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2006 Cleveland Browns Thread (1 Viewer)

Joe Thomas is as can't miss of an OL as there has been in the last 5 yearshe should go in the top 3
Thomas looks like a legit stud but then so did Robert Gallery. I agree that the Browns have been short on quality OL for ages but the answer is not always spending multiple high picks there. OL bust just like skill guys do. OL is also a position that is often effected as much by coaching and scheme as it is pure talent.
How many high round picks are on the Steelers OL?LT Marvel Smith 2.07 pick by 2000 SteelersLG Alan Faneca 1.26 pick by 1998 SteelersC Jeff Hartings 1.23 pick by 1996 LionsRG Kendall Simmons 1.30 pick by 2002 SteelersRG Max Starks 3.12 pick by 2004 SteelersLooks to me like the Steelers focus on first-day NFL draft level talent...And then the Steelers grab some undrafted guy like FWP and have him run behind all of that.But here in Cleveland we try to have a 1st round RB run behind 6th,7th, and undrafted OL.We're morons.Yah the answer CLEARLY is to get Adrian Petersen to run behind our OL. Yup, that's just how the Steelers do it...
The Browns never pick in the 20's, so you can discount all those first round picks from the Steelers. That's the beauty of being good and drafting in those spots....and very close to where we took Faine after the one season where we were good.That said, 2nd and 3rd round picks is where the Browns should have been going after OLmen since '99, barring a "stud" being there in the top 10.
I'm thru arguing this.I've sat here and watched morons suggest one skill position player after another since 1999.The debate is over. IT DOESN'T WORK UNTIL YOU BUILD AN OL FIRST.Now the Browns need to start getting their heads out of their butts and fix it!
Fine.But if Thomas is the only "stud" AND off the board when the Browns pick at #3 or #4 AND we don't have a good trading partner, I surely hope you don't want to draft an OL in that position, or you are the moron. I'd rather have Gaines Adams or Branch on the DL than a reach OL. It's not like the Browns are an OL away from the Super Bowl. We need to go OL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, or both, in that case.
 
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If the Browns fire Romeo Crennel, they would most likely go after someone who has previously been a head coach in the NFL. Which of the following head coaches would you prefer in this scenario:

Pete Carroll

Mike Martz

Jon Gruden

Steve Mariucci

Dennis Green

Tom Coughlin

 
Joe Thomas is as can't miss of an OL as there has been in the last 5 yearshe should go in the top 3
Thomas looks like a legit stud but then so did Robert Gallery. I agree that the Browns have been short on quality OL for ages but the answer is not always spending multiple high picks there. OL bust just like skill guys do. OL is also a position that is often effected as much by coaching and scheme as it is pure talent.
How many high round picks are on the Steelers OL?LT Marvel Smith 2.07 pick by 2000 SteelersLG Alan Faneca 1.26 pick by 1998 SteelersC Jeff Hartings 1.23 pick by 1996 LionsRG Kendall Simmons 1.30 pick by 2002 SteelersRG Max Starks 3.12 pick by 2004 SteelersLooks to me like the Steelers focus on first-day NFL draft level talent...And then the Steelers grab some undrafted guy like FWP and have him run behind all of that.But here in Cleveland we try to have a 1st round RB run behind 6th,7th, and undrafted OL.We're morons.Yah the answer CLEARLY is to get Adrian Petersen to run behind our OL. Yup, that's just how the Steelers do it...
The Browns never pick in the 20's, so you can discount all those first round picks from the Steelers. That's the beauty of being good and drafting in those spots....and very close to where we took Faine after the one season where we were good.That said, 2nd and 3rd round picks is where the Browns should have been going after OLmen since '99, barring a "stud" being there in the top 10.
I'm thru arguing this.I've sat here and watched morons suggest one skill position player after another since 1999.The debate is over. IT DOESN'T WORK UNTIL YOU BUILD AN OL FIRST.Now the Browns need to start getting their heads out of their butts and fix it!
Fine.But if Thomas is the only "stud" AND off the board when the Browns pick at #3 or #4 AND we don't have a good trading partner, I surely hope you don't want to draft an OL in that position, or you are the moron. I'd rather have Gaines Adams or Branch on the DL than a reach OL. It's not like the Browns are an OL away from the Super Bowl. We need to go OL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, or both, in that case.
Nope. Sorry. That's not an acceptable excuse. An NFL GM should be one of the very best at bargaining to get what they want. They are EXTREMELY well-paid. It is expected that, given a crisis at OL, they WILL find a way to maneuver their picks to get needed OL help. Anything else is a failure. Period.And if the Browns do this in 2007, and it doesn't work out, I don't want to hear one word from ANYONE about how it failed. I had to sit here for 20 years watching this team fail to address the OL. If we focus on the OL for 20 years and it fails, then come complain to me.
 
