What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (2 Viewers)

Hankmoody said:
Maybe I should say "I'm glad I was 21 and a ####### back in an era when phones and the Internet didn't exist".  I get the optics of it, but social justice makes no accommodations for fair and appropriate punishment.  The consequences of making mistakes today is way, way beyond the impact many of those mistakes have.  A man makes a crude comment about a woman and next thing you know his career is gone. There are countless stories of how a single post, blog, tweet, or text has cost people careers and gotten them harrassed beyond belief.

What he did was abhorrent, no doubt, but we're talking about a 21 year old kid with who knows what kind of role modeling in his formative years?  We can't lock these kids up and throw away the keys, that's why our society is as screwed as it is. 

Off my soapbox.  I'm happy the Raiders are getting good football players to put on the Silver and Black and score or prevent many touchdowns.
Click to expand...
Great points, and I can't really say I disagree with you on a lot of what you're saying. For whatever reason though, I feel especially strong about this situation, which is more likely a reflection of something personal about me.

I appreciate your response, as it was definitely helpful for me to hear your thoughts.

 
Yeah I wasn't coming after you personally at all, glad you didn't take it that way.  It's just a hot button issue for me.

 
Seen multiple poor grades given to the Raiders (along with the Bengals, and teams like the Bears who seemed to overpay without a lot of return). Good to see a somewhat positive one from Silva.

The more I think about the draft, the more I like what Reggie did from a positional standpoint -- he was clearly focused on those needs, and drafted the player they were most excited about to fill out depth and potential starters at those positions. Reggie has much more credentials than I do at evaluating long term potential for talent, and seeing those diamonds in the rough, so hope some of these guys will hit.

I definitely think we had more of a Black Jack, gambling type of approach here -- Conley and Zamora in terms of potential character (and impending legal) issues; Sharpe and Vanderdoes in terms of potential physical issues (will a blurry eye and weight issues compound problems at the NFL level); even gambling that some development of freak athletes would turn out better in the long run over more proven/higher graded prospects (Melifonwu over Cunningham; Vanderdoes over D'Onta Foreman; Sharpe over Banner).

But like that we got players who will compete for depth at very needed positions and hopefully plug gaps in our starting core in the years to come.

 
Moonshine said:
Great points, and I can't really say I disagree with you on a lot of what you're saying. For whatever reason though, I feel especially strong about this situation, which is more likely a reflection of something personal about me.

I appreciate your response, as it was definitely helpful for me to hear your thoughts.
Click to expand...
and im guessing that the other players in the Raiders locker room will set him straight 

 
I will never understand moral authority circle jerk regarding Zamora. The wildest part is that many of these people actually watched the video in question. If the crime is so heinous why would you want to watch it? 

 
Vision6 said:
I will never understand moral authority circle jerk regarding Zamora. The wildest part is that many of these people actually watched the video in question. If the crime is so heinous why would you want to watch it? 
Click to expand...
to see if its as bad as reported ...at least thats why i watched it....it was pretty harsh...and what bothers me the most is its probably a regular occurance...id say he does that on a regular basis 

 
Eff that dog beater.

Sketchy updates to the Conley situation. Lawyer now saying they had a consensual sex act. Assume that means a chicken job. Hopefully zero evidence on her hoo hoo or this pick could be completely #####ed. 6-8 weeks before we hear whether the police will come after him, so at least two months of distraction and anxiety, best case.

Here is some thought food regarding Cuningham vs. Lee: https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/nguyen-marquel-lee-better-player-zach-cunningham/.

 
Probably my favorite draft in terms of not really a player I was unthrilled with, like Mario or Jihad.  

My least favorite pick was Shalom, just because a safety that plays special teams isn't sexy.

 
massraider said:
Probably my favorite draft in terms of not really a player I was unthrilled with, like Mario or Jihad.  

My least favorite pick was Shalom, just because a safety that plays special teams isn't sexy.
Click to expand...
I don't get this, most of them play special teams at some point.  Many tOSU starters do.  Do you mean Shalom will only play special teams and we can get guys like that in UDFA? 

