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2007 NBA DRAFT - ODEN and PORTLAND CRIPPLED (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter _4_
- Start date
Sores 
_4_
Footballguy
Laugh your ### off - just like I laughed watching Wisconsin push him around. He has no heart - no love for the game. If he has it, he seldom shows it. A player who I acknowledge has all the gifts in the world, but really - in one full college season made about 2 plays that anyone will ever remember (I only remember the stunning block at the end of one of the NCAA games where he FINALLY decided to use all those god given gifts and leave his man flying after a driving offensive player and block the ball from behind - I am just guessing he displayed that kind of drive at some other point in the season). Mamula might be a great comparison.
Sores 
Your Mother
Footballguy
This has "Lebron will never win a championship"-type potential.Laugh your ### off - just like I laughed watching Wisconsin push him around. He has no heart - no love for the game. If he has it, he seldom shows it. A player who I acknowledge has all the gifts in the world, but really - in one full college season made about 2 plays that anyone will ever remember (I only remember the stunning block at the end of one of the NCAA games where he FINALLY decided to use all those god given gifts and leave his man flying after a driving offensive player and block the ball from behind - I am just guessing he displayed that kind of drive at some other point in the season). Mamula might be a great comparison.
Sores 
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
That's exactly what I thought when I read it.This has "Lebron will never win a championship"-type potential.Laugh your ### off - just like I laughed watching Wisconsin push him around. He has no heart - no love for the game. If he has it, he seldom shows it. A player who I acknowledge has all the gifts in the world, but really - in one full college season made about 2 plays that anyone will ever remember (I only remember the stunning block at the end of one of the NCAA games where he FINALLY decided to use all those god given gifts and leave his man flying after a driving offensive player and block the ball from behind - I am just guessing he displayed that kind of drive at some other point in the season). Mamula might be a great comparison.
I can't wait to see Oden getting bumped up to a 7.5 on the heartness scale.Your Mother
Footballguy
Remember when he mailed it in in the NCAA finals?That's exactly what I thought when I read it.This has "Lebron will never win a championship"-type potential.Laugh your ### off - just like I laughed watching Wisconsin push him around. He has no heart - no love for the game. If he has it, he seldom shows it. A player who I acknowledge has all the gifts in the world, but really - in one full college season made about 2 plays that anyone will ever remember (I only remember the stunning block at the end of one of the NCAA games where he FINALLY decided to use all those god given gifts and leave his man flying after a driving offensive player and block the ball from behind - I am just guessing he displayed that kind of drive at some other point in the season). Mamula might be a great comparison.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
packersfan
Footballguy
Please tell me you're kidding. I completely agree Oden was often far less than impressive against Wisconsin (Conley was easily the best player for Ohio State in all three of those games) but he's going to be a monster in the NBA. He'll be an elite defender and if his offensive game comes along he'll be a true superstar. He has special written all over him.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Has anyone else mentioned that Oden, due to protecting his wrist and by extension his multi-zillion dollar future, could often play down to his competition and still win games? You're right, he had two plays that I remember: the block at the end of the Tennessee game and taking off from just inside the free throw line to try and dunk (Georgetown in the semi's, IIRC). And frankly, those are the only two plays I need to see to know he can and likely will be a special player. I'm not as high on him as most, but I'm fond of saying at worst you get Mutombo/Wallace and at best you get Alonzo/Robinson. He'll never be Hakeem or Shaq, but that's okay.
packersfan
Footballguy
As far as playing down to his competition and still winning I'm not sure that's what was going on. I think he was befuddled by the Badgers in all three games. He didn't use his strength in the post as well as he should have, got frustrated and didn't work hard to compensate. If he was intentionally playing down to preserve himself, then he's pretty damn lucky he had Conley as a teammate because it was Conley who was the key figure in the two wins over the Badgers. I'd say that was a pretty foolish strategy and it could've cost them the conference title if that's what he was doing.
I would agree with those projections. I'm not sure about Robinson (I don't think he'll be as fluid offensively) but I think Ewing would be a good replacement for the high end.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
I wouldn't put Mourning & Robinson in the same category. Robinson is a first-ballot HOFer, 1-time MVP and 4-time All-NBA. Mourning did make the All-NBA team once but he was never quite in that elite tier of centers (that would include Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing, and Robinson).
Last edited by a moderator:
_4_
Footballguy
I can swing with the Mutumbo comparison. I believe Oden can have an immediate impact defensively just because of his length and inate defensive instincts. Mutumbo had a mean streak though and was able to avoid foul trouble - two things Oden (to this point) lacks.
Oden's epitaph will be written based on his ability to develop an offensive game.
Oden's epitaph will be written based on his ability to develop an offensive game.
SKribbles
Footballguy
I really don't want to read through 15 pages so I'm sorry if I missed but is there any mock drafts buried in here? I'm interested in who the Raptors are looking at getting. After the top 10 guys I really have no idea. Any insight?
TIA
Edit: Nevermind... they don't have a pick this year.