Browns need a player who can bring fans in - this may be Adrian Peterson.

If they do not get Peterson, Crennel needs to call Charlie Weiss and ask him for his thoughts on Brady Quinn - and possibly target him as well.

The team needs identity - they are lacking that right now. A healthy LeCharles Bentley next year will help and Wimbley has played well.

Possible free agents like Clements and a Lber who can play sideline to sideline would also help.
I've heard reports that Bentley will miss next season as well due to staph infection in surgerically repaired knee and will need major knee surgery again unfortuanately.
 
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Browns need a player who can bring fans in - this may be Adrian Peterson.

If they do not get Peterson, Crennel needs to call Charlie Weiss and ask him for his thoughts on Brady Quinn - and possibly target him as well.

The team needs identity - they are lacking that right now. A healthy LeCharles Bentley next year will help and Wimbley has played well.

Possible free agents like Clements and a Lber who can play sideline to sideline would also help.
I've heard reports that Bentley will miss next season as well due to staph infection in surgerically repaired knee and will need major knee surgery again unfortuanately.
Staph infections can be very dangerous. Greg Lloyd was never the same after his staph infection.
 
I hope you guys beat us this weekend, since it looks like we would be looking at the same type of player with our #1 pick (OL or RB). I don't see any other team in the hunt for a top 5 pick that needs a RB, i.e. A.Peterson (Raiders, Lions, Bucs, Redskins, Cardinals).

 
Joe Thomas is as can't miss of an OL as there has been in the last 5 yearshe should go in the top 3
Thomas looks like a legit stud but then so did Robert Gallery. I agree that the Browns have been short on quality OL for ages but the answer is not always spending multiple high picks there. OL bust just like skill guys do. OL is also a position that is often effected as much by coaching and scheme as it is pure talent.
How many high round picks are on the Steelers OL?LT Marvel Smith 2.07 pick by 2000 SteelersLG Alan Faneca 1.26 pick by 1998 SteelersC Jeff Hartings 1.23 pick by 1996 LionsRG Kendall Simmons 1.30 pick by 2002 SteelersRG Max Starks 3.12 pick by 2004 SteelersLooks to me like the Steelers focus on first-day NFL draft level talent...And then the Steelers grab some undrafted guy like FWP and have him run behind all of that.But here in Cleveland we try to have a 1st round RB run behind 6th,7th, and undrafted OL.We're morons.Yah the answer CLEARLY is to get Adrian Petersen to run behind our OL. Yup, that's just how the Steelers do it...
The Browns never pick in the 20's, so you can discount all those first round picks from the Steelers. That's the beauty of being good and drafting in those spots....and very close to where we took Faine after the one season where we were good.That said, 2nd and 3rd round picks is where the Browns should have been going after OLmen since '99, barring a "stud" being there in the top 10.
I'm thru arguing this.I've sat here and watched morons suggest one skill position player after another since 1999.The debate is over. IT DOESN'T WORK UNTIL YOU BUILD AN OL FIRST.Now the Browns need to start getting their heads out of their butts and fix it!
Fine.But if Thomas is the only "stud" AND off the board when the Browns pick at #3 or #4 AND we don't have a good trading partner, I surely hope you don't want to draft an OL in that position, or you are the moron. I'd rather have Gaines Adams or Branch on the DL than a reach OL. It's not like the Browns are an OL away from the Super Bowl. We need to go OL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, or both, in that case.
Nope. Sorry. That's not an acceptable excuse. An NFL GM should be one of the very best at bargaining to get what they want. They are EXTREMELY well-paid. It is expected that, given a crisis at OL, they WILL find a way to maneuver their picks to get needed OL help. Anything else is a failure. Period.And if the Browns do this in 2007, and it doesn't work out, I don't want to hear one word from ANYONE about how it failed. I had to sit here for 20 years watching this team fail to address the OL. If we focus on the OL for 20 years and it fails, then come complain to me.
Whatever BGP. My scenario is a scenario that can happen. And if it does, I don't want an OL taken 15-20 picks early, I want 2nd/3rd round OL and a top 5 player. Sucks that you apparently do don't agree with common sense.
 