 
Moonshine said:
Be honest though, you better believe if your employers were aware of an instance, much less video evidence, that you were a physically abusive towards people or animals, even just once, the likelihood of you maintaining the same career potential is practically nil.

I wanted no part of Mixon either. Talent or not, I'd rather we hold ourselves to a higher standard and pass on players with evident behavioral issues like this. 

Obviously we're getting a mid-round talent as a UDFA, so the value is undeniable, but when it comes to some behaviors I'm not sure a second chance is necessarily appropriate. You had a chance to be a multi millionaire doing something millions of people envy, and you blew it by doing something that wasn't only idiotic, but evil. Good luck with whatever you move onto next, but in my opinion you blew your chance for a life some people dream of.

I'm sure I'm in the minority so I'll drop it after this. His value as a football player is evident, I just think our brand name and pedigree would benefit from shying away from these kinds of people. I want players we can be proud of saying we signed, not players like this.
Click to expand...
No need for Mixon once we signed Beastmode. Taking Hood later as our future replacement for Beastmode was brilliant. We signed a 2 year deal with him but it really is a one year deal. I can't imagine us paying him that much in year two for a RB of his age and running style. I am not expecting him to be 100% of what we last remember him being. I am guessing 80% is prob legit to expect (which is still helpful) and hopeful for 90%. I think he can hit 90% more so because of his excitement, desire and time off to heal up.... but that body will break down. We are not talking about Brady who rarely sees the ground but a guy who has a car crash (usually causing them) on every freaking play. Hood has that bruiser type of running style and came real cheap.... I actually forgot about him but think we got a steal that late on him. Hood will be able to step into that bruiser role if Lynch gets hurt and should be able to grow into the role for next year when we move on from Lynch. I was actually leaning towards wanting Mixon instead of Lynch for the long term but love how this panned out.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Seen multiple poor grades given to the Raiders (along with the Bengals, and teams like the Bears who seemed to overpay without a lot of return). Good to see a somewhat positive one from Silva.

The more I think about the draft, the more I like what Reggie did from a positional standpoint -- he was clearly focused on those needs, and drafted the player they were most excited about to fill out depth and potential starters at those positions. Reggie has much more credentials than I do at evaluating long term potential for talent, and seeing those diamonds in the rough, so hope some of these guys will hit.

I definitely think we had more of a Black Jack, gambling type of approach here -- Conley and Zamora in terms of potential character (and impending legal) issues; Sharpe and Vanderdoes in terms of potential physical issues (will a blurry eye and weight issues compound problems at the NFL level); even gambling that some development of freak athletes would turn out better in the long run over more proven/higher graded prospects (Melifonwu over Cunningham; Vanderdoes over D'Onta Foreman; Sharpe over Banner).

But like that we got players who will compete for depth at very needed positions and hopefully plug gaps in our starting core in the years to come.
Click to expand...
Well, these guys don't fall to us where they did without some sort of "?" above their head. Conley would have been a top 15 without any doubt if he did not have the whole rape thing come out.

Obi over Cunningham was a bit of a head scratch for me but from what I have seen- they LOVE Obi. Apparently he was a target for round 1- they loved him so much but when Conley fell there was too much value there to pick up once they were comfy on the rape side of things. I like what we are getting in Obi to fix big problems in our secondary- namely he has the size to cover pass catching TE's which have killed us over the years. I think many of us (including me) were looking for an athletic LB who could fill that for us but I think Obi will do that instead. On top of the size he has the athletic ability to cover WR's as well. If Obi pans out the way that Mac apparently believes him to be, we will have a great pair of safeties back there for years to come.

From what I remember of Vanderdoes, I don't think he ever had any weight issues until coming back from the injury. For a guy like that- when you aren't active like you normally are and then you end up eating like you normally do- yea, you are going to gain and he was slow to come back from that but injury and weight wise but I see that all hand in hand. He did get the weight off big time though and was explosive in the senior bowl.