TIA
Edit: Nevermind... they don't have a pick this year.
Last edited by a moderator:
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
He has a 7-6 ¾ wingspan, and a 9-3 ½ standing reach. He jumps out of the gym with a 39 inch one-step vertical, bench presses 185 pounds 24 times and runs a 3.3 in the three quarter court sprint. But can he shoot? Dribble? Catch a rebound? Play? Do we even care?
It’s that time once again, our favorite time of the year of course; a few weeks before the draft when everything logical in regards to analyzing basketball gets flushed down the toilet. Instead we focus on superficial things that have proven again and again to have very little correlation with actual success in the NBA.
This player is superior to that player because his standing reach is two inches longer. That guy is a better prospect because he bench pressed 185 pounds 19 times instead of the 8 someone else did. Let’s just forget irrelevant things like how many points and rebounds a player averaged, what kind of drive he has to improve or how many games he helped his team win, because those obviously have no bearing on a player’s success.
Who was the top athlete in the 2003 draft? Thinking logically about that draft, you’d probably assume it was a toss up between Dwyane Wade and Lebron James. But in fact, it was 6-2 shooting guard Troy Bell, who did not make it past his rookie contract before being cut by the man who reached badly to draft him in Jerry West. Bell was affectionately nicknamed “Troy Airbell” by ACB Spanish league fans he horrified with the air-balls he jacked up playing for Real Madrid, and struggled this past season to run a D-League team. Bell measured a 41 inch vertical leap (which would rank 1st in this year’s combine), ran a 3.06 in the ¾ court sprint (also 1st), and bench pressed the 185 pound bar 17 times (fourth amongst guards). If Bell were eligible this year, he most likely again would be deemed the top athlete in this year’s draft too.
Who was (supposedly) the 2nd best athlete in that draft? Brandon Hunter, an eventual late 2nd round pick who was relegated to the 2nd division in Italy this year playing for Livorno. Dwyane Wade, possibly the best overall athlete in the NBA today, ranked 14th. Chris Bosh finished 51st. Chris Kaman 45th. In that same year, TJ Ford measured in as being slower in the various footspeed tests than Chris Kaman, Kirk Penney and Carmelo Anthony. Huh? Anyone that has ever seen him play would tell you that he is one of the fastest players in the NBA, if not the fastest.
In 2004, we found a similar story. Kirk Snyder came out as the top overall athlete, while players like Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng and Al Jefferson’s draft stock supposedly took a hit by measuring out as relatively poor athletes. That same Andre Iguodala who was robbed of the slam dunk championship a few months ago, only recorded a 34 inch vertical leap, one inch more than J.J. Redick last year. Rickey Paulding, Timmy Bowers and Luis Flores were all declared amongst the top 10 athletes in the draft. One averaged 13 points per game this past season in France, one came off the bench in the Israeli league, and the other finished just a notch ahead of Brandon Hunter’s team in Italy and was also relegated to the 2nd division.
The 2005 draft combine was equally as pointless. Monta Ellis ranked as the worst athlete of all the players measured, coming out slow, weak and with very little leaping ability. Once the NBA season started and the ball actually rolled out on the court, though, he magically transformed into a spectacular athlete who can get his shot at will and dunks anything and everything that is remotely close to the basket, despite only being 6-3. Eventual rookie of the year Chris Paul was declared only the 15th best athlete amongst the players tested, and was somehow deemed slower than Deron Williams, Sean May and Wayne Simien. The athletic tests also led you to believe that Andrew Bogut was some kind of stiff who would never be able to keep up with the speed of the NBA--that is, until the players actually started playing basketball and we found out that he is actually a fine athlete for a player his size. Julius Hodge is out of the league thanks to a bad attitude, awful shooting mechanics and some very average athletic ability, but don’t tell that to the people who tested him out as the 26th best athlete in that draft, with a ¾ court sprint that would rank him amongst the fastest players in 2007.
In 2006, we again found some head-scratching results that made us question the validity of the NBA draft combine, and even make us wonder why exactly it’s even held. At the top of that list was Marcus Williams, who was, according to the combine results, probably one of the most unathletic guards to ever be considered a first round pick. We’re talking about a player that played in the best conference in America and got into the lane and created offense for his team almost whenever he pleased against the top defensive guards the NCAA has to offer, and then continued to do so in the NBA playing for the New Jersey Nets this season. All it took was five minutes watching him on tape or in person to realize that, but the results of the combine would never tell you that. The top ten athletes in the draft last year were, in this order: David Noel, Ronnie Brewer, Dwyane Mitchell, Daniel Horton, Rodney Carney, Randy Foye, Taquan Dean, Brandon Bowman, Nik Caner-Medley and Louis Amundson.
What a 33 inch vertical leap looks like (AP)
This year’s combine has to take the cake, though. Kevin Durant, who wowed NBA scouts and basketball fans around the world all season long with an incredible skill level and extremely impressive agility for a player his size, measured out as essentially the worst athlete in the draft. Just a few days ago we sat alongside those same NBA scouts drooling over the way he soared above the rim dunking the ball and running the floor like a gazelle…but the tale of the tape tells us that that was all a mirage. If there was ever a case to be made for the waste of time known as the NBA combine, it’s right now.
