WarpedWorld
Footballguy
I'm happy to retain Gabe, but this seems like a overpay. Average of 11m for a guard that isn't in the top 5?
I thought they could have saved few millions for the Mack and Cooper contracts down the line.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
I thought they could have saved few millions for the Mack and Cooper contracts down the line.
massraider
Footballguy
Extension, money gets spread over 6 years, same as Carr's deal.
Reggie wicked smaht
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Geez Reggie spending like a drunken sailor in leave. I hope he saved a little for Mack and Cooper
Moonshine
Footballguy
I was only off by 33% I guess, small beans (/s). Glad we're paying the man at least, he's young and on track to be one of the best guards in the NFL.
We've got a lot of money sunk into just the guard position (two of the top 5 paid guards in the NFL between him and Osemele), though. Between him, Osemele, and Hudson we have got to have the most expensive line-up of interior linemen, by far. I trust RM to work his voodoo, but those are much bigger numbers than I was expecting, even if spread out over six years.
No point in paying your franchise QB record breaking numbers if you don't invest in the best line to keep him upright and healthy though.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
This is about $10M more than I expected so I am pretty surprised. The bolded says it all though. Olines are extremely important. We have to protect our young, prized QB and get the running game going. I trust that Reggie knows what he is doing.
I was only off by 33% I guess, small beans (/s). Glad we're paying the man at least, he's young and on track to be one of the best guards in the NFL.
We've got a lot of money sunk into just the guard position (two of the top 5 paid guards in the NFL between him and Osemele), though. Between him, Osemele, and Hudson we have got to have the most expensive line-up of interior linemen, by far. I trust RM to work his voodoo, but those are much bigger numbers than I was expecting, even if spread out over six years.
No point in paying your franchise QB record breaking numbers if you don't invest in the best line to keep him upright and healthy though.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
We knew that the extensions for Carr and Jackson were coming. We know we have to prepare for Cooper and Mack. Is there any money left where we could put together a decent offer for Orr? No way we would be top dollar but a good case could be made for it being a good move for a young LB if he wants to win. He could really be the rug that ties the room together.
massraider
Footballguy
Well, Carr's details are out:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/02/the-full-derek-carr-details/
This piece has all the details, I quoted the important details: The bonuses and cap numbers.
The cap numbers are most important, that tells us how much wiggle room the Raiders will have, and if there's any point at which they need to renegotiate. No need to worry about that.
Fellas, these are better numbers than I could have hoped for. This is a very friendly contract. This is owed mostly to parking around 14 mill in 2017's cap. We are saving a lot of money on the cap down the road, by locking him up before his last year. Carr being a 2nd round pick worked to the team's advantage.
No one is mentioning that his last year cap number was cheap, round a mill I think. For all intents and purposes, this is a 6 year, $126 million deal (21 per average). Those cap numbers, just looking at them, don't tell a thing. You need context. Consider:
If Joe Flacco's cap number in 2020 is $28 mill, how will Carr's $21.5 mill look?
Carr's cap number in 2022 is 1.5 mill more than Ben Roethlisberger's number THIS year.
Carr has a lower number than Andrew Luck, by far, in every year of his deal except one. That year, his number is 500 grand higher.
Carr has only one season, 2018, where his cap number is more than Carson Palmer's deal THIS year.
When Stafford and Cousins sign, both will have cap numbers bigger than Carr in almost every season.
When it's time for Mack's deal, we will have the following players' cap numbers to play with (with no cap hit if cut):
Sean Smith
David Amerson
Donald Penn
Michael Crabtree
Bruce Irvin
Austin Howard
Reggie Nelson
If any of those players continue to kill it, and we pay them, great. But these are big deals either expiring, or with no dead money. Osemele, Hudson, and Carr. Those are the three big deals that will definitely be on the books. We have more flexibility than anyone except the Browns, I would guess. There is plenty there for Mack and Cooper.
massraider
Footballguy
Hope we don't lose Marshawn to another pro sport:
https://twitter.com/bayani13/status/881719425916739584
https://twitter.com/bayani13/status/881719425916739584
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Waived with non-football injury for Neiron Ball.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Does the episode offer any reasons why AD put Marcus on ice. Such a petty move
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
BLASPHEMY.
True, the way Marcus was treated by Al and the organization was flat wrong.
