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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (4 Viewers)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
Full Wapo article.

Barr personally asked foreign officials to aid inquiry into CIA, FBI activities in 2016

Attorney General William P. Barr has held private meetings overseas with foreign intelligence officials seeking their help in a Justice Department inquiry that President Trump hopes will discredit U.S. intelligence agencies’ examination of Russian interference in the 2016 election, according to people familiar with the matter.

Barr’s personal involvement is likely to stoke further criticism from Democrats pursuing impeachment that he is helping the Trump administration use executive branch powers to augment investigations aimed primarily at the president’s adversaries.

But the high level Justice Department focus on intelligence operatives’ conduct will likely cheer Trump and other conservatives for whom “investigate the investigators” has become a rallying cry.

The direct involvement of the nation’s top law enforcement official shows the priority Barr places on the investigation being conducted by John Durham, the U.S. attorney in Connecticut, who has been assigned the sensitive task of reviewing U.S. intelligence work surrounding the 2016 election and its aftermath.

The attorney general’s active role also underscores the degree to which a nearly three-year old election still consumes significant resources and attention inside the federal government. Current and former intelligence and law enforcement officials expressed frustration and alarm Monday that the head of the Justice Department was taking such a direct role in re-examining what they view as conspiracy theories and baseless allegations of misconduct.

Barr has already made overtures to British intelligence officials, and last week the attorney general traveled to Italy, where he and Durham met senior Italian government officials and Barr asked the Italians to assist Durham, according to one person familiar with the matter. It was not Barr’s first trip to Italy to meet intelligence officials, the person said. The Trump administration has made similar requests of Australia, these people said.

In a recent phone call, Trump urged Australia’s prime minister to provide assistance to the ongoing Justice Department inquiry, according to a person familiar with the matter. Trump made the request at Barr’s urging, people familiar with the matter said. The Trump phone call was first reported by the New York Times.

A White House spokeswoman referred questions to the Justice Department.

Kerri Kupec, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said, “Mr. Durham is gathering information from numerous sources, including a number of foreign countries. At Attorney General Barr’s request, the President has contacted other countries to ask them to introduce the Attorney General and Mr. Durham to appropriate officials.”

In a statement, a spokesperson for the Australian government said it has “always been ready to assist and cooperate with efforts that help shed further light on the matters under investigation. The [prime minister] confirmed this readiness once again in conversation with the President.”

Trump still complains frequently that those involved in the investigation of his campaign should be charged with crimes, asserting the FBI search for possible election season collusion between Russia and Trump campaign officials was a witch hunt, spurred by agents and bureaucrats opposed to Trump becoming president. That investigation ended earlier this year when special counsel Robert S. Mueller III determined there was insufficient evidence to charge any Americans with conspiring with Russia, and declined to reach a decision about whether the president had sought to obstruct justice.

David Laufman, a former Justice Department official who was involved in the early stages of the Russia probe, said it was “fairly unorthodox for the attorney general personally to be flying around the world as a point person to further evidence-gathering for a specific Justice Department investigation,” and especially so in Barr’s case.

“Even if one questions, as a threshold matter, the propriety of conducting a re-investigation of the Justice Department’s own prior investigation of Russia’s interference, the appointment of John Durham — a seasoned, nonpartisan prosecutor — provided some reason to believe that it would be handled in a professional, nonpartisan manner,” Laufman said. “But if the attorney general is essentially running this investigation, that entire premise is out the window.”

Barr’s direct involvement in the effort also helps explain part of the controversial July phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. A rough transcript of that call shows Trump said he wanted Ukrainian assistance to help find out “what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine,” and possible involvement with the Democratic National Committee computer system that U.S. agencies have determined was hacked by Russian intelligence ahead of the 2016 election.

Some of the president’s supporters have suggested Ukraine had a more direct role in the 2016 investigation than currently known, an assertion denied by current and former officials who were involved in the original probe.

A person familiar with Barr’s interactions with foreign officials described them as being official introductions to Durham. The attorney general “is telling people he wants to make sure that the rules governing U.S. agencies have been followed,” this person said.

