2007 NBA DRAFT - ODEN and PORTLAND CRIPPLED (1 Viewer)

[Assani Fisher]

But if they grade out equally then they should take Durant because they have a bigger need there.

disagree. if they grade out equally, you take the Center over a player from any other position, regardless of need. Durant's a great consolation prize at #2, but Oden is still the crown jewel of this draft class. I'm guessing at least 80% or more of NBA GMs would take Oden over Durant.

I mean that after you consider the center vs SF aspect and that "centers are more important to win a title", they still grade out equally...then you draft for need.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Trading the pick is crazy talk, just crazy. No matter the situation, you work around it.

Oden would be a good fit in Seattle imo. If they make an offer to move up, I think the Blazers have to seriously consider it.

What could they possibly offer? Anything they have is pretty redundant if the T-Blazers took Durant.

next year's #1?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Aldridge is a PF, he's not really a back to the basket kid anyways. Man, Portland is going to be good.

Trading out because Aldridge can play center makes me Guy barely played his rookie year.

Agreed. It's not supposed to be career threatening, but Aldridge also was diagnosed with a heart condition and had to miss the last few weeks. With the question marks on him and Randolph, and a good wing player in Roy, you can't pass on Oden.

Ultimately with the #1 overall pick you don't draft for need. So if they truly think Oden is a better prospect then I'd agree with you guys that they take Oden.But anyone arguing that the Trailblazers have a bigger need at center is completely insane! Their best two players according to RR last year were big men and they just spent a #2 overall pick on a big man. Meanwhile their small forward is Ime Udoka. Quick, without looking it up, can anyone tell me anything about Ime Udoka?

IMO, Durant's talent/skills are much more redundant with Randolph/Alridge than Oden's are.

Interesting point, but I disagree. You cannot play Aldridge/Oden/Randolph on the floor at the same time. None of them could guard a good SF. Can you imagine any of them guarding Tracy McGrady? You could play Durant with those two though.

You get rid of Randolph, for peanuts. And before his piss-poor attitude can infect Oden.

I agree that this is what will probably happen. So they would be getting "peanuts" in return for their current best player and a guy that was mentioned as an MVP candiate last year. That is why I don't think its a "perfect fit." When I think "perfect fit" I think of a guy that wouldn't cause you to have to make any traded because he.....fits in perfectly with the way things are.If we're going to call everyone who could fit in with a team after they made a trade then EVERY PLAYER WOULD BE A PERFECT FIT FOR EVERY TEAM.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Jack has been serviceable at PG but he has "career backup" written all over him. Then again, elite PGs are as rare as hen's teeth and can be pretty much counted on one hand (Nash, Kidd, maybe Parker, maybe Chris Paul or Deron Williams, who else?).

Roy can also play the point if they needed him to. I agree that Jack probably isn't the long-term answer there, but he's serviceable.as for elite PGs, Arenas and Billups probably belong in the conversation although they aren't exactly pass-first guys like Kidd and Nash and Paul.

 

[Domination]

I think that Durrant is the same type of player as KG, but it has been proven that it is hard to win without a solid inside presence, and the exception would be the Bulls with MJ. Oden reminds me of Hakeem, and I think with time he could develop into the same type of player. There should be no question, that even though Durrant is the more polished player, Oden should be the #1 pick.

 

[Your Mother]

You think that Oden is great because you've heard a few ESPN talking heads say so.

Condescending much? I remember reading somewhere (it might have been Chad Ford) that he polled a bunch of NBA GM's. The vast majority of them said they would take Oden over Durant. No names of the GM's are involved, and it's not really a situation where GM's would be trying to blow smoke up someone's ###, so it's fairly reliable.BTW, I just left a phone message with the Warriors front office asking them to offer up Biedrins for Oden.

Its not condescending at all, at least not meant to be.Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.Fact: Very few FBGs are adapt basketball scouts.Conclusion: The vast majority of FBGs believe that Oden will be better than Durant because of what someone else has told them.

It is.Oden was hurt. Comparing Oden at the end of the season to Durant at the end of the season, there's not a big gap either way.Your second conclusion might be true, but like I said, I think this is based on information that Chad Ford, DraftExpress, et. al. get from legitimate NBA sources. They talk to the NBA scouts and GM's on a fairly consistent basis and I'm sure "Oden vs. Durant" comes up quite a bit.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

But if they grade out equally then they should take Durant because they have a bigger need there.

disagree. if they grade out equally, you take the Center over a player from any other position, regardless of need. Durant's a great consolation prize at #2, but Oden is still the crown jewel of this draft class. I'm guessing at least 80% or more of NBA GMs would take Oden over Durant.

I mean that after you consider the center vs SF aspect and that "centers are more important to win a title", they still grade out equally...then you draft for need.

Durant is awesome and I don't necessarily think it would be a terrible decision to take him #1 overall...but, I think taking Oden will make Portland a better team.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Aldridge is a PF, he's not really a back to the basket kid anyways. Man, Portland is going to be good.

Trading out because Aldridge can play center makes me Guy barely played his rookie year.

