Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Quite possibly. It is interesting that he was on the bench last week and only got into the game when Gunter got hurt. Looks like Gunter was a full go today at practice.Sabertooth said:
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2016 Green Bay Packers thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter sho nuff
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah I really tend to think Randall's problems are upstairs. I was reading a bit on him and he's got some off the field concerns as well. He was on twitter apparently badmouthing his Alma Mater. He was present when Jaelen Strong got popped for pot. He doesn't like to tackle. He appears to blame everyone else on the field when he gets burned. These are all things that don't mean much by themselves but don't paint a great picture either. I hope he just starts to grow up (both as a player and a person). He's going to be around for a few more years either way. But I would not be surprised if the Packers went corner in the first round. Heck they need to pull a play out of the Wolf playbook and go corner in rounds 1-3. Remember even when Wolf did that he only hit on one of the three (although trading away Fred Vinson for Ahman Green was a pretty good salvage of the blown pick lol).
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Good points. I wasn't a big fan of Starks in general. Not saying "I called it" but I kind of had a suspicion that he was done for. I love Ripkowski. I was hoping they'd draft someone round 5-6 or so at RB, but we have many needs and RB didn't seem like a big glaring one before the season. I'd like to see Lacy back, and I have zero doubt he will be back. Then you have Montgomery at RB2 and draft someone at RB3 in the draft this year. Although I'd like to see Montgomery used in a more hybrid role rather than be strictly a RB.
Too many needs at defense to start over at RB IMO. Lacy was having a career year before his injury, except for TDs but that wasn't really his fault
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
James Starks was 31 I believe heading into the season. It's one thing when Adrian Peterson or Ladainian Tomlinson are 31. Quite another when a journeyman like Starks is.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
That's exactly why I wasn't a big fan of having him as our primary backup heading into this season. That was foolish. No youth at the RB position behind Lacy. Just a guy on the wrong side of 30, a FB the size of Mike Alstott, and a WR we were hoping could play a few snaps at RB.
It wouldn't have hurt Thomspon to draft a RB last year. I would have preferred a RB to Trevor Davis. Or even shop the FA market... We signed Starks when we should have let him walk and maybe kicked the tires on a guy like Khiry Robinson or Jacquizz Rodgers. Both signed for way cheaper than Starks. Rodgers is a beast... makes about 1/3 of what Starks is being paid this season
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
You sound dangerously close to questioning Ted Almighty.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The playoff scenarios are pretty interesting, especially since the Packers-Lions is the late game Sunday so the teams will know exactly what is on the line hours before the game starts. Playing around with a playoff scenario generator at ESPN, the key early games are Giants at Redskins and Saints at Falcons. The Packers' possibilities range from having their season end to hosting a wild card game (likely with the Giants coming to Green Bay - nightmare!)
It seems if the Redskins win early (Giants have nothing to play for) the winner of Packers-Lions is through and the loser goes home, but they both make the playoffs if they tie. That might be fun if the game is close late and they head into overtime.
The other interesting scenario for me is if the Saints and Giants win, and the Lions beat the Packers, the two teams would return to Detroit for the Wildcard game. 1994 anyone? Favre threw 4 int's in the regular season finale at the Silverdome, then hit Sharpe on that crazy broken play bomb to win the wildcard game in Detroit a week later.
It seems if the Redskins win early (Giants have nothing to play for) the winner of Packers-Lions is through and the loser goes home, but they both make the playoffs if they tie. That might be fun if the game is close late and they head into overtime.
The other interesting scenario for me is if the Saints and Giants win, and the Lions beat the Packers, the two teams would return to Detroit for the Wildcard game. 1994 anyone? Favre threw 4 int's in the regular season finale at the Silverdome, then hit Sharpe on that crazy broken play bomb to win the wildcard game in Detroit a week later.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Would be funny if the coaches went out to the overtime coin toss and said, alright let's just take knees in OT and tie
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The Disgrace of Gijon - from World Cup 1982. After this game, FIFA changed the scheduling rules so the final group stage games are always played simultaneously, so teams don't know the outcomes from other games.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It's be even better if they agreed, the Lions came out and did it and the Packers went down and scored. Because #### the Lions.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Mike Tolbert doesn't have the mileage of other 30 year old RBs. I wouldn't feel too good if he were our only backup RB
I hear Samkon Gado is fresh these days
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Starks was actually 30 heading into the season. But point taken on his age.
However, he averaged 4.1 per carry last season, and another 9.1 per reception (career best) on 43 catches. So again, going off the evidence they had, it still seemed Starks could play.
