Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Well, they also need pass rush help in a big way. Peppers is about done. Matthews appears to be on the decline. Perry does OK, is he coming back? We're absolutely missing play makers on defense right now.
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2016 Green Bay Packers thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter sho nuff
- Start date
Sabertooth
Footballguy
The defense is pretty devoid of talent. Outside of the safeties there just isn't a lot of hope there. Neal is good.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Quoting from the same area I pulled Cook's article from, Adams wrote one last season
" Overall, I’d grade my rookie season a B. I had a pretty good year on the field, but I also feel like I could have done a lot more — and will do more in the future. We also fell short of our team goal. You can’t give yourself an A unless your team achieves its ultimate goal. For us, that was no less than a Super Bowl.
Maybe the best thing about my rookie season is that it’s over. I’m way more comfortable now, going into my second year. Now I can just play, and not have to worry about all the new stuff. Now it’s just about football. I’m used to seeing and reading a new defense each week. That’s one thing you learn about the NFL as a rookie: the real learning happens in the classroom between Sundays. The game slows down.
My goal for this upcoming season is simple: Just catch every ball thrown to me. All year. Everything. It sounds like a joke, but as a receiver, you have to have the mentality that nothing is uncatchable. That builds trust with your QB, too, I hope. "
I'm not so sure I'd give his rookie season a B... I mean he almost missed the cut back before preseason if I'm not mistaken. I'd give his rookie season a C-. He dropped a lot of passes (lead the team with 6, tied for 12th in the NFL... as a slot guy!)
But I like his attitude. Acknowledges he has room to grow. Randall, I'm sure, feels like he could put on a clinic or camp...
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
There was an article I read back in December referencing his injuries for the season and basically insinuating that was to blame for his play. I thought that was what was being referenced... I haven't seen anything recently, would be interested to read.
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Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
I can't recall where I read the comments. He basically stated he just hasn't been healthy all year, and seemed to be dwelling on that a little too much for my liking.
sho nuff
Footballguy
The Kerminator
Footballguy
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Mike Daniels too. Ryan and Martinez? Not exactly Urlacher and Kuechly out there. JAGS. Better than some of the crap we've had recently but low ceiling guys.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I don't know. It depends on your definition. Maybe JAG is a little harsh. But they aren't 6MM guys on the open market either. Placeholder type guys. If a true talent comes in, they will be pushed down the depth chart. They are better than AJ Hawk was, that's for sure.
sho nuff
Footballguy
They just finished what...their 2nd and 1st years respectively?
And Hawk was a solid starter for many years. Again...that's better than JAG.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I don't know. Being a solid starter on a #### defense isn't really that great. I mean, SOMEBODY has to play.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
So, bring me back Lang, Perry, and Cook. BTW, that IS being active in free agency. I'd like to see Tretter back and I still hold out hope on Elliot. Explore matters with Lacy who was producing well before going out. At least pitch him an offer. No bidding war, but a nice solid, competitive offer.
Peppers, so long and thanks for the memories. Datone Jones, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
Kick the tires on Alex Okafor. Keep on eye on the market for Dontari Poe.
Be a competitive player on A.J. Bouye. Play right up into the lower levels of irrational exuberance, but not beyond.
Peppers, so long and thanks for the memories. Datone Jones, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
Kick the tires on Alex Okafor. Keep on eye on the market for Dontari Poe.
Be a competitive player on A.J. Bouye. Play right up into the lower levels of irrational exuberance, but not beyond.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
We'll see how Thompson views free agency this season. Would love Bouye, but I'm not sure he makes it out of Houston. They don't need Poe as much. Clark played better inside at the end of the year, and he's young. Be interested to see if Raji wants to try a comeback.
Okafor would be awesome.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Some interesting writing on Cobb and Matthews:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/01/25/dougherty-tough-roster-calls-loom-packers/97039672/
"Matthews ($11.1 million) and Cobb ($9.5 million) are paid like stars. They have the second- and third-highest salaries on the Packers’ roster in 2017, so they have to produce big. But after the last two seasons, there’s good reason to question whether they’ll provide enough bang for that buck."
"With Matthews, the solution is another position change. He wants to play outside linebacker, but he’ll be 31 in May. His injuries keep accumulating — he needs shoulder surgery this offseason — and his pass rush skills are starting to decline (11½ sacks in his last 28 games).
