2015 Stanley Cup Playoffs: All hail the Blackhawks, mudbutt (1 Viewer)

[Hawks64]

Hope they can find some way to keep Vermette. Going to be an interesting offseason.

Now I need to let my liver take a break for awhile. At least until Saturday.

there's probably little chance they can. he's going to get paid by someone. he won his Cup so not much reason to take a huge discount to be a 3rd line player here when he can have a bigger role somewhere else.they need to move Sharp, and hopefully Bickell too.

doubt they can move Bickell and between Sharp and Oduya one has to be moved/let walk. they are pinched pretty good and Saad is going to command a nice deal so it wouldn't be surprising to see him get poached.

tough to say never when we've seen contracts like Gomez, Clarkson, and Horton get dealt.Pretty sure Oduya is gone.

Their top-11 players under contract are going to count $61.8MM against the cap next year.

Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Bickell, Versteeg, and Shaw at F.

Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarsson at D

Crawford in goal.

Sharp ($5.9MM) and Bickell ($4.0MM) and Versteeg ($2.2MM) would be the best candidates to get rid of. They may have to consider trading Seabrook too since he's going to be a UFA next year.

I'd heard some rumors at the end of the regular season and early in the playoffs about Crawford being traded. Does anybody think he gets dealt now that he's won a second Stanley Cup with the Hawks? I think the common opinion of him is similar to Chris Osgood. Decent goalie, but benefits from playing behind a great D.Crawford's got a $6 mill cap hit. Any chance they deal him and roll with Darling as the starter next season?

It might be a last resort if they can't move Sharp, Bickell and various other pieces to clear space. I have a very hard time believing that Saad will walk and that Seabrook will be allowed to walk.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

From 1997 to 2002 Detroit won 3 Cups with a 61-29 playoff record (12-2 in finals)

From 2010 to 2015 Chicago won 3 cups with a 63-36 playoff record (12-7 in finals)

Probably can draw quite a few comparisons between the two teams, but these numbers were close enough for me to be interested in similarities.

The single most impressive thing about what the Hawks have done is doing it under a hard salary cap IMO.

It absolutely is but they also didn't have to play any team the ilk of the Dallas Stars of that time, or the beast we know as the Sakic/Forsberg/Roy Colorado Avalanche.

When you suck for a decade and pile up all those draft picks, you should have a good run. Well...unless you are the present day Oilers.

 

[RUSF18]

From 1997 to 2002 Detroit won 3 Cups with a 61-29 playoff record (12-2 in finals)

From 2010 to 2015 Chicago won 3 cups with a 63-36 playoff record (12-7 in finals)

Probably can draw quite a few comparisons between the two teams, but these numbers were close enough for me to be interested in similarities.

The single most impressive thing about what the Hawks have done is doing it under a hard salary cap IMO.

It absolutely is but they also didn't have to play any team the ilk of the Dallas Stars of that time, or the beast we know as the Sakic/Forsberg/Roy Colorado Avalanche. When you suck for a decade and pile up all those draft picks, you should have a good run. Well...unless you are the present day Oilers.

The Rangers have had a good run with two conference finals and one SCF appearance in four years. What Chicago has done is way beyond a good run.

 

[tri-man 47]

From 1997 to 2002 Detroit won 3 Cups with a 61-29 playoff record (12-2 in finals)

From 2010 to 2015 Chicago won 3 cups with a 63-36 playoff record (12-7 in finals)

Probably can draw quite a few comparisons between the two teams, but these numbers were close enough for me to be interested in similarities.

The single most impressive thing about what the Hawks have done is doing it under a hard salary cap IMO.

It absolutely is but they also didn't have to play any team the ilk of the Dallas Stars of that time, or the beast we know as the Sakic/Forsberg/Roy Colorado Avalanche.

When you suck for a decade and pile up all those draft picks, you should have a good run. Well...unless you are the present day Oilers.

Doctor, please, you're scaring the children.

 

[Christo]

33-0-0 when leading after 2 periods.

