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2016 Green Bay Packers thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter sho nuff
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Do you think Ted's directive from above is to win a title? Or is it to make the team money?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
This is a legitimate question. Because the way this franchise seems to go is similar to how Herb Kohl ran the Bucks. Just field a team good enough get to the playoffs so we make a profit, and that's all that we really care about. Who cares if we lose round 1 every year.
Ted's actions seem to be to field a consistently competitive team, which he succeeds at. We are competitive year in and year out. And every so often we seem to have the perfect storm and a few break out rookies that allow us to be good enough to win a title.
Actions speak louder than words, and Ted's actions seem to be, just do enough to keep the team good so we can make money. Until he goes out and makes some significant signings, I'll be a little skeptical on if Ted's goal is to win a superbowl.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I shutter to think where this team would be if we'd had the QB carousel of Minnesota or Chicago. I think Ted's main strategy is to keep Aaron Rodgers. The rest of the players don't matter much. I mean sure he tries, but this is a 6 win team without Rodgers.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Here's the thing. have you ever lived in a house with a kid with a drum set? The drummer never appreciates how difficult it is to live with constant drumming of another.
Do you really believe it is in anyway possible that any of us here do not know your positions on Randall, Capers, and McCarthy? Anyone? maybe you could offer insight on another aspect of the team. Maybe you could even be positive just once in a while.?
How about this. You are a packer Fan. How about telling us a positive story about what made you a fan, a story which does not contrast that experience with Dom Capers sucking the life from your soul. Give it a try.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I thought about buying my sister's twin boys a drum set for a gift. Although I know revenge would be back at me with something with massive amounts of glitter or a karaoke machine.
I'm excited for the next few months. This could mean great optimism for this upcoming season or great disappointment. I am hoping for optimism
I'm excited for the next few months. This could mean great optimism for this upcoming season or great disappointment. I am hoping for optimism
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'm kind of meh on it. I don't have a lot of faith that the core issues will get addressed.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ted seriously just needs to call Charles Woodson. He'd be the best corner they have instantly. Even at 54 years old.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I hope you're right. I never got this sense from him either until the question was posed. Before I came out and responded with "you're crazy!" I thought about it and I felt like it was a legitimate question.
I think given the franchise doesn't technically have an "owner," that money would not be the top priority. Also with a franchise as rich in tradition as GB is, they don't' really struggle to make money like, let's say, TEN might. It's just mind boggling the way Ted makes decisions that make you scratch your head. I wish I knew him personally so I could see if he is this stubborn with everything in his life. He seems to rarely give up on his draft picks. After one season, sure that's fine, but we will see if he drafts a CB early in this draft.
I just wish FA started soon so we could get back to #####ing about actual roster moves, and not speculate on whether he will or will not sign someone. You can put me with the "it is absolutely imperative for us to resign Perry" crowd. After looking at FA I think this is one of those FAs that we would wish Ted to sign, and it happens to be our own, so we have to get him locked up.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah there are no Justin Huston or Von Millers out there. We need to take what we can get. Quite frankly the pass rush isn't going to improve much unless we get lucky in the draft.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think this is Ted's goal as well.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I don't think Ted gives a damn about the money or competing with revenue.
He cares about building a team that is a long term thing...not a one year be good...suck for 4...then be good again for a year or two.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Which is foolish. Nobody remembers the one and dones. There is only one team anyone remembers from previous years. Who cares if they suck for a couple years. Besides it's virtually impossible for them to suck with Rodgers. The guy is 8 wins all by himself. We don't hang banners for "Playoffs" like the Lions do. The threshold for success is Super Bowl Winner.
Nobody ever talks about the 15-1 Packers from 2011. And that was a better team than the Super Bowl team from the year before by 5 games. But they are a footnote.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Foolish to be a contender every year?
BS.
Id rather be the Packers since 92 or so than the Giants. Give me a team that has a shot every freaking year (as we pretty much have been contenders in a way going back to many of the Favre years). Over being bad for 5 years at a time to have that one great year...then go back to being pretty mediocre again.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Foolish to accept mediocrity over going for the gold. Do you really think trading a 4th rounder for Jamie Collins this year would have made them suck for 4 years? He'd have been one of the top 4 players on their weak defense.
How about trading for Eric Rowe? Because apparently the Packers had him right next to Randall in the 2015 draft. But Ted wouldn't make a move for a corner despite the trainwreck we kept trotting out this year. Would that have wrecked them? He's not even 1MM. How does that set them back 4 years?
How about trading for Eric Rowe? Because apparently the Packers had him right next to Randall in the 2015 draft. But Ted wouldn't make a move for a corner despite the trainwreck we kept trotting out this year. Would that have wrecked them? He's not even 1MM. How does that set them back 4 years?
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Sure, in hindsight these trades seem reasonable but 1. was this even an option, and 2. you start trading draft picks away and if you strike out on those trades now you've really hamstrung yourself for a long time.