Agreed. It's not supposed to be career threatening, but Aldridge also was diagnosed with a heart condition and had to miss the last few weeks. With the question marks on him and Randolph, and a good wing player in Roy, you can't pass on Oden.

Ultimately with the #1 overall pick you don't draft for need. So if they truly think Oden is a better prospect then I'd agree with you guys that they take Oden.But anyone arguing that the Trailblazers have a bigger need at center is completely insane! Their best two players according to RR last year were big men and they just spent a #2 overall pick on a big man. Meanwhile their small forward is Ime Udoka. Quick, without looking it up, can anyone tell me anything about Ime Udoka?

IMO, Durant's talent/skills are much more redundant with Randolph/Alridge than Oden's are.

Interesting point, but I disagree. You cannot play Aldridge/Oden/Randolph on the floor at the same time. None of them could guard a good SF. Can you imagine any of them guarding Tracy McGrady? You could play Durant with those two though.

by the same token, if they were to take Durant, nobody on that team could guard Stoudemire, Duncan, Yao, Boozer, etc. Having a dominant defensive Center makes everybody better. Durant might be the next Garnett, but where has he gotten Minnesota? Oden has Duncan-like upside to me and it's clear which type of player has led to more success.

I understand what you're saying: You think that Oden will help a team win a champion moreso than Durant. I'm not disagreeing. What I'm asking you to do is imagine that the above isn't true. Imagine that the Blazers thoroughly scout both players and determine that they're exactly even when it comes to how much they'd help a team win a championship...then they should draft for need.

 

[PIK95]

I bet David Stern wishes he froze a pingpong ball or two for this lottery. This turned out to be his worst nightmare imo.

Why?You couldn't choose 3 better franchises that needed saving.Seattle - threats of movingPortland - enough saidAtlanta - see aboveThe Boston markets of the league will be just fine.

You are on crack.

You're argument is convincing but please do explain further.

I don't think Stern wanted to see his two new superstars both falling to smaller market west coast teams. I bet there won't be alot of east coast kids staying up until after midnight to see if Portland and Seattle hold on for the win. HTH. I really felt bad for Nique BTW. I thought he was gonna start crying when they said Atlanta #3.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Aldridge is a PF, he's not really a back to the basket kid anyways. Man, Portland is going to be good.

Trading out because Aldridge can play center makes me Guy barely played his rookie year.

Agreed. It's not supposed to be career threatening, but Aldridge also was diagnosed with a heart condition and had to miss the last few weeks. With the question marks on him and Randolph, and a good wing player in Roy, you can't pass on Oden.

Ultimately with the #1 overall pick you don't draft for need. So if they truly think Oden is a better prospect then I'd agree with you guys that they take Oden.But anyone arguing that the Trailblazers have a bigger need at center is completely insane! Their best two players according to RR last year were big men and they just spent a #2 overall pick on a big man. Meanwhile their small forward is Ime Udoka. Quick, without looking it up, can anyone tell me anything about Ime Udoka?

IMO, Durant's talent/skills are much more redundant with Randolph/Alridge than Oden's are.

Interesting point, but I disagree. You cannot play Aldridge/Oden/Randolph on the floor at the same time. None of them could guard a good SF. Can you imagine any of them guarding Tracy McGrady? You could play Durant with those two though.

You get rid of Randolph, for peanuts. And before his piss-poor attitude can infect Oden.

I agree that this is what will probably happen. So they would be getting "peanuts" in return for their current best player and a guy that was mentioned as an MVP candiate last year. That is why I don't think its a "perfect fit." When I think "perfect fit" I think of a guy that wouldn't cause you to have to make any traded because he.....fits in perfectly with the way things are.If we're going to call everyone who could fit in with a team after they made a trade then EVERY PLAYER WOULD BE A PERFECT FIT FOR EVERY TEAM.

Zach Randolph = MVP?WTF?Assani, the Sonics drafted Centers in the first round for 3 straight years and their SF Rashard Lewis is headed for free agency. Why do you think Oden is such a great fit there but not in Portland?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Oden is a perfect fit for the Blazers.

This is basically the sentiment that I'm just not understanding. Obviously any team could use another great player. But why is everyone suddenly acting as if center is the big need spot for Portland?If they draft Oden, then they will probably have to trade someone else away to make room for him. Thats not what I'd call a "perfect fit."

Oden gives them something they don't have...a dominant defensive presence inside.Durant gives them scoring and rebounding, which they can already get from Randolph and Aldridge.

Listen...Do you agree or disagree that if they take Oden then theres a decent shot that Randolph or Aldridge gets traded? A simple one word answer will suffice.

Now, if they get Durant do you agree or disagree that it is not any more likely whatsoever that they'd make a trade than if they hadn't gotten him?

the only teams who could justify passing on Oden are teams that already have a dominant Center. if you don't, you take him. Simple as that.Caron Butler was traded for Kwame Brown. Pretty clear that big guys have way way more value than talented small forwards.

Again, I agree with this....although your example sucks(I could easily point out what Shaq was traded for as a rebuttal).

