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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (11 Viewers)

kwille said:
A short term win for some. A long term and potentially permanent handicap for the Nation. Collectively, we're not at our best right now. This is a low moment.
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I agree. If the democrats would actually do their job and help the president ‘ just think what we could do as a country.

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
Here is why impeachment failed:

1. Accused Trump of doing what Biden did (quid pro quo, bribery, influencing a foreign power for personal gain)

2. 17 witnesses, not zero as the propaganda outlets keep trying to spin. 17 witnesses and not a single one of them had first hand knowledge of a crime. It was all opinions, feelings, and heresay.

3. Claiming that investigating a company (which the Obama administration also called corrupt) that paid the VP's degenerate son (yes, a brother's widow banging while still married, impregnating a stripper in the champagne room, kicked out of the Navy for cocaine use, and an extensive history of crack abuse, he is 100% degenerate) millions of dollars... claiming this was only motivated by influencing the 2020 election is absurd. 

While many Americans are susceptible to broken record propaganda like "no witnesses = death of democracy", anyone who isn't a full blown obsessed Trump hater looks at the actual facts of the Dems case and says "where is the crime". No crime, no impeachment.

Quit the partisan bull#### and attempts to remove a duly elected president and do your jobs Congress. 
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I’ll take your advice here.....

🇺🇸

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I agree. If the democrats would actually do their job and help the president ‘ just think what we could do as a country.
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Spare us. The GOP led Senate just turned the Constitution into 230 year old toilet paper, and that was after McConnell sat on hundreds of bills sent to him because he refuses to do his job. The good news for me is that the GOP has now lost my vote in every national election for the foreseeable future, so that makes voting easier.

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
Here is why impeachment failed:

1. Accused Trump of doing what Biden did (quid pro quo, bribery, influencing a foreign power for personal gain)

2. 17 witnesses, not zero as the propaganda outlets keep trying to spin. 17 witnesses and not a single one of them had first hand knowledge of a crime. It was all opinions, feelings, and heresay.

3. Claiming that investigating a company (which the Obama administration also called corrupt) that paid the VP's degenerate son (yes, a brother's widow banging while still married, impregnating a stripper in the champagne room, kicked out of the Navy for cocaine use, and an extensive history of crack abuse, he is 100% degenerate) millions of dollars... claiming this was only motivated by influencing the 2020 election is absurd. 

While many Americans are susceptible to broken record propaganda like "no witnesses = death of democracy", anyone who isn't a full blown obsessed Trump hater looks at the actual facts of the Dems case and says "where is the crime". No crime, no impeachment.

Quit the partisan bull#### and attempts to remove a duly elected president and do your jobs Congress. 
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Pretty small minority of people don’t want witnesses in this impeachment trial. It’s something like 70-30 in favor of. 

 
Herb said:
I for one am damn glad I care about more than the size of my 401k and/or stock portfolio.  The line of thinking that money is the most important thing is shallow, selfish and ultimately destructive. 
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My retirement funds are doing great but the farm economy sucks. I wish my retirement fund sucked and the farm economy was booming.

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
Here is why impeachment failed:
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Impeachment didn’t fail. The House Representatives successfully impeached Donald Trump, and in so doing brought honor to that body and to the Constitution. 

Removal failed. It failed because some people who know better, who know right from wrong, decided to put party over country. That or they were scared of their voters. Not sure which is worse. In any case, neither they nor the President will ever be able to wipe off the stain of what has happened here. 

 
JB Breakfast Club said:
Every time this country hits rock bottom, we discover another, rockier bottom underneath. 
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We slaughtered the indigenous people here, enslaved Africans, and interned Japanese Americans. This latest debacle isn’t that big a deal compared to that stuff. We’ve been a lot lower. 

And in any case there are signs that even now we're starting to climb out of it. 

 
timschochet said:
We slaughtered the indigenous people here, enslaved Africans, and interned Japanese Americans. This latest debacle isn’t that big a deal compared to that stuff. We’ve been a lot lower. 

And in any case there are signs that even now we're starting to climb out of it. 
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I guess we'll see. Hard to get excited when a president openly flouts the rule of law thanks to a complicit Senate. Granted, there are ways to stop this, but there's no guarantee that those things will actually happen.