A spokesperson for the CIA declined to comment, citing the ongoing review.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official denied the CIA was involved in monitoring any members of the Trump campaign. Any such operations were conducted by the FBI and were lawful, the former official said, emphasizing that the CIA focused on Russia’s interference in the election and the role that Russian officials and intelligence agencies played.

Democrats are likely to bristle at the notion of the attorney general devoting personal time and energy to traveling overseas asking foreign countries to assist in an investigation of U.S. agencies and personnel, particularly since Democrats have accused Barr in the past of acting in Trump’s interests at the expense of the Justice Department’s independence.

Last week, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) accused the attorney general of “going rogue” because the Justice Department determined the substance of an explosive whistleblower’s complaint alleging that Trump pressured Zelensky to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son Hunter, over Hunter Biden’s past position on the board of a Ukrainian energy company.

House Democrats have launched an impeachment inquiry to further probe the interactions of Trump and his lawyer with the Ukrainians.

During the call with his Ukrainian counterpart, Trump suggested Barr and his personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, could help Zelensky’s government investigate the matter. A spokeswoman for Barr has said the attorney general was unaware of any such effort, and had not spoken to the president about the issue, nor to Ukrainian authorities.

Giuliani has met with Ukrainian officials and urged them to investigate the Bidens, but insists there is nothing improper about that. Giuliani has declined to discuss Durham’s investigation.

Barr’s conversations with foreign counterparts have raised concerns among some intelligence officials that he may be seeking to substantiate conspiracy theories raised by some on the political right to defend Trump.

One area that has been of sustained interest to Barr and Durham, according to people familiar with the matter, is a murky figure named Joseph Mifsud.

Mifsud, a European academic, was publicly linked to Russian interference efforts in late 2017, when Mueller revealed a guilty plea by former Trump campaign staffer George Papadopoulos, who admitted he’d lied to the FBI about the details of his interactions with Mifsud.

Those conversations included an April 2016 meeting in which Mifsud allegedly alerted Papadopoulos that the Russians had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton, in the form of thousands of emails.

A version of that conversation was relayed to U.S. authorities later that summer by an Australian diplomat who had talked to Papadopoulos over drinks in London.

Shortly after his name surfaced publicly, Mifsud told Italian media he did not work for Russia. “I never got any money from the Russians: my conscience is clear,” Mifsud told La Repubblica. “I am not a secret agent.”

Since then, the professor has disappeared from public life, leading to a host of theories about him and his whereabouts. While court papers filed in Mueller’s investigation suggested Mifsud operated in Russia’s interests, conservatives and conspiracy theorists have suggested he was instead aligned with Western intelligence agencies.

In an interview on Fox News in April, Giuliani called Mifsud “a counterintelligence operative, either Maltese or Italian,” who took part in what sounded to him like a “counterintelligence trap” against Papadopoulos.

It’s unclear what Durham or Barr have come to suspect about Mifsud.

Barr met with British officials in London over the summer to discuss the Durham probe, said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the investigation. In those conversations, according to this official, Barr expressed a belief that the U.S. investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election stemmed from some corrupt origin, the official said.

It was not clear what Barr thought was amiss, but he expressed a suspicion that information had been improperly gathered overseas about people connected with the Trump campaign, and that the British may have unwittingly assisted those efforts, the official said.

Another person familiar with Barr’s efforts denied that characterization, saying he has been seeking cooperation for Durham’s work, and not trying to promote a particular theory or accusation against U.S. agents and officers.

“It’s well known within the intelligence community that you cannot ask another government to do something that you’re prohibited from doing. That it is standard operating procedure,” said a former national security official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

An executive order governing U.S. intelligence activities states that no intelligence agency “shall participate in or request any person to undertake activities forbidden” by the order, which was issued in 1981.

As a young man, Barr worked as a lawyer at the CIA and has an ongoing interest in intelligence matters, according to those who know him well. In his public comments about the Russia interference investigation, he has suggested there were failures among former FBI leaders, and that intelligence agency rules about spying on Americans should be scrupulously followed regardless of party affiliation.