 

[HughHoney]

Sharp and Bickell should be easy to move if the Hawks are willing to get fleeced, correct?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

From 1997 to 2002 Detroit won 3 Cups with a 61-29 playoff record (12-2 in finals)

From 2010 to 2015 Chicago won 3 cups with a 63-36 playoff record (12-7 in finals)

Probably can draw quite a few comparisons between the two teams, but these numbers were close enough for me to be interested in similarities.

The single most impressive thing about what the Hawks have done is doing it under a hard salary cap IMO.

It absolutely is but they also didn't have to play any team the ilk of the Dallas Stars of that time, or the beast we know as the Sakic/Forsberg/Roy Colorado Avalanche. When you suck for a decade and pile up all those draft picks, you should have a good run. Well...unless you are the present day Oilers.

The Rangers have had a good run with two conference finals and one SCF appearance in four years. What Chicago has done is way beyond a good run.

I was talking about the Wings, too.

Also the Rangers should start doing what the Caps do and hang WNBA attendance banners.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Yzerman Toews

Federov Kane

Shanny Hossa

Kozlov Sharp

Larionov Saad

Lidstrom Keith

Konstantinov Seabrook

Murphy Oduya

Homer Shaw

McCarty Bickell

Maltby Frolik

D Brown Handzus

Draper Ladd

LaPointe Bolland

Vernon/Osgood Crawford/Niemi

Very similar. Wings all home grown, cast offs, one big trade in Shannahan where they gave up their third best player (Primeau), and some fantastic role players vs home grown, hired gun in Hossa, cast offs, good trades, etc. The 2002 Red Wings team was a lot of hired guns, but the main core was still there, but I leave those names off this list for effect.

Pick a side on that list, but I think the teams compare quite well. Detroit was deeper (by construction not by throwing money at holes in 97 and 98), Chicago probably with more top-end talent.

Wings also lost one of the best defensive defenceman of the time in Konstantinov, which probably cost them in 2000 for sure. Colorado had become more physical by then and the Wings had some aging defencemen that weren't able to match up.

 

[rockaction]

Yzerman Toews

Federov Kane

Shanny Hossa

Kozlov Sharp

Larionov Saad

Lidstrom Keith

Konstantinov Seabrook

Murphy Oduya

Homer Shaw

McCarty Bickell

Maltby Frolik

D Brown Handzus

Draper Ladd

LaPointe Bolland

Vernon/Osgood Crawford/Niemi

Very similar. Wings all home grown, cast offs, one big trade in Shannahan where they gave up their third best player (Primeau), and some fantastic role players vs home grown, hired gun in Hossa, cast offs, good trades, etc. The 2002 Red Wings team was a lot of hired guns, but the main core was still there, but I leave those names off this list for effect.

Pick a side on that list, but I think the teams compare quite well. Detroit was deeper (by construction not by throwing money at holes in 97 and 98), Chicago probably with more top-end talent.

Wings also lost one of the best defensive defenceman of the time in Konstantinov, which probably cost them in 2000 for sure. Colorado had become more physical by then and the Wings had some aging defencemen that weren't able to match up.

You all got a bargain on that one. Shanahan was twice the player Primeau was. He wanted and asked out of Hartford and got it. We dumped Pronger for Shanny because of his early-career drinking and run-ins with the CT police and wound up with Primeau. Not a great progression. Keith Primeau was a good player, but nowhere near the quality of those two guys.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Yzerman Toews

Federov Kane

Shanny Hossa

Kozlov Sharp

Larionov Saad

Lidstrom Keith

Konstantinov Seabrook

Murphy Oduya

Homer Shaw

McCarty Bickell

Maltby Frolik

D Brown Handzus

Draper Ladd

LaPointe Bolland

Vernon/Osgood Crawford/Niemi

Very similar. Wings all home grown, cast offs, one big trade in Shannahan where they gave up their third best player (Primeau), and some fantastic role players vs home grown, hired gun in Hossa, cast offs, good trades, etc. The 2002 Red Wings team was a lot of hired guns, but the main core was still there, but I leave those names off this list for effect.

