zoonation
Footballguy
You do t think he ripped people off with the trump uni scam?
for real?
serious question: would you trust a guy who took your tuition money for a fake university? How is that not relevant?
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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
for real?
serious question: would you trust a guy who took your tuition money for a fake university? How is that not relevant?
jm192
Footballguy
Hey man, I love you. I get this a lot. I siad a few posts ago that Biil Maher was my favorite Democrat. The problem with the Dems is they are not critical of themselves, especially in this forum. Bill is. Let's get real. What's next?
Doesnt matter. But as far as Ukraine aid and sanctions against Russia what Trump has done far exceeds Obama. That's just a fact despite this Biden thing. The half billion and weapons you are talking about were released to them. But Russia!
zoonation
Footballguy
Not strictly on the facts. He’s SE’s d there too btw.
but as a citizen and voter, knowing he is a grifter’s grifter, how could you ever give that guy the benefit of the doubt?
the facts are already overwhelming. John Grisham couldn’t spin a narrative that exonerates Trump on the Ukraine ####.
Politics aside. Trump is dead in the water on the Ukraine ####. If you are okay with it, and justify it politically, then fine. But own that. Don’t embarrass yourself by saying he didn’t do it. We all know he did it.
It is liberating to say you know he did it but Liz Warren as prez is worse than stumping for this lying narcissist.
I get that. I just wish people would own it.
So if people would just say Trump is worse than Warren then you could sleep well in Canada tonight? No. Healthcare for all would bankrupt the US.
zoonation
Footballguy
I know you won’t believe this, but I am conservative. As conservative as a Canadian can be, really. I get taxed a #### ton. And I think government is inherently wasteful.
But I believe there is a baseline for what our leaders should be.
Ah yes, the morality argument. I get it. Let me point out that 3 or 4 of the 10 commandments arent even illegal. And our government spending is much worse. But at least if we are talking about the issues now we aren't waisting time on the faux impeachment thing.
zoonation
Footballguy
I just couldn’t support a guy who put his own political interests above my country’s.
even if I agreed with his policies. It’s thug bull####.
HFS. I'm watching reruns and Pelosi was on Maher last week.
Shes a mess. She actually believed Repub Senators were going to jump on board with her.
Bill said it was Charlie Brown and the football.
Pelosi is Charlie Brown and she missed the football and fell on her back. Again.
Wow.
Shes a mess. She actually believed Repub Senators were going to jump on board with her.
Bill said it was Charlie Brown and the football.
Pelosi is Charlie Brown and she missed the football and fell on her back. Again.
Wow.
zoonation
Footballguy
I know what you’re saying. Where is the tangible harm? Look at the Dow!
This guy is a snake oil salesman. Always has been. The “harm” is the erosion of American idealism and , as Tim would say, American exceptionalism.
i know that sounds like puffery, but it is a real thing. The world is not a better place with an American leader like Trump.
We’ll survive, and America will still be the greatest country on earth. But Trump makes it less so. Fundamentally.
Link to your claim? TIA. Unless this is just your opinion.
ETA: I was hoping for some specific examples, like I said.
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Snorkelson
Footballguy
The White House denies her version of events- they say she didn’t point Ukraine out correctly on the map. I’m wondering if pompeo and his staff can point correctly to Ukraine.
Still just bonkers that he had his staff get an unmarked map...
Snorkelson
Footballguy
At least 13 Ukrainian soldiers were killed while President Donald Trump's administration was withholding military aid from the country from mid-July to mid-September.
The men, aged from 20 to 45, are among at least 78 Ukrainian soldiers killed in action up to mid-September this year in the east of the country, according to various local media and Ukrainian government reports.
It is impossible to say whether timely delivery of American aid would have helped any individual soldier. But their deaths are a potent reminder that while the Trump administration was wrangling over military assistance, Kiev was—and remains—locked in a deadly struggle with its Russian-backed separatist adversaries.