So move him back inside. That’s where he helps this team most at this point in his career. Then draft a pass rusher high.
Cobb, though he can play any receiver position, he’s best in the slot. But as we saw this season, so is Jordy Nelson post-ACL surgery. And Nelson is better because he’s so much bigger (6-3).
So if I’m the Packers, I’m asking Cobb to cut his salary about in half, with the chance to earn back much of the money with a big season. To broach that, though, you have to be willing to cut him if he says no."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/01/25/dougherty-tough-roster-calls-loom-packers/97039672/
"Matthews ($11.1 million) and Cobb ($9.5 million) are paid like stars. They have the second- and third-highest salaries on the Packers’ roster in 2017, so they have to produce big. But after the last two seasons, there’s good reason to question whether they’ll provide enough bang for that buck."
"With Matthews, the solution is another position change. He wants to play outside linebacker, but he’ll be 31 in May. His injuries keep accumulating — he needs shoulder surgery this offseason — and his pass rush skills are starting to decline (11½ sacks in his last 28 games).
So move him back inside. That’s where he helps this team most at this point in his career. Then draft a pass rusher high.
Cobb, though he can play any receiver position, he’s best in the slot. But as we saw this season, so is Jordy Nelson post-ACL surgery. And Nelson is better because he’s so much bigger (6-3).
So if I’m the Packers, I’m asking Cobb to cut his salary about in half, with the chance to earn back much of the money with a big season. To broach that, though, you have to be willing to cut him if he says no."
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Oh boy now you're about to have stirred up Saber on a completely separate issue (Matthews). Way to go.... (joke!)
Cobb is in the last year of his contract I thought. So yeah it's going to be back loaded and he is going to be set to make a lot of money. I am betting he would be willing to take a pay cut with an extension... maybe not. He seemed quite reasonable a few years ago when Jordy was extended and Cobb had not yet been. Reporters asked him when's his extension coming and he said something along the lines of, "I haven't done anything to deserve it." Now this is after he was playing pretty awesome so I think the guy either gets it or just knew that wasn't a tree worth barking up. He doesn't seem to come across to me as a guy who would say, no give me my 9.5 mil or I take a hike.
I am against cutting Cobb... I think that would leave us with a giant hole at WR that we woul dhave to fill in FA (fat chance TT goes for a CB and a WR... and the WR market isn't that impressive anyway) or draft high when we have so many needs on defense.
Matthews... I agree moving him inside is best. It will help his longevity and help GB figure out some youth for a good pass rush. But yes he is still being paid as the player he was 2014. Not the last 2 seasons. I think little happens from a monetary standpoing for Matthews. If we are looking to save some money Cobb is where it'll have to come from.
But do we need to? We will be 35 million under the cap before the increase (prob 10 mil). And by cutting Shields we get another 8 million. Sure, more salary cap helps but with TT in the front office I can't help but feel tepid about us having a lot of cap to spend in free agency
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Cap room doesn't win ball games.Dr. Brew said:
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Cobb has 2 years left on his contract. He signed a 4-year deal in 2015. He gets paid $8.6M base each of the next two years, with $900K of roster/workout bonuses each year. So we are paying him $19M over 2 years to stick around. That is a lot of money for a guy who is solid but not a difference maker.Dr. Brew said:
jurrassic
Footballguy
Sounds like Shields is pretty much gone. That gives them $9 million to spend. They need at least a pass rusher and a corner in FA. Would love to see them add another one in the draft. By that I mean, from someone else's team. I get that re-siging their free agents is technically "being active in free agency" but it isn't making the team better. I doubt they ask either Cobb or Matthews to take a pay cut. Someone to watch for is an extension of HaHa. Would be nice to extend him before he makes it to FA.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
There's another NFC team that has the same exact needs (pass rush, corners) on defense as GB. Only this team will draft right in front of GB. ?Man in the yellow hat said:
Should be interesting
Interseptopus
Footballguy
But is this as big of an issue now to have him take a cut? On paper it seems like a pretty good time to do so. He is underperforming his contract and a lot of players are asked to restructure with 2 years left, although it's typically done with 1 year left.