 

[buster c]

You think that Oden is great because you've heard a few ESPN talking heads say so.

Condescending much? I remember reading somewhere (it might have been Chad Ford) that he polled a bunch of NBA GM's. The vast majority of them said they would take Oden over Durant. No names of the GM's are involved, and it's not really a situation where GM's would be trying to blow smoke up someone's ###, so it's fairly reliable.BTW, I just left a phone message with the Warriors front office asking them to offer up Biedrins for Oden.

Its not condescending at all, at least not meant to be.Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.Fact: Very few FBGs are adapt basketball scouts.Conclusion: The vast majority of FBGs believe that Oden will be better than Durant because of what someone else has told them.

did someone tell you that?you can certainly make the arguement that KD's frosh season was superior to GO's...but that is not what you're basing the future of an NBA franchise on. nobody has to tell me what my eyes see...and I saw plenty of both. for the NBA game, Oden is the choice. that's what my eyes tell me.

 

[Assani Fisher]

You're saying this because you believe that Oden is a better prospect than Durant. You believe this because ESPN has told you so.

FYI, this is really lame shtick.

I'm actually gonna post a further thought on this in the shark pool sometime soon(but more related to football obviously). Its not schtick.

 

[Your Mother]

Would the Sonics sign-and-trade R. Lewis for Randolph? Portland gets a scorer down low to take pressure off Durant and Jesus, Portland gets a 3.

I realize they're in the same division, but it's not exactly a Sox-Yankees type of blood feud.

 

[Domination]

Aldridge is a PF, he's not really a back to the basket kid anyways. Man, Portland is going to be good.

Trading out because Aldridge can play center makes me Guy barely played his rookie year.

Agreed. It's not supposed to be career threatening, but Aldridge also was diagnosed with a heart condition and had to miss the last few weeks. With the question marks on him and Randolph, and a good wing player in Roy, you can't pass on Oden.

Ultimately with the #1 overall pick you don't draft for need. So if they truly think Oden is a better prospect then I'd agree with you guys that they take Oden.But anyone arguing that the Trailblazers have a bigger need at center is completely insane! Their best two players according to RR last year were big men and they just spent a #2 overall pick on a big man. Meanwhile their small forward is Ime Udoka. Quick, without looking it up, can anyone tell me anything about Ime Udoka?

IMO, Durant's talent/skills are much more redundant with Randolph/Alridge than Oden's are.

Interesting point, but I disagree. You cannot play Aldridge/Oden/Randolph on the floor at the same time. None of them could guard a good SF. Can you imagine any of them guarding Tracy McGrady? You could play Durant with those two though.

You get rid of Randolph, for peanuts. And before his piss-poor attitude can infect Oden.

I agree that this is what will probably happen. So they would be getting "peanuts" in return for their current best player and a guy that was mentioned as an MVP candiate last year. That is why I don't think its a "perfect fit." When I think "perfect fit" I think of a guy that wouldn't cause you to have to make any traded because he.....fits in perfectly with the way things are.If we're going to call everyone who could fit in with a team after they made a trade then EVERY PLAYER WOULD BE A PERFECT FIT FOR EVERY TEAM.

Zach Randolph = MVP?WTF?Assani, the Sonics drafted Centers in the first round for 3 straight years and their SF Rashard Lewis is headed for free agency. Why do you think Oden is such a great fit there but not in Portland?

The shame of it all is that if the Sonics were to get Oden, then I think they would try to keep Lewis. If all of this were to happen, I believe that they would be a force in the west.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Again, I agree with this....although your example sucks(I could easily point out what Shaq was traded for as a rebuttal).

I don't remember the entire deal, but weren't Odom and Butler two key pieces?1 great center >> 2 very good forwards

 

[Assani Fisher]

Oden is a perfect fit for the Blazers.

This is basically the sentiment that I'm just not understanding. Obviously any team could use another great player. But why is everyone suddenly acting as if center is the big need spot for Portland?If they draft Oden, then they will probably have to trade someone else away to make room for him. Thats not what I'd call a "perfect fit."

Oden gives them something they don't have...a dominant defensive presence inside.Durant gives them scoring and rebounding, which they can already get from Randolph and Aldridge.

Listen...Do you agree or disagree that if they take Oden then theres a decent shot that Randolph or Aldridge gets traded? A simple one word answer will suffice.

Now, if they get Durant do you agree or disagree that it is not any more likely whatsoever that they'd make a trade than if they hadn't gotten him?

the only teams who could justify passing on Oden are teams that already have a dominant Center. if you don't, you take him. Simple as that.Caron Butler was traded for Kwame Brown. Pretty clear that big guys have way way more value than talented small forwards.

I think it also is pretty clear that Durant is more than just a "talented small forward". Not that I disagree with your conclusion necessarily, but Durant is >>>>>>> Caron Butler.

of course he is, but that wasn't the point at all.Assani keeps saying "if you grade these guys equally, you take the one that fills a need."

everyone else is telling him that's wrong. if you grade these 2 guys equally, you take the Center over the forward.

bottom line for me is that I think Oden gives them a better chance at becoming championship contenders than Durant does.

