2007 NBA DRAFT - ODEN and PORTLAND CRIPPLED (1 Viewer)

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example:

Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?

That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

I think that once you get past the Elite players in the draft, then you might draft for need. But if you look at previous drafts as an example, centers are always a sought after comodity and drafted ahead of more talented players due to the scarcity of the position.

Agreed completely. Thats all I was saying was the Portland does need a SF more than a center. So it isn't a "perfect fit" for the best player this year to be a center. Please tell me that you guys understand what I'm saying now.

I totally disagree...the Blazers have two PFs in Randolph and Aldridge trying to play center....they don't have a inside dominator on defense.

I agree with Sammy, they need a Center. Assani is wrong again.

 

[trader jake]

-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.Thats really it.

This is why the #1 and #2 picks are very easy to make this year. Everything else you've posted is debate for the sake of debate type stuff.

 

[Sammy3469]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

assume for a minute that Seattle got the #1 pick. Who do you think they should take and why?

Aaron,please please stop going in circles. You've completely ignored my points throughout this argument. Here they are:

-Looking at Portland's current roster, their biggest need would be a SF, maybe you could argue PG. But they are strong at PF and C(relatively in comparison to the rest of their team).

-Seattle has a ton of weakness. If they resign Lewis, then SG and SF are their strengths. Their center position is serverely lacking.

-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.

Thats really it.

But not relative to the rest of the league....a team that adds Durant is still going to get abused by Stoudadmire/Duncan/Boozer/Yao. A team with Oden won't. Thus a team with Oden would be better. It's really that simple.

 

[_4_]

even on Jordan's teams they had above average inside defenders in Cartwright/Ho Grant and then Rodman. No one currently on the Blazers is even average.

Don't forget Bill Wennington and Will Perdue.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.

which player went farther in the NCAA tournament?which player played most of the year with one hand?

Aaron, you're killing me man. You're just not being honest in this debate.Do you really think that the majority of FBGs here feel the way they do because of what they've personally watched and scouted and not because of what people have told them? Do you really think that if every ESPN expert was saying that Durant was the concensus #1 pick that everyone in this thread would still feel that Oden should be #1?

look at the list of recent NBA champions and the Centers that played for them. Other than Jordan's Bulls, a dominant Center seems to always win out. You don't see Dirk, Garnett, Malone, etc. collecting championship rings for a reason.Heat: ShaqSpurs: DuncanPistons: WallaceLakers: ShaqRockets: Olajuwonbtw, having a "better freshman year" doesn't mean everything when trying to project how good/great a player will be in the pros.

The best player on the Heat was Wade. Duncan plays PF for the Spurs. Wallace was not a dominant center. Shaq and Kobe were 1A and 1B. I'll give you Olajuwon. Aaron, your logic skills are baffling me in this thread. Couldn't I just as easily go:Heat: WadeSpurs: Ginboli/ParkerPistons: BillupsLakers: KobeHouston: DrexlerBut what would that prove?

 

[Assani Fisher]

You think that Oden is great because you've heard a few ESPN talking heads say so.

Condescending much? I remember reading somewhere (it might have been Chad Ford) that he polled a bunch of NBA GM's. The vast majority of them said they would take Oden over Durant. No names of the GM's are involved, and it's not really a situation where GM's would be trying to blow smoke up someone's ###, so it's fairly reliable.BTW, I just left a phone message with the Warriors front office asking them to offer up Biedrins for Oden.

Its not condescending at all, at least not meant to be.Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.Fact: Very few FBGs are adapt basketball scouts.Conclusion: The vast majority of FBGs believe that Oden will be better than Durant because of what someone else has told them.

Assani, footballguys aside, you won't even get NBA GMs agree with you, so you sound pretty ridiculous right now.I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

For the last time,I'm not saying that they shouldn't take Oden. I'm not saying that a dominant center isn't valuable. I'm just saying that hes not a perfect fit because they'll have to make some trades to fit him in.

 

[JMon348]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example: Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

Seattle can't play Wilcox, Collison, and Oden on the floor together either so I guess they should take Durant?

Wilcox and Collison are not very good players. You send them to the bench if you can draft someone better.Randolph and Aldridge are very good players. You'd rather address other areas of need before drafting someone at their position.