Joe Thomas is as can't miss of an OL as there has been in the last 5 yearshe should go in the top 3
Thomas looks like a legit stud but then so did Robert Gallery. I agree that the Browns have been short on quality OL for ages but the answer is not always spending multiple high picks there. OL bust just like skill guys do. OL is also a position that is often effected as much by coaching and scheme as it is pure talent.
How many high round picks are on the Steelers OL?LT Marvel Smith 2.07 pick by 2000 SteelersLG Alan Faneca 1.26 pick by 1998 SteelersC Jeff Hartings 1.23 pick by 1996 LionsRG Kendall Simmons 1.30 pick by 2002 SteelersRG Max Starks 3.12 pick by 2004 SteelersLooks to me like the Steelers focus on first-day NFL draft level talent...And then the Steelers grab some undrafted guy like FWP and have him run behind all of that.But here in Cleveland we try to have a 1st round RB run behind 6th,7th, and undrafted OL.We're morons.Yah the answer CLEARLY is to get Adrian Petersen to run behind our OL. Yup, that's just how the Steelers do it...
The answer is to get someone that will produce in the Browns system, since 1999 the Browns have missed on nearly every first round pick. Center Jeff Faine was a first rounder. A bust according to you, until he went to NO...now he leads one of the best offenses in football. Scheme and coaching matter more to OL than any other position. A good talent evaluator finds the players to fit their scheme. Savage got a hit with Wimbley, the Browns need more like that, regardless of position. Plenty of good OL come later in the draft and plenty of early round OL are busts.
 
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Seems like the biggest problem in Cleveland is ownership. How many times is Lerner going to axe a coach or GM before he realizes he is the problem.

POSTED 4:43 p.m. EST, December 28, 2006SAVAGE GETTING CANNED NEXT WEEK?Last year at this time, former Browns president John Collins was in the process of pushing G.M. Phil Savage out the door. Coach Romeo Crennel and owner Randy Lerner intervened, and Savage stayed.Not long thereafter, Collins was out.This time around, there are rumors that Savage could get the shoe next week from Lerner.Peter King reports on HBO's Inside the NFL that Savage and Lerner will meet after the regular season ends to discuss the future of Crennel. King says he has a gut feeling that Crennel will be let go.Our sources tell us that both Crennel and Savage are vulnerable.And that would make sense. It was Savage, after all, who hired Crennel. Why should the G.M. be any less accountable than the head coach? We realize that, traditionally, the G.M. gets at least one mulligan (or, in the case of Matt Millen, two). But both guys should be in the same boat, in our not-so-humble opinion. Another possibility is that Savage will transition into a scouting-only role, and that a G.M. will be hired to handle the bigger picture. There were reports along these lines earlier in the year, and such an outcome has worked well in New York, where former G.M. Terry Bradway took a step down in connection with the promotion of Mike Tannenbaum.
 
Seems like the biggest problem in Cleveland is ownership. How many times is Lerner going to axe a coach or GM before he realizes he is the problem.
Randy Lerner may be the problem. Unfortunately, that's the one problem that cannot be fixed. So if that's the case, there's no hope of success.I'm not really sure what axeing a coach or GM has to do with it. If you are suggesting that Lerner is unable to be patient, he was patient with Butch Davis and gave him 4 years. Butch never had a team this talented and never underperformed this badly, however.Its extremely hard to give a coach a mulligan in his first TWO years. You have to see progress. This team is going backwards.
 
