2017 ACC Sports (1 Viewer)

[NMYMND]

Roy has done a terrific job with this group. 2 final 4's speaks for itself.

I'm interested to see what happens when the current group cycles out.  While they weren't lottery talents, UNC's entire starting 5 is junior/senior McD's All Americans. That simply doesn't happen anymore  And I don't think that's the result of Roy being some sort of genius in selecting players. I think its a combination of some luck and some lack of development. (in certain areas)  All those guys have undoubtedly gotten better during their 3/4 years in CH, but none of them (other than Jackson) have really developed any marketable NBA skills. Not saying Pinson would have developed a jump shot or Hicks would have developed some post moves had they gone elsewhere, but the fact that they haven't is at least a little bit of a knock on the UNC staff.

At the end of the day, Roy's job is to win college basketball games, and he obviously does that extremely well. His players get better (Brice Johnson was a great success story, as is Maye, who most people, including myself, thought was a total joke 18 months ago) but he doesn't really feature players with NBA type skill sets. And I think that it would naive to think that isn't hurting him on the recruiting trail. Roy isn't making a conscious decision to not pursue one and done caliber players. He just isn't landing them. And if he doesn't land Kevin Knox this year the current recruiting class is going to be pretty weak. Once this current team fully cycles out (Berry and Pinson could obviously hang for another year. Bradley probably will as well) the talent level will drop off quickly. Their current recruiting class consists of a borderline top 25 guy (Felton, obviously a legacy who likely wasn't ever going anywhere else) and three 3 star recruits outside the top 200. That's not "Roy is picking guys for his system", that's "This is all Roy could get"

But again, they're in the final 4 and are probably the favorites this weekend, so who really gives a damn about what their team will look like 2 years from now.

So If Maye was considered a joke, why dismiss the possibility that one of the two incoming 3 star big men might become serviceable in a few years. Not saying it will happen, but ... There was a running line among UNC fans for the past several weeks on comparing Maye's stats to Giles, Bolden, Jeter, etc. Obviously forget Giles, because if healthy, he's a monster, but at some point, maybe some more of these players on the Delaurier/Killeya-Jones level may look at Maye's development and Roy's willingness to give multiple players a chance deep into the season and actually take a chance on UNC instead of riding the bench somewhere else. 

Do see a potential slog coming for a few years, but I would put it more at a 2006 level than at a 2010 level. The one lesson Roy seems to have learned from 2010-2013 is you need ballhandlers, and the upcoming rosters will have plenty of those. It's conceivable that you might be hard-pressed not to have two PGs on the court at a time for UNC. I dare say he's almost moving, or being forced by recruiting,toward more of a Duke style with mainly ballhandlers and shooters on the court with one big man.

 

[TLEF316]

Well, the mocking of Maye was more about his high school "highlight" tape (lots of Jaw dropping outlet passes) and some of "what the hell is that guy doing on a roster?" plays that occurred during his freshman year (and lets be honest...the fact that he is a goofy looking white dude with Eugene Levy's eye brows)  than his star rating but I get your point. 

I do think working 1 or 2 lower ranked guys into the rotation (surrounded by McD's guys, often upper classmen) is a different animal than building a team entirely comprised of guys outside the top 20, but we shall see.

 

[BassNBrew]

Scandal broke around the same time that the streak without transfers started.  If anything I'd say the players in question were doing more work than their peers at other big time programs because of the added scrutiny.

I was making a joke...obviously unsuccessfully.

 

[BassNBrew]

If they have the votes, HB2 will be gone, but the new legislation still contains some of the negatives associated with HB2. It isn't clear to me if the new legislation will satisfy all of the organizations boycotting the state. I wouldn't assume it will as it stands currently.

It passed.  Now we wait.  

Personally I think it's enough because it was more about show than principal for most of these leagues.  The state was stupid to draw attention to itself in the first place.  They'll (NCAA, NBA) be able to say look at what we did to cause change and in the case of the NBA get back to expanding their footprint in China and the NCAA exploiting athletes.