That said, we never will know the real and full reason behind the feud -- did Al think Marcus wasn't a team player for constantly holding out of camp? Something non-football related, as is often speculated? -- Al Davis is the face, heart, mind and soul of this franchise, and always will be.
Having drank all the Silver and Black Kool-Aid, my opinion is that what Al did for the Raiders -- and for the NFL as a whole -- is beyond reproach in my book.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/7/11/15956500/calvin-johnson-wants-to-play-derek-carr-still-be-playing-football-if-lions-released-his-contract
Holy Crap. I can't sit still now
A looooong way off i know but where there is smoke...
Holy Crap. I can't sit still now
A looooong way off i know but where there is smoke...
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
I think he's saying, "I was working out and playing - and through injury after injury - at a Pro Bowl or All Pro level." This team had aspirations of, "Maybe we can make a weak playoff appearance." I'd happily take on a Has Been All Pro WR. Don't know what salary he'd command (and probably more than we should afford to pay), or if a playoff contender would get a solid discount for a 1A, 1B or 1C WR position because he wouldn't get killed by jump balls every 3rd play. He and Amari outside with Crabtree in the slot and Cook at TE with Lynch in back?!?! Getting a chub just window shopping... sorry.Hankmoody said:
RaiderBones
Footballguy
Hankmoody said:
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I really cannot see this happening, mostly because the Lions would never let his rights go (Exhibit A: Barry Sanders) and think that Megatron was really just answering along the lines of, "If you did hypothetically come out of retirement, what team would you like to play for."Sarlakticacid said:
But good gracious Ignacious, what a way to reverse, expunge, and otherwise exorcise the travesty known as Jamarcus Russell that would be.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
No one thought the Raiders were a Super Bowl team last offseason. Perry Riley still signed on, Reggie Nelson still wanted to join us, Donald Penn kept coming back to work. Khalil Mack didn't think it wasn't "worth his time" to work that hard. Derrick Carr didn't look at his $700k contract and wonder if it was "worth his time". Rodney Hudson felt it was "worth his time" to come to a team with nowhere near realistic SB aspirations. It was "worth his time" for Crabtree to come to non-Super Bowl contender Oakland and give full effort despite not being the clear-cut #1 option while making about 1/2 the salary.
If the guy was banged up and his body just couldn't do it any more, fine. Now he feels refreshed and wants to come back, I get it.
If the guy had no passion left for the game and just couldn't put in the necessary work, I can live with that. Now he misses is and gets the fire back, come on down.
But the dude didn't think the team was "worth his time". What's he gonna do if we lose a couple of games early? Is he gonna quit on us too if we start 3-4 and get smoked by KCC at home in the process? Carr won't. And if he does he can GTFO too. Gimmie guys with fire in their belly that want to play the game all out and be here regardless of the payout. It's ok to want to win a SB, hell it's expected one would want that, but to quit because you didn't believe in your teammates ability to do it?
Pass.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I don't believe that for one second. There's not a team in the league that doesn't expect excellence and have playoff aspirations in March aside from a couple of train wrecks that are realists about their talent level, of which Detroit wasn't one. The very team he quit on went 9-7 and made the playoffs. Toss in a talent like Calvin and maybe they win that last game, pull out the division, they get a home game, they pull off a surprise. But the guy didn't believe in his teammates, and he quit on them.
Don't get me wrong. Bringing in an all-world talent would be incredible, especially the all-world guy we passed on for Jalazyass. That would be great if we're getting that guy that's committed and believes and will go all out. But will he, when the going gets rough?
Last edited by a moderator:
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I can agree with that but I did and many others thought that they were capable of making the playoffs and from there you never know what can happen. A team can always get on a run. If Carr didn't get injured last season the Raiders would have been a tough out in my opinion.
I would still take Johnson in a heartbeat if he were able to get out of his contract. He always trained and played hard. I do think that the main reason he retired is all the injuries started to pile up and he figured that if Detroit wasn't able or willing to put a great product on the field why keep on taking a beating. Retire now and save his body from anymore injuries.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
And yet Calvin, who actually played for the team, couldn't muster up enough optimism to "make it worth his effort" despite being part of a team that had gone 11-5 just two years prior.