Beyond that, they signed him to a reasonable contract where they could release him without much impact. As far as I can tell, there wasn't anyone out there predicting the demise of Starks, nor was anyone concerned about the contract he signed.
http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/28743/james-starks-new-two-year-contract-gives-packers-flexibility
"The way Starks’ contract is structured, they could release him after one year and save $3 million on their 2017 salary cap if he didn’t repeat his performance from last season, when he set a career high for rushing yards (601), receptions (43), receiving yards (392) and touchdowns (five).
Starks will turn 31 years old shortly after the 2016 season ends. If the Packers wanted to move before next season, they would only be on the hook for $750,000 of his prorated signing bonus on the 2017 cap. His $3 million in pay (base salary plus bonuses) would be wiped off their books.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Perhaps...guy had a decently year last year as a backup..,didn't seem like there any real arrows to show him being nearly as bad as he is this year.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Jacquizz makes 750k this year alone, but I get your point.
I agree, no one was predicting Starks was done for as far as "experts" out there, but I had a sneaking suspicion that if Lacy went down Starks was not going to be as good as last year. Just call it a gut feeling I guess. Often those feelings just turn out to be a burrito fighting with some salsa, but this time it seemed to be right on.
I am happy to hear his contract is set up to not matter much on next years' books. If there is one thing we can all agree on is that Starks needs to go. Too bad... I think this team would have done better with Kuhn instead of Starks. We picked the wrong 30-something
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
It's been a long wait. Seems like 2 weeks since they played last. Come tomorrow I hope I will have a smile whenever anyone says "Jim Bob Cooter".
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Rough game in terms of defensive backfield.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Great effort by Capers in light of injuries. Great call to get Mathews in position to intercept Stafford. I wonder if the defense has enough bodies to hold up at all in another game.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I might have liked to see Cook or Jordy back on defense for Detroit's hail Mary.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Or everyone not stading behind all of the receivers?
Secondary is just so beat up...going to need to win shootouts to advance.
Hoping the OL can get healthy this week after the dings yesterday.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I blame TT for the lack of depth at DB. Why he only carried 12 DBs is inexcusable.sho nuff said:
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Two high-ranking Packers personnel executives – Eloit Wolf and Brian Gutekunst – will interview for the San Francisco 49ers' general manager job this week, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter and other media reports. Wolf is the presumed likely successor to GM Ted Thompson in Green Bay, but it's not known how much longer the 63-year-old Thompson intends to keep going. Thompson is under contract through the 2018 season. The Packers have regularly promoted Wolf, who now holds the title of director-football operations.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I would hate to lose either.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Same here. But I think they Packers can keep them only so long. Only so many promotions you can give them before you run out. Hopefully they can retain at least one of them.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Thompson should step down if he really believes one of them is qualified and ready to take over his job.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah Clay had a great opportunity right there. I don't have high hopes for the playoffs with HWY23 being relied on. He's like a broken slot machine that pays every time. I'd almost rather pull some guy off the street than rely on that loser.
116 out of 119 CBs ranked. Of yeah I think that's a bust. That means that every team has almost 4 corners better than him. Big whiff by Ted there. Sure could use Heyward right about now.
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Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
And that really is the interesting thing about this. If Thompson has his doubts that either guy is ready, then it does make some sense to grant them permission and see what happens. If Thompson, and the rest of the organization, believes that either guy really is ready, then it makes some sense for him to step down.
I have to believe there is a succession plan in place. Would Wolf be willing to hang on until Thompson leaves in '18?
Also interesting is that they granted permission this year after saying no to the Lions last year. Pretty clear they wouldn't want these guys going to a team in the North Division.
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Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
I don't want to sound like a broken record. But, he's been hurt all year, including a groin surgery. He's played like crap, but how much of it is health?
I'm willing to give him another year before I break out bust labels. After all, everyone here labeled Adams as garbage last season.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It might be health. Might be he's just not and NFL talent. I doubt he gets cut. I think he's good enough to stick around as a 3 or 4. The Packers love those tweeners anyway. I notice he's slid down the depth chart since the benching a few weeks ago. But now with Rollins hurt (again) I'd imagine he's going to get his opportunities to show what he is. Lot's of guys playing hurt right now.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Its almost impossible to follow what Capers is doing back there during these games, its such a patchwork at this point. The official depth chart has Randall as the #1 LCB and Rollins as the RCB (http://www.packers.com/team/depth-chart.html) but Gunter played RC the entire game. Randall and Collins were rotating in and out on the left (it seemed) - probably because Randall was hurt and Rollins was just bad - until both were out for good by the start of the 4th qtr. Its a bad night when an injury to Makinton Dorleant is a major concern - he also left for good in the 3rd qtr. I guess Dorleant is the 5th CB (?) (if you don't count Sam Shields). Hyde made his INT playing at LC, with Burnett inside as the nickel. I read this morning that Burnett played ILB, SS, nickel and dime during the game. Gunter, Hyde, Burnett and Ha-Ha all played every snap - 66. Kentrell Brice played almost 50 snaps at safety.
