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2016 Oakland Raiders thread (1 Viewer)

Said it before and will say it again -- watching Joseph is like watching Lott. Same playing style, same approach to putting a hat on the player with the ball, same execution of the body for the play.

Amazing that Carr joint Tittle and Big Ben as the only QBs to go 500 yards and 4 TDs -- imagine how many more yards Carr actually threw that were called back by penalties. Was like we were fighting against two teams this weekend -- Tampa and ourselves.

Obviously our sloppiness is still holding us from our true potential. We got lucky that our lack of execution and loss of mental focus didn't cost us the game. Not sure why this still remains as a trait -- watching the presser after the game, Black Jack was pretty blase about it, almost dismissing it because of the win.

I get that you need to let players celebrate a hard-fought win (a win is a win, after all, and that's what it's truly about). But if I was the coach, I would not be celebrating this win -- I would be on the team like stank on a donkey about penalties, not smirking about it like Del Rio almost was at the presser. Let Carr enjoy the win, as he deserves it. But a lot of football left to play, and we're not going to end the season as successful as we seem now if we keep getting in our own way.

 
Hell of a game.  Raiders D still much in need of improvement if they want to be a serious playoff team. 

Sure, it's possible for a "cardiac kids" type of team to advance, but history has shown that a great offense can only take you so far.

That they have the ability to win on the road is impressive as hell.

But that they keep having to have late game heroics time and time again to do it  could be a sign of trouble. Against an elite defense in a playoff game, they're not as likely to pull that trick off. 

That all said, they sure are a fun team to watch. Carr is the truth, and Amari Cooper is a phenomenal player. 

 
massraider said:
Did Mike Evans play yesterday?
Click to expand...
They did a nice job against Evans.

But they still had to come from behind to win against a team that I would not consider elite.

Not slighting 5-0 on the road at all. But I also don't see a team that gets up and steps on the other team'a throat.  They're either playing in a ###-for tat shootout or playing from behind.

I'm thrilled to see them playing this well - I've been on the bandwagon since last year. Just trying to be fair in my evaluation. I think they have the pieces on defense to be better than they are and if they can put it together before season's end they'll be a serious playoff contender.

if they keep doing what they're doing they'll have a much harder time against top defensive teams. 

 
I have gone back and forth on the penalties.  

There isn't one culprit.  I lay blame at the feet of a lot of people.  

Del Rio--He gets the credit when the offense pulls off 4th and whatever plays, then he also gets blame when they can't get to the LOS when it's 1st and goal from the 1.  What are you doing, high-fiving?  First and foremost, the penalties are his fault.

Norton- add to ''communication breakdowns'' (which have improved).  But you get two illegal substitution penalties in a matter of minutes, with game on the line??  Yeah?  Hey, you miss it the first time, no problem, but after that it basically means your players didn't know where they were supposed to be based on the grouping you called for.  That's on you.  

Carr-Takes his sweet time pre-snap too often.  When was the last time you saw a quick snap?  Let's try one fellas, because right now, I am breathing a sigh of relief every time the ball is snapped cleanly.  No ####, I really am holding my breath every offensive snap waiting for a false start.  That intentional grounding was some gallows humor, funny if not so bad. Howard false starts, bizarrely the line judge doesn't call it and blow the play dead (he probably had sprained his arm from previous flag throwing).  Carr, fully expecting the penalty call that he saw himself, angrily throws the ball into the turf, expecting the play to be blown dead.  Of course, the play wasn't blown dead, and Carr gets called for grounding.   :lmao:   Also his job to be the field general, I'm just about done with them screwing around after every play, then Carr impatiently clapping his hands together, waiting for the snap.  That's part of your job, pal, Hudson has his own job to do, and needs a second himself.  

Crabtree-Ray Ray Armstrong is gone from this team, we don't need to fill the stupid-penalty-hot-head-guy role, thanks.  Be the reliable vet, we need that guy.  That taunting call was totally legit, that was some playground chump stuff right there.  