Since Ted took over they have 118-73-1 record and won the conference championship 6 times, superbowl once. That's pretty good.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Who said mediocrity?
Do you have any indication that Collins was available to him?
Or other trades?
Come on...just stop...
sho nuff
Footballguy
Pipes
Footballguy
It is pretty good but I'd be willing to bet a number of GM's would have a similar record with the best QB in the planet running the show. Props to TT for drafting him and being a fiscally responsible GM but nows the time to be more aggressive and taking a few more chances. #12 isn't going to be around forever.
Pipes
Footballguy
These were just a couple of examples McGinn used. Collins wouldn't have been prudent but his overall point makes sense that TT is stuck in his ways and won't make a midseason move to help put the team over the top.
Pipes
Footballguy
They are a contender every year because of Aaron Rodgers. Any semi-competent GM could get them a 9-7 or 10-6 record every year in today's NFL with Rodgers back there. So TT may be above average but he's slipping. He last few drafts have been mediocre at best and he's set in his ways. But hey the Packers are hitting record profits every year and winning NFC North Championships...well except for 2015. That's why I'm so frustrated. The Packers are in their best shape ever financially and they are solid contenders every year but almost always fall just a little bit short. Maybe 1 or 2 players would be enough to put them over the hump. The Packers are a 2010 hot streak away from being the Miami Dolphins of the 1980s.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yep. I just don't get it. Ted is so set in his ways, he can't even acknowledge that other options might be better. He just smugly sits back and chuckles as all the fools like Belichick and Dimitroff waste money on guys like Shea McClellan, Chris Hogan, and Muhammed Sanu.
Apparently McCarthy is fed up with it. I hope his frustration pushes Ted to look inward at his strategy.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yes...because of Rodgers...they also have to do things a certain way because of the $$$ invested in Rodgers.
They are also an onsides kick away from having gone to another Super Bowl.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yes, I agree. Now is the time. But who do we go for? I was once super excited about the potential FAs out there but at this point I feel like the best people out there are our own! (Lacy, Perry, Lang, Cook)
Frustrating... one or two impact players on defense (not role players) would put this team over the top.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Pipes
Footballguy
Again that's why it's frustrating because they've been so close. And this current roster is worse than that team that lost to the Seahawks..that's on TT.
Pipes
Footballguy
Also check out Bill Michels Facebook page. Not able to post a link but there are high tech shoulder pads out there that a number of NFL players are using. Allegedly way better technology that current shoulder pads. Packers won't let their players use them because they have a financial interest in the company that makes current pads. He had an interesting segment on his show about this today.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
That's what happens when you don't truly nail a first rounder for half a decade whilst eschewing free agency. This team has been in decline since 2010.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
Well, yeah, I guess you could say that seeing how that was a Super Bowl year. Anything short of that would technically be "in decline". 2 NFCCG out of the last 3 years? A lot of teams would kill to be "in decline" like that. 6 straight playoff appearances since 2010? Again, a lot of teams would kill to be "in decline" like that.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I didn't say they suck. But they certainly aren't as good as the Woodson era team. They are about a 10-6 team. Which is fine but I think we saw last weekend how far they are from being the best. Atlanta could have hung 60+ in that D. They literally imposed their will.
Unless they vastly improve on D, this team isn't a true threat. Dallas will most likely be better next year.
Put it this way. This team with DeAndre Hopkins and Landon Collins instead of Datone Jones and Damarious Randall respectively, probably has another trophy.
Thats the difference between hitting and missing on your picks. Hope Ted hits this year. He's due.
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jurrassic
Footballguy
I don't fully buy into this theory. Yes, Rodgers makes a lot of money, but he's not the only franchise qb in the league. Rodgers cap hit in 2016 was about $19 million and Brady's was about $14 million. $5 million is a decent amount of money but it's not a monumental obstacle to overcome. I will consistently compare Thompson to Belichick the GM. The Patriots consistently identify their holes and fill them, uncover value in FA and cut ties with players that aren't in their future early, often getting draft picks in return (see Milloy, Collins, Jones, etc.) The Patriots signed Moss, Dillon, Hogan, Welker, Amendola, Colvin, Ninkovich, Woodhead, Patton, Seau, Vrabel, Harrison, Lewis, Blount, etc. in free agency. That is the difference between the most successful organization of the last 2 decades and the Packers. A willingness to admit your faults, holes and address them aggressively. I've stated it before in this thread and will state it again. The Patriots are an example of what an organization with a generational talent at qb is supposed to operate like. Seize the moment. The Patriots create their own luck
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Well said. They are the best for a reason.jurrassic said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well...he is not the only big piece.jurrassic said:
Add in Rodgers plus a guy like Clay...how much of the percentage of the cap in 2 people?