Call me crazy, id like to have Wilcox on my team rather than Zach Randolph. Zach might be the worst PF defender in the NBA. I also think LA's natural fit is PF not C, making Oden a great fit.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

assume for a minute that Seattle got the #1 pick. Who do you think they should take and why?

Aaron,please please stop going in circles. You've completely ignored my points throughout this argument. Here they are:-Looking at Portland's current roster, their biggest need would be a SF, maybe you could argue PG. But they are strong at PF and C(relatively in comparison to the rest of their team).-Seattle has a ton of weakness. If they resign Lewis, then SG and SF are their strengths. Their center position is serverely lacking.-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.Thats really it.

Portland is not strong at Center. That's where (nearly) everybody disagrees with you. Neither Randolph or Aldridge is a defensive presence in the paint, which is what Oden would be for them.Seattle could still go with Allen, Lewis, and Durant on the floor together and hope to get by with Collison, Wilcox, Swift, Sene, etc. at Center. Portland has a lot of weaknesses too. If Seattle doesn't re-sign Lewis, the frontcourts don't look that different to me (Randolph, Aldridge, Outlaw vs Wilcox, Collison, Swift).Agreed with your last point.

 

[Assani Fisher]

But if they grade out equally then they should take Durant because they have a bigger need there.

disagree. if they grade out equally, you take the Center over a player from any other position, regardless of need. Durant's a great consolation prize at #2, but Oden is still the crown jewel of this draft class. I'm guessing at least 80% or more of NBA GMs would take Oden over Durant.

I mean that after you consider the center vs SF aspect and that "centers are more important to win a title", they still grade out equally...then you draft for need.

Durant is awesome and I don't necessarily think it would be a terrible decision to take him #1 overall...but, I think taking Oden will make Portland a better team.

I'm not asking you what you think. You're completely missing my point. I want you to imagine for a second that you take a closer look at Oden/Durant and you change your mind and decide that they're exactly equal in your eyes. Then who do you take for Portland? I think you clearly take Durant because hes the better fit with their current team. Thats all I was ever saying. I was simply disagreeing that "Oden is a perfect fit there." Thats it! Please don't go off on another tangent or start putting more words in my mouth...thats all I've ever been saying.

He's a great fit b/c they don't have a legit center, and that's the hardest thing to find. Sure, they could probably use an upgrade at the 3 spot a little more, but it makes more sense to lock up an elite Center now and hope to find a good SF later on than it does to fill the (slightly) bigger need now and hope to find a great C later on.

Thank you so very much. We are now in 100% complete agreement. I have no idea why it took us 100+ posts to get here though.

 

[Domination]

With all the picks that the Blazers have (4 2nd rd picks) they can draft a center in Oden, and then trade up using the picks that they have to get a stud SF. If they draft Durrant they wouldn't be able to use the picks to trade up to get a stud Center.

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Aaron, your logic skills are baffling me in this thread.

sorry that you can't understand what everyone else seems to have little difficulty with.

 

[_4_]

With all the picks that the Blazers have (4 2nd rd picks) they can draft a center in Oden, and then trade up using the picks that they have to get a stud SF. If they draft Durrant they wouldn't be able to use the picks to trade up to get a stud Center.

2nd round picks in the NBA are not worth much. If you think you can use them - all 4 of them - to get a "stud" SF you are delusional.

 

[Assani Fisher]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example:

Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?

That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

I think that once you get past the Elite players in the draft, then you might draft for need. But if you look at previous drafts as an example, centers are always a sought after comodity and drafted ahead of more talented players due to the scarcity of the position.

Agreed completely. Thats all I was saying was the Portland does need a SF more than a center. So it isn't a "perfect fit" for the best player this year to be a center. Please tell me that you guys understand what I'm saying now.

I totally disagree...the Blazers have two PFs in Randolph and Aldridge trying to play center....they don't have a inside dominator on defense.

Aldrige at center for the next 10-15 years. Udoka at SF for the next 10-15 years.You're honestly telling me that you think the former is the bigger weakness? Seriously man? Please think this over before you answer.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

For the last time,I'm not saying that they shouldn't take Oden. I'm not saying that a dominant center isn't valuable. I'm just saying that hes not a perfect fit because they'll have to make some trades to fit him in.

why do they "have" to trade anybody? since when does an NBA team = just the starting lineup?why don't you think an NBA team can make good use of a rotation with Randolph, Aldridge, and Oden?