 

[oso diablo]

i disagree with TLEF about recruiting rankings. I don't think there's much difference between the average guy in the 20s and the average guy in the 50s.

eta to clarify that this is just my opinion

 

[TLEF316]

i disagree with TLEF about recruiting rankings. I don't think there's much difference between the average guy in the 20s and the average guy in the 50s.

eta to clarify that this is just my opinion

Not quite what I said. Obviously its going to vary from class to class, but what I said was there's usually a big difference between top 20 recruits and top 50 recruits (so say 21-50). 21-30 vs say 41-50 is very much a crap-shoot but that's really not what we're talking about here. (and honestly, you could easily dismiss a "drop off" of recruiting between those 2 levels to be a coach selecting guys for his system or just having a different opinion about player skill than the ranking "experts"). That's not what happening at UNC. (just looking at the current 2017 and 2018 classes vs the guys that will be leaving in the next 2 years)

If you look at the starters/6th men of Roy's 2 title teams,(sorry if I'm not remembering UNC's lineups exactly)  8 of the 12 (Felton, McCants, May, M. Williams, Lawson, Ellington, Hansbrough, Ed Davis) were top 10 players in their respective classes. Of the other 4, Bobby Frasor(41st in his class per Scout. May have gotten a little McD's push due to being a UNC commit)  and Jawad Williams (no ranking for him, as SCOUT/rivals weren't around when he entered college) were Mcd's AA's. The other 2 guys were Jackie Manuel (again, don't know where he was ranked) and Danny Green (24th in his class).

Obviously any coach needs talent to win at that level, but if recruiting doesn't turn around for UNC in the next year, Roy (or whoever else is the coach) is going to have to win with a very different level of athlete than they are used to. Not saying they can't do it (Roy's a HOF coach for a reason) but it will be a major adjustment.

And yes, I'm very aware that Duke may be forced to deal with this very same issue when K hangs it up, depending on who takes over. (and its not like K's title teams were full of scrubs either) There's some really good potential replacements, but with the way K is recruiting right now (targeting too many one and dones IMO) they run the risk of the cupboard being pretty bare when Capel/Collins/Wojo/Hurley/whoever takes over.

 

[sporthenry]

It's funny the different narratives you can spin. Earlier this year, people gave Duke crap for saying they lacked depth despite the many McD AAs on their bench. Fair criticism and I think K plays too short of a bench. 

Somehow Roy with 6 McDs including 2 seniors and 3 juniors is a great coach for getting the most out of this team. He has plenty of talent. Perhaps he does recruit the undesirables but I think that's been more a factor of luck than anything else. No sure fire one and doners but I'm sure some of these guys didn't expect to still be in college. Now the lack of transfers is impressive and probably a function of his style. Give him credit on that but I don't think he's unearthing a ton of under the radar recruits and turning them into superstars. 

 

[oso diablo]

thanks TLEF. yeah, i had misunderstood what you meant.

 

[TLEF316]

Bolden following Jeter and Obi out the door as Duke's 3rd transfer. Not at all surprising but man is that a bad look for Duke.  Obviously a lot of crap happened (injuries, K's surgery, Allen tripping, etc) but K botched this season so badly.

 

[sporthenry]

Bolden following Jeter and Obi out the door as Duke's 3rd transfer. Not at all surprising but man is that a bad look for Duke.  Obviously a lot of crap happened (injuries, K's surgery, Allen tripping, etc) but K botched this season so badly.

Being reported now as considering but I'm sure he's out. Did read him and Capel had a good relationship but who knows. If Kennard and Allen both leave, Duke could be in for a tough year. Don't think they both go but not a great offseason. K might have figured out recruiting in the one and done era but keeping them seems harder.  Roy and Cal both go deep whereas K barely ever goes more than 7 deep. I I was just too hurt to be much of a factor. I thought Jeter could turn into that upperclassmen glue guy but seems like it's tough to keep those guys. Jones and Jefferson were both McD AAs who became role players.  Seems like those Duke role players are becoming a thing of the past.  I'm sure it's not just one thing but getting recruited over all the time coupled with this generation has changed things.  I give Roy all the credit for keeping his players.  Like I said before, I don't think Roy purposely targets 4-year players but I think he does great to keep everyone happy if they all happen to be around for 4 years. 

I guess it could be fixed with Duval and Bamba or Knox. But that would be 4 of the top 10 guys. Maybe it happens but seems like they're playing with fire. And I will say with one and domes and transfers, it makes it less interesting. No continuity and guys out the door the minute they step on campus. Obviously impacts Duke more than others but feel that way about all of college basketball. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Have an awesome time tonight, fellow Tar Heel fans.  I don't know about you, but win or lose I'm counting my blessings.  Two straight years with no gap between the Heels' run in the tournament and Opening Day? That's livin' right.