 
Kal El said:
I guess we'll see. Hard to get excited when a president openly flouts the rule of law thanks to a complicit Senate. Granted, there are ways to stop this, but there's no guarantee that those things will actually happen.
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Just remember the following facts: 

1. There are more of us than of them. 

2. Most of them (those that support Donald Trump) are good, well meaning people- they’re just cynical about our government and think everybody is equally corrupt. And they’ve been fed some bad information for years. They’re being lied to and taken advantage of by a con man and eventually they WILL figure that out. 

 
cubd8 said:
I didn't say Trump and I agree with you that he doesn't get it. I do think more Republican members of Congress privately agree that he was wrong.

My question though - is there any rational conclusion that leads a Republican to agree with the charges, but not the punishment (removal from office)?
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Using the traditional definition of "rational"?  IMO, no.  If we step back and think about the precedent being set, it's mind boggling the possibilities really.

 
timschochet said:
Just remember the following facts: 

1. There are more of us than of them. 

2. Most of them (those that support Donald Trump) are good, well meaning people- they’re just cynical about our government and think everybody is equally corrupt. And they’ve been fed some bad information for years. They’re being lied to and taken advantage of by a con man and eventually they WILL figure that out. 
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In fairness, I'm also cynical of our government, that's part of why I'm an independent voter. As for them figuring out they're being lied to, is there a way to help that along, and more importantly, will they really care that much?

 
The Commish said:
Using the traditional definition of "rational"?  IMO, no.  If we step back and think about the precedent being set, it's mind boggling the possibilities really.
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This is the one area I kind of disagree with most people here that are “on my side.” I really don’t think there is much precedent being set here. Donald Trump strikes me as a unique individual in our history. I don’t think we’ll ever have another President like him (I hope not anyhow!) I have strong doubts that anything that works for Trump will work for anyone else. 

Let me offer you a thought experiment: let’s suppose Trump decides in 2015 not to run for President. The nomination is won by Marco Rubio. Let’s say it’s a normal Republican Presidency but then Rubio does the exact same thing with the Ukraine that Trump did: how would that play out? I think very differently. Not that Rubio would have been ultimately removed but the trial would have gone differently because Rubio lacks the populist fan base that Trump has. 

 
Kal El said:
In fairness, I'm also cynical of our government, that's part of why I'm an independent voter. As for them figuring out they're being lied to, is there a way to help that along, and more importantly, will they really care that much?
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1. None of us can help that along nearly as much as the United States Senate did this morning. 

2. Yes but they’ll never admit it. People don’t like to admit they’re wrong. But I believe some of them will quietly sit home in November. 

I could be wrong about this or course. At the moment Trump continues to draw record, enthusiastic crowds and maybe that will last through the end of the year. It’s really hard to predict how long populist movements last. Eventually though they all wane. 

 
timschochet said:
This is the one area I kind of disagree with most people here that are “on my side.” I really don’t think there is much precedent being set here. Donald Trump strikes me as a unique individual in our history. I don’t think we’ll ever have another President like him (I hope not anyhow!) I have strong doubts that anything that works for Trump will work for anyone else. 

Let me offer you a thought experiment: let’s suppose Trump decides in 2015 not to run for President. The nomination is won by Marco Rubio. Let’s say it’s a normal Republican Presidency but then Rubio does the exact same thing with the Ukraine that Trump did: how would that play out? I think very differently. Not that Rubio would have been ultimately removed but the trial would have gone differently because Rubio lacks the populist fan base that Trump has. 
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I think you're delusional.  I mean that in the nicest possible way which still isn't very nice.  In my voting life time (I am 45 years old), our politicians have established that it's ok to lie under oath and it's ok to use the office of the President for personal gain.  That is astonishing to me.  This playbook of Trump's isn't rocket science.  It's not even novel.  We need to stop pretending that the "fan base" is nuanced in any meaningful way.  It's not.

 
Widbil83 said:
The 2-4 Democrat Senators who are going to vote with the Republicans. 

The only question left is how many Democrat Senators will vote country over party. 
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meh...we all know that the vulnerable ones from both parties will be allowed to "break ranks" if they want to.  Some will probably be told to.  Politics 101...not really all that meaningful if we're being genuine here...which, I know, is a big IF.

