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2017 ACC Sports (1 Viewer)

been away, so just getting to post about the ACCT...

Duke's 2nd half against UNC in the semis was the most satisfying Duke-watching experience i've had in a long time, short of the NCAA title games of 2010 and 2015.

 
Really like the State hire. Can he get Smith to stay?
I am cautiously optimistic about the hire.

No way he gets Smith to stay, and he shouldn't even try. He should be advising him to go like everyone else. I'm more concerned about him getting the rest of the players to stay, keeping the incoming recruit, and getting into some late recruiting for this class. He is billed as a great recruiter. We'll see.

 
Really like the State hire.
I am cautiously optimistic about the hire.
Keatts won the press conference. He hit all the right points:

  • Loves passionate fans who want/expect to win
  • Academics are very important
  • Players will be best conditioned team in the country (good thing Anya was a senior this year...)
  • Players will play hard at all times
  • Players will play for the front of the jersey
  • He doesn't care what the blues are doing, focused on putting the best team possible on the floor and getting results
  • He has been a winner everywhere he has coached and that will continue at State
If he can walk the walk, State is in good shape. :wolf:  

 
Unc got a very good whistle down the stretch, but Arkansas #### the bed 3 straight possessions once they went up 5 points.  Just awful offense and coaching 

 
Unc got a very good whistle down the stretch, but Arkansas #### the bed 3 straight possessions once they went up 5 points.  Just awful offense and coaching 
Arkansas got some late calls too.  Hicks got fouled hard on his dunk to get them within one w two min left, should've been shooting an and-one. And the Jackson clearout after a dropback pass on the break happens twenty times a game and literally never gets called. 

I'm worried Berrys not 100%, he looked awful

Good luck with SC 

 
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Just an incredible choke job. Kudos to SC but Duke absolutely wilted in front of a hostile crowd. When they got the fast break dunk to cut it to 1, I knew Duke was in huge trouble. 

 
No surprise at all.   Such a one dimensional team.    They went cold from 3 and they have little to fall back on.   Another year with a bench of mcdonalds all americans that never get on the court.   

 
No surprise at all.   Such a one dimensional team.    They went cold from 3 and they have little to fall back on.   Another year with a bench of mcdonalds all americans that never get on the court.   
They're 38% from 3 tonight.  Above their season average. They lost because of turnovers and lack of toughness in a tough environment,. 

 
They lost because they gave South Carolina about eight more possessions than their average would dictate.  And most of Duke's turnovers were not of the "forced" variety (I'll be interested to see how many steals South Carolina was awarded), but just silly charges, airmailing the ball to opponents, travels, and other such goofiness.  Not having a point guard is what killed them, not below-average three-point shooting.  And Kennard having his worst game of the season didn't help either.  

Meanwhile, nice job by the ACC.  :lol:    How ridiculously embarrassing, and of course gives mouth-breathing Big XII homers a ton to cheer about.  Nine teams and one (naturally UNC) makes the Sweet Sixteen, and only then on a complete choke job by Arkansas?  Geez. 

 
Actually below. :)  
That last miss put them below the average, but again, that's not why they lost. Actually a very similar loss to Zona in 2011. A "good" (sort of) first half was negated by a statistical anomaly (2011 was Williams making some silly 3 pointers, tonight was the turnovers) and then a 2nd half where a few momentum plays caused Duke's buttholes to pucker up. They just rolled right over and once SC got momentum, it was over.

Lots of Duke fans already blaming the refs and the fact that SC got a home game.  When you let up 65 points in a half to the the 136th rated offense team in the country, you can't blame venue or officiating.

Kennard gonna enter the draft with his tail between his legs after that one. Kid got punked tonight.

 
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They lost because they gave South Carolina about eight more possessions than their average would dictate.  And most of Duke's turnovers were not of the "forced" variety (I'll be interested to see how many steals South Carolina was awarded), but just silly charges, airmailing the ball to opponents, travels, and other such goofiness.  Not having a point guard is what killed them, not below-average three-point shooting.  And Kennard having his worst game of the season didn't help either.  

Meanwhile, nice job by the ACC.  :lol:    How ridiculously embarrassing, and of course gives mouth-breathing Big XII homers a ton to cheer about.  Nine teams and one (naturally UNC) makes the Sweet Sixteen, and only then on a complete choke job by Arkansas?  Geez. 
I guess my point is that we know duke couldn't defend.  This was one of those games they needed to shoot their way out of and they couldn't.   Just shooting their average against a very good d against which they couldn't generate other forms of offense wasn't going to cut it.   