Look, we are going to continue to get Raider'd on the judgement calls.  PI, defensive holding, offensive holding, we aren't going to get the calls on a consistent basis.  That holding call on Penn was a joke, Mack gets held worse than that on almost every passing down.  But the self-inflicted penalties were the story yesterday, and the only reason the Bucs were in the game.  I can't even get worked up about calls I thought that were bad ones against us, because they pale in comparison to dumb stuff the team was doing. 

And this isn't like the rush defense, where we see/need improvement in increments.  Teams have/can fix this kind of crap quickly.  You don't need weeks to learn how to move the huddle to the LOS, or get the playcall in faster.  Every week we see this stuff is a failure on the part of the coaching staff.  And also the individual players.  Hold your dang stance, and know the snap count, just like in Pop Warner, you undisciplined boneheads.  

 
massraider said:
And this isn't like the rush defense, where we see/need improvement in increments.  Teams have/can fix this kind of crap quickly.  You don't need weeks to learn how to move the huddle to the LOS, or get the playcall in faster. 
Click to expand...
Said every Niner fan for 2+ seasons with Kaepernick. 

 
Steroid Monkey who chose the wrong team suffers another Anadrol-related injury:

Jared Veldheer needs surgery for partially torn triceps tendon


Posted by Darin Gantt on October 31, 2016, 1:36 PM EDT
According to Adam Schefter of ESPN, Cardinals left tackle Jared Veldheer needs surgery to repair a partially torn triceps tendon. He missed 10 weeks in after a similar surgery in 2013 when he was with the Raiders.

Veldheer left yesterday’s game with the Panthers and was wearing a heavy wrap on his right arm.
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In related news, Donald Penn is working on a new TD celebration 

Cap numbers:

Veldheer:

2017:  $10.25 mill  
2018:  $10.25 mill

Penn:

2017:  $6 mill

:moneybag:

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Said every Niner fan for 2+ seasons with Kaepernick. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, but you know why this comparison is bad.  One is a shooting guard trying to play QB, another is a born QB who lives for coaching, and the geeky minutiae of being a QB.  Carr will get it, and he'll have command of the offense, I have no doubt, but the time management need to be a team-wide focus.

My impatience with Carr in particular on this is pretty minor, it must be said.  Carr getting some delay of games make me as angry as I would be with Halle Berry would for clipping her toenails in bed with me.   :sleep:

Nonetheless, it's an issue, and part of the blame rest with him.  

 
massraider said:
Yeah, but you know why this comparison is bad.  One is a shooting guard trying to play QB, another is a born QB who lives for coaching, and the geeky minutiae of being a QB.  Carr will get it, and he'll have command of the offense, I have no doubt, but the time management need to be a team-wide focus.

My impatience with Carr in particular on this is pretty minor, it must be said.  Carr getting some delay of games make me as angry as I would be with Halle Berry would for clipping her toenails in bed with me.   :sleep:

Nonetheless, it's an issue, and part of the blame rest with him.  
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Oh yeah - don't get me wrong. There was a level of incompetence permeating the Niners from OC down that prevented them from getting this right. Wasn't saying it was apples to apples. 

But it's not always a simple fix, and as you said, the Raiders get enough "help" from the refs that they don't need to shoot themselves in the foot.

Definitely fixable though. 

As for Halle Berry  :wub:

 
Broncos week, and our strength on offense (Carr to Crabs and Cooper) goes up against the Broncos strength (Talib and Harris).  Forget about Seth Roberts this week, IMO, Roby is as good as a slot corner as there is in the league.  Don't think we'll see many targets here.  

The Falcons and Chargers both beat the Broncos the same way, with base offensive formations, and going after Marshall/Davis/Ward in coverage.  I think we'll see more of that 6 lineman package on offense, and might see more of Walford and Rivera than at any other time.  

Keep the nickel package off the field, and this week, to me, is a week where we should see Olawale, Walford, the backs, and even Rivera in the passing game.  

 
massraider said:
I have gone back and forth on the penalties.  

