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Captain Cranks

Trump's Disinformation Campaign: How are the Dems going to combat this?

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No one is going to convince anyone still on his side that he's full of ####, so don't waste your time on them. Stick to the facts. And tell actual swing voters in states that matter how you will make their lives better.

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Jesus Christ, that story. That stuff is really dangerous for an increasingly shaky democracy. Our decrepit old constitution depended on political leaders doing the right thing sometimes, even when they might not want to. But now it looks like anything goes in the pursuit of power and wealth and I don't think our system is up to it.

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get his taxes

 

get the translator from the secret Putin meetings to testify under oath on camera

 

get Bolton to testify under oath on camera

 

get the Mar-largo visitor lists

 

....... and fight with no gloves on/ call a spade a spade in tv adds:

Trump is a Russian asset

his wife is an illegal / porn actress that got a genius visa

his kids were given security clearance by him after they were told they could not have them by US officials - they have used his office to make profit by soliciting foreign countries / quid pro quo

health care, health care, health care, health care --- he doesn't want Americans to have it & he has no plan

he wants to cut SS / has cuts to SS in his budget

his administration sold nuclear secrets to Saudi Arabia 

target single issue voters like he does (bible, guns, abortion, immigration, now people in Nevada)-- target:  legal weed, college tuition cost, health care cost/cost of medicine, payroll tax

 

if all those FACTS don't work - lie -- he does like 80x a day -- lie like he does

.......  lastly use another of his tricks against him - I'm sure Germany or some country have tapes/ info on him/ his kids - bring it on down

 

 

Edited by leave a whisper
left out a word
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11 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Jesus Christ, that story. That stuff is really dangerous for an increasingly shaky democracy. Our decrepit old constitution depended on political leaders doing the right thing sometimes, even when they might not want to. But now it looks like anything goes in the pursuit of power and wealth and I don't think our system is up to it.

It comes down to the people, and I agree, they're not up to it.  

 

 

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Yeah, that's a depressing article.  If Dems retake power there are probably some things they can do to clean some of this stuff up.  But getting power in this environment won't be easy.  I have no idea what the best strategy is.  I wouldn't feel comfortable adopting the same tactics.

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9 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Yeah, that's a depressing article.  If Dems retake power there are probably some things they can do to clean some of this stuff up.  But getting power in this environment won't be easy.  I have no idea what the best strategy is.  I wouldn't feel comfortable adopting the same tactics.

Only a tiny percentage of voters even know that this is going on. And the ones that do are like you (and me); we have no idea how to fix it.

It could be that authoritarian-oriented people who don't care about progress are just way better at this stuff than we lefties are. Like how computer criminals are always a step ahead of law enforcement.

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

Only a tiny percentage of voters even know that this is going on. And the ones that do are like you (and me); we have no idea how to fix it.

It could be that authoritarian-oriented people who don't care about progress are just way better at this stuff than we lefties are. Like how computer criminals are always a step ahead of law enforcement.

I wouldn't use the word "better" because that sounds complimentary.  They're more willing to engage in these unethical tactics.

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7 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Only a tiny percentage of voters even know that this is going on. And the ones that do are like you (and me); we have no idea how to fix it.

It could be that authoritarian-oriented people who don't care about progress are just way better at this stuff than we lefties are. Like how computer criminals are always a step ahead of law enforcement.

Susnshine is the best anticeptic. Do our best to expose these corrupt practices. Put people on the spot about them. White House information Director. Brad Parscal. Campaign Directors. Trump. Individual Republicans. They are out there online in the public sphere. Expose them to the greatest degree possible. 

Also satire. Crowdsource it. Find this propaganda. Expose it to the larger American Audience. Make fun of it. 

  

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1 minute ago, Jackstraw said:

Also satire. Crowdsource it. Find this propaganda. Expose it to the larger American Audience. Make fun of it. 

  

I don't understand why the Dems are so afraid to go down this road.  Trump and the Republicans give them so much easy content to attack, yet they just stand around and complain.  

Attack them at their core.  They're corrupt liars.  Call them out on it and make fun of them.  They are not to be taken seriously and should be treated as the jokes that they are.  

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Just now, Captain Cranks said:

I don't understand why the Dems are so afraid to go down this road.  Trump and the Republicans give them so much easy content to attack, yet they just stand around and complain.  

Attack them at their core.  They're corrupt liars.  Call them out on it and make fun of them.  They are not to be taken seriously and should be treated as the jokes that they are.  

Can you be more specific about what Democrats are afraid to do?  I hear Democrats calling Republicans corrupt liars all the time.

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2 minutes ago, Jackstraw said:

Susnshine is the best anticeptic. Do our best to expose these corrupt practices. Put people on the spot about them. White House information Director. Brad Parscal. Campaign Directors. Trump. Individual Republicans. They are out there online in the public sphere. Expose them to the greatest degree possible. 

Also satire. Crowdsource it. Find this propaganda. Expose it to the larger American Audience. Make fun of it. 