The combine results are hardly the Holy Grail in the evaluation process as far as NBA decision makers are concerned from what we are told, but people who did not pay much attention to how players performed during the season seem to place a much larger emphasis on them then they probably should. As one NBA scout told us last year “it’s not really something we take into our war room and make decisions off of. It’s more something to glance at and use as another small part of the complicated puzzle that ends up telling you what we’d hope is the entire picture.”
The main point we are trying to hammer across here is that there are major concerns about whether or not the tests that are being done on the players at the pre-draft camp are actually transferable to a real basketball setting. The overwhelming amount of possessions in the NBA are played in a half-court set, which means that there really isn’t any valid measurement tool that is being utilized right now to properly evaluate how well a player will actually be able to create a scoring opportunity for himself or his teammate, how well he’ll be able to react defensively on the perimeter or whether or not a player will go out of his area to track down a rebound.
Measuring how fast a player gets from the free throw three quarters down the court to the basket is a tool that is very much non-transferable to an actual game setting. Evaluating lane agility speed only tells a small part of how well players are able to actually stay in front of someone on the perimeter. Assessing a player’s height, standing reach or vertical leap tells very little about how likely a player is to box out his man, anticipate where the ball will come off the rim and have the desire and tenacity to go get it.
There is more to slashing to the basket than just having an incredibly explosive first step to help a player get by his man. Players like Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul use a wide variety of hesitation moves and quick changes of direction to first get their man off balance and then blow them once they are on their heels. Knowing how and when to slow down and then speed up, change gears and use crafty ball-handling skills simultaneously is what will eventually decide whether or not a player will be successful in creating space to operate.
Once they get to the basket, having a 40+ inch vertical leap isn’t enough to actually put the ball in the hoop either. They’ll need to rely on their instincts, feel, touch, and body control to compliment their leaping ability and either get to the free throw line or finish the play.
Things like timing and instincts are what make the great athletes truly great basketball players, which is why indicating that one player is somehow superior because he has better pure physical attributes seems like a complete waste of time and money.
In the much more scripted and mechanical NFL, this may be a valid way to draw some noteworthy conclusions, but the results of the past few combines show that this isn’t the case are far as basketball goes. Some players are naturally incredible athletes, but only a handful of them actually know how to take fully advantage of their athleticism and translate it out on the court. Too many of them are spending their valuable time and resources on testing out well in the outdated evaluations that the NBA looks at during the combine, rather than working on actually becoming better basketball players in their rookie season.
The fact that the NBA does not to conduct a scientifically valid psychological test at the pre-draft camp to evaluate some key “intangibles” is a bit surprising. Being able to bench press a 185 pound bar 25 times is not going to make the difference in whether or not a player is able to come down with a rebound or come up with a loose ball, but hustle, timing, fundamentals, instincts, footwork, reflexes, tenacity and anticipation skills are. Having a tool at the NBA’s disposal to measure things like work ethic, motivation, leadership skills, coachability, decision making on and off the court, ability to fit in with a team structure, pressure situations and temptation, and other quote unquote “intangibles” would be a much more effective way to properly evaluate a player’s likelihood to succeed in the NBA. If the league is unable to put the top players in a competitive situation where their true basketball ability can really come out, their time and money might be better spent looking at other aspects of a player’s overall makeup to complete the entire picture.
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2096
It’s that time once again, our favorite time of the year of course; a few weeks before the draft when everything logical in regards to analyzing basketball gets flushed down the toilet. Instead we focus on superficial things that have proven again and again to have very little correlation with actual success in the NBA.
This player is superior to that player because his standing reach is two inches longer. That guy is a better prospect because he bench pressed 185 pounds 19 times instead of the 8 someone else did. Let’s just forget irrelevant things like how many points and rebounds a player averaged, what kind of drive he has to improve or how many games he helped his team win, because those obviously have no bearing on a player’s success.
Who was the top athlete in the 2003 draft? Thinking logically about that draft, you’d probably assume it was a toss up between Dwyane Wade and Lebron James. But in fact, it was 6-2 shooting guard Troy Bell, who did not make it past his rookie contract before being cut by the man who reached badly to draft him in Jerry West. Bell was affectionately nicknamed “Troy Airbell” by ACB Spanish league fans he horrified with the air-balls he jacked up playing for Real Madrid, and struggled this past season to run a D-League team. Bell measured a 41 inch vertical leap (which would rank 1st in this year’s combine), ran a 3.06 in the ¾ court sprint (also 1st), and bench pressed the 185 pound bar 17 times (fourth amongst guards). If Bell were eligible this year, he most likely again would be deemed the top athlete in this year’s draft too.