There isn't one culprit.  I lay blame at the feet of a lot of people.  

Del Rio--He gets the credit when the offense pulls off 4th and whatever plays, then he also gets blame when they can't get to the LOS when it's 1st and goal from the 1.  What are you doing, high-fiving?  First and foremost, the penalties are his fault.

Norton- add to ''communication breakdowns'' (which have improved).  But you get two illegal substitution penalties in a matter of minutes, with game on the line??  Yeah?  Hey, you miss it the first time, no problem, but after that it basically means your players didn't know where they were supposed to be based on the grouping you called for.  That's on you.  

Carr-Takes his sweet time pre-snap too often.  When was the last time you saw a quick snap?  Let's try one fellas, because right now, I am breathing a sigh of relief every time the ball is snapped cleanly.  No ####, I really am holding my breath every offensive snap waiting for a false start.  That intentional grounding was some gallows humor, funny if not so bad. Howard false starts, bizarrely the line judge doesn't call it and blow the play dead (he probably had sprained his arm from previous flag throwing).  Carr, fully expecting the penalty call that he saw himself, angrily throws the ball into the turf, expecting the play to be blown dead.  Of course, the play wasn't blown dead, and Carr gets called for grounding.   :lmao:   Also his job to be the field general, I'm just about done with them screwing around after every play, then Carr impatiently clapping his hands together, waiting for the snap.  That's part of your job, pal, Hudson has his own job to do, and needs a second himself.  

Crabtree-Ray Ray Armstrong is gone from this team, we don't need to fill the stupid-penalty-hot-head-guy role, thanks.  Be the reliable vet, we need that guy.  That taunting call was totally legit, that was some playground chump stuff right there.  

Look, we are going to continue to get Raider'd on the judgement calls.  PI, defensive holding, offensive holding, we aren't going to get the calls on a consistent basis.  That holding call on Penn was a joke, Mack gets held worse than that on almost every passing down.  But the self-inflicted penalties were the story yesterday, and the only reason the Bucs were in the game.  I can't even get worked up about calls I thought that were bad ones against us, because they pale in comparison to dumb stuff the team was doing. 

And this isn't like the rush defense, where we see/need improvement in increments.  Teams have/can fix this kind of crap quickly.  You don't need weeks to learn how to move the huddle to the LOS, or get the playcall in faster.  Every week we see this stuff is a failure on the part of the coaching staff.  And also the individual players.  Hold your dang stance, and know the snap count, just like in Pop Warner, you undisciplined boneheads.  
Click to expand...
Nice.

One big concern fans should have is that after performances like this refs are going to be even less inclined to give the Raiders the benefit of the doubt on iffy calls than they already are.

 
Chaka said:
Nice.

One big concern fans should have is that after performances like this refs are going to be even less inclined to give the Raiders the benefit of the doubt on iffy calls than they already are.
Click to expand...
Holy crap, is that even possible?  :confused:

They would have to start throwing preemptive flags. 

(((Raiders run out of the tunnel))) flag, too many Raiders on the field

(((Raiders break huddle ))) flag, illegal motion

(((Raiders start walking to the LOS))) flag, false start. 

:doh:  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Holy crap, is that even possible?  :confused:

They would have to start throwing preemptive flags. 

(((Raiders run out of the tunnel))) flag, too many Raiders on the field

(((Raiders break huddle ))) flag, illegal motion

(((Raiders start walking to the LOS))) flag, false start. 

:doh:  
Click to expand...
:lmao:

Sadly I don't think you're too far off.

 
BTW, was anyone else soiling their jockeys when Del Rio called going for it on 4th and 4?

I mean, sure, Black Jack gets the benefit of the doubt as his gambles have paid off more than not this year, but this was pretty gutsy as it they didn't convert, would have given TB some pretty favorable field position to set up winning the game.

No one questions decisions when they work out, but in the moment, did anyone think this was almost too big of a gamble with the game on the line?