 
I guess my point is that we know duke couldn't defend.  This was one of those games they needed to shoot their way out of and they couldn't.   Just shooting their average against a very good d against which they couldn't generate other forms of offense wasn't going to cut it.   
Enh, I guess.  Once they went down in the second half I knew the game was lost; there are multiple reasons why including the fact that Duke should have had a halftime lead of about 12 (maybe more) instead of 7, but didn't due to all the turnovers.  You knew South Carolina wasn't going to shoot as poorly as they did in the second half.  I just read that giving up 65 points in a half is the most for any Duke team since my sophomore year of college, 1989.  South Carolina didn't look like a 67% free throw shooting team as they paraded to the stripe to make something like 30 FTs in the second half, but you can't blame them for that.  They had a great gameplan and blew Duke off the court.  Well-deserved.    

 
Duke was just too limited offensively and didn't bring much to the table in the second half as far as defense.

Kennard was a non-factor and is every bit of the reason why Duke was successful for most of the season...especially when Grayson went into full meltdown mode earlier this season.

It was nice to see Tatum finally round into form late in the season...but without Kennard, the engine just didn't work.

He really was the x-factor...whenever things broke down...all season long...Kennard bailed them out.

He couldn't tonight...he picked up too many fouls, especially defensively.

They needed another solid option...and just didn't have one.

If they had a true point...then maybe it's not as glaring...

If they had interior defense, then maybe a few more rebounds and stops would've been the difference.

Oh well...looks like the entire ACC underperformed...absolutely embarrassing across the board.

I had UNC penciled in my Championship game...along with Gonzaga.  Should make for an interesting ride the rest of the way.
 

Thankfully I've got a few days to lick my wounds over this early loss...cause at this very moment, I just don't want to see any more basketball.  I know that'll change in a few days, but right now...this just sucks.

 
I know it's not apples-to-apples, but this Duke team really reminded of of 1994 UNC - returning core, highly regarded freshmen, high expectations, but never quite clicked. Pulled off an ACC tourney title and then had a disappointing 2nd round loss.

On the other side, what is the general feeling about Leonard Hamilton at this point. I know he has one ACC title in his pocket, but I just feel like there's quite a few coaches that would have done more with the FSU roster.

 
I know it's not apples-to-apples, but this Duke team really reminded of of 1994 UNC - returning core, highly regarded freshmen, high expectations, but never quite clicked. Pulled off an ACC tourney title and then had a disappointing 2nd round loss.

On the other side, what is the general feeling about Leonard Hamilton at this point. I know he has one ACC title in his pocket, but I just feel like there's quite a few coaches that would have done more with the FSU roster.
I feel like at this point he is a guy who took a football school which almost always put their second focus on baseball and turned it into a top-40ish basketball program that used to be one of the worst hoops programs in the major conferences. 

But now that a foundation and baseline of sorts has been set I don't think he can take the program to the next level, which to me should be something like a final four every 15 years with the occasional sweet 16 mixed in. 

But they aren't ever going to fire him so it's all moot. 

 
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I feel like at this point he is a guy who took a football school which almost always put their second focus on baseball and turned it into a top-40ish basketball program that used to be one of the worst hoops programs in the major conferences. 

But now that a foundation and baseline of sorts has been set I don't think he can take the program to the next level, which to me should be something like a final four every 15 years with the occasional sweet 16 mixed in. 

But they aren't ever going to fire him so it's all moot. 
Careful...that sounds a lot like the description a lot of Pitt fans had for Jamie Dixon and when they got tired of just going to the Tournament every year and never making the Final Four, they made it uncomfortable enough for him to feel the need to leave.  That worked out really well for them this year (and next year looks to be way, way worse).

 
Careful...that sounds a lot like the description a lot of Pitt fans had for Jamie Dixon and when they got tired of just going to the Tournament every year and never making the Final Four, they made it uncomfortable enough for him to feel the need to leave.  That worked out really well for them this year (and next year looks to be way, way worse).
We hadn't been to the tourney since 2012, although I will concede we haven't had a losing record since 2005 either, with nine 20 win seasons mixed in there. Something to be said for constantly being pretty competitive I guess. 

 
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Pretty excited about Coach Keatts at State.  Feels like a great hire.  You never know when there is so little data at a major college level but he hits all the check marks and has been a winner wherever he has been.  And he's also known as a great recruiter.

I wouldn't put my money on a year 1 turnaround like he did at UNCW but I think we'll like where he takes us.

 
We hadn't been to the tourney since 2012, although I will concede we haven't had a losing record since 2005 either. Something to be said for constantly being pretty competitive I guess. 
It sure beats the alternative..which somehow my Pitt brethern failed to comprehend. Guess they weren't old enough to remember the days we'd spend most of February looking forward to the announcement of NIT bids to see if we got in.