With both players going to the same division and playing so close to each other geographically, it should be a good rivalry and will be fun to watch them both develop.

GM and Britney Spears have to be pretty psyched about all this.

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

You're saying this because you believe that Oden is a better prospect than Durant. You believe this because ESPN has told you so.

FYI, this is really lame shtick.

I'm actually gonna post a further thought on this in the shark pool sometime soon(but more related to football obviously). Its not schtick.

ESPN is awful and generally unwatchable these days. I couldn't tell you what one person on ESPN has said about Oden vs Durant.

 

[Your Mother]

Aldridge is a PF, he's not really a back to the basket kid anyways. Man, Portland is going to be good.

Trading out because Aldridge can play center makes me Guy barely played his rookie year.

Agreed. It's not supposed to be career threatening, but Aldridge also was diagnosed with a heart condition and had to miss the last few weeks. With the question marks on him and Randolph, and a good wing player in Roy, you can't pass on Oden.

Ultimately with the #1 overall pick you don't draft for need. So if they truly think Oden is a better prospect then I'd agree with you guys that they take Oden.But anyone arguing that the Trailblazers have a bigger need at center is completely insane! Their best two players according to RR last year were big men and they just spent a #2 overall pick on a big man. Meanwhile their small forward is Ime Udoka. Quick, without looking it up, can anyone tell me anything about Ime Udoka?

IMO, Durant's talent/skills are much more redundant with Randolph/Alridge than Oden's are.

Interesting point, but I disagree. You cannot play Aldridge/Oden/Randolph on the floor at the same time. None of them could guard a good SF. Can you imagine any of them guarding Tracy McGrady? You could play Durant with those two though.

You get rid of Randolph, for peanuts. And before his piss-poor attitude can infect Oden.

I agree that this is what will probably happen. So they would be getting "peanuts" in return for their current best player and a guy that was mentioned as an MVP candiate last year. That is why I don't think its a "perfect fit." When I think "perfect fit" I think of a guy that wouldn't cause you to have to make any traded because he.....fits in perfectly with the way things are.If we're going to call everyone who could fit in with a team after they made a trade then EVERY PLAYER WOULD BE A PERFECT FIT FOR EVERY TEAM.

Zach Randolph = MVP?WTF?Assani, the Sonics drafted Centers in the first round for 3 straight years and their SF Rashard Lewis is headed for free agency. Why do you think Oden is such a great fit there but not in Portland?

The shame of it all is that if the Sonics were to get Oden, then I think they would try to keep Lewis. If all of this were to happen, I believe that they would be a force in the west.

Seattle getting Oden would provide a lot of motivation for Lewis to stay, provided that the money was right.

 

[HellToupee]

cripes the 5th pick

 

[Domination]

Oden is a perfect fit for the Blazers.

This is basically the sentiment that I'm just not understanding. Obviously any team could use another great player. But why is everyone suddenly acting as if center is the big need spot for Portland?If they draft Oden, then they will probably have to trade someone else away to make room for him. Thats not what I'd call a "perfect fit."

Oden gives them something they don't have...a dominant defensive presence inside.Durant gives them scoring and rebounding, which they can already get from Randolph and Aldridge.

Listen...Do you agree or disagree that if they take Oden then theres a decent shot that Randolph or Aldridge gets traded? A simple one word answer will suffice.

Now, if they get Durant do you agree or disagree that it is not any more likely whatsoever that they'd make a trade than if they hadn't gotten him?

the only teams who could justify passing on Oden are teams that already have a dominant Center. if you don't, you take him. Simple as that.Caron Butler was traded for Kwame Brown. Pretty clear that big guys have way way more value than talented small forwards.

I think it also is pretty clear that Durant is more than just a "talented small forward". Not that I disagree with your conclusion necessarily, but Durant is >>>>>>> Caron Butler.

of course he is, but that wasn't the point at all.Assani keeps saying "if you grade these guys equally, you take the one that fills a need."

everyone else is telling him that's wrong. if you grade these 2 guys equally, you take the Center over the forward.

bottom line for me is that I think Oden gives them a better chance at becoming championship contenders than Durant does.

With both players going to the same division and playing so close to each other geographically, it should be a good rivalry and will be fun to watch them both develop.

GM and Britney Spears have to be pretty psyched about all this.

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

 

[Assani Fisher]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example: Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

 

[Your Mother]

The Blazers have cleaned up somewhat. Randolph is still a registered sex offender (you'll have to look it up, I don't think I can recount the details here), and Miles is a malcontent, but his knee is fux0red.Any NBA team can survive one knucklehead. If Miles retires/is in perpetual rehab, I don't think Randolph can corrupt the entire team by himself. It was a different story back when he had 'Sheed and Bonzi around.