 
Guess we will just have to keep our fingers crossed that Trump won’t tip the scales in a close election by cheating.  I mean it’s not like a jail cell next to Michael Cohen is waiting for him if he loses.

 
While many have talked about abolishing the electoral college but to see a Wyoming with a population of 577,000, North Dakota and South Dakota under 1 million as well to have 2 Senators each while a California which has 39 million also have 2 Senators doesn’t seem right. I understand the need to have equal representation based on land mass up to a point but I could support seeing states with a population under 1 million only getting 1 Senator. Even then there would be no where near equal Senate representation based on population but would seem somewhat more logical.

 
timschochet said:
1. None of us can help that along nearly as much as the United States Senate did this morning. 

2. Yes but they’ll never admit it. People don’t like to admit they’re wrong. But I believe some of them will quietly sit home in November. 

I could be wrong about this or course. At the moment Trump continues to draw record, enthusiastic crowds and maybe that will last through the end of the year. It’s really hard to predict how long populist movements last. Eventually though they all wane. 
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I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 
timschochet said:
This is the one area I kind of disagree with most people here that are “on my side.” I really don’t think there is much precedent being set here. Donald Trump strikes me as a unique individual in our history. I don’t think we’ll ever have another President like him (I hope not anyhow!) I have strong doubts that anything that works for Trump will work for anyone else. 

Let me offer you a thought experiment: let’s suppose Trump decides in 2015 not to run for President. The nomination is won by Marco Rubio. Let’s say it’s a normal Republican Presidency but then Rubio does the exact same thing with the Ukraine that Trump did: how would that play out? I think very differently. Not that Rubio would have been ultimately removed but the trial would have gone differently because Rubio lacks the populist fan base that Trump has. 
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Bad example Tim, Rubio said this today....

Rubio: "Just because actions meet a standard of impeachment does not mean it is in the best interest of the country to remove a President from office."

 
Joe Bryant said:
How would you suggest they use it?
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As aggressively as McConnell does. He wields power like he’s not so much in a democracy as a back alley knife fight. Admittedly it’s effective but corrosive for democracy. He completely stopped any progress while team D was in power and used any means necessary when he was in power. Obama wasted years trying to work with these guys when they said day one their only agenda was to ruin him. Never mind what’s good for the country. So the needle had been moved steadily right for 40 year’s and in my opinion the citizens have suffered for it. 
 

Dems need to understand what kind of people they are operating against and act accordingly. I haven’t seen an ounce of good faith in Republicans in a generation. So be it. Off with the gloves and let’s mix it up for once. 

 
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lazyike said:
While many have talked about abolishing the electoral college but to see a Wyoming with a population of 577,000, North Dakota and South Dakota under 1 million as well to have 2 Senators each while a California which has 39 million also have 2 Senators doesn’t seem right. I understand the need to have equal representation based on land mass up to a point but I could support seeing states with a population under 1 million only getting 1 Senator. Even then there would be no where near equal Senate representation based on population but would seem somewhat more logical.
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Another solution could be fewer states. Why do you need two Dakotas? The Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana would do fine with only one legislature and two senators. Think about all the money saved and how small government would become

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Herb said:
for one am damn glad I care about more than the size of my 401k and/or stock portfolio.  The line of thinking that money is the most important thing is shallow, selfish and ultimately destructive. 
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About 1/3 of the workforce has a 401k
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We have also seen similar results under normal conditions...like the last president. And the next Dem president before him. Guess that one was impeached as well for lying although he did testify, allowed his people to testified.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Apparently Trumps approval rating has climbed since the sham impeachment. Great strategy dems, you guys are right on top of things.
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The only ones who see a political "strategy" in impeachment proceedings are the Republicans. Justice isn't important, laws aren't important, the only thing that's important is keeping our Master in power because we're afraid of what he can do to us if we don't.

 
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Ditka Butkus said:
What a huge win for Trump and equally huge loss for the Democrats. Quite a kick in the junk. Just say uncle, the dems are getting slapped around like Billy Bob Thrton in Tombstone... Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed.
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More like Jimmy Stewart in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, being bullied by a thug criminal and expecting the law to matter. The good news is that eventually, it does.

 
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