I think Mac does a good job of seeing the reasons why guys fall and figuring out if that is a good or bad reason. Of course, it is still a gamble because if it wasn't then someone would have taken them already before they got to us. Overall, I don't see a gamble not worth making for the value of where we were picking them- with the only exception being Conley but that gamble seems to have been hedged with a good amount of due diligence.

 
Hankmoody said:
I don't get this, most of them play special teams at some point.  Many tOSU starters do.  Do you mean Shalom will only play special teams and we can get guys like that in UDFA? 
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had no problem with the pick, I dunno if there's upside.  I said that to illustrate how much I liked the picks, it's ntipicking.  I would ahve liked to keep Trawick for example, and drafted another WR or something.  

If we had taken Zamora instead, and signed Shalom, I would have liked it better.  We got both, so it's  a minor point.  All the late round guys have valid paths to roster/PS spots.  

 
Chadstroma said:
Well, these guys don't fall to us where they did without some sort of "?" above their head. Conley would have been a top 15 without any doubt if he did not have the whole rape thing come out.
Click to expand...
Yes.  As fans we want potential starters/superstars with each pick (upside), and we got that with almost every pick.  Biut you don't get upside late without questions.

 
By the way, if everyone is scared of Sharp's slow feet, find some video of Jylan Ware.  Looks like a basketball player.  

 
As much as this feels both weird and strange to see the Raiders looking like extremely strong contenders to some of the pundits, I prefer flying below the radar and being an underdog. Too superstitious to see this kind of thing:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000806159/article/nfl-power-rankings-raiders-rise-giants-fall-after-2017-draft

That said, I know that no matter how far this team has come, and how far we still have to go, I think we'd all be disappointed if we took a step back this year instead of continuing the forward trajectory.

 
Reggie was on Sirius yesterday and mentioned several times how excited they were to draft Treyvon Hester. So that is someone to watch in preseason.

He also said they have signed a big cropped of UFAs, 17 IIRC. Anyone got a list?

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
As much as this feels both weird and strange to see the Raiders looking like extremely strong contenders to some of the pundits, I prefer flying below the radar and being an underdog. Too superstitious to see this kind of thing:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000806159/article/nfl-power-rankings-raiders-rise-giants-fall-after-2017-draft

That said, I know that no matter how far this team has come, and how far we still have to go, I think we'd all be disappointed if we took a step back this year instead of continuing the forward trajectory.
Click to expand...
Feels odd after 15 years of pain. Scary though because it's kind of like your wife being pregnant. So much awesome there in the future but if something goes wrong it will break your heart.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Realistically, duplicating or bettering the 12-4 record might be a stretch. I'm going into the season with these expectations:

10-6 or better should be good enough to get in the playoffs. 

Win the AFC West. That means beating KC at least once. 

Much improved defense. 

Offense and Carr continue to progress and be one of the best offenses in the NFL. 

Win at least one playoff game! 

 
Bruno2 said:
Realistically, duplicating or bettering the 12-4 record might be a stretch. I'm going into the season with these expectations:

10-6 or better should be good enough to get in the playoffs. 

Win the AFC West. That means beating KC at least once. 

Much improved defense. 

Offense and Carr continue to progress and be one of the best offenses in the NFL. 

Win at least one playoff game! 
Click to expand...
Results I'd be happy with:

A winning record

beating KC

Better D

Results that will beat the excitement of last year:

Beating KC in their house
Beating the NE Gringos
More than 11 wins
A playoff win
Winning the Divison

Results that would cause me not to be able to focus on anything or be able to sit still for 2 minutes:

Beat KC twice
Sweep the division
Top seed in playoffs
Crush the Gringos
Multiple playoff wins
Cooper goes super stud in the best 3rd year WR season we have ever seen

 

 
You guys are going to be disappointed in Obi. I have seen every one of his college games, multiple times. Shocked at how much love he was getting leading to the draft. Poor tackler, undisciplined, and takes horrendous angles. Rooting for his success because he is a Husky but I just don't see it.