There are two primary efforts underway to scrutinize the 2016 investigation and its aftermath. Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz is expected to issue in the coming weeks a lengthy report analyzing work done by the FBI and Justice Department to pursue alleged Russian election interference, and the applications for a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court order that approved electronic surveillance of the communications of Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser.

Separately, Durham is taking a broader look at the actions of intelligence agencies overseas and domestically. Durham has a long track record of being tasked with difficult investigations that involve the CIA or other intelligence agencies. His past investigations have often lasted years, so it’s unclear when Durham’s review might wrap up, but it is unlikely to be soon, according to people familiar with the matter.

Before Durham’s appointment, another U.S. attorney was tasked with reviewing the Clinton email investigation, but the results of that work are still unknown. The multiple investigations show just how much the political conflict of 2016 continues to be an obsession within the government.

Last week, The Washington Post reported that State Department security officials were re-examining aspects of the Clinton email investigation, in which State Department business was conducted on Hillary Clinton’s private server when she was Secretary of State.


  Reveal hidden contents
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HFS   :shock:

 
In short, the ICIG did not find that the Complainant could “provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions,” which would have made it much harder, and significantly less likely, for the Inspector General to determine in a 14-calendar day review period that the complaint “appeared credible,” as required by statute.

Therefore, although the Complainant’s Letter acknowledged that the Complainant was not a direct witness to the President’s July 25, 2019, telephone call with the Ukrainian President, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community determined that other information obtained during the ICIG’s preliminary review supported the Complainant’s allegations.
Click to expand...

 
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/peaceful-resolution-secretary-state-mike-pompeo/story?id=65770906

Pompeo on ABC News [Last] Week (fast forward to 07:30 in the video) where he is asked what he knows about the phone call to Ukraine President Zelensky. Pompeo then stammers for a few moments while he tries to come up with a response. And the stammering is very reminiscent of the now infamous video when Manafort stumbled all over himself in response to a question about Russian meddling. 

This is pretty funny knowing what we know now. 

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
[scooter] said:
I don't think we've arrived at the point of Trump being against the wall. It seems to me that Trump is still just doing his standard "accuse my accuser" stuff (which he's been doing all of his life) -- the only difference being that the accusations have been ramped up a notch.

Trump still has lots of outs at this point.

If McConnell actually schedules a trial, THEN I think we'll see Trump in his full-blown "#### is about to go down" mode.
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Hit f5

 
dawgtrails said:
So you admit that you would just rather parrot the talkign points and assume that democrats = bad?
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Parrot?  You guys are pathetic.  I read this forum and ask questions and look at the supposed facts with some skepticism.  I parrot no one and have no idea what the right wing media is saying ever.   Some people always have to make it personal. 

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
In short, the ICIG did not find that the Complainant could “provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions,” which would have made it much harder, and significantly less likely, for the Inspector General to determine in a 14-calendar day review period that the complaint “appeared credible,” as required by statute.

Therefore, although the Complainant’s Letter acknowledged that the Complainant was not a direct witness to the President’s July 25, 2019, telephone call with the Ukrainian President, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community determined that other information obtained during the ICIG’s preliminary review supported the Complainant’s allegations.
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What is the "other" information? Where did it come from?

 
jon_mx said:
Parrot?  You guys are pathetic.  I read this forum and ask questions and look at the supposed facts with some skepticism.  I parrot no one and have no idea what the right wing media is saying ever.   Some people always have to make it personal. 
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The statements you’ve made about Hunter Biden are pure GOP talking points and mostly flat out false, wherever you got them. 