I like our never say die attitude and the balls to put trust in the team to execute. But worry that we are setting ourselves up to fall at a crucial moment in the season if we get too laissez faire about these kinds of calls. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
BTW, was anyone else soiling their jockeys when Del Rio called going for it on 4th and 4?

I mean, sure, Black Jack gets the benefit of the doubt as his gambles have paid off more than not this year, but this was pretty gutsy as it they didn't convert, would have given TB some pretty favorable field position to set up winning the game.

No one questions decisions when they work out, but in the moment, did anyone think this was almost too big of a gamble with the game on the line?

I like our never say die attitude and the balls to put trust in the team to execute. But worry that we are setting ourselves up to fall at a crucial moment in the season if we get too laissez faire about these kinds of calls. 
Click to expand...
I had zero problems with that call at the time and I wouldn't have had a problem if it failed.

From week 1 JDR made it clear that he is putting emphasis on building confidence which, IMO, is as much about the next few seasons (decade if it works out) as it is about this season.

Just going for it is a boost for the players, and converting so many times will resonate through the years.

Good on JDR (a guy I have been vocally luke warm on, at best, since he was hired).

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
BTW, was anyone else soiling their jockeys when Del Rio called going for it on 4th and 4?

I mean, sure, Black Jack gets the benefit of the doubt as his gambles have paid off more than not this year, but this was pretty gutsy as it they didn't convert, would have given TB some pretty favorable field position to set up winning the game.

No one questions decisions when they work out, but in the moment, did anyone think this was almost too big of a gamble with the game on the line?

I like our never say die attitude and the balls to put trust in the team to execute. But worry that we are setting ourselves up to fall at a crucial moment in the season if we get too laissez faire about these kinds of calls. 
Click to expand...
Given the context of the game, there wasn't enough time left to do anything else IMO.

punt and the game is likely a tie. 

So go for it and see what happens.

if there's more time on the clock I think they punt. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
BTW, was anyone else soiling their jockeys when Del Rio called going for it on 4th and 4?

I mean, sure, Black Jack gets the benefit of the doubt as his gambles have paid off more than not this year, but this was pretty gutsy as it they didn't convert, would have given TB some pretty favorable field position to set up winning the game.

No one questions decisions when they work out, but in the moment, did anyone think this was almost too big of a gamble with the game on the line?

I like our never say die attitude and the balls to put trust in the team to execute. But worry that we are setting ourselves up to fall at a crucial moment in the season if we get too laissez faire about these kinds of calls. 
Click to expand...
That was an easier one.  Anything else, you are losing or tying.  That was the only play to iwn the game, aside from rolling SeaBass out there again, and I think we agree that wasn't the move.  

 
massraider said:
Carr-Takes his sweet time pre-snap too often.  When was the last time you saw a quick snap?  Let's try one fellas, because right now, I am breathing a sigh of relief every time the ball is snapped cleanly.  
Click to expand...


I was surprised to see they did rush one snap, i think. It was after an iffy catch so Carr rushed everyone up to the line and ran a play so dodge the challenge. It might have been on a Roberts catch.

While there is a lot of stuff to improve on, as individuals and a team, they are correcting small things. They failed to rush a play following a challengeable big play earlier this year, getting better at that. Cooper made another insane sideline grab late in the game, even though he got both feet down he made sure of it again before going out of bounds.

Slight but significant progress for a young team

 
All good points, Chaka, Hot Sauce, and Mass. There is still a good deal of risk/reward with that call, but you're right, if you are going to take a gamble, that's the time to do it. Guess I wonder what will or what would have happened if all the gambles we've taken this year didn't pan out. Hindsight is always 20/20 regardless.

FWIW in terms of additional game notes, also loved to see Rivera involved in the script again. 