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Bobcat10 said:
Joe Thomas is as can't miss of an OL as there has been in the last 5 yearshe should go in the top 3
Thomas looks like a legit stud but then so did Robert Gallery. I agree that the Browns have been short on quality OL for ages but the answer is not always spending multiple high picks there. OL bust just like skill guys do. OL is also a position that is often effected as much by coaching and scheme as it is pure talent.
How many high round picks are on the Steelers OL?LT Marvel Smith 2.07 pick by 2000 SteelersLG Alan Faneca 1.26 pick by 1998 SteelersC Jeff Hartings 1.23 pick by 1996 LionsRG Kendall Simmons 1.30 pick by 2002 SteelersRG Max Starks 3.12 pick by 2004 SteelersLooks to me like the Steelers focus on first-day NFL draft level talent...And then the Steelers grab some undrafted guy like FWP and have him run behind all of that.But here in Cleveland we try to have a 1st round RB run behind 6th,7th, and undrafted OL.We're morons.Yah the answer CLEARLY is to get Adrian Petersen to run behind our OL. Yup, that's just how the Steelers do it...
The Browns never pick in the 20's, so you can discount all those first round picks from the Steelers. That's the beauty of being good and drafting in those spots....and very close to where we took Faine after the one season where we were good.That said, 2nd and 3rd round picks is where the Browns should have been going after OLmen since '99, barring a "stud" being there in the top 10.
I'm thru arguing this.I've sat here and watched morons suggest one skill position player after another since 1999.The debate is over. IT DOESN'T WORK UNTIL YOU BUILD AN OL FIRST.Now the Browns need to start getting their heads out of their butts and fix it!
Fine.But if Thomas is the only "stud" AND off the board when the Browns pick at #3 or #4 AND we don't have a good trading partner, I surely hope you don't want to draft an OL in that position, or you are the moron. I'd rather have Gaines Adams or Branch on the DL than a reach OL. It's not like the Browns are an OL away from the Super Bowl. We need to go OL in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, or both, in that case.
Nope. Sorry. That's not an acceptable excuse. An NFL GM should be one of the very best at bargaining to get what they want. They are EXTREMELY well-paid. It is expected that, given a crisis at OL, they WILL find a way to maneuver their picks to get needed OL help. Anything else is a failure. Period.And if the Browns do this in 2007, and it doesn't work out, I don't want to hear one word from ANYONE about how it failed. I had to sit here for 20 years watching this team fail to address the OL. If we focus on the OL for 20 years and it fails, then come complain to me.
Whatever BGP. My scenario is a scenario that can happen. And if it does, I don't want an OL taken 15-20 picks early, I want 2nd/3rd round OL and a top 5 player. Sucks that you apparently do don't agree with common sense.
I have never said we should take an OL 15-20 picks early. Never. I agree with you.
 
The rumor on WKNR 850 AM out of Cleveland for the past few months has been that Phil Savage has decided he would prefer to be more of a scout instead of a GM. So if he leaves, it may be more of a resignation for personal reasons rather than getting fired. He just wants a different lifestyle.

 
BGP, I know you're upset at the lack of focus on drafting OL in Cleveland. I am too, and have been for years. But to suggest that we should absolutely pick an OL in the 1st round, no matter what, even if Joe Thomas is gone, is just not a sound drafting strategy.

You mention the Steelers and how a lot of their picks are from the first round. Well, let's take a look at the OLs for the top 6 offenses in the NFL (as measured by PPG), and see which OLmen are 1st round picks:

1. San Diego - None!

2. Chicago - LT Tait, LG Brown

3. Indianapolis - LT Glenn

4. Dallas - RT Colombo

5. New Orleans - LT Brown, C Faine

6. Philadelphia - LT Thomas, RG Andrews

The best offenses in the NFL typically have a 1st rounder at LT, and then maybe another G or T from the 1st. The best offense in the league has NO 1st rounders!