Who was (supposedly) the 2nd best athlete in that draft? Brandon Hunter, an eventual late 2nd round pick who was relegated to the 2nd division in Italy this year playing for Livorno. Dwyane Wade, possibly the best overall athlete in the NBA today, ranked 14th. Chris Bosh finished 51st. Chris Kaman 45th. In that same year, TJ Ford measured in as being slower in the various footspeed tests than Chris Kaman, Kirk Penney and Carmelo Anthony. Huh? Anyone that has ever seen him play would tell you that he is one of the fastest players in the NBA, if not the fastest.
In 2004, we found a similar story. Kirk Snyder came out as the top overall athlete, while players like Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng and Al Jefferson’s draft stock supposedly took a hit by measuring out as relatively poor athletes. That same Andre Iguodala who was robbed of the slam dunk championship a few months ago, only recorded a 34 inch vertical leap, one inch more than J.J. Redick last year. Rickey Paulding, Timmy Bowers and Luis Flores were all declared amongst the top 10 athletes in the draft. One averaged 13 points per game this past season in France, one came off the bench in the Israeli league, and the other finished just a notch ahead of Brandon Hunter’s team in Italy and was also relegated to the 2nd division.
The 2005 draft combine was equally as pointless. Monta Ellis ranked as the worst athlete of all the players measured, coming out slow, weak and with very little leaping ability. Once the NBA season started and the ball actually rolled out on the court, though, he magically transformed into a spectacular athlete who can get his shot at will and dunks anything and everything that is remotely close to the basket, despite only being 6-3. Eventual rookie of the year Chris Paul was declared only the 15th best athlete amongst the players tested, and was somehow deemed slower than Deron Williams, Sean May and Wayne Simien. The athletic tests also led you to believe that Andrew Bogut was some kind of stiff who would never be able to keep up with the speed of the NBA--that is, until the players actually started playing basketball and we found out that he is actually a fine athlete for a player his size. Julius Hodge is out of the league thanks to a bad attitude, awful shooting mechanics and some very average athletic ability, but don’t tell that to the people who tested him out as the 26th best athlete in that draft, with a ¾ court sprint that would rank him amongst the fastest players in 2007.
In 2006, we again found some head-scratching results that made us question the validity of the NBA draft combine, and even make us wonder why exactly it’s even held. At the top of that list was Marcus Williams, who was, according to the combine results, probably one of the most unathletic guards to ever be considered a first round pick. We’re talking about a player that played in the best conference in America and got into the lane and created offense for his team almost whenever he pleased against the top defensive guards the NCAA has to offer, and then continued to do so in the NBA playing for the New Jersey Nets this season. All it took was five minutes watching him on tape or in person to realize that, but the results of the combine would never tell you that. The top ten athletes in the draft last year were, in this order: David Noel, Ronnie Brewer, Dwyane Mitchell, Daniel Horton, Rodney Carney, Randy Foye, Taquan Dean, Brandon Bowman, Nik Caner-Medley and Louis Amundson.
What a 33 inch vertical leap looks like (AP)
This year’s combine has to take the cake, though. Kevin Durant, who wowed NBA scouts and basketball fans around the world all season long with an incredible skill level and extremely impressive agility for a player his size, measured out as essentially the worst athlete in the draft. Just a few days ago we sat alongside those same NBA scouts drooling over the way he soared above the rim dunking the ball and running the floor like a gazelle…but the tale of the tape tells us that that was all a mirage. If there was ever a case to be made for the waste of time known as the NBA combine, it’s right now.
The combine results are hardly the Holy Grail in the evaluation process as far as NBA decision makers are concerned from what we are told, but people who did not pay much attention to how players performed during the season seem to place a much larger emphasis on them then they probably should. As one NBA scout told us last year “it’s not really something we take into our war room and make decisions off of. It’s more something to glance at and use as another small part of the complicated puzzle that ends up telling you what we’d hope is the entire picture.”
The main point we are trying to hammer across here is that there are major concerns about whether or not the tests that are being done on the players at the pre-draft camp are actually transferable to a real basketball setting. The overwhelming amount of possessions in the NBA are played in a half-court set, which means that there really isn’t any valid measurement tool that is being utilized right now to properly evaluate how well a player will actually be able to create a scoring opportunity for himself or his teammate, how well he’ll be able to react defensively on the perimeter or whether or not a player will go out of his area to track down a rebound.
Measuring how fast a player gets from the free throw three quarters down the court to the basket is a tool that is very much non-transferable to an actual game setting. Evaluating lane agility speed only tells a small part of how well players are able to actually stay in front of someone on the perimeter. Assessing a player’s height, standing reach or vertical leap tells very little about how likely a player is to box out his man, anticipate where the ball will come off the rim and have the desire and tenacity to go get it.
There is more to slashing to the basket than just having an incredibly explosive first step to help a player get by his man. Players like Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul use a wide variety of hesitation moves and quick changes of direction to first get their man off balance and then blow them once they are on their heels. Knowing how and when to slow down and then speed up, change gears and use crafty ball-handling skills simultaneously is what will eventually decide whether or not a player will be successful in creating space to operate.