Starting Randolph and Oden with Aldridge backing up both looks like a pretty sweet setup to me. Plenty of minutes to go around too.

 

[Assani Fisher]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example:

Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?

That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

I think that once you get past the Elite players in the draft, then you might draft for need. But if you look at previous drafts as an example, centers are always a sought after comodity and drafted ahead of more talented players due to the scarcity of the position.

Agreed completely. Thats all I was saying was the Portland does need a SF more than a center. So it isn't a "perfect fit" for the best player this year to be a center. Please tell me that you guys understand what I'm saying now.

I totally disagree...the Blazers have two PFs in Randolph and Aldridge trying to play center....they don't have a inside dominator on defense.

I agree with Sammy, they need a Center. Assani is wrong again.

this place really needs to stick to football.

 

[Dought Man]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

OK, hypothetical question: if you were starting a franchise.. would you take Duncan in his prime.. or Kevin Garnett? You have no others players on your team.

 

[Assani Fisher]

-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.Thats really it.

This is why the #1 and #2 picks are very easy to make this year. Everything else you've posted is debate for the sake of debate type stuff.

You guys are the ones debating for the sake of debating though!Several people posted things along the lines of "Oh this is perfect for Portland. Oden is a perfect fit there. They will defintiely take him now."I then pointed out that it wasn't a perfect fit and that actually if the top 2 players grade out equally they might not take Oden because Durant is the one who is a perfect fit.Then you guys went off on a bunch of tangents about me not understanding the value of a center, Oden being more valuable than Durant, and so on....when I never said anything disagreeing with you there. Time and time again I tried to redirect the conversation back to my original statements but you guys kept going on and on!

 

[seahawk 17]

I can watch the Blazers again.... Jail-Blazers no more.

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

assume for a minute that Seattle got the #1 pick. Who do you think they should take and why?

Aaron,please please stop going in circles. You've completely ignored my points throughout this argument. Here they are:

-Looking at Portland's current roster, their biggest need would be a SF, maybe you could argue PG. But they are strong at PF and C(relatively in comparison to the rest of their team).

-Seattle has a ton of weakness. If they resign Lewis, then SG and SF are their strengths. Their center position is serverely lacking.

-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.

Thats really it.

But not relative to the rest of the league....a team that adds Durant is still going to get abused by Stoudadmire/Duncan/Boozer/Yao. A team with Oden won't. Thus a team with Oden would be better. It's really that simple.

That is because you believe that Oden is better than Durant and would help a team more than Durant would. Thats fine- I'm not disagreeing with you.

What I'm saying is that if you didn't think that and you thought they were equal, then Durant would be the pick.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Spur of the moment mock.



1) Portland--> Greg Oden

2) Seattle--> Kevin Durant

3) Atlanta--> Mike Conley Jr.

4) Memphis--> Al Horford

5) Boston--> Yi Jianlan

6) Bucks--> Brendan Wright

7) Minnesota--> Corey Brewer

8) Bobcats--> Roy Hibbert

9) Bulls--> Joakim Noah

10) Kings--> Spencer Hawes

11) Hawks--> Tiago Splitter

12) 76ers--> Acie Law

13) Hornets--> Al Thornton

14) Clippers--> Julian Wright

15) Pistons--> Jason Smith

16) Wizards--> Jeff Green

Thoughts?

 

[Assani Fisher]

With all the picks that the Blazers have (4 2nd rd picks) they can draft a center in Oden, and then trade up using the picks that they have to get a stud SF. If they draft Durrant they wouldn't be able to use the picks to trade up to get a stud Center.

This isn't the NFL. Second round picks have very very little value at all.

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

I agree with everyone that says if they grade out evenly, the fact that one is a Center is the trump card.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Imagine Peyton Manning is in the draft, as is LT2. You take Peyton Manning first everytime, unless you have a pro bowler at QB already.