As for BB...no doubt he does it better than Thompson...but also look at them, with what they have in Brady (look at NO with Brees, Pitt with Ben, Indy with Luck). Those teams have to all do things differently than others. Look at Seattle and what they will see as the guys get past their early cheaper deals. Not as easy to keep people and sign new people when you are loaded with huge contracts like that.
Ninkovich is a great example...he was not some high priced guy. Most of their guys (outside of Moss) were high priced free agents. Ted has signed such guys as well...lower tiered. Not as many...and definitely not with the luck that BB has had. Saturday, Pickett...guys that are not getting the big attention.
I would like to see him do more of it than he does...but don't act like NE is generally big players in FA. They do things a lot like GB does. Draft a lot of players and hope 4 of 8 stick. They fill a bit more with FA than TT. But definitely have a different game plan with who they go after. And they are, of course, by far the outlier in the league for how they do it.
Hell...look at ATL this year with their D...highly made up of 1st and 2nd year guys...and highly made up of guys they drafted.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Bottom line, Ted needs to quit passing on better players for need players. He needs do better.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Decline? As in top 5 in wins in the last 12 years? That's not a decline, sorry. Doesn't qualify at all as a decline.Sabertooth said:
You can be disappointed in how things have played out, but sometimes the hyperbole around the way this team is run is a little much.
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Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
The discussions and examples in the last few postings point out that Ted just can't seem to evaluate CBs, LBs, and DL. Especially when yuo compare him to a similar management style to the Patriots, who seem to get more out of the players they bring in.
Offensively he seems to be fantastic. People like to point to his draft success ratio and claim he hits more than he misses, and is above average (one of the best) in the NFL. Sure, maybe. On offense I can fully expect the OL he takes round 5 to be a probowler at some point. The WR he selects round 2 or 3 to be a huge steal. The RB he selects will likely be half decent at the very least.
But is there anyone in here who gets excited when Ted drafts a defensive player? In general, he has missed on most 1st round selections on defense. Clay Matthews had a good few seasons and how he's performing about above average to good. Nick Perry finally started to play well (contract year motivating him?). Clinton Dix looks like a great pick (although if I remember he kind of fell into our lap). Otherwise... AJ Hawk (sure he had a good career but as an average LB. He was a top 5 pick), BJ Raji (anyone know if he's coming back?), Jones, Randall, Clark. None of those are performing like a 1st round pick should.
So, for now, 3/8 are making an impact today (1 is a FA); 2/8 are no longer on the team; 2/8 look to be busts; 1/8 is too early to tell. So 50% are either busts or not on the team. Potentially 5/8 if Perry leaves, and 6/8 if Clark continues to really not be a presence on the field. That can't be above average.
So if Ted takes a defensive player round 1 we have a 25-50% chance that he will be good
Offensively he seems to be fantastic. People like to point to his draft success ratio and claim he hits more than he misses, and is above average (one of the best) in the NFL. Sure, maybe. On offense I can fully expect the OL he takes round 5 to be a probowler at some point. The WR he selects round 2 or 3 to be a huge steal. The RB he selects will likely be half decent at the very least.
But is there anyone in here who gets excited when Ted drafts a defensive player? In general, he has missed on most 1st round selections on defense. Clay Matthews had a good few seasons and how he's performing about above average to good. Nick Perry finally started to play well (contract year motivating him?). Clinton Dix looks like a great pick (although if I remember he kind of fell into our lap). Otherwise... AJ Hawk (sure he had a good career but as an average LB. He was a top 5 pick), BJ Raji (anyone know if he's coming back?), Jones, Randall, Clark. None of those are performing like a 1st round pick should.
So, for now, 3/8 are making an impact today (1 is a FA); 2/8 are no longer on the team; 2/8 look to be busts; 1/8 is too early to tell. So 50% are either busts or not on the team. Potentially 5/8 if Perry leaves, and 6/8 if Clark continues to really not be a presence on the field. That can't be above average.
So if Ted takes a defensive player round 1 we have a 25-50% chance that he will be good
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Do you really think this team is as good as the Super Bowl or 15-1 teams? I don't. The defense isn't even close.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
This year's product, probably not. To say that the team has been in a decline since 2010 is exaggerating. You don't win like they've won by being in a decline.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Losses don't necessarily mean a decline either. I'm not saying this team is in a decline. I happen to disagree with Saber on that. I think we are treading water at best. We are a good team but not great because we are missing a few pieces to make us great.
But, consider the division over the last 12 years. You can pretty much guarantee at least 4-2 record vs divisional opponents, then you really only need to go 6-4 the rest of the season to have double digit wins. Teams in better divisions (NFC East, AFC West, NFC South in recent years), you are hoping to end up 3-3 within your division. The Packers could almost guarantee to beat Chicago 2x and Detroit 2x and split with MIN on some years. That's huge.
Look at Seattle. Honestly, if you put them in the NFC East or South and I don't think they make the playoffs.
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