Pick a side on that list, but I think the teams compare quite well. Detroit was deeper (by construction not by throwing money at holes in 97 and 98), Chicago probably with more top-end talent.

Wings also lost one of the best defensive defenceman of the time in Konstantinov, which probably cost them in 2000 for sure. Colorado had become more physical by then and the Wings had some aging defencemen that weren't able to match up.

You all got a bargain on that one. Shanahan was twice the player Primeau was. He wanted and asked out of Hartford and got it. We dumped Pronger for Shanny because of his early-career drinking and run-ins with the CT police and wound up with Primeau. Not a great progression. Keith Primeau was a good player, but nowhere near the quality of those two guys.

Wings gave up paul coffey too. Lol

 

[tri-man 47]

Are we going to find out who Patrick Sharp ####ed along with all the injuries that get revealed tomorrow?

I've mentioned that a family friend is one of the Ice Crew. Her mom was talking to my wife at work yesterday and commenting on what a "womanizer" Sharp is, which was obviously an observation she picked up from her daughter.

An article in the Tribune this a.m. was talking about the team chemistry and how so many of the guys that were single in 2010 are now married with young families. I have to wonder if, in that environment, Sharp might have worn out his welcome (on top of the salary cap issue) ...despite having a young daughter of his own.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Are we going to find out who Patrick Sharp ####ed along with all the injuries that get revealed tomorrow?

I've mentioned that a family friend is one of the Ice Crew. Her mom was talking to my wife at work yesterday and commenting on what a "womanizer" Sharp is, which was obviously an observation she picked up from her daughter.

An article in the Tribune this a.m. was talking about the team chemistry and how so many of the guys that were single in 2010 are now married with young families. I have to wonder if, in that environment, Sharp might have worn out his welcome (on top of the salary cap issue) ...despite having a young daughter of his own.

http://sportsmockery.com/2015/02/did-patrick-sharp-have-sex-with-teammates-wife/

 

[Statcruncher]

Hope they can find some way to keep Vermette. Going to be an interesting offseason.

Now I need to let my liver take a break for awhile. At least until Saturday.

there's probably little chance they can. he's going to get paid by someone. he won his Cup so not much reason to take a huge discount to be a 3rd line player here when he can have a bigger role somewhere else.they need to move Sharp, and hopefully Bickell too.

doubt they can move Bickell and between Sharp and Oduya one has to be moved/let walk. they are pinched pretty good and Saad is going to command a nice deal so it wouldn't be surprising to see him get poached.

tough to say never when we've seen contracts like Gomez, Clarkson, and Horton get dealt.Pretty sure Oduya is gone.

Their top-11 players under contract are going to count $61.8MM against the cap next year.

Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Bickell, Versteeg, and Shaw at F.

Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarsson at D

Crawford in goal.

Sharp ($5.9MM) and Bickell ($4.0MM) and Versteeg ($2.2MM) would be the best candidates to get rid of. They may have to consider trading Seabrook too since he's going to be a UFA next year.

I'd heard some rumors at the end of the regular season and early in the playoffs about Crawford being traded. Does anybody think he gets dealt now that he's won a second Stanley Cup with the Hawks? I think the common opinion of him is similar to Chris Osgood. Decent goalie, but benefits from playing behind a great D.Crawford's got a $6 mill cap hit. Any chance they deal him and roll with Darling as the starter next season?

It might be a last resort if they can't move Sharp, Bickell and various other pieces to clear space. I have a very hard time believing that Saad will walk and that Seabrook will be allowed to walk.

IMO it all boils down how comfortable they are with Darling/Raanta. Crawford's a very good goalie, but last year his average salary was over 4.6 million more than Raanta and Darling combined. Is the dropoff in netminding from Crawford to Raanta/Darling greater than the assets that could be acquired/kept with the extra 4 million? If I were guessing Sharp, Bickell, Versteeg, Richards, Vermette, and Oduya are all gone. They absolutely have to lock up Saad, and Kruger's a priority as well. At that point Seabrook's contract becomes a concern, and if I'm picking I deal Crawford to keep Seabrook, assuming Darling/Raanta are NHL starter ready. That being said, I have no idea if they are.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Crawford is really good but probably still overpaid on this contract.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Corey Crawford meets the burden of proof: He's now an elite goalie

Crawford is coming off a final in which he gave up just 10 goals in six games. He was otherworldly in the final three games as the Hawks overcame a two-games-to-one deficit.