And you hit on one of my key points - all you gotta do is get to the playoffs and it's on like donkey kong. PIT won from the #6 seed not too long ago, the Giants pulled off two huge upsets
If that were what is was I would be all in. But I don't know how you can really believe that when it's not at all what he said. Perhaps this was taken out of context or there's more to it that wasn't included here that might change my mind, but that comment was pretty damning in my mind.
"I didn’t see a chance for them to win a Super Bowl at the time and for the work that I was putting in, it wasn’t worth my time to keep beating my head against the wall and not going anywhere. It’s the definition of insanity.”
He could have said "it wasn't worth the pounding my body was taking" or "it wasn't worth the pain I was enduring on a daily basis" or "it wasn't worth the long term repercussions my body would have had to pay". He didn't say any of those thing. I think that is very, very telling.
Last edited by a moderator:
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Raiders made Forbes top 50 list for the first time since 2013.
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/7/12/15960736/forbes-releases-sports-top-50-most-valuable-franchises-and-raiders-actually-made-the-list-this-time
Sitting at number 34 on the Forbes Top 50 franchises is the Raiders with an estimated worth of $2.1 billion as the 20th most valuable NFL franchise. That’s a whopping 47% increase from last year when they were worth $1.43 billion.
Hopefully this jump starts our ability to be financially competitive. They structured Carr's contract for initially not much guaranteed and for more to guarantee in subsequent years. That's great and all, we got our homegrown QB to take it, but can we get our next OT to accept that? Is Mack going to be willing to defer all that guarantee with the risk? I'm sure this was a necessity because guaranteed money must be placed in escrow and the Raiders are cash poor so have trouble doing that. We have a lot of draft picks that look like they are going to be priority to retain and we're going to need that cash flow to improve. Certainly it will once we have the stadium revenue but that's still 3-4 years away. This extra valuation can only help with things like equity, credit line, and investor opportunity.
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/7/12/15960736/forbes-releases-sports-top-50-most-valuable-franchises-and-raiders-actually-made-the-list-this-time
Sitting at number 34 on the Forbes Top 50 franchises is the Raiders with an estimated worth of $2.1 billion as the 20th most valuable NFL franchise. That’s a whopping 47% increase from last year when they were worth $1.43 billion.
Hopefully this jump starts our ability to be financially competitive. They structured Carr's contract for initially not much guaranteed and for more to guarantee in subsequent years. That's great and all, we got our homegrown QB to take it, but can we get our next OT to accept that? Is Mack going to be willing to defer all that guarantee with the risk? I'm sure this was a necessity because guaranteed money must be placed in escrow and the Raiders are cash poor so have trouble doing that. We have a lot of draft picks that look like they are going to be priority to retain and we're going to need that cash flow to improve. Certainly it will once we have the stadium revenue but that's still 3-4 years away. This extra valuation can only help with things like equity, credit line, and investor opportunity.
efactor
Footballguy
Always liked Calvin and would love to see him back in the NFL. Fun guy to watch.
However, this latest rant makes him sound like a bitter old man (which he probably isn't overall). If he really wants to play again, I'm sure things can be worked out with a little negotiating. If I read correctly, his cap number is 24 million. Lions won't pony up that number if he "unretires".
Cooper, Crabtree and Johnson would put the Raiders at the top of my Sunday ticket games to watch.
However, this latest rant makes him sound like a bitter old man (which he probably isn't overall). If he really wants to play again, I'm sure things can be worked out with a little negotiating. If I read correctly, his cap number is 24 million. Lions won't pony up that number if he "unretires".
Cooper, Crabtree and Johnson would put the Raiders at the top of my Sunday ticket games to watch.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
You didn't. They already ate the dead money hit last year. I think his 2017 salary would be around 12M if he did return.
DET only has $6M in cap space at the moment, so he could put some pressure on them if he did just show up. But if that's really what he wanted to do and get released he could have done that at any time. Like say last August 29th or so.
As a Calvin owner, I watched every game. When you lose and the team ignores you in the 1st Q or 1 pass inter 1st half, you know exactly where hes coming from. Once doosh bag became HC, you could see that he sucked the life out of Calvin. Glad to see Calvin throw them under the bus finally.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Why pass?
If you are the type of guy to play at your hardest just because you are on the field (and at the level he plays- I have to imagine that is his mental make up) then being in a situation where you feel it is hopeless, are not happy with the coaches and back office and don't feel you are being treated right that has got to be a horrible place to be in.