 
Bruno2 said:
Realistically, duplicating or bettering the 12-4 record might be a stretch. I'm going into the season with these expectations:

10-6 or better should be good enough to get in the playoffs. 

Win the AFC West. That means beating KC at least once. 

Much improved defense. 

Offense and Carr continue to progress and be one of the best offenses in the NFL. 

Win at least one playoff game! 
Click to expand...
I agree with this. We have to remember that last year was amazing in that so many lucky breaks went our way with refs, bouncing balls, whatever. Odds will even out and 2017 is going to be a grind but we have a solid team to grind it out!

 
Their schedule is much tougher this year, and the Broncos look to be improved. As much I as hate to say it, winning the division feels a bit optimistic. Possible, but optimistic. 

 
i love how people wont just say what they really want to say ...either out of fear of jinxing the team or they dont want to set themselves up for disappointment ...well i think the Raiders are going to be even greater than last year...and that they could win it all this year ...they now know that they can win games...they believe in the system and the Leader Carr...they have that Raider swagger back and a great nucleus to rally around...i say to the rest of the teams in the league ...BRING IT 

 
Pharaoh Brown - TE - Raiders


Raiders signed Oregon TE Pharaoh Brown.
Brown (6’5/246) suffered a traumatic knee injury in 2014 that nearly resulted in the amputation of his right leg. After undergoing three surgeries and missing all of 2015, Brown returned to post a 33-426-5 (12.9 YPR) receiving line as a fifth-year senior, appearing in nine games. Brown was accused of multiple acts of violence at Oregon, two against teammates and one against a woman involving alleged strangulation. On the field, Brown was plagued by drops and lost athleticism after the leg injury. He ran 4.83 at Oregon’s Pro Day. Brown is a long shot to become a meaningful NFL contributor.
 
 
Guess our thing about signing high character guys is pretty much over with the recent moves.  This one is particularly surprising.
 
ICON211 said:
Pharaoh Brown - TE - Raiders


Raiders signed Oregon TE Pharaoh Brown.
Brown (6’5/246) suffered a traumatic knee injury in 2014 that nearly resulted in the amputation of his right leg. After undergoing three surgeries and missing all of 2015, Brown returned to post a 33-426-5 (12.9 YPR) receiving line as a fifth-year senior, appearing in nine games. Brown was accused of multiple acts of violence at Oregon, two against teammates and one against a woman involving alleged strangulation. On the field, Brown was plagued by drops and lost athleticism after the leg injury. He ran 4.83 at Oregon’s Pro Day. Brown is a long shot to become a meaningful NFL contributor.
 
 
Guess our thing about signing high character guys is pretty much over with the recent moves.  This one is particularly surprising.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this one is kind of baffling to me, if only because I think we're fairly set on the position, unless they are looking for explosive athletes to fill other roles -- which would make this signing make some sense.

Also makes sense in terms of giving players a deserved second chance. We can argue whether he deserves that chance (I don't know of his situation but the strangulation thing sounds terrible), but this is a guy that nearly had to get his leg amputated, so being back to form and giving him another shot from a physical standpoint is nice for him, I guess.

This quote focuses on Oregon's Pro Day, which I don't know much about, but Brown had a pretty good showing at the combine, leading all TEs in the class in bench press reps and vertical jump. Still a raw prospect, and maybe a "what the heck" signing to see if he can add depth somewhere. Hope he keeps his head (and legs) bolted on straight when he dons the Silver and Black.

 
I do think there has been a shift in the organization's attitude. The first clue was hosting Mixon prior to the draft. I respected the Raiders' stance on DV. I am very ambivalent about their new approach.  

 
I have completely turned away from thinking anything about Aldon Smith and whether or not he can return -- have moved well down the line from Aldon and if somehow he is reinstated, it's just icing on the cake. If not, no big whoop -- he can start a support group with Josh Gordon and other guys who stupidly threw tons of cash, talent, and opportunity away for not being able to fly straight for a few years.