I absolutely, positively agree that we should have been drafting OL like crazy and still need to do so. I think we should take Thomas and do what it takes to make that pick happen. But to suggest that it's the end of the world if we don't pick an OLmen in the first is just not correct.

 
The rumor on WKNR 850 AM out of Cleveland for the past few months has been that Phil Savage has decided he would prefer to be more of a scout instead of a GM. So if he leaves, it may be more of a resignation for personal reasons rather than getting fired. He just wants a different lifestyle.
That's rumor has been going around for a long time, and I believe Phil when he says in his press conference that it's nonsense. I just don't see it. Why would he leave one of the best organizations in football, with one of the best scouting jobs, to become a GM for a failing organization when deep down all he really wants to do is keep scouting?The media just makes #### up all the time around here.
 
Seems like the biggest problem in Cleveland is ownership. How many times is Lerner going to axe a coach or GM before he realizes he is the problem.
Randy Lerner may be the problem. Unfortunately, that's the one problem that cannot be fixed. So if that's the case, there's no hope of success.I'm not really sure what axeing a coach or GM has to do with it. If you are suggesting that Lerner is unable to be patient, he was patient with Butch Davis and gave him 4 years. Butch never had a team this talented and never underperformed this badly, however.

Its extremely hard to give a coach a mulligan in his first TWO years. You have to see progress. This team is going backwards.
Chuck Noll was 6-22 after 2 seasons. 12-30 after three.Jimmy Johnson was 8-24 after 2 seasons.

Tom Landry was 4-20 after 2 seasons.9-28 after three.

Bill Parcells was 12-19-1 after 2 seasons.

The Great Belichick was 16-16 after his first two years in NE, 13-19 after his first two years in Cleveland.

Mike Ditka was 11-14 his first two years.

Bill Walsh was 8-24 after two years.

 
Seems like the biggest problem in Cleveland is ownership. How many times is Lerner going to axe a coach or GM before he realizes he is the problem.
Randy Lerner may be the problem. Unfortunately, that's the one problem that cannot be fixed. So if that's the case, there's no hope of success.I'm not really sure what axeing a coach or GM has to do with it. If you are suggesting that Lerner is unable to be patient, he was patient with Butch Davis and gave him 4 years. Butch never had a team this talented and never underperformed this badly, however.

Its extremely hard to give a coach a mulligan in his first TWO years. You have to see progress. This team is going backwards.
Chuck Noll was 6-22 after 2 seasons. 12-30 after three.Jimmy Johnson was 8-24 after 2 seasons.

Tom Landry was 4-20 after 2 seasons.9-28 after three.

Bill Parcells was 12-19-1 after 2 seasons.

The Great Belichick was 16-16 after his first two years in NE, 13-19 after his first two years in Cleveland.

Mike Ditka was 11-14 his first two years.

Bill Walsh was 8-24 after two years.
Chuck Noll showed improvement. 2-11-1 before he got there, they went 1-13 but then 5-9 in year 2.Jimmy Johnson showed improvement. 3-13 before he got there, they went 1-15 but then 7-9 in year 2.

Tom Landry was the only coach the Cowboys ever had. But they did struggle for 5 years or so.

Bill Parcells in year 2 made the playoffs and won a playoff game...

Bill Belichick WON THE SUPER BOWL in year 2...

C'mon. I don't need to continue. I said you have to see PROGRESS. Landry would be the only example you could use and you are making the exception the rule...

 
The rumor on WKNR 850 AM out of Cleveland for the past few months has been that Phil Savage has decided he would prefer to be more of a scout instead of a GM. So if he leaves, it may be more of a resignation for personal reasons rather than getting fired. He just wants a different lifestyle.
That's rumor has been going around for a long time, and I believe Phil when he says in his press conference that it's nonsense. I just don't see it. Why would he leave one of the best organizations in football, with one of the best scouting jobs, to become a GM for a failing organization when deep down all he really wants to do is keep scouting?The media just makes #### up all the time around here.
I agree. And it can only be a good thing that Roger Brown is gone.Also, GMs are responsible for a heck of alot of things...but don't most GMs delegate all the tedious/workman like things to other people and concentrate mostly on scouting/player aquisitions/draft/free agency/salary cap (with the cap guru)/football things ETC ETC?
 