Same thing with Portland. You don't pass on franchise, potential all time great centers because you have Zach Randolph.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

For the last time,I'm not saying that they shouldn't take Oden. I'm not saying that a dominant center isn't valuable. I'm just saying that hes not a perfect fit because they'll have to make some trades to fit him in.

why do they "have" to trade anybody? since when does an NBA team = just the starting lineup?why don't you think an NBA team can make good use of a rotation with Randolph, Aldridge, and Oden?

Starting Randolph and Oden with Aldridge backing up both looks like a pretty sweet setup to me. Plenty of minutes to go around too.

$1000 bet, right now:If the Blazers draft Oden, before the season starts I will be able to find at least 5 reputable sports writers that mention the Blazers having thoughts of trading Randolph.

 

[tommyGunZ]

-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.Thats really it.

This is why the #1 and #2 picks are very easy to make this year. Everything else you've posted is debate for the sake of debate type stuff.

You guys are the ones debating for the sake of debating though!Several people posted things along the lines of "Oh this is perfect for Portland. Oden is a perfect fit there. They will defintiely take him now."I then pointed out that it wasn't a perfect fit and that actually if the top 2 players grade out equally they might not take Oden because Durant is the one who is a perfect fit.Then you guys went off on a bunch of tangents about me not understanding the value of a center, Oden being more valuable than Durant, and so on....when I never said anything disagreeing with you there. Time and time again I tried to redirect the conversation back to my original statements but you guys kept going on and on!

Assani, you're WAY, WAY overrating Randolph's value. He putting up big numbers early last year b/c Aldridge came along slowly and Roy was hurt. He was getting 20-25 shots per night. Once Roy got healthy and Aldridge woke up, Randolph was at best the 3rd best player on that team.You don't pass on one of the best center prospects of all time b/c of Zack freakin Randolph.

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

For the last time,I'm not saying that they shouldn't take Oden. I'm not saying that a dominant center isn't valuable. I'm just saying that hes not a perfect fit because they'll have to make some trades to fit him in.

why do they "have" to trade anybody? since when does an NBA team = just the starting lineup?why don't you think an NBA team can make good use of a rotation with Randolph, Aldridge, and Oden?

Starting Randolph and Oden with Aldridge backing up both looks like a pretty sweet setup to me. Plenty of minutes to go around too.

$1000 bet, right now:If the Blazers draft Oden, before the season starts I will be able to find at least 5 reputable sports writers that mention the Blazers having thoughts of trading Randolph.

Im sure that's correct but entertaining trade offers is a far cry from the mandatory trade that you were referencing earlier.

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

OK, hypothetical question: if you were starting a franchise.. would you take Duncan in his prime.. or Kevin Garnett? You have no others players on your team.

Duncan. I love both of them though and both would be in my top 10 if I were starting a team(only including players in my lifetime). In fact heres my list of players I would take if I were starting a team:Tier #1

1. MJ

2. Duncan

3. Shaq

Tier #2

4. Magic

5. Bird

6. Kobe

7. KG

8. Hakeem

Tier #3

9. Stockton

10. Sabonis

11. Robinson

12. Barkley

13. Robinson

14. Pippen

15. Malone

16. Hill

17. Payton

18. Nash

Tier #4

19. Kidd

20. Dirk

21. Dixon

22. Ewing

23. Isaiah

24. Rodman

25. McGrady

26. McHale

27. Iverson

28. Drexler

29. Webber

30. Wilkins

I am assuming that you can take each player from the time he was in his young 20s and that his injuries will be completely random(in other words, just because a player got injured in real life doesn't mean he will in this scenario)

 

[ianfitzy]

Spur of the moment mock.



1) Portland--> Greg Oden

2) Seattle--> Kevin Durant

3) Atlanta--> Mike Conley Jr.

4) Memphis--> Al Horford

5) Boston--> Yi Jianlan

6) Bucks--> Brendan Wright

7) Minnesota--> Corey Brewer

8) Bobcats--> Roy Hibbert

9) Bulls--> Joakim Noah

10) Kings--> Spencer Hawes

11) Hawks--> Tiago Splitter

12) 76ers--> Acie Law

13) Hornets--> Al Thornton

14) Clippers--> Julian Wright

15) Pistons--> Jason Smith

16) Wizards--> Jeff Green

Thoughts?