Don't forget Qyntel Woods 2001 was Kemp, Wallace & Wells, but Pippen, Greg Anthony & Steve Smith kept them in line.2002 was Kemp, Wallace & Wells, plus Patterson, Stoudamire and Randolph (great role models for him).2003-04 was Wallace, Wells, Patterson, Randolph, Stoudamire and Qyntel Woods2005 was Randolph, Miles, Stoudamire & Patterson, plus Telfair (again, great role models for the rookie)2006 was Randolph, Miles, Patterson & Telfair2007 was Randolph (plus Miles on disabled list)This was the first season since 1995 that Portland didn't have at least 2 major knuckleheads on its active roster.

Wasn't Qytnel into dog-fighting or cockfighting or some other #### as well?

 

[cacksman]

If Seattle somehow got Oden, I would nutt in my pants.

 

[Your Mother]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis.

I think it's a little early to call the clock on Sene and Swift.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.

which player went farther in the NCAA tournament?which player played most of the year with one hand?

Aaron, you're killing me man. You're just not being honest in this debate.Do you really think that the majority of FBGs here feel the way they do because of what they've personally watched and scouted and not because of what people have told them? Do you really think that if every ESPN expert was saying that Durant was the concensus #1 pick that everyone in this thread would still feel that Oden should be #1?

 

[Domination]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example: Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

I think that once you get past the Elite players in the draft, then you might draft for need. But if you look at previous drafts as an example, centers are always a sought after comodity and drafted ahead of more talented players due to the scarcity of the position.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

assume for a minute that Seattle got the #1 pick. Who do you think they should take and why?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example: Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

Seattle can't play Wilcox, Collison, and Oden on the floor together either so I guess they should take Durant?

 

[Assani Fisher]

But if they grade out equally then they should take Durant because they have a bigger need there.

disagree. if they grade out equally, you take the Center over a player from any other position, regardless of need. Durant's a great consolation prize at #2, but Oden is still the crown jewel of this draft class. I'm guessing at least 80% or more of NBA GMs would take Oden over Durant.

I mean that after you consider the center vs SF aspect and that "centers are more important to win a title", they still grade out equally...then you draft for need.

Durant is awesome and I don't necessarily think it would be a terrible decision to take him #1 overall...but, I think taking Oden will make Portland a better team.

I'm not asking you what you think. You're completely missing my point. I want you to imagine for a second that you take a closer look at Oden/Durant and you change your mind and decide that they're exactly equal in your eyes. Then who do you take for Portland? I think you clearly take Durant because hes the better fit with their current team. Thats all I was ever saying. I was simply disagreeing that "Oden is a perfect fit there." Thats it! Please don't go off on another tangent or start putting more words in my mouth...thats all I've ever been saying.

 

[JMon348]

The Blazers still have a young Martell Webster who could potentially play the 3 when Jack and Roy are in the backcourt.

Webster has been something of a bust so far. Granted, he's 20 years old and should be a sophomore in college, but I have yet to see in him any of the "flashes" that we saw in Kobe or McGrady at the same age.Jack has been serviceable at PG but he has "career backup" written all over him. Then again, elite PGs are as rare as hen's teeth and can be pretty much counted on one hand (Nash, Kidd, maybe Parker, maybe Chris Paul or Deron Williams, who else?).

i disagree on both.Websters not going to be a TMac or Kobe, hopefully, for the Blazers he becomes a consistent shooter. If he becomes a poor man's dale ellis, a great shooter type player, he'll play his role perfect.I think Jack is more of a servicable PG, i think he's a solid consistent 32min, playoff type PG. I dont think he's a career backup, i also dont think he'll ever be an allstar, but just a nice consistent PG. He can hit the open shot, can penetrate and dish, and he's a leader.Jack,Webster,Roy,Aldridge,Oden is a great core. If they trade Randolph and one of those guys(probably Webster) and get a SF. WOW.Imagine if Darius Miles were healthy, WOW.Udoka, Przybilla, Rodriguez,Outlaw, FA MLE.Im HAPPY if im a Blazer fan.

 

[thecatch]

Aldridge is a PF, he's not really a back to the basket kid anyways. Man, Portland is going to be good.

Trading out because Aldridge can play center makes me Guy barely played his rookie year.

Agreed. It's not supposed to be career threatening, but Aldridge also was diagnosed with a heart condition and had to miss the last few weeks. With the question marks on him and Randolph, and a good wing player in Roy, you can't pass on Oden.

Ultimately with the #1 overall pick you don't draft for need. So if they truly think Oden is a better prospect then I'd agree with you guys that they take Oden.But anyone arguing that the Trailblazers have a bigger need at center is completely insane! Their best two players according to RR last year were big men and they just spent a #2 overall pick on a big man. Meanwhile their small forward is Ime Udoka. Quick, without looking it up, can anyone tell me anything about Ime Udoka?

IMO, Durant's talent/skills are much more redundant with Randolph/Alridge than Oden's are.

Interesting point, but I disagree. You cannot play Aldridge/Oden/Randolph on the floor at the same time. None of them could guard a good SF. Can you imagine any of them guarding Tracy McGrady? You could play Durant with those two though.

You get rid of Randolph, for peanuts. And before his piss-poor attitude can infect Oden.