 
Heels exorcised three recent demons last night.  The mirror image with the ending of the national championship was the most obvious of course. But they've also lost regional finals recently to Kentucky (in 2011, also as a slight favorite, when Kentucky couldn't miss from three) and after losing a PG (2012 of course). 

Berry wasn't lost for good like Marshall was, but it seems pretty clear to me that hasn't been close to 100% since turning his right ankle against Texas Southern. Apparently he turned it again in practice the day before the regional final after looking OK against Butler, and then sprained the left ankle in the first half vs Kentucky.  The offense hasn't been the same since the first injury.  Thank God the rebounding was still there and the defense stepped it up but IMO their title hopes depend on how much he can recover this week.

 
What are the odds Roy retires if UNC wins the title?
Anything is possible, especially when you're dealing with a cranky old man, but I haven't seen or heard any suggestion of it.  He's got a pretty good thing going right now with this "elite program that can't pull one and done lottery types, so it gets second tier guys that end up staying several years" bit. The Izzo model, if you will.

 
Anything is possible, especially when you're dealing with a cranky old man, but I haven't seen or heard any suggestion of it.  He's got a pretty good thing going right now with this "elite program that can't pull one and done lottery types, so it gets second tier guys that end up staying several years" bit. The Izzo model, if you will.
I haven't heard anything, either. I just know he is 66, and his program may face some penalties before next season. Given those things, I figured it was at least possible he would walk away on a high note if they win.

 
I haven't heard anything, either. I just know he is 66, and his program may face some penalties before next season. Given those things, I figured it was at least possible he would walk away on a high note if they win.
Are these penalties going to be less or more severe than the ones that were going to make UNC a sub .500 football team for years to come?

 
Giles gone. Probably makes sense for him if he's still a mid first round pick. I honestly didn't see many flashes of a first round pick so can't blame him but the flip side is coming back and becoming a top 5 pick would make him more money. 

Tatum, Giles, Jeter and even Obi all gone.  Going to be a short  bench next year.

 
Not much reason to transfer when you don't have to go to class and someone else does the work.   :bag:
Scandal broke around the same time that the streak without transfers started.  If anything I'd say the players in question were doing more work than their peers at other big time programs because of the added scrutiny.

 
Roy has done a terrific job with this group. 2 final 4's speaks for itself.

I'm interested to see what happens when the current group cycles out.  While they weren't lottery talents, UNC's entire starting 5 is junior/senior McD's All Americans. That simply doesn't happen anymore  And I don't think that's the result of Roy being some sort of genius in selecting players. I think its a combination of some luck and some lack of development. (in certain areas)  All those guys have undoubtedly gotten better during their 3/4 years in CH, but none of them (other than Jackson) have really developed any marketable NBA skills. Not saying Pinson would have developed a jump shot or Hicks would have developed some post moves had they gone elsewhere, but the fact that they haven't is at least a little bit of a knock on the UNC staff.

At the end of the day, Roy's job is to win college basketball games, and he obviously does that extremely well. His players get better (Brice Johnson was a great success story, as is Maye, who most people, including myself, thought was a total joke 18 months ago) but he doesn't really feature players with NBA type skill sets. And I think that it would naive to think that isn't hurting him on the recruiting trail. Roy isn't making a conscious decision to not pursue one and done caliber players. He just isn't landing them. And if he doesn't land Kevin Knox this year the current recruiting class is going to be pretty weak. Once this current team fully cycles out (Berry and Pinson could obviously hang for another year. Bradley probably will as well) the talent level will drop off quickly. Their current recruiting class consists of a borderline top 25 guy (Felton, obviously a legacy who likely wasn't ever going anywhere else) and three 3 star recruits outside the top 200. That's not "Roy is picking guys for his system", that's "This is all Roy could get"

But again, they're in the final 4 and are probably the favorites this weekend, so who really gives a damn about what their team will look like 2 years from now.

 
Roy has done a terrific job with this group. 2 final 4's speaks for itself.

I'm interested to see what happens when the current group cycles out.  While they weren't lottery talents, UNC's entire starting 5 is junior/senior McD's All Americans. That simply doesn't happen anymore  And I don't think that's the result of Roy being some sort of genius in selecting players. I think its a combination of some luck and some lack of development. (in certain areas)  All those guys have undoubtedly gotten better during their 3/4 years in CH, but none of them (other than Jackson) have really developed any marketable NBA skills. Not saying Pinson would have developed a jump shot or Hicks would have developed some post moves had they gone elsewhere, but the fact that they haven't is at least a little bit of a knock on the UNC staff.