I'd love to have 2, 3, 4 more million to spend on this team. But do any of us trust Ted to go out and do what needs to be done? It's maddening for all of us to see it but Ted will do the same old same old... resign his own, bring in nobody, draft someone in round 1 who will bust, and we will go into the season as:
1. the youngest team in the NFL
2. the most under the cap in the NFL
3. a likely first round exit playoff team
It's like Herb Kohl has possessed Ted...
I wrote earlier, for almost the exact same price we are paying Randall and Shields next season we could have AJ Bouye and Brandon Carr... two of the top CBs available in FA at this point and possibly have the best 1-2 punch in the NFC...
They need to:
1. Sign a top CB (Bouye, Trumaine Johnson might be out of their price range, Claiborne, Hayden, Gilmore)
2. Sign a second CB (Carr) or draft one within their first 2 picks
3. Draft a RB within the first 2 picks
4. Sign a good pass rusher (DE or OLB)
5. Draft DE or OLB Round 3
Perry's market value is 8.5 million average annual salary... but he's one of the best on the market
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Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
Speed is not the issue. They both timed very well in the 40 for inside linebackers. Short area quickness and play recognition is more the issue. Martinez's knee injury didn't help either.
Interestingly, PFF has Green Bay's front seven ranked 9th in the league, putting the blame for the D squarely on the secondary. There is something to that.
That said, they had Jake Ryan the highest rated backer at 43rd overall. And in the front seven write up, Clay Matthews was the lowest rated Packer defender in the Packer front seven. He should definitely be moved inside and be in line for a pay cut.
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Pipes
Footballguy
I think it is. They are solid but they aren't running guys down like alot of team's LB's do. Blake Martinez ran a 4.71 that's why he fell in the draft. That's average at best for a LB. Ryan was a little better at 4.65. I do think that 40 times are overrated so I'm hopeful with a little more experience they will be "quicker" on the field. I'm not bagging on these guys but I agree with Saber...they are JAGs but they do have upside with their youth. JAG's are implying they are average which is an upgrade for that position from the last few years.
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
I don't know. Both of these guys had better forty times than the inside linebackers rated ahead of them in their draft. I think they're fine in that regard, and will play quicker with a bit more experience. I also believe Martinez was one of the highest rated coverage backers coming out of college. I'm optimistic on these guys.
The bigger issue is pass rush and secondary play.
To your point though, they could solve some of this with Clay Matthews playing inside. He was much faster reacting than anyone they've put out there lately. I think it would shore up that position a great deal.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah, I don't see Ted bringing in anybody to be honest. Even adequate corners would be a huge upgrade. The upshot is, seeing that he drafts for need in the first round, he's almost gotta go pass rusher or corner. Anyone with a pulse could be our best player in their respective role very quickly. They could take any defensive player right now, and as long as he's not a bust, I'd be thrilled. But that's been the problem. Ted just can't get out of his own way in the first round.
Please please please do not draft another versatile player and switch his position Ted. If you want a corner, draft a corner. If you want an end, draft an end.
Please please please do not draft another versatile player and switch his position Ted. If you want a corner, draft a corner. If you want an end, draft an end.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Clements leaving, Capers and Thompson staying.
Yay!
So expect nothing changed next year. Love how McCarthy used the injury excuse in the article too. But but we were motivaaaaaaated!
I expect the same #### defense next year.
No chance of a title until the defense gets fixed. I expect Ted to draft a DL and try to turn him into a pass rusher. I expect zero meaningful free agency moves. I expect this defense to finish in the bottom third of the league again.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000779365/article/tom-clements-to-leave-packers-capers-set-to-return
Yay!
So expect nothing changed next year. Love how McCarthy used the injury excuse in the article too. But but we were motivaaaaaaated!
I expect the same #### defense next year.
No chance of a title until the defense gets fixed. I expect Ted to draft a DL and try to turn him into a pass rusher. I expect zero meaningful free agency moves. I expect this defense to finish in the bottom third of the league again.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000779365/article/tom-clements-to-leave-packers-capers-set-to-return
Interseptopus
Footballguy
An honest question: how many top 4 teams in the NFL fire their coach and/or DC following such a successful season? Statistically, yes, the defense didn't do well. Yes, we had a lot of injuries. But we can't ignore how terrible some players played. Injured or not. Sherman played the whole season hurt. Couldn't really tell TBH.