That said, at least John Clayton thinks he may be back soon:

http://www.957thegame.com/media/audio-channel/john-clayton-marshawn-lynch-joining-raiders-aldon-smith-possible-reinstatement

http://www.raidersbeat.com/espn-insider-believes-aldon-smith-will-return-to-raiders-soon/

 
BustedKnuckles said:
i love how people wont just say what they really want to say ...either out of fear of jinxing the team or they dont want to set themselves up for disappointment ...well i think the Raiders are going to be even greater than last year...and that they could win it all this year ...they now know that they can win games...they believe in the system and the Leader Carr...they have that Raider swagger back and a great nucleus to rally around...i say to the rest of the teams in the league ...BRING IT 
Click to expand...
They got better on D. Lynch is a better RB that Murray. No reason to think they won't post a better record. They absolutely need to beat NE and get home field adv. This team could play for the AFC championship this year.

 
lod001 said:
They got better on D. Lynch is a better RB that Murray. No reason to think they won't post a better record. They absolutely need to beat NE and get home field adv. This team could play for the AFC championship this year.
Click to expand...


The Pats game is game 9 this season.

Looking at the schedule...

Sun, Sep 10 @ Titans
Sun, Sep 17 vs Jets
Sun, Sep 24 @ Redskins
Sun, Oct @ Broncos
Sun, Oct 8 vs Ravens
Sun, Oct 15 vs Chargers
Sun, Oct 29 @ Bills
Sun, Nov 5 @ Dolphins
Sun, Nov 19 vs Patriots        

Holy crap. I just ended up putting our record at 8-0 heading into the Pats game.

I guess I am a little "afraid" to even guess that and write it down, but why can't we beat all of those first 8 teams?

I guess "the worst" I can see us doing in the first 8 games is 6-2 (lose to the Broncos and Ravens, I guess). (but believe me, as a long suffering fan, I can imagine a lot worse).

So, hell yeah, that game against the Pats to start the 2nd half of the season will set us up really nicely for the #1 seed in the AFC imo.

 
joey said:
The Pats game is game 9 this season.

Looking at the schedule...

Sun, Sep 10 @ Titans
Sun, Sep 17 vs Jets
Sun, Sep 24 @ Redskins
Sun, Oct @ Broncos
Sun, Oct 8 vs Ravens
Sun, Oct 15 vs Chargers
Sun, Oct 29 @ Bills
Sun, Nov 5 @ Dolphins
Sun, Nov 19 vs Patriots        

Holy crap. I just ended up putting our record at 8-0 heading into the Pats game.

I guess I am a little "afraid" to even guess that and write it down, but why can't we beat all of those first 8 teams?

I guess "the worst" I can see us doing in the first 8 games is 6-2 (lose to the Broncos and Ravens, I guess). (but believe me, as a long suffering fan, I can imagine a lot worse).

So, hell yeah, that game against the Pats to start the 2nd half of the season will set us up really nicely for the #1 seed in the AFC imo.
Click to expand...
We handled the Titans easily last year in their house, having a commanding 17-3 lead into halftime and never looking back -- our D finally showed up to play.

But I'm not looking past them so easily, there a team that continues to get better and can see them vying for the division title in the AFC South instead of the Texans this year.

But I concur, 6-2 is definitely what I'd expect coming into the game with the Pats.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I have completely turned away from thinking anything about Aldon Smith and whether or not he can return -- have moved well down the line from Aldon and if somehow he is reinstated, it's just icing on the cake. If not, no big whoop -- he can start a support group with Josh Gordon and other guys who stupidly threw tons of cash, talent, and opportunity away for not being able to fly straight for a few years.