Yi Jianlan better turn out to be the next Yao otherwise if the Celts draft him I will be extremely pissed. I say theres a better chance he turns into the next Wang Zhi Zhi or whoever he is, than Yao or apparently Dirk, since they compare him to him. The order for who I want to the Celts to draft goes:

Conley, Brewer, Wright, Horford

 

[tommyGunZ]

KG over Hakeem?????

 

[Assani Fisher]

Spur of the moment mock.



1) Portland--> Greg Oden

2) Seattle--> Kevin Durant

3) Atlanta--> Mike Conley Jr.

4) Memphis--> Al Horford

5) Boston--> Yi Jianlan

6) Bucks--> Brendan Wright

7) Minnesota--> Corey Brewer

8) Bobcats--> Roy Hibbert

9) Bulls--> Joakim Noah

10) Kings--> Spencer Hawes

11) Hawks--> Tiago Splitter

12) 76ers--> Acie Law

13) Hornets--> Al Thornton

14) Clippers--> Julian Wright

15) Pistons--> Jason Smith

16) Wizards--> Jeff Green

Thoughts?

You really have Green dropping, huh? Conley really was a late riser, but I guess it makes sense with Atlanta. Good mock overall.

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

I agree with everyone that says if they grade out evenly, the fact that one is a Center is the trump card.

I've said this like 10 times now man....When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally after you have already taken that into consideration.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Imagine Peyton Manning is in the draft, as is LT2. You take Peyton Manning first everytime, unless you have a pro bowler at QB already.Same thing with Portland. You don't pass on franchise, potential all time great centers because you have Zach Randolph.

agreed completely. But now imagine that theres a QB and a RB that you have ranked equally when already taking that into consideration. Off the top of my head lets say LT2 and McNabb maybe. Thats what I'm saying- if they grade out equally after taking position scarcity/importance into consideration.

 

[Dought Man]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

OK, hypothetical question: if you were starting a franchise.. would you take Duncan in his prime.. or Kevin Garnett? You have no others players on your team.

Duncan. I love both of them though and both would be in my top 10 if I were starting a team(only including players in my lifetime). In fact heres my list of players I would take if I were starting a team:

So, if Oden's upside is a Duncan-like impact and Durants upside is Garnett (as many have proclaimed).....dont you take Oden, regardless if you have a Zach Randolph or Aldridge on your squad??Call me crazy, but I see Durant being Carmelo Anthony with better range and less back to basket ability. A great scorer, decent rebounder in the league... but not someone who is going to guarantee you possible runs at a championship.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

$1000 bet, right now:If the Blazers draft Oden, before the season starts I will be able to find at least 5 reputable sports writers that mention the Blazers having thoughts of trading Randolph.

that's a bad bet b/c "reputable" is far too subjective.they may trade him or shop him around. but, my point is they don't have to move him. if taking Odom and trading Randolph makes their team better than drafting Durant, what's the problem?if you were running the Blazers, who would you take?

 

[Britney Spears]

Bill Simmons thinks Seattle has the karma for it.Go Brit!

THANK YOU RED I LOVE YOU!

 

[Assani Fisher]

-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.Thats really it.

This is why the #1 and #2 picks are very easy to make this year. Everything else you've posted is debate for the sake of debate type stuff.

You guys are the ones debating for the sake of debating though!Several people posted things along the lines of "Oh this is perfect for Portland. Oden is a perfect fit there. They will defintiely take him now."I then pointed out that it wasn't a perfect fit and that actually if the top 2 players grade out equally they might not take Oden because Durant is the one who is a perfect fit.Then you guys went off on a bunch of tangents about me not understanding the value of a center, Oden being more valuable than Durant, and so on....when I never said anything disagreeing with you there. Time and time again I tried to redirect the conversation back to my original statements but you guys kept going on and on!

Assani, you're WAY, WAY overrating Randolph's value. He putting up big numbers early last year b/c Aldridge came along slowly and Roy was hurt. He was getting 20-25 shots per night. Once Roy got healthy and Aldridge woke up, Randolph was at best the 3rd best player on that team.You don't pass on one of the best center prospects of all time b/c of Zack freakin Randolph.