  

Humor is indeed a great weapon and we're lucky that the right is so terrible at it. Another thing in our favor is that yoot voters aren't nearly as big on Facebook as we dopey Boomers are (I don't have an account, personally). Peer-to-peer social media works best for them and those might be harder networks to penetrate (I don't know much about these, though, I could be way wrong about this).

But it's gonna be a tough fight. Just look, for example, at the number of posters on this board who, despite the influence of the board's best posters, insist on believing and stating information which is factually incorrect. Yeah, I'm a true blue lefty, but I'd like to think that if somebody like MT or Henry Ford or SID posts something thoughtful and well-documented, I'm always gonna be affected by that more than an OAN piece somebody sent me on Facebook.

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Can you be more specific about what Democrats are afraid to do?  I hear Democrats calling Republicans corrupt liars all the time.

Stuff like this...

Have some friggin' personality.  Make fun of these clowns.  They're a joke.  

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17 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

It could be that authoritarian-oriented people who don't care about progress are just way better at this stuff than we lefties are.

Oh my God, this can't be serious. The words "left" and "caudillo" couldn't possibly be found for anything but merger.

The left is authoritarian -- it has to be in order to implement its programs. It must be total. And it must interfere, interfere, interfere.

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You plaster stuff like this all over social media and acknowledge that it's probably happening everywhere to some extent and that people need to be really careful what they fall for while offering outlets that have much less bias as the path forward....that's going to mean going to news sources outside the US though.

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just motivate people to vote, no matter who the candidate is.

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19 minutes ago, The Commish said:

You plaster stuff like this all over social media and acknowledge that it's probably happening everywhere to some extent and that people need to be really careful what they fall for while offering outlets that have much less bias as the path forward....that's going to mean going to news sources outside the US though.

People that fall victim to propaganda will not believe that it's propaganda.  I remember after the 2016 election experts were able to trace certain social media posts to Russian troll farms but when journalists went to ask Americans who had interacted with those Russians about it, the Americans didn't believe it.  Look in the Trump 2020 thread -- they all think the rest of us are the ones being brainwashed.  

Edited by fatguyinalittlecoat
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3 minutes ago, joffer said:

just motivate people to vote, no matter who the candidate is.

Promise them free stuff and say you will punish the rich....  Well at least the other rich ..... 

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They'll probably pay $500 million to create an app that recognizes fake news. And then it won't work.

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

People that fall victim of propaganda will not believe that it's propaganda.  I remember after the 2016 election experts were able to trace certain social media posts to Russian troll farms but when journalists went to ask Americans who had interacted with those Russians about it, the Americans didn't believe it.  Look in the Trump 2020 thread -- they all think the rest of us are the ones being brainwashed.  

Exactly.  That's why the psychological warfare being used is so dangerous.  They can (and have) create any 'reality' they want, preying on the weaknesses of our brains.  People look for things that confirm what they already believe.  People also don't like to admit they're wrong.  Fighting through those biases is very difficult, regardless of reality.

 

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7 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

Promise them free stuff and say you will punish the rich....  Well at least the other rich ..... 

I don't understand. Who is the "other rich?"

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2 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Scary stuff

Reality is becoming less and less important.  What is the Dems counter here?

May I suggest having Lawrence Taylor reprise his role from The Water Boy.  Have the Commercial begin with any Trump statement you want to impugn, and then have Lawrence come on, look into the camera,  and say "That reminds me, Don't do crack!" 

Edited by Ditkaless Wonders

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13 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

People that fall victim of propaganda will not believe that it's propaganda.  I remember after the 2016 election experts were able to trace certain social media posts to Russian troll farms but when journalists went to ask Americans who had interacted with those Russians about it, the Americans didn't believe it.  Look in the Trump 2020 thread -- they all think the rest of us are the ones being brainwashed.  

Don't disagree....I had a 2-3 week conversation with my mother about this.  Simply put, the fact that about 2/3 of her posts being removed should have been an obvious indicator that something was up, but it wasn't.  She couldn't offer me an alternate explanation, but she just KNEW it couldn't be a nefarious third party duping her.  So, now, every one that comes through, I ask her to go research and find the same information on sources x,y,z and if she can't then its probably hatchet jobs.  I also take the time to fully explain all the half truth posts as well.  It's tedious at times, but I don't know of another option at this point if the platforms aren't going to step in.

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31 minutes ago, joffer said:

just motivate people to vote, no matter who the candidate is.

What if people get motivated but vote don`t vote the way you want?

I have been involved in some local campaigns through a friend.  The get out to vote mantra only means 'Get out to vote if you are voting my way"  If you are voting the other way you can stay home. 

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7 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

What if people get motivated but vote don`t vote the way you want?

I have been involved in some local campaigns through a friend.  The get out to vote mantra only means 'Get out to vote if you are voting my way"  If you are voting the other way you can stay home. 

i just want people to vote.  i don't think those voting for Trump need motivation.  but Buttigieg supporters do need to be motivated to vote for Bernie, and vice versa.

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2 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

No one is going to convince anyone still on his side that he's full of ####, so don't waste your time on them. Stick to the facts. And tell actual swing voters in states that matter how you will make their lives better.