 
I hope we do not see another drop like that Cooper one though. He did everything superbly on that play, and from what i could see woulda had another TD on top of a massive day, but his hands failed him

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
FWIW in terms of additional game notes, also loved to see Rivera involved in the script again. 
Click to expand...
Good call especially with DEN coming to town. We should have Walford and Rivera running wild through the DEN D

I can't remember what we did but don't forget we beat the Donks last year and i don't see them as any better than they were

 
Was frustrating to see us drive deep into Bucs territory only to see penalty after penalty take us back for what seemed to still be a very makable 50 yarder for Jano only to see he him hook it into the wind. One of many sequences where panalties took easy points off the board. There are the types of mistakes we just can't get away with against better teams like our division rival Broncos.

 
massraider said:
That was an easier one.  Anything else, you are losing or tying.  That was the only play to iwn the game, aside from rolling SeaBass out there again, and I think we agree that wasn't the move.  
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I agree.  I was running through the scenarios when 4th down came up and this was the best decision.  

 
Raiderfan32904 said:
Was frustrating to see us drive deep into Bucs territory only to see penalty after penalty take us back for what seemed to still be a very makable 50 yarder for Jano only to see he him hook it into the wind. One of many sequences where panalties took easy points off the board. There are the types of mistakes we just can't get away with against better teams like our division rival Broncos.
Click to expand...
Read this and recalled the dialogue in the Pool on whether Seabass was worth a first round pick. This doesn't sway one way or another, but does strike me that I can't think of another kicker who people think a 50 yarder is routine like it pretty much is for Janikowski. That's pretty awesome.

Going to be a huge test for us this weekend. Not just because of the bi-annual slugfest our games with a hated divisional rival usually are, or because they are the defending SB champs, and not just because a win solidifies AFC West that much more (as well as the divisional game tiebreaker scenario). And not just because DEN's D is still a force to be reckoned with, and they have the offensive skill players to make us suffer.

All of these are important. But the biggest angle for me is whether we can beat the quality, winning teams in the NFL. Arguably we've failed the two biggest tests so far vs. ATL and KC. And while BAL has its talent, they are still a very-much losing team this year.

We need to beat the teams that can beat us, and not just squeak by the teams we're better than on paper.

 
Just noticed that only three teams have scored more points than the Raiders this year to date -- Falcons, Pats, and Chargers.

And so I'm fairly showing the other side of the coin, 7 teams have allowed more points: Jets, Chargers, Browns, Colts, 9ers, Falcons, and Saints.

 
Interesting to see what we do with the CBs this week.

Does Hayden stay in the slot, and Carrie move in as an outside CB?

Oh, snap, maybe my man Dexter McDonald will be active this week!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bruno2 said:
Great read. Thanks. Carr is still developing on the field but he's become the leader the Raiders have sorely missed since Gannon was around. I wouldn't trade Carr for any other up and coming QB in the league. 
Click to expand...
he just feels like a Raider...a perfect marriage 

 
Sarlakticacid said:
https://twitter.com/JeffDooleyPFF/status/793843209231331328

NFL leaders in deep-ball catch rate: 1. Amari Cooper, OAK 2. AJ Green, CIN 3. TY Hilton, IND 4. Antonio Brown, PIT 5. Marvin Jones, DET
Click to expand...
I mentioned Carr's accuracy a page or two back in this thread. I have also noticed he doesn't see the entire field very well. But he is still developing. He has the intangibles and just needs to continue working hard. What I really love about Carr is he elevates his play when the game is on the line.

One thing I constantly hear is that he grew up watching his bother's struggles behind those horrible Texan olines. It appears one thing he learned very well is to get rid of the ball to avoid the hit. Fine with me. Talent like his doesn't grow on trees.

 
Regarding that Andy Benoit article, Andy is OK. He's not Skip Bayless.

But this article smacks of "HOT TAKE" clickbait to me.

And MMQB is not above that, and a writer who wants to up his profile, this is a good way.   It's really so obvious to me, I am not even bothered by it a little bit.  

Think about this:

How many articles have we read like this about other young QBs?  Do you recall articles like this about Andrew Luck?  By the way, Carr's numbers take a back seat to no one to start his career, and he was in a terrible offense for the first 16 games, with no talent. Luck is a more than fair comparison.