Capped by the shutout in the clincher, Crawford stopped 80 of 82 shots in Games 4, 5 and 6 for a gaudy .976 save percentage.

In closeout games this postseason, Crawford has done this:

• Made all 13 saves in relief of Scott Darling against the Predators;

• Stopped 34 of 37 shots in a 4-3 victory that completed the sweep of the Wild;

• Turned away 35 of 38 shots in the Game 7 victory in Anaheim, Calif.;

• Snuffed out all 25 Lightning shots Monday.

Even with his awful start in the first round, Crawford still finished the postseason with a 2.31 goals-against average and .924 save percentage.

Crawford has been at his best when it matters most. Looks elite to me.

 

[Statcruncher]

Corey Crawford meets the burden of proof: He's now an elite goalie

Crawford is coming off a final in which he gave up just 10 goals in six games. He was otherworldly in the final three games as the Hawks overcame a two-games-to-one deficit.

Capped by the shutout in the clincher, Crawford stopped 80 of 82 shots in Games 4, 5 and 6 for a gaudy .976 save percentage.

In closeout games this postseason, Crawford has done this:

• Made all 13 saves in relief of Scott Darling against the Predators;

• Stopped 34 of 37 shots in a 4-3 victory that completed the sweep of the Wild;

• Turned away 35 of 38 shots in the Game 7 victory in Anaheim, Calif.;

• Snuffed out all 25 Lightning shots Monday.

Even with his awful start in the first round, Crawford still finished the postseason with a 2.31 goals-against average and .924 save percentage.

Crawford has been at his best when it matters most. Looks elite to me.

The problem I have with that is that Darling had better numbers in the playoffs, a 2.21 GAA and .936 save %. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying Darling is better than Crawford. Just trying to point out there's no doubt Crawford is a very good goalie, but it's difficult to figure out how much to attribute to Crawford vs. the Chicago defense.

If Chicago weren't up against the cap there would be zero talk of trading Crawford. However on a cap strapped team it's hard to look at his 6 million number and not envision the options that become available if that space could be freed up.

 

[Hawks64]

Corey Crawford meets the burden of proof: He's now an elite goalie

Crawford is coming off a final in which he gave up just 10 goals in six games. He was otherworldly in the final three games as the Hawks overcame a two-games-to-one deficit.

Capped by the shutout in the clincher, Crawford stopped 80 of 82 shots in Games 4, 5 and 6 for a gaudy .976 save percentage.

In closeout games this postseason, Crawford has done this:

• Made all 13 saves in relief of Scott Darling against the Predators;

• Stopped 34 of 37 shots in a 4-3 victory that completed the sweep of the Wild;

• Turned away 35 of 38 shots in the Game 7 victory in Anaheim, Calif.;

• Snuffed out all 25 Lightning shots Monday.

Even with his awful start in the first round, Crawford still finished the postseason with a 2.31 goals-against average and .924 save percentage.

Crawford has been at his best when it matters most. Looks elite to me.

The problem I have with that is that Darling had better numbers in the playoffs, a 2.21 GAA and .936 save %. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying Darling is better than Crawford. Just trying to point out there's no doubt Crawford is a very good goalie, but it's difficult to figure out how much to attribute to Crawford vs. the Chicago defense.

If Chicago weren't up against the cap there would be zero talk of trading Crawford. However on a cap strapped team it's hard to look at his 6 million number and not envision the options that become available if that space could be freed up.

Sample size is very small. Crow's numbers are skewed by a horrid series against Nashville. He was largely responsible for keeping Tampa's offense in check in the SCF. He carried the Hawks for a long portion of the early season and has 2 Cups. There isn't a goalie I would rather have in net in a series clinching game.