90% of Americans are already happy with their lives, though.  That's an all-time high.  Not sure that will resonate enough for swing voters. 

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3 minutes ago, joffer said:

i just want people to vote.  i don't think those voting for Trump need motivation.  but Buttigieg supporters do need to be motivated to vote for Bernie, and vice versa.

That is a real issue and concern now. 

  With all that has happened with the failed Russia-gate and the failed impeachment process could help Trump get a maximum turnout.

Edited by Da Guru

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The left does the same thing. Probably on a way smaller scale but they’ll probably end up just as bad. 

After the Pelosi handshake thing I searched for times people snubbed Trump. The president of Poland’s wife was one. (I had thought)....but as I researched it I found a snopes article on it and it turns out that the clip was edited. She really did shake his hand after an initial mixup. So I basically went this whole time after this incident thinking the wrong thing. Because of editing. 

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Don’t even get me started on the Covington incident either. 

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4 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

That is a real issue and concern now. 

  With all that has happened with the failed Russia-gate and the failed impeachment process could help Trump get a maximum turnout.

that's certainly one way to look at it

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One of the things about the 16 election and the past couple of years I've wondered is if it would have all gone down the way it did if Jon Stewart didn't retire.  I know the Daily Show is still on and Trevor Noah is capable.....but Stewart had a certain "it" factor that made people listen to him......something that I don't think the current "Stewart style" people have.  

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7 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

One of the things about the 16 election and the past couple of years I've wondered is if it would have all gone down the way it did if Jon Stewart didn't retire.  I know the Daily Show is still on and Trevor Noah is capable.....but Stewart had a certain "it" factor that made people listen to him......something that I don't think the current "Stewart style" people have.  

Stewart had really lost his fastball by then IMO.  Colbert does a good job nightly on a much bigger platform....but how many young voters watch it?

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48 minutes ago, matttyl said:

90% of Americans are already happy with their lives, though.  That's an all-time high.  Not sure that will resonate enough for swing voters. 

See personal life <> what you are implying it does. Doesn't mean they don;t have soul crushing college debt or are barely living check to check or have to ration medical services or aren't concerned with the environment. 

It's exactly the kind of thing we are talking about.   

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political parties and candidates do not tell the truth - they're trying to get elected

 

that's the new political arena 

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42 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

One of the things about the 16 election and the past couple of years I've wondered is if it would have all gone down the way it did if Jon Stewart didn't retire.  I know the Daily Show is still on and Trevor Noah is capable.....but Stewart had a certain "it" factor that made people listen to him......something that I don't think the current "Stewart style" people have.  

I'd be interesting if he ever was motivated to run.  I think he could get a pretty good following going like Sanders has.

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

political parties and candidates do not tell the truth - they're trying to get elected

 

that's the new political arena 

What it all boils down to.  Say what ever will get you in.  Trump has that part on lock down.

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Just now, CentralPA said:

What it all boils down to.  Say what ever will get you in.  Trump has that part on lock down.

they all have it - you don't see that ?

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

they all have it - you don't see that ?

Yes, I do see that but I think Trump excels at it.  Maybe better than any other politician before him.

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12 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

political parties and candidates do not tell the truth - they're trying to get elected

 

that's the new political arena 

That's not new....what's new is the lack of effort in resisting it as "ok".  People have lowered their bars...that's what's new.

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50 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Stewart had really lost his fastball by then IMO.  Colbert does a good job nightly on a much bigger platform....but how many young voters watch it?

They may watch the memes and a few zingers

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1 hour ago, joffer said:

just motivate people to vote, no matter who the candidate is.

I agree with this take. The higher the overall turnout, the greater the chance for Democrat wins.

Ideally, I would like to see tonight's debate have questions about voter suppression, voting security, and the electoral college. 
I do not need to hear about health care tonight. New material, please...Climate change, Trump's nepotism, how to handle judges, what to do about McConnell, etc. 

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There are 2 different things going on - corruption involving authoritarian elements abroad vs just typical political blandishments. Trump does the latter of course but he does in such magnitude and frequency. An example of that was in his SOTU where he claimed 7 million people had moved off welfare. That’s not what happened, the administration cut off welfare for 7 million. But again arguably you can see that sort of thing in many campaigns.

The key IMO is to treat the two issues differently.

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1 hour ago, NREC34 said:

Don’t even get me started on the Covington incident either. 

hmm, i thought that the rockets and wolves both made out pretty well.

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2 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

May I suggest having Lawrence Taylor reprise his role from The Water Boy.  Have the Commercial begin with any Trump statement you want to impugn, and then have Lawrence come on, look into the camera,  and say "That reminds me, Don't do crack!" 

Would never work. One fourth of the party would be furious that it portrayed a stereotype. One fourth would be mad that we weren't doing enough for CTE and that the NFL makes too much money, one 4th would be upset that this was more propaganda supporting the war on drugs. 

20% might find it funny and amusing but without an app to help them vote, it doesn't matter.

5% other.

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