 
BigJim® said:
This seems like something that is just going to muddy a clear cut situation. Even if there are a dozen whistleblower complaints, that is the sort of thing that defenders want... so many arms and legs that it is easy to obfuscate, and the public will be too overwhelmed to process as anything but political motive. The only focus should be on Ukraine.
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I don't think so. This complaint is about Trump officials improperly influencing the IRS audit into his taxes ("don't look over there or things won't go well for you") . It's simple and unconnected to the Ukraine malfeasance. Everybody who has ever filed a tax return will understand what was happening if it's proven true and it's another basic building block into shaping American opinion that he is unfit for duty.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
So, in short, Trump & Pals are running around the world with our national security hoisted on a stick pressuring foreign governments to get them to discredit our intelligence agencies and influence our elections, after Russia attacked our elections in 2016 and as they are preparing to do again in 2020, basically because they need it for the campaign and Trump's ego and maybe criminal defense (and I suppose Roger Stone's as well).
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Hearsay

 
tri-man 47 said:
I'm surprised how Betsy DeVos has stayed under the radar ...Ben Carson, too.  
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Didn't carson spend $10,000 on a new secure room, or something like that?  It seems like someone in Trump's team did that - so maybe they are just hiding out in the safe room until the all clear signal.

 
Love how Fox is spinning the whistle blower.  The person didn't have first hand knowledge! 

When pressed that the whistle blower was correct...

But it isn't first hand knowledge!

 
jon_mx said:
Parrot?  You guys are pathetic.  I read this forum and ask questions and look at the supposed facts with some skepticism.  I parrot no one and have no idea what the right wing media is saying ever.   Some people always have to make it personal. 
Click to expand...
Oh bull####.

You repeated Rush Limbaughs main talking point almost verbatim when you claimed this was about overturning the 2016 election.

 
jon_mx said:
Parrot?  You guys are pathetic.  I read this forum and ask questions and look at the supposed facts with some skepticism.  I parrot no one and have no idea what the right wing media is saying ever.   Some people always have to make it personal. 
Click to expand...
Then youshould know..... you're saying the exact same things trump's defenders are..... almost verbatim. It's a strange coincidence that happens rather regularly. Just so you are aware. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
You are really letting your country down by refusing to see the treason before your eyes. There is no predicate for Barr to be seeking to act as a roving agent to persecute enemies at home and aboard. In fact, all credible information points to a conspiracy by Trump and company to abuse power to make up a narrative to do just that, persecute enemies. I think you’re smart enough to know this. Why are you complicit?
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I have a question, probably semantics, but isn't treason giving aid and comfort to our enemies? Since we aren't at war with the Ukraine, I hesitate to use that word. To me, espionage is a closer fit to what's going on, but impeachable nonetheless.

 
Don't Noonan said:
Not yet.  No
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If in 2015 President Obama had personally asked the Ukraine and Australian President/Prime Minister, and other officials in Italy, to work with AG Eric Holder and Obama's personal attorney to investigate Trump and his kids, you'd be perfectly fine with this. Correct?

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
If in 2015 President Obama had personally asked the Ukraine and Australian President/Prime Minister, and other officials in Italy, to work with AG Eric Holder and Hillary's personal attorney to investigate Trump and his kids, you'd be perfectly fine with this. Correct?
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I wouldn’t. And it still wouldn’t be as bad as this because it wouldn’t have been Obama’s own lawyer. 

 
[scooter] said:
I don't think we've arrived at the point of Trump being against the wall. It seems to me that Trump is still just doing his standard "accuse my accuser" stuff (which he's been doing all of his life) -- the only difference being that the accusations have been ramped up a notch.

Trump still has lots of outs at this point.

If McConnell actually schedules a trial, THEN I think we'll see Trump in his full-blown "#### is about to go down" mode.
Click to expand...
I saw a clip of him recently saying he would have no choice but to start a trial if the house impeaches

 
Kal El said:
I have a question, probably semantics, but isn't treason giving aid and comfort to our enemies? Since we aren't at war with the Ukraine, I hesitate to use that word. To me, espionage is a closer fit to what's going on, but impeachable nonetheless.
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He’s attempting to undermine the intelligence community to aid Russia by claiming Ukraine was actually responsible.  Russia committed acts of interference against our democracy.  There is a very real argument that aiding Russia to try to falsely clear its name on those transgressions in opposition to our intelligence agencies is actual treason. 