I agree that this is what will probably happen. So they would be getting "peanuts" in return for their current best player and a guy that was mentioned as an MVP candiate last year. That is why I don't think its a "perfect fit." When I think "perfect fit" I think of a guy that wouldn't cause you to have to make any traded because he.....fits in perfectly with the way things are.If we're going to call everyone who could fit in with a team after they made a trade then EVERY PLAYER WOULD BE A PERFECT FIT FOR EVERY TEAM.

Zach Randolph = MVP?WTF?

Thank you, I was worrying nobody was going to call him on this.Assani, if you had Randolph as an MVP candidate last year, your basketball scouting skills are not nearly what you think they are.

 

[_4_]

The Blazers have cleaned up somewhat. Randolph is still a registered sex offender (you'll have to look it up, I don't think I can recount the details here), and Miles is a malcontent, but his knee is fux0red.Any NBA team can survive one knucklehead. If Miles retires/is in perpetual rehab, I don't think Randolph can corrupt the entire team by himself. It was a different story back when he had 'Sheed and Bonzi around.

Don't forget Qyntel Woods 2001 was Kemp, Wallace & Wells, but Pippen, Greg Anthony & Steve Smith kept them in line.2002 was Kemp, Wallace & Wells, plus Patterson, Stoudamire and Randolph (great role models for him).2003-04 was Wallace, Wells, Patterson, Randolph, Stoudamire and Qyntel Woods2005 was Randolph, Miles, Stoudamire & Patterson, plus Telfair (again, great role models for the rookie)2006 was Randolph, Miles, Patterson & Telfair2007 was Randolph (plus Miles on disabled list)This was the first season since 1995 that Portland didn't have at least 2 major knuckleheads on its active roster.

Wasn't Qytnel into dog-fighting or cockfighting or some other #### as well?

Dog fighting. But that's ok - ask Clinton Portis.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.

which player went farther in the NCAA tournament?which player played most of the year with one hand?

Aaron, you're killing me man. You're just not being honest in this debate.Do you really think that the majority of FBGs here feel the way they do because of what they've personally watched and scouted and not because of what people have told them? Do you really think that if every ESPN expert was saying that Durant was the concensus #1 pick that everyone in this thread would still feel that Oden should be #1?

look at the list of recent NBA champions and the Centers that played for them. Other than Jordan's Bulls, a dominant Center seems to always win out. You don't see Dirk, Garnett, Malone, etc. collecting championship rings for a reason.Heat: ShaqSpurs: DuncanPistons: WallaceLakers: ShaqRockets: Olajuwonbtw, having a "better freshman year" doesn't mean everything when trying to project how good/great a player will be in the pros.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Aldridge is a PF, he's not really a back to the basket kid anyways.

Man, Portland is going to be good.

Trading out because Aldridge can play center makes me Guy barely played his rookie year.

Agreed. It's not supposed to be career threatening, but Aldridge also was diagnosed with a heart condition and had to miss the last few weeks. With the question marks on him and Randolph, and a good wing player in Roy, you can't pass on Oden.

Ultimately with the #1 overall pick you don't draft for need. So if they truly think Oden is a better prospect then I'd agree with you guys that they take Oden.But anyone arguing that the Trailblazers have a bigger need at center is completely insane! Their best two players according to RR last year were big men and they just spent a #2 overall pick on a big man. Meanwhile their small forward is Ime Udoka. Quick, without looking it up, can anyone tell me anything about Ime Udoka?

IMO, Durant's talent/skills are much more redundant with Randolph/Alridge than Oden's are.

Interesting point, but I disagree. You cannot play Aldridge/Oden/Randolph on the floor at the same time. None of them could guard a good SF. Can you imagine any of them guarding Tracy McGrady? You could play Durant with those two though.

You get rid of Randolph, for peanuts. And before his piss-poor attitude can infect Oden.

I agree that this is what will probably happen. So they would be getting "peanuts" in return for their current best player and a guy that was mentioned as an MVP candiate last year. That is why I don't think its a "perfect fit." When I think "perfect fit" I think of a guy that wouldn't cause you to have to make any traded because he.....fits in perfectly with the way things are.

If we're going to call everyone who could fit in with a team after they made a trade then EVERY PLAYER WOULD BE A PERFECT FIT FOR EVERY TEAM.

Zach Randolph = MVP?WTF?

Assani, the Sonics drafted Centers in the first round for 3 straight years and their SF Rashard Lewis is headed for free agency. Why do you think Oden is such a great fit there but not in Portland?

Dwyer's player rankings(which are essentially MVP rankings):Randolph is unranked to start the year

After 2 weeks, hes suddenly #1

#5

#7

#7

#10

#12

#16

Anyway, I don't feel like going on and on. As you can see, he regressed as the year began, but as I said he was considered an MVP candidate early on with his great play to start the season.

NBA.com also does a regular "race to the MVP" feature, and he was rankded similarly throughout. I don't feel like linking it all, but feel free to look at it for yourself.