Once they get to the basket, having a 40+ inch vertical leap isn’t enough to actually put the ball in the hoop either. They’ll need to rely on their instincts, feel, touch, and body control to compliment their leaping ability and either get to the free throw line or finish the play.
Things like timing and instincts are what make the great athletes truly great basketball players, which is why indicating that one player is somehow superior because he has better pure physical attributes seems like a complete waste of time and money.
In the much more scripted and mechanical NFL, this may be a valid way to draw some noteworthy conclusions, but the results of the past few combines show that this isn’t the case are far as basketball goes. Some players are naturally incredible athletes, but only a handful of them actually know how to take fully advantage of their athleticism and translate it out on the court. Too many of them are spending their valuable time and resources on testing out well in the outdated evaluations that the NBA looks at during the combine, rather than working on actually becoming better basketball players in their rookie season.
The fact that the NBA does not to conduct a scientifically valid psychological test at the pre-draft camp to evaluate some key “intangibles” is a bit surprising. Being able to bench press a 185 pound bar 25 times is not going to make the difference in whether or not a player is able to come down with a rebound or come up with a loose ball, but hustle, timing, fundamentals, instincts, footwork, reflexes, tenacity and anticipation skills are. Having a tool at the NBA’s disposal to measure things like work ethic, motivation, leadership skills, coachability, decision making on and off the court, ability to fit in with a team structure, pressure situations and temptation, and other quote unquote “intangibles” would be a much more effective way to properly evaluate a player’s likelihood to succeed in the NBA. If the league is unable to put the top players in a competitive situation where their true basketball ability can really come out, their time and money might be better spent looking at other aspects of a player’s overall makeup to complete the entire picture.
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2096
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
So is that guy saying that Durant won't go #2 based his poor measurables? Or that Oden shouldn't go #1? I really can't tell.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
I don't think hes saying either....just saying that those numbers are relatively meaningless.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
and some private workout notes:
There were some rumors early on that there will be workouts conducted with the top prospects in the draft on the last day of the camp, and that turned out to be true after the first game of the morning. Three to four of the “physical only” players were added to each of the six pre-draft camp teams, and they ran a light 30 minute or so workout doing things like the 3-man weave, the “long legs” outlet pass drill, and the pitch and fill. Other basic fundamental moves were also conducted, such as using a simulated screen to get to the basket off two dribbles, pull-up jumpers and floaters (for guards), and post moves (jump-hooks, drop-steps, turnaround jumpers, etc) for the big men. Opinions here were firmly split as to whether these workouts mean very little, or absolutely nothing at all. No one we talked to thought there was really anything major to be taken away from this at all, but the better teams in the league were at least pleased to be able to get a chance to see the top picks in the draft up close and in person, to evaluate the way they move, the technique they show in the drills, and their body language.
The first three players to work out were Acie Law, Brandan Wright and Spencer Hawes. Law seemed to blend in to a certain extent with the other pre-draft camp guards he was working out with, showing a flat-footed jump-shot that didn’t always fall and fairly limited intensity throughout.
On the other side of the court Spencer Hawes seemed to be taking things quite seriously, looking absolutely phenomenal in the post drills with his gorgeous jump-hook shot and incredibly soft touch off the glass. He’s clearly one of the most fundamentally sound players in the draft. He told us he’d help himself here a few weeks ago when we interviewed him, and if this is any indication of how the drills portions of his NBA private workouts are going to go, he is absolutely right.
Brandan Wright
Next to him, Brandan Wright did not do much to quell most of the fears about him, even if there was only so much you could take away from this setting. He doesn’t appear to have added any weight to his frame since the season ended, and his jump-shot and ball-handling skills were virtually non-existent as we’ve been mentioning all season long. The fact that he was working out in the 3rd gear didn’t really help him out. On the positive side, he did look pretty effortless getting off his feet and ran the floor extremely well. In the post, he also showed great fundamentals, with a beautiful hook-shot and great touch spinning to either shoulder. His arms are freakishly long.
The next workout featured Josh McRoberts, Al Horford and Mike Conley Jr. McRoberts looked pretty nervous and therefore didn’t shoot the ball all that well, at least not anywhere near the way he did when we saw him a few weeks back working out in Santa Monica. Besides that, though, he seems to be in great shape and looked even more athletic than Al Horford getting up and down the floor, executing his moves in the post, and getting off the floor to finish. He’s obviously an extremely smooth and fluid player with solid fundamentals and technique, even if he missed some easy shots that he normally would convert.
Al Horford
Al Horford looked a little stiffer than McRoberts in the drills, but was night and day compared with the Duke sophomore off the court. He was extremely relaxed, smiling constantly and playing around with his new teammates (for example Jared Jordan). He’s in the same incredible shape he’s always been in, and did a very nice job shooting the ball with his feet set and executing his post-moves with his back to the basket.