Seems like the biggest problem in Cleveland is ownership. How many times is Lerner going to axe a coach or GM before he realizes he is the problem.
Randy Lerner may be the problem. Unfortunately, that's the one problem that cannot be fixed. So if that's the case, there's no hope of success.I'm not really sure what axeing a coach or GM has to do with it. If you are suggesting that Lerner is unable to be patient, he was patient with Butch Davis and gave him 4 years. Butch never had a team this talented and never underperformed this badly, however.

Its extremely hard to give a coach a mulligan in his first TWO years. You have to see progress. This team is going backwards.
Chuck Noll was 6-22 after 2 seasons. 12-30 after three.Jimmy Johnson was 8-24 after 2 seasons.

Tom Landry was 4-20 after 2 seasons.9-28 after three.

Bill Parcells was 12-19-1 after 2 seasons.

The Great Belichick was 16-16 after his first two years in NE, 13-19 after his first two years in Cleveland.

Mike Ditka was 11-14 his first two years.

Bill Walsh was 8-24 after two years.
Chuck Noll showed improvement. 2-11-1 before he got there, they went 1-13 but then 5-9 in year 2.Jimmy Johnson showed improvement. 3-13 before he got there, they went 1-15 but then 7-9 in year 2.

Tom Landry was the only coach the Cowboys ever had. But they did struggle for 5 years or so.

Bill Parcells in year 2 made the playoffs and won a playoff game...

Bill Belichick WON THE SUPER BOWL in year 2...

C'mon. I don't need to continue. I said you have to see PROGRESS. Landry would be the only example you could use and you are making the exception the rule...
It would be tough for ANY coach to make progress without a legit NFL QB on the roster. I don't believe Crennel is the next Lombardi but it's hard to tell what he can do without the benefit of a QB. Savage needs to address that in the offseason if he's still around.
 
QB is not the answer

put Joe Montana behind our O-Line and he would get creamed

we need to put together some large men who can pass block and run block before we go out and draft a QB highly

Look at how good Garcia is doing in Philly playing behind a good offensive line, compare that to his years in cleveland and detroit

look at how good warner did in st.louis behind a good O-line, now look how he is doing in arizona

even damon huard looked like a pro bowler passing behind that KC O-line. the same Huard looked awful in Miami

 
QB is not the answerput Joe Montana behind our O-Line and he would get creamedwe need to put together some large men who can pass block and run block before we go out and draft a QB highlyLook at how good Garcia is doing in Philly playing behind a good offensive line, compare that to his years in cleveland and detroitlook at how good warner did in st.louis behind a good O-line, now look how he is doing in arizonaeven damon huard looked like a pro bowler passing behind that KC O-line. the same Huard looked awful in Miami
:goodposting:
 
The problem with the O-line wish is that it's the same wish everyone else has. Finding Oline help in the draft is not alwasy easy (although a blind person could have seen that Marcus McNeil, Jammal Brown, and Shawn Andrews all should have gone a good bit higher then they did).

I actually thought the Texans made good strides by getting Winston and Spencer with back to back picks. The Jets spending two firsts on line has made all the difference this season.

 
QB is not the answerput Joe Montana behind our O-Line and he would get creamedwe need to put together some large men who can pass block and run block before we go out and draft a QB highlyLook at how good Garcia is doing in Philly playing behind a good offensive line, compare that to his years in cleveland and detroitlook at how good warner did in st.louis behind a good O-line, now look how he is doing in arizonaeven damon huard looked like a pro bowler passing behind that KC O-line. the same Huard looked awful in Miami
Whether you think the Browns biggest priority is: OL, QB, RB, etc., clearly they lack the personnel at most positions to compete in the division right now. I think that lies more with the GM than the coach, but both need more than two years to right the ship.
 

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