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

You think that Oden is great because you've heard a few ESPN talking heads say so.

Condescending much? I remember reading somewhere (it might have been Chad Ford) that he polled a bunch of NBA GM's. The vast majority of them said they would take Oden over Durant. No names of the GM's are involved, and it's not really a situation where GM's would be trying to blow smoke up someone's ###, so it's fairly reliable.BTW, I just left a phone message with the Warriors front office asking them to offer up Biedrins for Oden.

Its not condescending at all, at least not meant to be.Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.Fact: Very few FBGs are adapt basketball scouts.Conclusion: The vast majority of FBGs believe that Oden will be better than Durant because of what someone else has told them.

Assani, footballguys aside, you won't even get NBA GMs agree with you, so you sound pretty ridiculous right now.I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

 

[Domination]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Oden is a perfect fit for the Blazers.

This is basically the sentiment that I'm just not understanding. Obviously any team could use another great player. But why is everyone suddenly acting as if center is the big need spot for Portland?If they draft Oden, then they will probably have to trade someone else away to make room for him. Thats not what I'd call a "perfect fit."

Oden gives them something they don't have...a dominant defensive presence inside.Durant gives them scoring and rebounding, which they can already get from Randolph and Aldridge.

Listen...Do you agree or disagree that if they take Oden then theres a decent shot that Randolph or Aldridge gets traded? A simple one word answer will suffice.

Now, if they get Durant do you agree or disagree that it is not any more likely whatsoever that they'd make a trade than if they hadn't gotten him?

the only teams who could justify passing on Oden are teams that already have a dominant Center. if you don't, you take him. Simple as that.Caron Butler was traded for Kwame Brown. Pretty clear that big guys have way way more value than talented small forwards.

I think it also is pretty clear that Durant is more than just a "talented small forward". Not that I disagree with your conclusion necessarily, but Durant is >>>>>>> Caron Butler.

of course he is, but that wasn't the point at all.Assani keeps saying "if you grade these guys equally, you take the one that fills a need."

everyone else is telling him that's wrong. if you grade these 2 guys equally, you take the Center over the forward.

bottom line for me is that I think Oden gives them a better chance at becoming championship contenders than Durant does.

With both players going to the same division and playing so close to each other geographically, it should be a good rivalry and will be fun to watch them both develop.

GM and Britney Spears have to be pretty psyched about all this.

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

But if they grade out equally then they should take Durant because they have a bigger need there.

disagree. if they grade out equally, you take the Center over a player from any other position, regardless of need. Durant's a great consolation prize at #2, but Oden is still the crown jewel of this draft class. I'm guessing at least 80% or more of NBA GMs would take Oden over Durant.

I mean that after you consider the center vs SF aspect and that "centers are more important to win a title", they still grade out equally...then you draft for need.

Durant is awesome and I don't necessarily think it would be a terrible decision to take him #1 overall...but, I think taking Oden will make Portland a better team.

I'm not asking you what you think. You're completely missing my point. I want you to imagine for a second that you take a closer look at Oden/Durant and you change your mind and decide that they're exactly equal in your eyes. Then who do you take for Portland? I think you clearly take Durant because hes the better fit with their current team. Thats all I was ever saying. I was simply disagreeing that "Oden is a perfect fit there." Thats it! Please don't go off on another tangent or start putting more words in my mouth...thats all I've ever been saying.

He's a great fit b/c they don't have a legit center, and that's the hardest thing to find. Sure, they could probably use an upgrade at the 3 spot a little more, but it makes more sense to lock up an elite Center now and hope to find a good SF later on than it does to fill the (slightly) bigger need now and hope to find a great C later on.

 

[Assani Fisher]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis.

I think it's a little early to call the clock on Sene and Swift.

The point is that none of them are anything but "potential" guys. Aldridge and Randolph are legit starters right now and bringing in another big man would not be a perfect fit. I'm honestly shocked at this entire argument. I feel as if I've been very clear on what I'm saying and many people keep arguing something totally different.

 

[Your Mother]

I would say you don't seem to understand the value of a dominant center.

That is the best and easiest way to put it.

I watched, in person, Okafor's entire junior year with Connecticut (not to say he's a dominant NBA center, but he was in college obviously). It's difficult to underestimate the impact that a dominant rebounder-shotblocker has on both ends of the floor.

 

[Assani Fisher]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example: Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

I think that once you get past the Elite players in the draft, then you might draft for need. But if you look at previous drafts as an example, centers are always a sought after comodity and drafted ahead of more talented players due to the scarcity of the position.

Agreed completely. Thats all I was saying was the Portland does need a SF more than a center. So it isn't a "perfect fit" for the best player this year to be a center. Please tell me that you guys understand what I'm saying now.

 

[Sammy3469]

Fact: Durant had a better freshman year than Oden. You can look at any numbers your want, but you'll see that fact is true.

which player went farther in the NCAA tournament?which player played most of the year with one hand?