Mike Conley shot the ball very poorly throughout the workout, not looking to have any range at all outside of 16 feet. Expanding his shot to the NBA 3-point line is going to take him quite a bit of time and effort. In terms of his demeanor, he looked very serious and business like, executing the drills crisply and picking up on everything he was told to do almost instantly, as the first player in line. His floater looked terrific and did his quickness getting up and down the floor.
Julian Wright, Rodney Stuckey and Al Thornton were next, and we quickly began to lose interest as the intensity level seemed to level off. Wright seemed to take things very seriously, but he was paired with the big men once they were split up, meaning he was just asked to do things like shoot jump-hooks and turnaround jumpers. Needless to say, there isn’t a lot of value in that. Al Thornton was part of the perimeter players’ drills, but didn’t seem like he wanted to be there at all. He looked lackadaisical in his effort and pretty average in the amount of shots he hit. Stuckey looked a bit better, but not by much.
We skipped the Nick Young and Jason Smith workout for the 2nd half of what turned out to be a terrific ending to the pre-draft camp games between teams 4 and 5, but were told by some scouts that both looked pretty good. Nick Young apparently shot the ball extremely well.
Kevin Durant
Kevin Durant was marched out next with Thaddeus Young. Durant looks as skinny as ever, but he drew were some gasps once the dunking drills kicked off. It’s pretty amazing to see how high above the rim his arms get when he’s elevating for dunks. For some reason he was also given the big man workout drills, so we didn’t get to see any real shooting except on occasion (which he was just so-so at). While he wasn’t screwing around the way some other players here were, it didn’t seem like he really wanted to be here either.
Thaddeus Young seemed to be taking thing a lot more seriously on the other hand, punishing the rim every time he dunked it and showing off his sculpted Corey Maggette esqe-physique. Him shooting jump-hook shots for the remainder of the workout didn’t tell us much more than we already knew.
Greg Oden
Greg Oden, Corey Brewer and Joakim Noah were the last ones to work out. Oden impressed big time with the way he ran the floor and got off the ground dunking the ball, even if he seemed to be sleepwalking as well at times. His shooting and ball-handling looked good for a player his size. At the end of the workout, he insisted on not leaving until he managed to knock down an NBA three. On his third attempt, he finally got one to drop, and promptly turned around towards the crowd with his arms in the air like a prize fighter to celebrate his accomplishment with a big grin.
Joakim Noah ran the floor hard, handled the ball well, shot the ball decently, and seemed to put in a solid effort. Corey Brewer shot the ball better than you might have expected, even though he’s clearly more of a five on five player than someone who is going to shine in this type of setting.
There were some rumors early on that there will be workouts conducted with the top prospects in the draft on the last day of the camp, and that turned out to be true after the first game of the morning. Three to four of the “physical only” players were added to each of the six pre-draft camp teams, and they ran a light 30 minute or so workout doing things like the 3-man weave, the “long legs” outlet pass drill, and the pitch and fill. Other basic fundamental moves were also conducted, such as using a simulated screen to get to the basket off two dribbles, pull-up jumpers and floaters (for guards), and post moves (jump-hooks, drop-steps, turnaround jumpers, etc) for the big men. Opinions here were firmly split as to whether these workouts mean very little, or absolutely nothing at all. No one we talked to thought there was really anything major to be taken away from this at all, but the better teams in the league were at least pleased to be able to get a chance to see the top picks in the draft up close and in person, to evaluate the way they move, the technique they show in the drills, and their body language.
The first three players to work out were Acie Law, Brandan Wright and Spencer Hawes. Law seemed to blend in to a certain extent with the other pre-draft camp guards he was working out with, showing a flat-footed jump-shot that didn’t always fall and fairly limited intensity throughout.
On the other side of the court Spencer Hawes seemed to be taking things quite seriously, looking absolutely phenomenal in the post drills with his gorgeous jump-hook shot and incredibly soft touch off the glass. He’s clearly one of the most fundamentally sound players in the draft. He told us he’d help himself here a few weeks ago when we interviewed him, and if this is any indication of how the drills portions of his NBA private workouts are going to go, he is absolutely right.
Brandan Wright
Next to him, Brandan Wright did not do much to quell most of the fears about him, even if there was only so much you could take away from this setting. He doesn’t appear to have added any weight to his frame since the season ended, and his jump-shot and ball-handling skills were virtually non-existent as we’ve been mentioning all season long. The fact that he was working out in the 3rd gear didn’t really help him out. On the positive side, he did look pretty effortless getting off his feet and ran the floor extremely well. In the post, he also showed great fundamentals, with a beautiful hook-shot and great touch spinning to either shoulder. His arms are freakishly long.
The next workout featured Josh McRoberts, Al Horford and Mike Conley Jr. McRoberts looked pretty nervous and therefore didn’t shoot the ball all that well, at least not anywhere near the way he did when we saw him a few weeks back working out in Santa Monica. Besides that, though, he seems to be in great shape and looked even more athletic than Al Horford getting up and down the floor, executing his moves in the post, and getting off the floor to finish. He’s obviously an extremely smooth and fluid player with solid fundamentals and technique, even if he missed some easy shots that he normally would convert.