His Roland Rating was excellent. You say that he was only scoring a lot because he took a lot of shots, but he led the team in FG%. I agree with your last statement. I'm saying that you do pass on him because of Randolph if Oden and Durant grade out completely equally. In other words, suppose that the Blazers made a list of every player on how they would take them if they were starting a team from scratch and had zero players yet. Then suppose that they rank Durant and Oden as completely even on this list. Then they should take Durant in real life.

 

[TLEF316]

my guess is that the Blazers take Oden and trade Randolph. Randolph is a major trouble maker, but some team desperate for low post scoring would offer a decent package.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

For the last time,I'm not saying that they shouldn't take Oden. I'm not saying that a dominant center isn't valuable. I'm just saying that hes not a perfect fit because they'll have to make some trades to fit him in.

why do they "have" to trade anybody? since when does an NBA team = just the starting lineup?why don't you think an NBA team can make good use of a rotation with Randolph, Aldridge, and Oden?

Starting Randolph and Oden with Aldridge backing up both looks like a pretty sweet setup to me. Plenty of minutes to go around too.

$1000 bet, right now:If the Blazers draft Oden, before the season starts I will be able to find at least 5 reputable sports writers that mention the Blazers having thoughts of trading Randolph.

Im sure that's correct but entertaining trade offers is a far cry from the mandatory trade that you were referencing earlier.

Agreed.But if Oden was a "perfect fit" then why would a perfect fit cause a team to suddenly start looking to trade one of it's players? Should a "perfect fit" come in and compliment everyone and not require any trades?

 

[Assani Fisher]

KG over Hakeem?????

That was a tough one for me. But I think that Hakeem gets a lot of credit for winning two titles, and he only won two titles because MJ decided not to win them.Kevin Garnett:6 times All Defensive first team2 times All Defensive second teamFor four straight years has led the league in rebounding#15 in PER all time2 times lead the league in player wins, two times has been secondCareer averages of 20.5 points, 11.4 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.4 steals, and 1.7 blocks, 49.1 FG%1 time MVPHas never missed more than 6 games in any of his 12 seasons, despites being in the top ten in minutes played in 7 years#14 all time in win shares Thats pretty damn good. With that said, I have them ranked extremely closely.

 

[RedRaiders]

Bill Simmons thinks Seattle has the karma for it.Go Brit!

THANK YOU RED I LOVE YOU!

I'm excited for my friends in Seattle.

 

[Britney Spears]

Seattle is gonna move here to Las Vegas....let em get #2 and Durant...he would be fun to watch...

SCREW YOU!

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

OK, hypothetical question: if you were starting a franchise.. would you take Duncan in his prime.. or Kevin Garnett? You have no others players on your team.

Duncan. I love both of them though and both would be in my top 10 if I were starting a team(only including players in my lifetime). In fact heres my list of players I would take if I were starting a team:

So, if Oden's upside is a Duncan-like impact and Durants upside is Garnett (as many have proclaimed).....dont you take Oden, regardless if you have a Zach Randolph or Aldridge on your squad??Call me crazy, but I see Durant being Carmelo Anthony with better range and less back to basket ability. A great scorer, decent rebounder in the league... but not someone who is going to guarantee you possible runs at a championship.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Dude, you're getting what I'm saying confused. What I'm saying is that imagine after further scouting, you no longer think that Oden's upside is better than Durant's. After further scouting, you think they are exactly equal.

Nowhere in this thread did I intend to even talk about which player is better or who has more upside. All I was ever saying was that if they were COMPLETELY EQUAL than Durant is the better fit.

 

[Assani Fisher]

$1000 bet, right now:

If the Blazers draft Oden, before the season starts I will be able to find at least 5 reputable sports writers that mention the Blazers having thoughts of trading Randolph.

that's a bad bet b/c "reputable" is far too subjective.

they may trade him or shop him around. but, my point is they don't have to move him. if taking Odom and trading Randolph makes their team better than drafting Durant, what's the problem?



if you were running the Blazers, who would you take?

Not sure right now. Probably Oden though. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm arguing here though.

 

[No. 16]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

For the last time,I'm not saying that they shouldn't take Oden. I'm not saying that a dominant center isn't valuable. I'm just saying that hes not a perfect fit because they'll have to make some trades to fit him in.

why do they "have" to trade anybody? since when does an NBA team = just the starting lineup?why don't you think an NBA team can make good use of a rotation with Randolph, Aldridge, and Oden?