At the end of the day, Roy's job is to win college basketball games, and he obviously does that extremely well. His players get better (Brice Johnson was a great success story, as is Maye, who most people, including myself, thought was a total joke 18 months ago) but he doesn't really feature players with NBA type skill sets. And I think that it would naive to think that isn't hurting him on the recruiting trail. Roy isn't making a conscious decision to not pursue one and done caliber players. He just isn't landing them. And if he doesn't land Kevin Knox this year the current recruiting class is going to be pretty weak. Once this current team fully cycles out (Berry and Pinson could obviously hang for another year. Bradley probably will as well) the talent level will drop off quickly. Their current recruiting class consists of a borderline top 25 guy (Felton, obviously a legacy who likely wasn't ever going anywhere else) and three 3 star recruits outside the top 200. That's not "Roy is picking guys for his system", that's "This is all Roy could get"

But again, they're in the final 4 and are probably the favorites this weekend, so who really gives a damn about what their team will look like 2 years from now.
On the bolded- one premise of the Post article is that while he recruits those players, he doesn't promise them particular roles or playing time to the extent that coaches do. I can't say how much of that is truth and how much is just sugar-coating his failure to land them for other reasons (Ingram was supposedly worried about a postseason suspension).  But FWIW he did seem to stick by it with Wright and Williams, who both got plenty of minutes but weren't heavily featured or shoehorned into NBA audition roles.

I'm not sure if there will be that much of a dropoff talent-wise. They will probably dip a bit next year unless they swipe Knox, and might have a true down year after 2017-18 when they lose Berry, Pinson and probably Bradley. But they already have two commits ranked in the 50s nationally in the 2018 class.  Guys like Woods, Robinson and Williams were top 100 recruits who presumably will be around four years. And he'll probably get a boost going forward from this two year run. The bigger variables are the black cloud of the NCAA investigation and his age.

Also IMO the real accomplishment is back to back regular season ACC champs and 1 seeds, not the Final Fours. The tournament is a total crapshoot.  It's awesome that our number came up two years in a row but it's not really evidence that he's doing something special.

 
I'm not sure if there will be that much of a dropoff talent-wise. They will probably dip a bit next year unless they swipe Knox, and might have a true down year after 2017-18 when they lose Berry, Pinson and probably Bradley. But they already have two commits ranked in the 50s nationally in the 2018 class.  Guys like Woods, Robinson and Williams were top 100 recruits who presumably will be around four years. And he'll probably get a boost going forward from this two year run. The bigger variables are the black cloud of the NCAA investigation and his age.


Its certainly possible, but its probably unlikely. While ranking recruits is obviously not a science, the difference between top 20 guys (all of which this year's team is) and top 50 guys is often (not always, obviously) a pretty big deal. And Roy's best teams have always been deep in top 20 guys (or in the case of the title teams, top 10 guys) who hung around until their junior/senior years.  Maybe Roy will hit home runs with guys like Black and White like he did with Brice and Page, (or develop the other guys you mentioned like Woods and Robinson) but I'd be at least a little surprised. And even if he does, he still needs to re-stack the cupboard with some big guys that are REALLY good on the offensive glass (like Brice, Meeks and Hicks are/were) or drastically alter his play style.

It will be interesting to watch. Does he stick around and do it or retire in a year or 2? I don't put any stock into the NCAA stuff, as it seems pretty clear to me that UNC is going to avoid any significant punishment. I don't buy the idea that the NCAA is coming back with a vengeance because UNC got greedy and tried to avoid ANY punishment. Too much $$ involved to hammer a blue blood program.

 
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I think Roy is obviously one of the best MBB HCs of all time. While no one would disagree with that, it still feels like he is somewhat underrated. I have a lot of respect for him, but I wish he would retire already...

 
Looks like HB2 is gone, or will be soon
If they have the votes, HB2 will be gone, but the new legislation still contains some of the negatives associated with HB2. It isn't clear to me if the new legislation will satisfy all of the organizations boycotting the state. I wouldn't assume it will as it stands currently.

 
I think Roy is obviously one of the best MBB HCs of all time. While no one would disagree with that, it still feels like he is somewhat underrated. I have a lot of respect for him, but I wish he would retire already...
Agreed.  He's been at UNC 14 years and won the ACC regular season outright 7 times and tied for it an 8th.  He's been to the Final Four 7 times with them and won it twice with a chance at a 3rd this weekend.

I could see him walking away if he wins again this year.

 
Yea, Roy did OK, but just imagine what Izzo could have done with this team the last two years. ( :sarcasm: . Just a little joke among some friends about years of stories on how Izzo was so great and Roy just won on talent.)

 

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