If it was me, I think I would say 'fine' and then play at 75% and drop a few balls on purpose to the point that they were forced to cut me.
If he was available and willing to play for a contract we can do (which is not much at all)- then I would take him in a heart beat.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I think you have to dig more into it though. I don't think it was a situation of "the Lions won't win the super bowl- see ya!", but if you are frustrated with how you are used and treated and then on top of it you are not considered a team that has a realistic shot at the SB.... then the only thing you have left is pure love for the game (and I would say that the love can be sucked out of anything by crappy team leadership) or pure love of the money. He clearly isn't in it for the money. There is clearly something wrong with the Lions organization.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Amazing what winning and having a future of a stadium that is not swimming in poo can do for you.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
If he was bitter.... we would have heard all of this a long time ago.
Sure, the Lions wouldn't pony up for that but we can't afford a sliver of that either.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
To add to this I think there has been something wrong with the Lions leadership for a long time now. Barry Sanders retired at age 30 when it still looked like he had something left in the tank and I think a lot of that had to do with the organization.Chadstroma said:
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I think usage was the main driver in Calvin's decision. That is just my opinion of course but it was ridiculous how little he was targeted. He was an uncoverable beast. ,lod001 said:
Biabreakable
Footballguy
They were often having him run routes over the middle a lot more in his last couple years there and getting him smashed by LB and safeties a lot more because of it.
I never really understood why they were doing this because he is such a nighmare to cover on the outside and that stretches the safety help to whichever side he was on opening up things for their other players.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-Add-Three-Free-Agents/a3514fff-ba5b-4c9b-ae5e-182d426ec571
Calm before the storm. Crocket made some noise once as a flier darling and the LB looks to be super athletic, would be interesting to see if we're loading up to stop the TE's in the division. Not like we ever have in the past. I think Obi Wan Fenobi was a purpose pick along these lines too.
Calm before the storm. Crocket made some noise once as a flier darling and the LB looks to be super athletic, would be interesting to see if we're loading up to stop the TE's in the division. Not like we ever have in the past. I think Obi Wan Fenobi was a purpose pick along these lines too.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/7/12/15960516/raiders-sign-athletic-freak-lb-brady-sheldon
More about the LB from above. 6'5" 220-230, 4.5 type speed, 37" vert.
More about the LB from above. 6'5" 220-230, 4.5 type speed, 37" vert.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Lions own his rights and we all know how that went for Barry Sanders. He either plays for the Lions or no one. The Lions ownership probably feel as if they can't afford to let any player dictate where they play and even if the Raiders offer a 1st rd pick they would probably decline.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
If he was super motivated, he could unretire. Force the Lions into making roster moves or trading. Worst case for him? Retire again if they called his bluff. Best case? He plays football again where he wants. But I don't think that is going to happen at all.
squistion
Footballguy
Barry Sanders was a different era, so that is an apples-and-oranges comparison. Also after he quit, he really didn't talk about it for years. If Lynch/Raiders could work something out with Seattle then I am sure the Lions would jump at some draft pick compenation in return (although I doubt it would be for a 1st) rather than get nothing by insisting he play for them or not at all.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Word is Detroit has invited Calvin to their practicessquistion said:
squistion
Footballguy
Probably saying Put up or shut up - but it doesn't really change anything in my mind if he doesn't want to play for them.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
Agree. Lions trying to save face. Nothing to do unless he does show up and force their hand. Not likely he ever plays again.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Maybe I am over analyzing, but all this talk about CJo hints at an underlying concern I have about the Raider's Depth at WR. After Coop and Crabs, the level of talent falls off pretty dramatically. Yikes.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
I kinda agree here. Although, when Seth Roberts scores a TD we always win, a stat I saw somewhere, but it's kinda hard to close the gap after the top 2 guys with them both being top ten draft picks
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Hopefully at worst Zamora can push Roberts for the no3 spot
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Except that they can't afford his cap number and can't even get him in under the cap by cutting players.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
In the Sanders Era, Lions management was so perplexing that they openly said they would rather let Sanders retire than trade him as he quietly requested. The reason stated was because they didn't want to ever play against him. It may have been one of the worst general management moves in football history, as it could have set them up like Hershall Walker did for the Cowboys dynasty.
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