Thank god they got the Sunday afternoon start - hope a few of these guys can come back and be reasonably healthy this weekend. Apart from the injuries, the biggest concern for me is that Clinton-Dix had a pretty bad game by his standards - playing soft and getting beat several times. Burnett is a rock. They need the other "vets" like Clinton-Dix and Hyde to hold things together back there if they want to beat the Giants.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
CB has to be at or very near the top of the offeason needs list. I was pretty happy going into the season with Shields, Randal and Rollins, but we might have none of them this weekend. It seems possible we'll never see Shields play again.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
Agree with this, but this issue goes directly back to either TT and McCarthy or just TT, we absolutely knew Shields history of concussions and him missing huge chunks of time when concussed. We did nothing in preparation for this, he was injured in week 2 I think, there were plenty of vet guys on the street we could have added as insurance to a long term injury to Shields at that point. We choose to do nothing and it may cost us a shot at the Superbowl we are that weak in the secondary. I am not saying that they could have been a multiple season fix, but most definitely could have helped us this year. Obviously they have not told me why they choose not to address this situation properly, but clearly they did not.
I know some of you believe no changes in management are needed, but this is the exact reason I disagree, and feel we have to get out of this "free agents are the devil" mentality. I am definitely not saying we need to pick up every FA and change the way we do things dramatically, but clearly this season is proof some change is required.
There was a stat posted Sunday night about the passer rating vs the right side of our defense and it was pretty sick to see. Every passing distance the QB rating was over like 120 or maybe even higher. I am hoping for a blizzard at least on the right side of the field on Sunday or we may need 40+ to win, I can see OBJ putting up some sick numbers on Sunday.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Contrary to what you'll hear on TV with the announcers and clueless broadcasters, just because someone has one concussion does not increase the potential for a second or third. What does increase the risk is going back too early. If you are still having symptoms of a concussion and return to play, yes you are at a greater risk. If you are fully recovered and you go back you are just at much of a risk as you were for your first one.
What you need to look at are:
1. Style of play; does a person play with a particular lack of regard for their head/neck region, is tackling an issue, position that they play
2. Are they, in fact, fully recovered? Most people recover within a 10-14 day period. There is a small amount (10-20%) that take a lot longer. Some may never completely recover. It is possible that Shields never recovered from his last concussion which is why this one is such a bad one to recover from. If he hasn't recovered by now, GB should cut ties with him all together. He should retire.
I agree, I was pretty happy going into the season with what we had, but I was uncertain about Shields. We should have had a contingency plan. We didn't.
I agree. It's clear TT won't shift from his as little as possible FA policy, even when we are kind of in a win-now moment with Rodgers getting older and the division getting better. I'm not sure he needs to be fired but it would be nice for him to retire
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
It's the same arguments over and over. Ted Thompson probably felt the CB position had some talent, albeit young. He counted on Shields having a solid year, which would've meant one side of the field was completely taken care of.
Do you think he knew Randall would need groin surgery? Rollins would get injured? At some point, attrition factors into it.
Detroit was in a similar situation as Green Bay with their secondary. How'd that work out for them plugging in NFL vets down the stretch when their best corner was injured? You'd rather have Asa Jackson or Johnson Bademosi? Because they got shredded the last couple weeks of the season.
I'd rather throw the youngster in the fire and see what happens.
Do you think he knew Randall would need groin surgery? Rollins would get injured? At some point, attrition factors into it.
Detroit was in a similar situation as Green Bay with their secondary. How'd that work out for them plugging in NFL vets down the stretch when their best corner was injured? You'd rather have Asa Jackson or Johnson Bademosi? Because they got shredded the last couple weeks of the season.
I'd rather throw the youngster in the fire and see what happens.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Thompson counts a lot on his draft picks to take the next step. Which sometimes they do. Adams is a great example. I can't blame him for not trusting that his 3 CBs would take the next step and possibly be as good as any CB trio in the league. If Shields gets hurt, his mentality is next man up is not a huge drop off. Clearly that hasn't been the case. My biggest issue with the organization is the complete lack of attention the CB position has gotten until he took Randall and Rollins. As a result our depth is pretty poor. I'm not saying go out and sign Revis or something stupid. It would have been nice to retain maybe 1 of our previous CBs who has left (Heyward possibly). Or to draft one last season for depth, even round 5 or 6. I've said in the past, I would have loved to see him take a RB (or CB) instead of Trevor Davis. I think whoever he took there (CB or RB) would be contributing way more than Trevor Davis has all season. I was disappointed to see us draft another WR. TT almost has Matt Millen syndrome where he drafts a WR every single season. Not 1st round but still... If it were me, I'd be drafting a DB every season instead of a WR...