I like Darling, he's excellent and has a great story but I am not sure I would give up Crawford unless there is not another option on the table.

 

[Statcruncher]

Corey Crawford meets the burden of proof: He's now an elite goalie

Crawford is coming off a final in which he gave up just 10 goals in six games. He was otherworldly in the final three games as the Hawks overcame a two-games-to-one deficit.

Capped by the shutout in the clincher, Crawford stopped 80 of 82 shots in Games 4, 5 and 6 for a gaudy .976 save percentage.

In closeout games this postseason, Crawford has done this:

• Made all 13 saves in relief of Scott Darling against the Predators;

• Stopped 34 of 37 shots in a 4-3 victory that completed the sweep of the Wild;

• Turned away 35 of 38 shots in the Game 7 victory in Anaheim, Calif.;

• Snuffed out all 25 Lightning shots Monday.

Even with his awful start in the first round, Crawford still finished the postseason with a 2.31 goals-against average and .924 save percentage.

Crawford has been at his best when it matters most. Looks elite to me.

The problem I have with that is that Darling had better numbers in the playoffs, a 2.21 GAA and .936 save %. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying Darling is better than Crawford. Just trying to point out there's no doubt Crawford is a very good goalie, but it's difficult to figure out how much to attribute to Crawford vs. the Chicago defense.

If Chicago weren't up against the cap there would be zero talk of trading Crawford. However on a cap strapped team it's hard to look at his 6 million number and not envision the options that become available if that space could be freed up.

Sample size is very small. Crow's numbers are skewed by a horrid series against Nashville. He was largely responsible for keeping Tampa's offense in check in the SCF. He carried the Hawks for a long portion of the early season and has 2 Cups. There isn't a goalie I would rather have in net in a series clinching game.

I like Darling, he's excellent and has a great story but I am not sure I would give up Crawford unless there is not another option on the table.

I can think of several. That being said I'd prefer Crawford stay on the roster, but I'm having a difficult time trying to quantify just how much of an upgrade he is over other options during a cap crunch. You know I love you, but saying Crawford has 2 cups is kind of weak. If it weren't for Darling Crawford would have 1 cup to go with a first round exit this year and you would be sitting in a bathtub with a razor in hand and a toaster in the other.

 

[Hawks64]

Corey Crawford meets the burden of proof: He's now an elite goalie

Crawford is coming off a final in which he gave up just 10 goals in six games. He was otherworldly in the final three games as the Hawks overcame a two-games-to-one deficit.

Capped by the shutout in the clincher, Crawford stopped 80 of 82 shots in Games 4, 5 and 6 for a gaudy .976 save percentage.

In closeout games this postseason, Crawford has done this:

• Made all 13 saves in relief of Scott Darling against the Predators;

• Stopped 34 of 37 shots in a 4-3 victory that completed the sweep of the Wild;

• Turned away 35 of 38 shots in the Game 7 victory in Anaheim, Calif.;

• Snuffed out all 25 Lightning shots Monday.

Even with his awful start in the first round, Crawford still finished the postseason with a 2.31 goals-against average and .924 save percentage.

Crawford has been at his best when it matters most. Looks elite to me.

The problem I have with that is that Darling had better numbers in the playoffs, a 2.21 GAA and .936 save %. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying Darling is better than Crawford. Just trying to point out there's no doubt Crawford is a very good goalie, but it's difficult to figure out how much to attribute to Crawford vs. the Chicago defense.

If Chicago weren't up against the cap there would be zero talk of trading Crawford. However on a cap strapped team it's hard to look at his 6 million number and not envision the options that become available if that space could be freed up.

Sample size is very small. Crow's numbers are skewed by a horrid series against Nashville. He was largely responsible for keeping Tampa's offense in check in the SCF. He carried the Hawks for a long portion of the early season and has 2 Cups. There isn't a goalie I would rather have in net in a series clinching game.I like Darling, he's excellent and has a great story but I am not sure I would give up Crawford unless there is not another option on the table.