Starting Randolph and Oden with Aldridge backing up both looks like a pretty sweet setup to me. Plenty of minutes to go around too.

$1000 bet, right now:If the Blazers draft Oden, before the season starts I will be able to find at least 5 reputable sports writers that mention the Blazers having thoughts of trading Randolph.

Im sure that's correct but entertaining trade offers is a far cry from the mandatory trade that you were referencing earlier.

Agreed.But if Oden was a "perfect fit" then why would a perfect fit cause a team to suddenly start looking to trade one of it's players? Should a "perfect fit" come in and compliment everyone and not require any trades?

By your definition Oden is not a perfect fit.He is a replacement, and upgrade.

I'd rather take the upgrade than the perfect fit.

 

[Dought Man]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

He said that I "can't possibly" think they grade out equally when I take positions into consideration. I don't think thats true. How can you guys not see a POSSIBILITY where NBA scouts take a closer look at two players and change their minds? It happens all the time! A year ago, didn't most people think Brady Quinn was gonna be the #1 pick. Doesn't he play the most important position?

I just don't see how you guys don't think its possible that private workouts, interviews, etc. will change anything.

Jefferson, i'm not even arguing for Durant in this thread. I'm simply saying that its POSSIBLE that they grade out evenly(even when taking positions into consideration). And I'm saying that Durant fits better with teh current Blazers team. Thats it!

OK, hypothetical question: if you were starting a franchise.. would you take Duncan in his prime.. or Kevin Garnett? You have no others players on your team.

Duncan. I love both of them though and both would be in my top 10 if I were starting a team(only including players in my lifetime). In fact heres my list of players I would take if I were starting a team:

So, if Oden's upside is a Duncan-like impact and Durants upside is Garnett (as many have proclaimed).....dont you take Oden, regardless if you have a Zach Randolph or Aldridge on your squad??Call me crazy, but I see Durant being Carmelo Anthony with better range and less back to basket ability. A great scorer, decent rebounder in the league... but not someone who is going to guarantee you possible runs at a championship.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Dude, you're getting what I'm saying confused. What I'm saying is that imagine after further scouting, you no longer think that Oden's upside is better than Durant's. After further scouting, you think they are exactly equal.

Nowhere in this thread did I intend to even talk about which player is better or who has more upside. All I was ever saying was that if they were COMPLETELY EQUAL than Durant is the better fit.

I get what you are saying, I just disagree ! You dont ask any questions in this spot. As a GM, you take the potential once in a decade center and you go to bed.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

For the last time,I'm not saying that they shouldn't take Oden. I'm not saying that a dominant center isn't valuable. I'm just saying that hes not a perfect fit because they'll have to make some trades to fit him in.

why do they "have" to trade anybody? since when does an NBA team = just the starting lineup?why don't you think an NBA team can make good use of a rotation with Randolph, Aldridge, and Oden?

Starting Randolph and Oden with Aldridge backing up both looks like a pretty sweet setup to me. Plenty of minutes to go around too.

$1000 bet, right now:If the Blazers draft Oden, before the season starts I will be able to find at least 5 reputable sports writers that mention the Blazers having thoughts of trading Randolph.

Im sure that's correct but entertaining trade offers is a far cry from the mandatory trade that you were referencing earlier.

Agreed.But if Oden was a "perfect fit" then why would a perfect fit cause a team to suddenly start looking to trade one of it's players? Should a "perfect fit" come in and compliment everyone and not require any trades?

By your definition Oden is not a perfect fit.He is a replacement, and upgrade.

I'd rather take the upgrade than the perfect fit.

I agree with you completely. All I've ever been trying to argue against is that Oden is not a perfect fit.

 

[Billy Bats]

I hate basketball but I'm real happy that the two biggest tankers got screwed tonight.

Question, why don't they show the actual drawing of ping pong balls on live tv, like your state lottery??

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

if you were running the Blazers, who would you take?

Not sure right now. Probably Oden though. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm arguing here though.

well, I think you probably got a little too hung up on the phrase "perfect fit". he's a good enough fit that it's not a mistake to take him there.