Link
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Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
The New York Times editorial board reported last March, “The Obama administration estimated that over its two terms drone strikes had killed between 64 and 116 civilians in 542 airstrikes outside the major war zones.” Other experts calculated the civilian death toll closer to 324.
msommer
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
President Donald Trump, on March 6, 2019, signed an executive order revoking the requirement that U.S. intelligence officials publicly report the number of civilians killed in Counter-Terrorism missions in Areas Outside of Active Hostilities. It's worth noting, however, civilian casualties by global US operations are still reported and made public, persaunt to Section 1057of the National Defense Authorisation Act of 2018.[23] The Trump administration had previously ignored a May 2018 deadline for an annual accounting of civilian and enemy casualties required under Executive Order 13732[24] signed in 2016 by Barack Obama.[25][26]
dont know why you posted those Obama stats. I responded to “what harm has the president caused” by reminding that there is a war going on in Ukraine and people are dying, and they are a strategic ally.
Ill add that I don’t doubt the numbers here or anything, and I think we should have a conversation about powers granted the president after 9-11.
Ive also never served in the military and hope to leave that to the experts, and would hope that our experts are held accountable when necessary.
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I have, that's a river in Egypt.Have you tried addressing your overwhelming denial?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Because I dont believe in wins and losses. I believe in right and wrong. If more people did then we wouldn't be the divided nation that we are.
This is an assumption in your part and I disagree with you. In fact, our position has already degraded with China rising to take that mantle and, for pessimists like me, even our survival as a democracy is in jeopardy. I don’t think we can overestimate the fundamental damage being done. And to be clear, I blame the GOP as much as Trump. He is the petulant teenager: they are the adults that are enabling him.
The Commish
Footballguy
It was a bonafide, 10000000% guarantee that they wouldn't be doing this. You MIGHT get Collins to flip the switch now, but none of the others were ever going to. Observe actions and ignore the words Tim. It will better serve you moving forward.
timschochet
Footballguy
The wow is that you completely misunderstood both Pelosi and Maher. Pelosi stated what she thinks should happen and of course she’s right. But she knows what will happen. Maher is a cynic but he knows the impeachment result, not necessarily the acquittal but no witnesses, is going to lead to Trump’s demise. Oh and please don’t post that dumb “link to your claim” line again; it’s tired. This whole post is my ####### opinion.
timschochet
Footballguy
If you read my posts I predicted this from the start. I knew they could never allow Bolton in particular to testify. But I did figure they’d allow a few like Collins and Romney to go the other way for show. Doesn’t look like it now.
But I also stand by what I wrote last night: once they vote down witnesses it’s all anybody is ever going to remember about this impeachment trial. And it’s going to haunt Trump for the rest of his life: he was impeached, the system was rigged, he got away with it.
Trump = OJ
timschochet
Footballguy
So despite the outcome being predictable, there are some fascinating questions we have yet to find out the answers to (though we will start to know in a few hours):
1. How much with the defense team attack the Bidens? Many Republican Senators have said they really don’t want this (even Lindsay Graham.) But it’s apparent that Trump does.
2. If they go after the Bidens, how will that affect Biden’s chances in the nomination? In the general, if he is the nominee?
3. How will Dershowitz’s “The President can do anything so long as there’s no written law against it” argument fly with the public?
1. How much with the defense team attack the Bidens? Many Republican Senators have said they really don’t want this (even Lindsay Graham.) But it’s apparent that Trump does.
2. If they go after the Bidens, how will that affect Biden’s chances in the nomination? In the general, if he is the nominee?
3. How will Dershowitz’s “The President can do anything so long as there’s no written law against it” argument fly with the public?
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
If the justification for impeachment is because a few people died then we should impeach every president and congressman that ever held office.
The Commish
Footballguy
This may be true. I think the only time he'll ever think about it is when he's out in the media (we know he'll never take a back seat to any President ever again) and people bring it up. He'll lash out every time. In his mind he'll know that he got away with it and he'll be proud of that fact. I wouldn't be shocked if he actually confesses such things in an interview after he's out of office honestly. History does a good job of melting away the emotion. When all this is done and history reflects, it will show the clear path our politicians have put us on. First, it was ok that a politician could lie under oath. Now it's ok for a politician to abuse his/her power/office. Those are the precedents that will have been set by the end of this fiasco. We are clearly on the wrong track and it appears only the electorate cares to do the right thing.