 

[NMYMND]

Have an awesome time tonight, fellow Tar Heel fans.  I don't know about you, but win or lose I'm counting my blessings.  Two straight years with no gap between the Heels' run in the tournament and Opening Day? That's livin' right.

Minus the excitement for baseball, that's where I am . A loss would sting - again - but back-to-back finals is still nothing to discount. Thought in 2016, as the tourney unfolded, I was never nervous about Providence, Indiana, ND or Syracuse. Then when we got the final, I thought it was a 50-50 game. This year, been nervous about every game since Arkansas - with good reason. Now ahead of the final, I'm pretty calm. Not saying we're going to win. Just don't have the anxiety that I had a year ago. No idea what that means, because a Gonazga win would not be an upset. They are a good team and would be a deserving champ.

 

[MattFancy]

Have an awesome time tonight, fellow Tar Heel fans.  I don't know about you, but win or lose I'm counting my blessings.  Two straight years with no gap between the Heels' run in the tournament and Opening Day? That's livin' right.

I'm so nervous tonight!

 

[apalmer]

It sure beats the alternative..which somehow my Pitt brethern failed to comprehend. Guess they weren't old enough to remember the days we'd spend most of February looking forward to the announcement of NIT bids to see if we got in.

That NIT daydream now appears to be unrealistically high.  With graduation and guys transferring out, Pitt's returning scholarship players  will now have a grand total of 7.1 ppg and 6.5 rpg (led by Ryan Luther's 5.7 and 3.6). Good times ahead.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Minus the excitement for baseball, that's where I am . A loss would sting - again - but back-to-back finals is still nothing to discount. Thought in 2016, as the tourney unfolded, I was never nervous about Providence, Indiana, ND or Syracuse. Then when we got the final, I thought it was a 50-50 game. This year, been nervous about every game since Arkansas - with good reason. Now ahead of the final, I'm pretty calm. Not saying we're going to win. Just don't have the anxiety that I had a year ago. No idea what that means, because a Gonazga win would not be an upset. They are a good team and would be a deserving champ.

Yeah that's where I am.  Only thing that would really sting would be another loss that comes on the final possession, because I'd feel bad for our guys who had to go through that twice.

i also expect to be so drunk and tired after opening day + pregame at the bar that I'll be mostly numb.

 

[TLEF316]

Obviously rooting hard for Gonzaga tonight but UNC would undoubtedly be a deserving champ.  While I firmly believe UNC did everything they could to block/delay any potential punishment regarding the academic scandal, (within the set guidelines of the process, which I think are pretty silly) the kids on this team had nothing to do with it and all seem like decent dudes.

 

[TLEF316]

Looks like Bolden changed his mind. Probably a good thing, since him leaving looked really bad and they weren't getting Bamba anyway.  The kid has talent (based on reports from the all-star circuit last year and the fact that he was a starter before his early season injury. Looked awful 95% of the time he played) but needs to grow up and stay healthy. Hopefully it all works out.

Apparently Allen is leaning towards coming back as well. Kennard still on the fence.  As good as Kennard was on offense this year, him and Allen both back would leave Duke with all the same defensive problems they had this year (only without Jefferson and Jones, which makes things even worse). I'm kinda hoping Duke only keeps one of them, even if that means Knox ends up at UNC as a result.  I believe in Gary Trent Jr on both sides of the ball.

Gotta get Duval though.

 

[TobiasFunke]

For my fellow Tar Heel fans, my two favorite images from the internets last night if you haven't seen them:  team selfie and drone video of people streaming out of bars and running to Franklin and Columbia at the final buzzer.  Name the old guy is fun too.

 

[BassNBrew]

Thank you UNC for defending the integrity of the conference and preventing us from being the laughing stock of the basketball world. 

 

[Tau837]

Thank you UNC for defending the integrity of the conference and preventing us from being the laughing stock of the basketball world. 

Putting UNC and integrity into the same sentence is a bit much. 

 

[BassNBrew]

Putting UNC and integrity into the same sentence is a bit much. 