I'm not as much "The sky is falling" but I can admit that it's probably incredibly foolish of me to think that the CB situation will be improved with a FA signing or two. At least with a CB1.
I hope that Thompson makes the moves that he needs to make however I am pretty much set on the following:
- Thompson signs a CB3 with the hopes that he can be a CB2
- Thompson will draft a DL and try to convert him to OLB, and/or draft a Safety and try to convert him to CB
- We will go into the year with Randall and Rollins as our CB1 and 2. I know... this can't happen, but it will. I'm almost certain. Ted won't give up on his top picks after just 2 seasons. In fact, I would see him bringing back Shields if cleared to play ahead of dumping him and signing someone else. Which I think is even worse because it's only a matter of time before Shields does get hurt.
If any or all of the above does not happen I will be ecstatic and wonder who is possessing Ted's body. I've gotten my hopes up in the past and when they're shattered I think to myself why I ever thought Ted would change after a decade of the same management style. It'll be same old same old, par for the course.
Our defense won't be as bad as this last year. I could see them finishing in the bottom 1/2. Not so much 1/3. But that's basically debating are they going to be bad or worse. I don't think that even matters at this point. We can't win a championship without a better defense. I think Dom can do a great job if Ted brought in some vets
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I was right with you until the bolded. I mean yeah if Ted stocked the defense with Von Miller and the like, sure Dom would look great. But given how we probably aren't bringing in anything more than depth type guys, and keeping Randall and Rollins most likely as our "corners" ....I don't expect much from Dom. I forget where I read it but basically it was stated that the Packers defense hasn't changed in years. Everyone knows their tendencies. There is a ton of tape. I don't expect much improvement at all from the D.
I think we were a top 8 team that made it to the top 4 because of one guy.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I think if we signed a CB1 (like Bouye), and even a CB2 (or drafted one), resigned Perry, found some LB help in FA, and brought in a DL to fill Peppers' role we would have a much better result from Dom Capers. I don't think we need Von Miller, although that would help. Dom's defensive scheme relies on vets to make quick reads and is very complicated. We know this. That's why it's puzzling why a build through the draft strategy GM has a defensive coordinator who relies on experience to be successful. What I meant by my statement was that Dom's scheme can be more successful with 4-5 year vets that we can bring in as FAs and can benefit from Dom's scheme.
Yes, assuming Ted brings no one else in, and if that's the case I wouldn't expect much of anything different from Dom. Same old same old, and that's what frustrates me; that's what has me on Sundays in September and October not even caring to watch. Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but it's where I am at this point. I know what the Packers will look like every season:
1. Rodgers will be great, but will be relied on to win games which may result in some mistakes
2. We won't be known for our running game
3. The defense will give up big plays. WRs will be wide open in the center of the field. Teams will pass at ease against us. "3rd and 21? no problem"
4. Our 1st round draft pick on defense will be a non-factor
5. We will go 10-6 and lose round 1 or 2 of the playoffs
Maybe Ted will sign a few key FAs... and maybe I'll get home and my mailbox will be filled with 100 dollar bills... we can dream
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
If you always do what you always did you always get what you always got. We were bridesmaids. Until something radical changes we will most likely remain bridesmaids. Nothing new under the sun.
The only hope is for a star to slide to us in the draft. Which happened in 2015...and Ted let him slide right on past and took HWY23.
The only hope is for a star to slide to us in the draft. Which happened in 2015...and Ted let him slide right on past and took HWY23.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I just read that 7 of the 10 worst Packers defensive playoff performances have come under Capers. But yeah...it's those darn injuries. Just bad luck I guess. 
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Packers need more consistency at cornerback
Uncanny. It's almost as if Ryan Wood is directly addressing someone in this thread.
Uncanny. It's almost as if Ryan Wood is directly addressing someone in this thread.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
So they had a guy with 4 previous concussions and ....hope??
It was obvious last season that Randall played super soft. Counting on him wasn't bad luck. He was just more of the same this year. He's not a very good ball player.
They pinned their hopes on this turd. They lost another shot at the super bowl because of that mistake.
It was obvious last season that Randall played super soft. Counting on him wasn't bad luck. He was just more of the same this year. He's not a very good ball player.
They pinned their hopes on this turd. They lost another shot at the super bowl because of that mistake.