There's also the whole "abuse of power by withholding aid that was already released by Congress in order to get dirt on a political opponent" justification, too.
moleculo
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
The justification is the fact he did it for nothing more than political capital. Quit putting words in my mouth- I was responding to @tonydead as to what harm occurred.
sho nuff
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
good point....the popular vote and turnout in November will tell us what we need to know for sure. When I made that comment, I was thinking primarily of the 2018 midterms and the demographics we observed there. If that continues I will be convinced.
sho nuff
Footballguy
They have been focusing in both...tell mitch to bring some bills to the senate floor.
Time will tell, of course, but I have a hunch (and a hope) that the closing 20 minutes or so of Schiff’s speech on night two will be remembered.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Not sure about about Graham not wanting them to attack the Bidens...I am hearing this morning he wants them to go after the Bidens. The defense is going to have credibility issues as they had some monster lies in their opening statements. Why did they say that Republicans were not allowed in the Skiff? Anybody smarter than a doorknob knows that’s not true. And if they attack the Bidens without credible sources that will only strengthen support for Biden. They better not go after Vindman, Taylor, Yavanovich, either. Nothing turned me off more to Trump than his attack on Mueller.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
He will finish his term and be arrested in New York. While on trial in New York, he will be indicted on federal charges.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Audio tape emerges from back in April of 2018 of Trump , Parnas, and others discussing removing the Ambassador of Ukraine. The issue is not so much about the vulgarity, or Trump saying “take her out”. It is the insistence that Trump says he doesn’t know Paras Darn it it has to be hard to support this pathological liar. How do you guys do that?
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/listen-abc-news-releases-audio-from-reported-trump-dinner-talking-yovanovitch-with-parnas-fruman/
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/listen-abc-news-releases-audio-from-reported-trump-dinner-talking-yovanovitch-with-parnas-fruman/
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timschochet
Footballguy
You know I’m pretty confident that Trump and the Republicans will be punished for this in November. But if it doesn’t happen, if Trump gets re-elected, that doesn’t really matter either. In the end he’ll still be a pariah.
Trumpism (corrupt white populism) is a passing phase. Demographics are dooming this current Republican Party. Trump represents a last defiant gasp, and it may last the next 5 years- I doubt it but it may. Beyond that it’s done. The main conflict in this country in years to come will be between centrist Democrats and progressive Democrats, with the winner in charge. The Republican Party will be regional and impotent in terms of national politics.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Rania Khalek @RaniaKhalek
This exceptionalism is unbelievably delusional. America locks up more people than any other country, tend of thousands die every year due to lack of health insurance, billionaires own our politicians & media and we prop up dictators all over the place. What is this guy smoking?
The US snatches babies from their parents and puts them in cages. You think people around the world see that as inspiration for freedom and the rule of law? Lol
Do politicians like Schiff actually believe the nonsense they spew?
This exceptionalism is unbelievably delusional. America locks up more people than any other country, tend of thousands die every year due to lack of health insurance, billionaires own our politicians & media and we prop up dictators all over the place. What is this guy smoking?
The US snatches babies from their parents and puts them in cages. You think people around the world see that as inspiration for freedom and the rule of law? Lol
Do politicians like Schiff actually believe the nonsense they spew?
timschochet
Footballguy
Lol according to what is being reported now not only have the Republicans decided against no witnesses and no evidence, but they’re leaning towards having the the final debate (regarding voting on the articles) behind closed doors. So that they can simply vote to acquit without having to offer any public justification of said vote.
timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
One of the features of people who use compromising material is that they are comfortable with others having compromising material on them. This is the second time Trump has been taped while criming. It already happened with Cohen. Who knows what Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman have on this. It's in the hands of the SDNY, who also handled the Cohen case.
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whoknew
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
We need to be asking ourselves what we can be doing better to convince more voters that the president is not fit for re-election because right now we're not getting through to enough of them.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Not in this case. Congressional subpoenas are valid and enforceable on their face. Refusing to abide by them without even citing a legal reason is obstruction of Congress.
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