Al Horford
Al Horford looked a little stiffer than McRoberts in the drills, but was night and day compared with the Duke sophomore off the court. He was extremely relaxed, smiling constantly and playing around with his new teammates (for example Jared Jordan). He’s in the same incredible shape he’s always been in, and did a very nice job shooting the ball with his feet set and executing his post-moves with his back to the basket.
Mike Conley shot the ball very poorly throughout the workout, not looking to have any range at all outside of 16 feet. Expanding his shot to the NBA 3-point line is going to take him quite a bit of time and effort. In terms of his demeanor, he looked very serious and business like, executing the drills crisply and picking up on everything he was told to do almost instantly, as the first player in line. His floater looked terrific and did his quickness getting up and down the floor.
Julian Wright, Rodney Stuckey and Al Thornton were next, and we quickly began to lose interest as the intensity level seemed to level off. Wright seemed to take things very seriously, but he was paired with the big men once they were split up, meaning he was just asked to do things like shoot jump-hooks and turnaround jumpers. Needless to say, there isn’t a lot of value in that. Al Thornton was part of the perimeter players’ drills, but didn’t seem like he wanted to be there at all. He looked lackadaisical in his effort and pretty average in the amount of shots he hit. Stuckey looked a bit better, but not by much.
We skipped the Nick Young and Jason Smith workout for the 2nd half of what turned out to be a terrific ending to the pre-draft camp games between teams 4 and 5, but were told by some scouts that both looked pretty good. Nick Young apparently shot the ball extremely well.
Kevin Durant
Kevin Durant was marched out next with Thaddeus Young. Durant looks as skinny as ever, but he drew were some gasps once the dunking drills kicked off. It’s pretty amazing to see how high above the rim his arms get when he’s elevating for dunks. For some reason he was also given the big man workout drills, so we didn’t get to see any real shooting except on occasion (which he was just so-so at). While he wasn’t screwing around the way some other players here were, it didn’t seem like he really wanted to be here either.
Thaddeus Young seemed to be taking thing a lot more seriously on the other hand, punishing the rim every time he dunked it and showing off his sculpted Corey Maggette esqe-physique. Him shooting jump-hook shots for the remainder of the workout didn’t tell us much more than we already knew.
Greg Oden
Greg Oden, Corey Brewer and Joakim Noah were the last ones to work out. Oden impressed big time with the way he ran the floor and got off the ground dunking the ball, even if he seemed to be sleepwalking as well at times. His shooting and ball-handling looked good for a player his size. At the end of the workout, he insisted on not leaving until he managed to knock down an NBA three. On his third attempt, he finally got one to drop, and promptly turned around towards the crowd with his arms in the air like a prize fighter to celebrate his accomplishment with a big grin.
Joakim Noah ran the floor hard, handled the ball well, shot the ball decently, and seemed to put in a solid effort. Corey Brewer shot the ball better than you might have expected, even though he’s clearly more of a five on five player than someone who is going to shine in this type of setting.
Capella
Footballguy
Kraft...
Footballguy
espn.com had something on the "combine" workouts, suposedly they do a bench press and Horford put up the most reps 185 20 times, I think the next closest was Jeff Green with 17. Oden and Durant didn't bench I guess.Spencer Hawes 9 reps, this comment was also made in the article: "Brewer wasn't the only guy to take a hit in the testing. As we mentioned, Durant's tests weren't impressive. Neither were Spencer Hawes' (no big surprise there)"
OUCH!
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Durant benched. He couldn't bench 185 even once.
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PRAISE THE LORD!Sonics destined for a championship!!!
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
There will definitely be some other really, really good players emerge from this class, but there is 1 franchise player lock (Oden) and that's it, IMO.
from Sporting News:
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
You are high. But thanks for the reverse jinx.
_4_
Footballguy
and some private workout notes:
Greg Oden
Greg Oden, Corey Brewer and Joakim Noah were the last ones to work out. Oden impressed big time with the way he ran the floor (it's a half court game for the most part) and got off the ground dunking the ball (12 inch range), even if he seemed to be sleepwalking as well at times Boy, this comes as a SHOCK!
Joakim Noah ran the floor hard, handled the ball well, shot the ball decently, and seemed to put in a solid effort. Corey Brewer shot the ball better than you might have expected, even though he’s clearly more of a five on five player than someone who is going to shine in this type of setting.
Your Mother
Footballguy
Hi Sores-
Can we get an idea from you what Greg Oden's career is going to look like? How many All-Star appearances, All-D teams, ROY, ppg/rpg/bpg averages? TIA.
Can we get an idea from you what Greg Oden's career is going to look like? How many All-Star appearances, All-D teams, ROY, ppg/rpg/bpg averages? TIA.
packersfan
Footballguy
Looks like Walton and I agree about the comparison of Oden to Ewing.
Not sure if that's a good thing or not.
Not sure if that's a good thing or not.