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The Kerminator
Footballguy
You are letting your hatred for Randall blind you. Again, from the article:
The young trio combined to play 1,293 snaps in 2015, according to Pro Football Focus. They allowed four touchdown passes against six interceptions. None of the three allowed a passer rating above 87.6 or a completion percentage above 58.2.
Chicagon Hooligan has the right idea.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah, live in an echo chamber. Knock yourself out. Randall isn't good. The fact that you deny it doesn't make it false.
Pipes
Footballguy
Randall was ok last season. You think he was soft but pretty much everyone else didn't see that. However he regressed in a big way this year and was terrible. Hopefully it was because of injuries but that too is a troubling sign how many different injuries he had. That lends some credence to your theory that he's soft.
I completely agree with Shields. GB putting their faith in a #1 CB with a history of concussions and having your next 3 CBs as a converted safety, a football player who played 1 year of college, and a slow undrafted free agent who tries hard was risky at best. They got burned bad.
Putting people on ignore in this thread is stupid. Saber and Brews are passionate fans who add a lot to this discussion whether you agree or not. What doesn't add anything is someone posting a bunch of links on how this thread is better because of a bunch of ignored posts by those two. That adds nothing to the discussion and quite frankly is embarrassing.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I'm not going to argue that Randall had a good season or even an adequate season. He didn't. Neither did the rest of the DBs. But to blame TT or McCarthy for not having the defensive backfield cupboards stocked is not dealing with reality. You had a no. 1 corner in Shields. Despite his concussion history there is no way the Packers could foresee losing him for the season (and probably career) in game 1. And given the rookie years that Rollins and Randall had they felt they were OK on the other side of the field. The rest is just 20/20 hindsight. To judge Rollins and Randall based on 2 seasons is ludicrous. They both had decent rookie seasons. They regressed last year. May be due to injury, may be due to lack of ability to make that next step. I would guess the Packers have a better idea than someone sitting at home on his couch eating potato chips and posting on the FBGs forums what the case is. I trust their track record on knowing if it was due to injuries or lack of talent. To discard them at this point would be foolish. If that were the case we wouldn't have Crosby on the team. We wouldn't have Adams on the team. There are probably countless examples. Sometimes you just have to have patience with a player.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I'm not sure if the number of injuries is proof that a player is soft. You might even make the argument that he played through those injuries which kinda would show he isn't soft. We seem to forget that he had mid-season surgery for a groin injury. How long does it take to fully recover from that? The way I see it and it's just my observation/gut feeling is that the groin injury affected his ability to play which snowballed into a lack of confidence. Once you lose that confidence at that position you are toast. Can he get it back? I would think the Packers have a better idea than us. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
As far as putting people on ignore. No problems with Dr. Brew. I enjoy his insight. But Saber is pessimistic about everything regarding the Packers. TT sucks. McCarthy sucks. Capers sucks. Randall sucks. Everybody sucks except Rodgers. Wash, rinse, repeat. That contributes nothing because you could copy and paste his posts from one month to the next and get the same information.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Mmm yes how embarrassing.
For the record it's not a matter of "disagreeing," the posts just suck and there are too many of them. RIP
For the record it's not a matter of "disagreeing," the posts just suck and there are too many of them. RIP
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Watching him duck tackles is why he is soft. Nothing to do with injuries.KingPrawn said:
Pipes
Footballguy
Soft maybe a bad word. How about brittle? I hope it was just bad luck with having multiple injuries to different body parts but some guys are just more injury prone than others. I'm not ready to give up on Randall yet so hopefully we can just chalk it up to bad luck and he comes in strong next year. Now another season like this past one then the Packers have problems. Every fan base has fans like Saber. I admire his passion even if he goes off the deep end quite often...he's right sometimes too.KingPrawn said:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Pipes
Footballguy
http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/01/28/mcginn-ted-thompsons-formula-success-fizzles/97136720/
A great read for those of you unabashed TT supporters.
A great read for those of you unabashed TT supporters.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah Ted dropped the ball badly this year. Nobody will hold him accountable. I'm sure he's out scouting the Senior Bowl this week, which is apparently his Super Bowl. Gotta love those convertible players. Pretty disgusted after reading that article, when it points out all the guys they could have signed or traded for. The Packers should be ashamed of their defense, but they are a bunch of excuse makers at this point. The propaganda of having a successful season is getting really old.