Ok ? we'll leave it at thanking UNC for bringing some much needed pride and honor to the ACC and helping the nation forget the abysmal performance of the rest of the conference.  Thank you Tarheels. ?????‍???

 

[Tau837]

Ok ? we'll leave it at thanking UNC for bringing some much needed pride and honor to the ACC and helping the nation forget the abysmal performance of the rest of the conference.  Thank you Tarheels. ?????‍???

We? You can leave it at that if you like, but I don't see any pride or honor in it for the ACC. I'm not thanking them for anything.

Sure, fans like @ConstruxBoy and @TobiasFunke can take pride in it, because they have made it clear over the years of the scandal that they don't care. Same for John Swofford.

But I couldn't disagree more with the idea that they brought pride and honor to the ACC. :X  

 

[TobiasFunke]

I've said this before, but here is more evidence that JJ Redick is good people and should not be on any UNC fan's list of hated Dukies:

JJ Redick‏Verified account @JJRedick

Congrats to UNC. Seriously. Also- every player on the court tonight should have been paid. Scholarships don't count. Don't @ me.

He might be my favorite at this point.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

So UNC and NC State are leaving the ACC if the ACC boycotts the state of NC again.  Stupid politicians.

https://twitter.com/AlexRoseNews/status/852158404269355008

 

[Capella]

So UNC and NC State are leaving the ACC if the ACC boycotts the state of NC again.  Stupid politicians.

https://twitter.com/AlexRoseNews/status/852158404269355008

Sure they will

North Carolina government as it currently stands has to be the biggest banana republic in American history. 

 

[BassNBrew]

So UNC and NC State are leaving the ACC if the ACC boycotts the state of NC again.  Stupid politicians.

https://twitter.com/AlexRoseNews/status/852158404269355008

Sure they will

North Carolina government as it currently stands has to be the biggest banana republic in American history. 

Personally I think they should have prohibited broadcasting ACC games in the state.  Not that I agree with HB2, but I don't agree with letting corrupt institutions push you around.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

ACC opening weekend highilights in 2018:

Sept. 1: Louisville vs Bama, Orlando

Sept. 1: Miami vs. LSU, Arlington

Sept. 3: VT at FSU

 

[Worm]

ACC opening weekend highilights in 2018:

Sept. 1: Louisville vs Bama, Orlando

Sept. 1: Miami vs. LSU, Arlington

Sept. 3: VT at FSU

A little off topic, but NC State is opening this upcoming year against South Carolina in Charlotte at the Panthers stadium.  The cheapest tickets are like $80 for crappy upper levels.  That's more than Panthers face value.  Dumb.

 

[Capella]

Louisville stepping way out of their league there with no Lamar. Woof. 

 

[BassNBrew]

A little off topic, but NC State is opening this upcoming year against South Carolina in Charlotte at the Panthers stadium.  The cheapest tickets are like $80 for crappy upper levels.  That's more than Panthers face value.  Dumb.

South Carolina likes their football.  If it was basketball in the Hornets arena the SC fans would be saying the same thing.

 

[Yenrub]

Louisville stepping way out of their league there with no Lamar. Woof. 

What's wrong with Lamar?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

What's wrong with Lamar?

It's a 2018 game.  Guess he's assuming Lamar goes pro after this year.

 

[Worm]

South Carolina likes their football.  If it was basketball in the Hornets arena the SC fans would be saying the same thing.

I feel fairly confident there will be a swath of empty seats.  I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[Capella]

Highly doubt Lamar is back. Likely a first-rounder next year. 

 

[AAABatteries]

GT vs. Tennessee - 9/4 at Mercedes Benz stadium 

 

[AAABatteries]

Oops - just saw that's 2018 - carry on

 

[Tau837]

Highly doubt Lamar is back. Likely a first-rounder next year. 

I highly doubt it. His athletic abilities are impressive, his QB abilties are pretty overrated.

 

[Capella]

I highly doubt it. His athletic abilities are impressive, his QB abilties are pretty overrated.

He's no worse of a passer than Vick was. He'll be gone top-10.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Honestly, I hope Roy never retires.

Today is the 14th anniversary of UNC hiring Roy Williams. Congratulations on 14 years of UNC mediocrity!

 

[tdoss]

Today is the 14th anniversary of UNC hiring Roy Williams. Congratulations on 14 years of UNC mediocrity!

And strangely enough...today marks 20 years of some of the most egregious violations in collegiate sports history.