I can think of several. That being said I'd prefer Crawford stay on the roster, but I'm having a difficult time trying to quantify just how much of an upgrade he is over other options during a cap crunch. You know I love you, but saying Crawford has 2 cups is kind of weak. If it weren't for Darling Crawford would have 1 cup to go with a first round exit this year and you would be sitting in a bathtub with a razor in hand and a toaster in the other.

This says it better than I can under Crawford Truthers.

 

[Statcruncher]

I disagree, if a goalie is elite or even very good I expect to see a difference if he's in net versus someone else. I don't see that with Crawford. You keep mentioning 2 cups, but again, is that because of the team in front of him, or Crawford? Here are the seasons with each goalie's save percentage, goals against average, and games started:

2011-12 Regular Season

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.903......2.72......55.....Crawford

.900......2.81......27.....Emery

2012 Playoffs

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.893......2.58.......6......Crawford

2012-13 Regular Season

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.926......1.94......28.....Crawford

.922......1.94......19.....Emery

.893......3.05........1.....Hutton

2013 Playoffs

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.932......1.84......23.....Crawford

Emery's numbers are basically indistinguishable from Crawford's both years. Most telling is that the improvement in SV% and GAA from 2011 to 2012 is virtually identical between Crawford and Emery. Did they both get exactly the same amount better in the offseason, or did the defense in front of them improve? Another interesting note is that since leaving Chicago Emery's average SV% and GAA are worse. Did he get worse, or is the Philly D just not as good as the Chicago's?

2013-14 Regular Season

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.917......2.26......56.....Crawford

.897......2.71......22.....Raanta

.811......5.00........4.....Khabibulin

2014 Playoffs

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.912......2.53......19.....Crawford

Here Crawford easily shows he's a better goalie than an undrafted free agent who's never played a minute in the NHL and and a goalie who's NHL career is flickering out in his 18th and final season.

2014-15 Regular Season

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.924......2.27......57.....Crawford

.936......1.94......13.....Darling

.936......1.89......12.....Raanta

2015 Playoffs

SV%.....GAA.....GS....Player

.924......2.31......19.....Crawford

.936......2.28........4.....Darling

I know you're going to pull the "small sample size" card, but if Crawford is elite or very good wouldn't you expect he could outperform or at least tie:

Raanta - an undrafted goalie entering his 2nd season in the NHL with only 22 NHL starts under his belt

Darling - a guy who was drafted in the 6th round in 2007 who would be making his first NHL appearance ever

Instead both these guys posted better SV% and GAA across the board.

Of the 4 years I have here Crawford has been head and shoulder better in only one of those regular seasons. Of those 4 years he's "stepped up" and improved his playoff numbers in only one year. He's solid and good, but he's not elite. And don't forget he handles the puck like a 1 year old handles a diaper.

Like I said, with no cap issues I don't think Crawford leaving is considered by anyone. But when only 6 goalies in the league make more than he does and Chicago is going to have to shave cash, it would be ignorant to not at least consider options on the 3rd highest salaried player on the team.

 

[Zegras11]

Congrats Rud, .

Lol is this a new thing I missed?

I thought it was pretty well known that after the Sabres he's a Blackhawk fan from his years in Chicago.

yeah, I'm still a Sabres fan above all else. But, I've lived in Chicago for the past 16 years, which is just about the same length of time I lived in Buffalo for. My wife is from here, my daughter was born here, and the home I bought is within walking distance of the United Center. 10 years ago, nobody I knew in this city even cared about or followed the NHL or the Hawks, so it was pretty easy to ignore them. But, as they started to turn into the monster they are, it was hard not to get sucked in. I used to celebrate the wins, but not really get upset over any losses so I was pretty clearly not a fan. But, over the years, I've bought in a bit more. I'm not a die hard Hawks fan like some here, but I probably care more about hockey than most so I'm going to appreciate a dynasty being formed right in my backyard. Tough not to love this team. Also helps that the Sabres are a non-factor right now, so I don't have to worry about many conflicts.

#crossdresser