 17 TDs, 3 picks, all kinds of heroics this year, clutch ###### throw after clutch ###### throw, and we have this guy writing that the Raiders cannot continue to win if he plays like he has.

Umm, no.  If the Raiders weren't getting presnap fouls all game long, we would be averaging 38 points a game. Carr has been let down by his teammates far, FAR more than he has let them down with his own mistakes.  

So, why this article?  It's the perfect time to write a contrarian view, AND the perfect player.  Carr plays for the Raiders, a team people like to root against, the most exciting team in football this year, and a fan base that is really really vocal online. And we get Denver on prime time this week.

 And he's Derek Carr.  There's still a little bit of doubt with Carr. Not among Raider Nation. But among the talent evaluators, draft geeks, and otherwise people who whiffed on him.   Have you heard a word about the yards per attempt stat since it was shoved down our throat his rookie year??  Have any of you read doubting articles Carson Wentz, who is nickel and diming his way down the field?   Does anyone else find that interesting?  

Confirmation bias:  looking for anything to confirm what they already believed.  Talent evaluators that get paid to write about it, most don't do their own work. Especially high profile ones.  They watched that USC game, and that was it for Carr, he was skittish, couldn't handle pressure, oh, and he played in a spread offense.  I really believe that's the way it is draft media.

You know what I remember? NFLN or ESPN had a series on real NFL scouts, and one was a Giant scout, at a Fresno game. Some dang WAC game, Utah State, some hinterland of college football.  And the guy was speaking real casual about Carr, because he was a Giants scout, they have a QB, they aren't drafting one.  And his comment was:

"He's a pro QB, playing in college. You can tell he's been coached well all his life, and he's a leader.  He's NFL ready, right now."

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I mentioned Carr's accuracy a page or two back in this thread. I have also noticed he doesn't see the entire field very well. But he is still developing. He has the intangibles and just needs to continue working hard. What I really love about Carr is he elevates his play when the game is on the line.

One thing I constantly hear is that he grew up watching his bother's struggles behind those horrible Texan olines. It appears one thing he learned very well is to get rid of the ball to avoid the hit. Fine with me. Talent like his doesn't grow on trees.
Click to expand...
This is his 3rd year in the league. Drooling at thinking of his potential peak abilities. Re: His talent. Add to that his access and length of time in and around the league

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I mentioned Carr's accuracy a page or two back in this thread. I have also noticed he doesn't see the entire field very well. But he is still developing. He has the intangibles and just needs to continue working hard. What I really love about Carr is he elevates his play when the game is on the line.

One thing I constantly hear is that he grew up watching his bother's struggles behind those horrible Texan olines. It appears one thing he learned very well is to get rid of the ball to avoid the hit. Fine with me. Talent like his doesn't grow on trees.
Click to expand...
Snake like

 
I've been as big a critic of Carr as anyone since he was drafted (I was against the pick). He's still no Brady or Manning, but this season he's playing at a prime Favre level. I'll take that all day long. Can't wait to see what he does with a stud defense or RB or OC.

 
Ninja Goro week 8 - his finest yet.

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2016/11/2/13498532/quick-hits-notes-analysis-of-raiders-week-8-win-in-tampa

This part caught my eye, for Chaka in particular. This mean vs median dynamic is probably the reason why our running game hasn't felt or looked as good as its ranking. Also explains where Lat has excelled relative to the twin rooks.

Running game

  • 23 rushes for 115 yards, 5.0 avg
  • 2 rushes, 18 yards negated by Penalty
  • Boom/Bust type running again. 11 rushing of 2 yards or less (3 for negative yardage). 3 rushes of 10+ yards (19, 20, 28)
  • Average rush yardage was 5.0, but Median rush yardage was 3
  • As expected, Latatavius is less explosive but more reliable/uniform in yardage. DeAndre/Jalen get big chunks but also many much shorter gains. Compared here :

 


LATS


DE/J


ATT


11


12


YARDS


48


67


AVG


4.4


5.6


MEDIAN


4


2.5


STDEV


5.3


8.7

 
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