 

[TobiasFunke]

And strangely enough...today marks 20 years of some of the most egregious violations in collegiate sports history.

 If this were true wouldn't that be bad news for you? 

After all you hope Roy never retires, and if the NCAA finds "egregious violations" it might encourage him to retire sooner

 

[BassNBrew]

And strangely enough...today marks 20 years of some of the most egregious losses and underachievement in collegiate sports history.

Fixed this for you

 

[Tau837]

He's no worse of a passer than Vick was. He'll be gone top-10.

We'll see. It seems to me that Vick was faster and had a stronger arm. His frame was also more compact than Lamar's, which may have helped him to absorb hits better. 

 

[Tau837]

Keatts won the press conference. He hit all the right points:

• Loves passionate fans who want/expect to win
  
• Academics are very important
  
• Players will be best conditioned team in the country (good thing Anya was a senior this year...)
  
• Players will play hard at all times
  
• Players will play for the front of the jersey
  
• He doesn't care what the blues are doing, focused on putting the best team possible on the floor and getting results
  
• He has been a winner everywhere he has coached and that will continue at State
  

If he can walk the walk, State is in good shape.  

Keatts was hired on March 17. Since then:

• Rising SO PF Kapita and rising JR SF Rowan went pro - not good
  
• Rising 6th SR SG Henderson was denied 6th year by NCAA - not good
  
• Sole class of 17 recruit Thomas Allen decommitted and later committed to... Nebraska (good indication of how bare the cupboard was that Gott left for Keatts) - no impact, since Keatts did not appear to prioritize him
  
• Keatts secured new commitments from FR PG Batts, SR grad transfers SG/SF Freeman and SG Hunt, rising SO transfer SG Daniels and rising JR transfer SG/SF Bryce - all good
  
• Yurtseven pulled out of NBA draft and returned for his SO year - very good, particularly since the front court was looking thin if both Kapita and Y7 departed
  

Sorry to lose Kapita and Rowan (and Henderson), but if all had stayed, would have been 2 scholarship short of everything listed above.

Still 1 scholarship remaining for 2017-18.

I must say, IMO Keatts has been impressive so far. The NCAA decision on Henderson was out of his control, and some attrition (Kapita, Rowan) was expected with the coaching change. The fact that he signed 5 players in 10 weeks, and also helped to some degree in convincing Y7 to stay, is impressive.

I look forward to the product on the floor and to future recruiting classes once he has full recruiting cycles for State.

Meanwhile, prepare for retirement K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim, Larranago, and Hamilton.  

 

 

[CabinFever]

Duke is about to become the overall favorite next season....

Hopefully this loaded roster will actually stay healthy and pan out 

 

[TLEF316]

Duke is about to become the overall favorite next season....

Hopefully this loaded roster will actually stay healthy and pan out 

After last year I won't ever get sucked in by a preseason super team scenario again. I would have bet my life that last year's team wouldn't lose 9 games (regardless of injuries) at this time last year.

And Duke lost last year mostly because of defense. And a rotation of 5 freshman, 2 sophomores that barely played and Grayson Allen (undoubtedly a below average defender) doesn't inspire much confidence. 

Bagley is VERY good though. Hopefully it gets done.

 

[BassNBrew]

Duke is about to become the overall favorite next season....

Hopefully this loaded roster will actually stay healthy and pan out 

Missed the news, did they find another scholar-athlete that meets their admission criteria?

 

[CabinFever]

Missed the news, did they find another scholar-athlete that meets their admission criteria?

That's being ironed out right now. Unfortunately it's not as easy to get them in, say Swahili classes like that other school 8 miles down the road...so it takes a little more time ?

 

[TobiasFunke]

That's being ironed out right now. Unfortunately it's not as easy to get them in, say Swahili classes like that other school 8 miles down the road...so it takes a little more time ?

I'm all for silly UNC academic scandal jokes from the haters and wannabes who can't handle the Heels'' recent overwhelming success, but you gotta do better than claiming the academic upper hand when it comes to one-and-dones who generally don't even pretend they're there to go to school. Especially from fans of Duke, a program whose most famous one-and-done thinks the earth is flat and LeBron James is a bad teammate.

 

[CabinFever]

Kyrie Irving is Albert Einstein compared to what has gone through your program lol