Rollins looked promising at times this year but Randall still looks to be a project of some sort. I like both of them and I think they both have potential.
On a side note: people are saying Rollins is out this week... everything I'm reading and hearing is positive about him playing this week?
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
maybe Trevor Davis can play corner. He has the speed. Can we get Troy Brown to come in and coach him up about making the switch.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
You are correct on how the Packers team is built. Under Thompson, they are going to relay on young players to step up. Sometimes it requires more patience, like it did with Adams, Cobb, Nelson, Nick Collins, etc. I disagree on Hayward. I also believe Gunter is a fine option as a #4 and possible #3, and I like Hyde as a jack of all trades.
It wasn't too long ago all the complaints were about ILB and Safety. Those positions appear to be solved, and solved through drafted players or Packer undrafted free agents. My hope is the CB position is on the same trajectory, though I was hoping to see better this season, just like everyone else.
The bigger issue to me, again, is lack of pass rush. With Matthews and Perry less than 100%, a declining Peppers. This is where they need the most help. CBs can be made better by getting after the QB.
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Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
I don't think any determination has been made on this. It's really hard to figure this one. He landed awkwardly, but they aren't saying much at all about the injury. All McCarthy would say is more tests to come and that Rollins was walking around the locker room yesterday.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The thing I take issue with is when someone says Thompson has "done nothing" or that he "didn't have a plan" for an injury contingency. We don't know what Thompson is doing or not doing day to day, but I think one thing is pretty certain about his work ethic and style of management -Thompson is well-known for having a tireless, "leave no stone unturned" approach to his job. We know he doesn't have a family or any personal life to speak of, and essentially lives at the office 24/7/365. Its one thing to criticize a decision he made, which I suppose we are all free to do as fans (even though in most all cases, we have no idea why the decision was made, what was considered, what input he had, etc). To assume he "did nothing" or didn't have a plan is just clearly false. What we don't know is the basis for his plan, what went into it and how it was formulated. Maybe he was negligent in not considering certain things he knew or should have known, but I think more likely is he consulted his staff and all the resources available and made a plan based on his experience and knowledge.
When you carry salaries like Rodgers and Matthews, you're not going to have excellent depth across the board and have to take a risk somewhere. Did Thompson err by going into the season with this group of corners? I suppose its easy to say that now in January, but I also think its impressive what the coaches and players have accomplished given the hand they were dealt.
5 out of 6 NFC titled (I believe). 8 straight playoffs? The last 20+ years of Wolf / Thompson have been incredible.
When you carry salaries like Rodgers and Matthews, you're not going to have excellent depth across the board and have to take a risk somewhere. Did Thompson err by going into the season with this group of corners? I suppose its easy to say that now in January, but I also think its impressive what the coaches and players have accomplished given the hand they were dealt.
5 out of 6 NFC titled (I believe). 8 straight playoffs? The last 20+ years of Wolf / Thompson have been incredible.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yes I would agree with most of this. Going into this offseason we need pass rushers. Unfortunately this is the one area I trust TT the least in drafting. I think CB is definitely higher assuming Shields is gone. And he needs to be. I'm optimistic on that since they let Collins go even though he had medical clearance. And Finley.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
We didn't have a contingency plan. No one is talking about going out to sign a 15 mil a season RB or DB to be our backup or even a starter.
Are you telling me that you are okay with Trevor Davis (who is behind UDFA Allison) in the 6th round ahead of a RB or CB? I'm not. That's what I would have liked to see. Some attention, any attention.
As I've said above, my philosophy would be to draft a DB every draft. It doesn't have to be round 1 or even 5. But some of those late round fliers can be better served at DBs and even a RB.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
Yes yes yes, we get it man, you love to throw that around and yet just 1 title with all that greatness.
So we are 1 SB better than the Bills during that great stretch they had. We wouldn't be talking about this if there had been a plan or he had made a move once Shields went down, unless the plan was to hold and see if Capers craps a CB. They didn't do jack or we would see it on the field, our CB's were dropping like flies and we just kept not doing anything. There are CB's picked up throughout the season, and again, I am not saying we are going to get a superstar, but it would be far better than what we have right now, which is why our pass defense sucks.
31st in the NFL in passing yards allowed per game we have given up 4 less than the Saints per game.