That said, at least John Clayton thinks he may be back soon:

http://www.957thegame.com/media/audio-channel/john-clayton-marshawn-lynch-joining-raiders-aldon-smith-possible-reinstatement

http://www.raidersbeat.com/espn-insider-believes-aldon-smith-will-return-to-raiders-soon/
Click to expand...
Aldon who?  :D

 
Elijah Hood - RB - Raiders

Raiders seventh-rounder Elijah Hood reportedly "turned the heads of the offensive staff" at rookie minicamp.

At 6-foot, 232, Hood will serve as the direct backup to 31-year-old Marshawn Lynch this season, while Jalen Richard and DeAndre Washington stay in change-up roles. Hood averaged 6.0 career yards per carry at North Carolina.

 
Marshall Newhouse - T - Raiders

Coach Jack Del Rio said Marshall Newhouse is currently the Raiders' starting right tackle.

It'll come down to Newhouse and Austin Howard. It's the only spot up for grabs on the Raiders' offense after Menelik Watson left for the Broncos. Howard is rehabbing from shoulder surgery, and Newhouse inked a two-year pact in March. Newhouse was the Giants' No. 3 tackle last season, failing to beat out RT Bobby Hart. Newhouse knows GM Reggie McKenzie from Green Bay.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
Elijah Hood - RB - Raiders

Raiders seventh-rounder Elijah Hood reportedly "turned the heads of the offensive staff" at rookie minicamp.

At 6-foot, 232, Hood will serve as the direct backup to 31-year-old Marshawn Lynch this season, while Jalen Richard and DeAndre Washington stay in change-up roles. Hood averaged 6.0 career yards per carry at North Carolina.
Click to expand...
Hood isn't a generational player, but II was really encouraged by his tape and this news coming out of camp. Hope he does continue the development as I think he has the skill set to be our heavy back/short yardage back, perfectly filling Murray/Lynch's role into the future.

We'll see, but love seeing news like this (with the healthy grain of salt that we usually only going to hear gushing  hyperbole-laden stories coming out of minicampst/OTAs).

 
A bit of a change in focus from this year to years past...

Yesterday on the Sirius NFL Radio show the topic was 'The Fab Four' for each franchise.   I'm interested to see who each would list as the Fab Four for the Raiders.  With such a lengthy history of great rosters and players, it ends up being a pretty difficult question to answer:

My list would be:

1. Kenny Stabler
2. Howie Long
3. Willie Brown
4. Marcus Allen (almost dropped off this list because of his departure to KC - but his run against Washington in the SB alone gets him back on the list)

**Important to note that the conversation moved to include players only - otherwise Davis would absolutely be on the list.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's a very tall task.  So many deserving names.  Biletnikoff has to be on that list even if that means bumping on of those guys.  Ted Hendricks is a candidate but I guess that him not playing the full career for the Raiders might be a tie-breaker with Long.  Casper had two of the more iconic plays in NFL history and was one of the early dominant TE's in the game.

Biletnikoff
Stabler
Brown
Long

 
I had the Mad Stork on my list because:

a) He was such a dominant player with the Raiders. During that era the hash marks were closer to the sidelines. I recall the Raiders often deploying Hendricks as the sole player on LOS when the ball was on the short side of the field. Unreal.

b) He spearheaded the first Super bowl championship. All the older fans painfully recall how those dominant teams seemed to alway loose in the AFC championship game.

c) He was one of the most entertaining players of all time.

Willie Brown, Howie, Freddie were my others, but a strong argument could be made for Shell, Upshaw, Tim Brown, Tatum, Casper.

 
No Tim Brown in the top 4, please.

Jerry Rice on his last legs made merealize how not-elite Tim Brown was as a WR.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hankmoody
Las Vegas Raiders thread - ☠ What we can't find a single coach to fire? ☠
129 130 131
Replies
7K
Views
453K
LawFitz
LawFitz
Hankmoody
2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever
120 121 122
Replies
6K
Views
312K
LawFitz
LawFitz
Hankmoody
2022 Las Vegas Raiders
94 95 96
Replies
5K
Views
156K
SproutDaddy
SproutDaddy

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top