recording of the phone call someplace, and Congress will subpoena it.  

 
moleculo said:
lol, watch the video linked in @squistion's post above:  at roughly :30 in:

"...it was a perfect call, there was no pressure put on them what so ever.  But there was pressure put on with respect to Joe Biden.  what Joe Biden did for his son, that is something they should be looking at."

Trump just stated, on live TV on the steps of the UN, that he pressured a foreign government to investigate his political rival.  There is no defense here.  none.  There is no "but what about Chappaquitick", there is no "but her emails!", there is no "deep state conspiracy", there is no "Fake News", there is no "Liberal conspiracy". 

The only possible line of defense I can come up with is "Trump lies all the time, you can't take what he says as fact", basically the same defense for the Lester Holt interview where he copped to firing Comey because of Russia. 
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He was talking about Biden putting on pressure.  Come on man

 
Dickies said:
I’m sure Trump will comply. 
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Sure, but that plays back into the public opinion aspect that Juxt is asking about.  If Trump refuses to hand over evidence that would conclusively incriminate or exonerate him, you would think that the public would draw the correct inference.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Presumably there is a recording of the phone call someplace, and Congress will subpoena it.  
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Right.  Perhaps a quid pro quo is clearly stated in the phone call or there is undeniable evidence elsewhere. If that’s true, impeachment will be supported by a sizable majority of the American people.

But what if there isn’t such evidence and it’s not clear in the phone call?  Will just repeated requests to investigate Biden be enough? It should be, IMO, but I’m not sure the majority of Americans will see it that way.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Sure, but that plays back into the public opinion aspect that Juxt is asking about.  If Trump refuses to hand over evidence that would conclusively incriminate or exonerate him, you would think that the public would draw the correct inference.  
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Several conservatives are already attempting to make the argument that it would be a “terrible precedent” to turn over transcripts of Presidential phone conversations to Congress. 

But given the Nixon tapes Supreme Court decision, which I believe was unanimous, I don’t believe this argument has any credibility. 

 
timschochet said:
Several conservatives are already attempting to make the argument that it would be a “terrible precedent” to turn over transcripts of Presidential phone conversations to Congress. 
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Under normal circumstances, I would agree with this argument.  The president needs to be able to have confidential conversations with other foreign leaders without either party worrying about a transcript showing up in the newspaper.  But when the president publicly states that yes, he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden's son, that cat's already out of the bag.

 
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