 
Henry Ford said:
He’s attempting to undermine the intelligence community to aid Russia by claiming Ukraine was actually responsible.  Russia committed acts of interference against our democracy.  There is a very real argument that aiding Russia to try to falsely clear its name on those transgressions in opposition to our intelligence agencies is actual treason. 
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I don't think it's a stretch at all. I think it's pretty clearly treasonous. 

 
Don't Noonan said:
Setting up to be another nothing burger just like the Russia hoax.  I will be happy to tell you guys I told you so just like I did on the Mueller report.  When will you guys ever learn?   :lmao:
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You said this from day one...while claiming to withhold judgement until you had more facts.

The only thing you have done with the Mueller report is claim to quote  it when you say things that aren't even in the report.  People quote it to you and you ignore it.  And make claims that it was nothing...despite the indictments and the instances of obstruction by POTUS.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
If in 2015 President Obama had personally asked the Ukraine and Australian President/Prime Minister, and other officials in Italy, to work with AG Eric Holder and Obama's personal attorney to investigate Trump and his kids, you'd be perfectly fine with this. Correct?
Click to expand...
Hasn't he already admitted that he's okay with whatever it takes to keep Dems out of office?

 
Rudy ain't snitchin' ....  yet.

Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

I have received a subpoena signed only by Democrat Chairs who have prejudged this case. It raises significant issues concerning legitimacy and constitutional and legal issues including,inter alia, attorney client and other privileges. It will be given appropriate consideration.

Rudy is not even going to look for documents, let alone turn them over.  I think he is hoping for a little street cred in Rikers.  Of course, Rudy has been quoted that he was not working as an attorney during part of this - so I am sure he will see those quotes thrown back at him - not to mention Crime/Fraud exception to Attorney Client privilege

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Rudy ain't snithin' ....  yet.

Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

I have received a subpoena signed only by Democrat Chairs who have prejudged this case. It raises significant issues concerning legitimacy and constitutional and legal issues including,inter alia, attorney client and other privileges. It will be given appropriate consideration.

Rudy is not even going to look for documents, let alone turn them over.  I think he is hoping for a little street cred in Rikers.  Of course, Rudy has been quoted that he was not working as an attorney during part of this - so I am sure he will see those quotes thrown back at him - not to mention Crime/Fraud exception to Attorney Client privilege
Click to expand...
Who uses inter alia in a tweet?

 
Sinn Fein said:
Rudy ain't snithin' ....  yet.

Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

I have received a subpoena signed only by Democrat Chairs who have prejudged this case. It raises significant issues concerning legitimacy and constitutional and legal issues including,inter alia, attorney client and other privileges. It will be given appropriate consideration.

Rudy is not even going to look for documents, let alone turn them over.  I think he is hoping for a little street cred in Rikers.  Of course, Rudy has been quoted that he was not working as an attorney during part of this - so I am sure he will see those quotes thrown back at him - not to mention Crime/Fraud exception to Attorney Client privilege
Click to expand...
One of the dumbest things I can think of to come out of this is that at least a white house executive senior advisor could rely on traditional executive privilege and classified information. But Giuliani's conversations with third persons and especially foreigners abroad won't get executive privilege or attorney privilege treatment. It may set him up for Fara, if nothing else.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Rudy ain't snitchin' ....  yet.

Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

I have received a subpoena signed only by Democrat Chairs who have prejudged this case. It raises significant issues concerning legitimacy and constitutional and legal issues including,inter alia, attorney client and other privileges. It will be given appropriate consideration.

Rudy is not even going to look for documents, let alone turn them over.  I think he is hoping for a little street cred in Rikers.  Of course, Rudy has been quoted that he was not working as an attorney during part of this - so I am sure he will see those quotes thrown back at him - not to mention Crime/Fraud exception to Attorney Client privilege
Click to expand...
Not to mention that even if he provided legal services to Trump, the vast majority of any documents to Ukranians wouldn't be privileged anyway.  But, of course, we're going to see a bull#### invocation of "executive privilege" despite the fact that Rudy isn't in government.  Because it's not as if Trump's lawyers have shown any shame yet.

 
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