Aaron, you're killing me man. You're just not being honest in this debate.Do you really think that the majority of FBGs here feel the way they do because of what they've personally watched and scouted and not because of what people have told them? Do you really think that if every ESPN expert was saying that Durant was the concensus #1 pick that everyone in this thread would still feel that Oden should be #1?

look at the list of recent NBA champions and the Centers that played for them. Other than Jordan's Bulls, a dominant Center seems to always win out. You don't see Dirk, Garnett, Malone, etc. collecting championship rings for a reason.Heat: ShaqSpurs: DuncanPistons: WallaceLakers: ShaqRockets: Olajuwonbtw, having a "better freshman year" doesn't mean everything when trying to project how good/great a player will be in the pros.

even on Jordan's teams they had above average inside defenders in Cartwright/Ho Grant and then Rodman. No one currently on the Blazers is even average.

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

Oden is a perfect fit for the Blazers.

This is basically the sentiment that I'm just not understanding. Obviously any team could use another great player. But why is everyone suddenly acting as if center is the big need spot for Portland?If they draft Oden, then they will probably have to trade someone else away to make room for him. Thats not what I'd call a "perfect fit."

Oden gives them something they don't have...a dominant defensive presence inside.Durant gives them scoring and rebounding, which they can already get from Randolph and Aldridge.

Listen...Do you agree or disagree that if they take Oden then theres a decent shot that Randolph or Aldridge gets traded? A simple one word answer will suffice.

Now, if they get Durant do you agree or disagree that it is not any more likely whatsoever that they'd make a trade than if they hadn't gotten him?

the only teams who could justify passing on Oden are teams that already have a dominant Center. if you don't, you take him. Simple as that.Caron Butler was traded for Kwame Brown. Pretty clear that big guys have way way more value than talented small forwards.

I think it also is pretty clear that Durant is more than just a "talented small forward". Not that I disagree with your conclusion necessarily, but Durant is >>>>>>> Caron Butler.

of course he is, but that wasn't the point at all.Assani keeps saying "if you grade these guys equally, you take the one that fills a need."

everyone else is telling him that's wrong. if you grade these 2 guys equally, you take the Center over the forward.

bottom line for me is that I think Oden gives them a better chance at becoming championship contenders than Durant does.

With both players going to the same division and playing so close to each other geographically, it should be a good rivalry and will be fun to watch them both develop.

GM and Britney Spears have to be pretty psyched about all this.

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

You cant possibly think that they grade out equally if you take their positions into consideration. A stud Center only comes around every couple years, while you can get a stud forward just about every year.

Why not? Kevin Durant grades out higher than Roy Hibbert right? Is Hibbert not a center? I understand that "centers are more valuable because they win championships." That doesn't mean that every center grades out better than every guard.

What does Roy Hibbert have to do with this? We are talking about Greg Oden.Asssani, if it makes you feel any better, if Oden were not in this draft, Durant would be the #1 pick. Are you okay now?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

The Blazers have four 2nd round picks???

 

[Sammy3469]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example:

Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?

That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

I think that once you get past the Elite players in the draft, then you might draft for need. But if you look at previous drafts as an example, centers are always a sought after comodity and drafted ahead of more talented players due to the scarcity of the position.

Agreed completely. Thats all I was saying was the Portland does need a SF more than a center. So it isn't a "perfect fit" for the best player this year to be a center. Please tell me that you guys understand what I'm saying now.

I totally disagree...the Blazers have two PFs in Randolph and Aldridge trying to play center....they don't have a inside dominator on defense.

 

[Assani Fisher]

This is what you're not understanding. When I say "grade out equally" I mean that they grade out equally TAKING THEIR POSITIONS AND THE RARITY OF THEIR POSITIONS INTO CONSIDERATION.

assume for a minute that Seattle got the #1 pick. Who do you think they should take and why?

Aaron,please please stop going in circles. You've completely ignored my points throughout this argument. Here they are:-Looking at Portland's current roster, their biggest need would be a SF, maybe you could argue PG. But they are strong at PF and C(relatively in comparison to the rest of their team).-Seattle has a ton of weakness. If they resign Lewis, then SG and SF are their strengths. Their center position is serverely lacking.-Oden is probably the best prospect. Durant is very close.Thats really it.

 

[trader jake]

Assani has lost his mind.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It's difficult to underestimate the impact that a dominant rebounder-shotblocker has on both ends of the floor.

don't you mean overestimate here?

 

[Assani Fisher]

as for Assani's claim that Seattle is a "great fit" for Oden, what about the fact that SF Rashard Lewis is a free agent and they spent their last 3 1st round picks on Centers?

None of those three centers have shown much. They can resign Lewis. Again with my example: Suppose that Portland had the #5 pick. Do you disagree that Portland would target a SF like Green or Brewer instead of WRight, Horfort, or Jianlian?That should tell you what their biggest need is. Thats ALL I'M SAYING.

Seattle can't play Wilcox, Collison, and Oden on the floor together either so I guess they should take Durant?

Wilcox and Collison are not very good players. You send them to the bench if you can draft someone better.Randolph and Aldridge are very good players. You'd rather address other areas of need before drafting someone at their position.