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RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
That's really nice of Barnes and all but Durant only being able to bench 185 (not 300 Rick) once is pretty embarrasing. You take a pounding in the NBA - builds like Lebron hold up and produce better.RedmondLonghorn said:
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
He needs to get stronger over time and he will. He is the youngest player in the draft and has incredibly long arms and a thin build, not exactly ideal proportions for the bench press.Durant is strong enough to launch 25 footers effortlessly and to average double digit rebounds in a pretty decent conference. He is not a strongman, but he doesn't play soft. The real weaklings must be the teams that allowed him stat lines like 37 points and 23 rebounds.Artificial combine tests are of dubious value for evaluating NFL players. For NBA players, they are a total joke.Kevin Durant was universally voted the best player in college basketball last year, as a true freshman, based on his production actually playing basketball. I'll take that data as slightly more important than his "workout numbers", thanks.In 2003, Troy Bell and Brandon Hunter were deemed the best athletes at the combine. Dwyane Wade was 14th and Chris Bosh was 51st. TJ Ford not only was slower than Kirk Heinrich in the speed drills, but also pretty much everyone else as well. He was even slower than Chris Kaman. Andre Iguodala's vertical was only 1 inch higher than JJ Redick's. Monta Ellis was the "worst" athlete in the 2005 combine. Chris Paul was slower in the speed drills than Sean May and Wayne Simien that same year. Last year Rudy Gay, Tyrus Thomas, and LaMarcus Aldridge were not among the top 10 athletes at the combine. Daniel Horton was though, at number 4 no less.
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
Yes, we've visited these previous examples already. but still 78th out of 80 and the only one unable to bench 185 once is pretty embarrassing. Especially for a top 2 pick.
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
If you were the Sonics' GM would you pick somebody else?
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
Nope, it's just abundantly clear he needs to bulk up. This isn't the Big 12 anymore.
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
Glad to hear that you haven't taken leave of your senses. He definitely needs to get stronger, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he needs to "bulk up".
if Seattle signs that Phoenix assistant as their coach, could they run a Suns-style offense with Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, and Rashard Lewis as their 3 top players? could Lewis or Durant play the Marion role at the 4 spot?
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There is still an opening.
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Iavoroni has already signed with Memphis.We (the Sonics, as I am part of the organization officially) will most likely have Presti as GM, and follow that by signing Carlesimo. I am holding out hope for Carlisle though.
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oh. my bad.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i think serving under Pop will prove to be a good thing for PJ. he needed some direction under a guy like Pop, who has been both GM and coach for the Spurs. PJ's been with him several years now and likely matured some.
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
I think it is possible, but I doubt that it plays out that way. I think either Lewis or Allen will be gone, more likely Lewis.As you describe it, the top five would look like this
G - Luke RidnourSG - Ray AllenSF - Rashard LewisPF - Kevin DurantC - Chris Wilcox or Nick CollisonThis would be a lot of fun on the offensive end of the court, but I would think they would be a disaster on defensive end and would have a lot of trouble rebounding.
Assani Fisher
Footballguy
Speaking of Javaris Crittenton,, it's interesting to note that he's scheduled to work out with the Portland Trailblazers the day before the draft, June 27th. He obviously won't be working out for the #1 pick, and can't be planning on Portland's next pick at #37 either. So what does that mean? Deductive reasoning tells us that his people have almost certainly been convinced that there is a very good chance that the Trailblazers will have a draft pick in his range, AND will have a need for another point guard besides the two very good ones they already have in Jarrett Jack and Sergio Rodríguez. It goes without saying that the day before the draft is a VERY valuable spot on the calendar of a player like Crittenton.
A couple of quick calls made indicate that Crittenton isn't the only one who might feel that way. Two agents with draft prospects in the 5-15 draft range conveyed to DraftExpress that they feel that Portland is sending out messages implying that they may already have a late lottery pick locked up. The rumor emerging is that Portland can secure the #11 pick belonging to Atlanta, in return for Jarrett Jack if they so desire.
Portland will also (tentatively) be hosting Nick Young and Al Thornton two days before the draft, on the 26th. The Young and Crittenton workout dates were released by a Portland beat writer, Jason Quick.
A couple of quick calls made indicate that Crittenton isn't the only one who might feel that way. Two agents with draft prospects in the 5-15 draft range conveyed to DraftExpress that they feel that Portland is sending out messages implying that they may already have a late lottery pick locked up. The rumor emerging is that Portland can secure the #11 pick belonging to Atlanta, in return for Jarrett Jack if they so desire.
Portland will also (tentatively) be hosting Nick Young and Al Thornton two days before the draft, on the 26th. The Young and Crittenton workout dates were released by a Portland beat writer, Jason Quick.
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
I thought Lewis already opted out?I think it is possible, but I doubt that it plays out that way. I think either Lewis or Allen will be gone, more likely Lewis.As you describe it, the top five would look like this
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
Interesting stuff. Is Jack for the 11th pick a fair deal in your eyes? Thornton is on my wish list for the Sixers at 12.
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