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2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (3 Viewers)

Sarlakticacid said:
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/9/21/16342378/raiders-unleash-cordarrelle-patterson-to-add-new-wrinkle-to-already-dynamic-offensive-attack
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I like how we're using Patterson so far. Specifically, rather than trotting him out just for the end around/jet sweep, we shook it up and gave him some direct snaps and once or twice in formation as a receiver.

Patterson can contribute with his skill set if we can get him in space. I worry that as that skill is utilized in certain set plays above, he becomes really predictable. Patterson on the field? End around or direct snap (or fake thereof) coming up. Seems the same thing that makes him useful also limits his usage in all the looks we could possibly give a D.

Hope he continues to contribute, and our coaching staff keep mixing his usage up so he doesn't just become a predictable one trick pony.

 
Give these guys time.  Joseph is still early into his 2nd year and is already showing flashes like a not-quite-as-fast Polomalu and we haven't even seen him make many plays in the passing game but he covers every bit as well as he hits / tackles.  Conley looks -- in very limited exposure -- very polished for a rookie in his 1st game with hardly any offseason.  Cover skills look very polished and for a cover-corner, he isn't afraid (Deionesque) to tackle.  I didn't like the Obi pick when it was made, but I'll hold out hope until I see him get some work on his pro resume.  All told, I doubt this is a "tough" defense this year but should be at least average or better and by season's end, they won't be someone that other offenses are excited to play and by next year will have earned a good bit of respect.  Development and cohesiveness take time, and these guys have shown that the talent, heart and intelligence is there.  Hopefully they all gel and end up a perennial top 10 D for a while.

 
Cookiemonster said:
Give these guys time.  Joseph is still early into his 2nd year and is already showing flashes like a not-quite-as-fast Polomalu and we haven't even seen him make many plays in the passing game but he covers every bit as well as he hits / tackles.  Conley looks -- in very limited exposure -- very polished for a rookie in his 1st game with hardly any offseason.  Cover skills look very polished and for a cover-corner, he isn't afraid (Deionesque) to tackle.  I didn't like the Obi pick when it was made, but I'll hold out hope until I see him get some work on his pro resume.  All told, I doubt this is a "tough" defense this year but should be at least average or better and by season's end, they won't be someone that other offenses are excited to play and by next year will have earned a good bit of respect.  Development and cohesiveness take time, and these guys have shown that the talent, heart and intelligence is there.  Hopefully they all gel and end up a perennial top 10 D for a while.
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Why would you not like a big bodied safety who can be physical with tight ends but has the athleticism to cover wide receivers? 

 
Chadstroma said:
Why would you not like a big bodied safety who can be physical with tight ends but has the athleticism to cover wide receivers? 
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From what I saw of him, it was very much a "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane."  He is big and an excellent athlete, but his cover skills, ball skills, field awareness and tackling were all less than you would expect of a man of his stature and ability.  I saw Sean Davis at best.  I'll admit to it being a limited sample size, but I was unimpressed.  But my God, if he DOES pan out, this D could be nasty!  Like recent Seattle nasty, or Denver nasty.  Not just top 10, but top 3... year after year.

 
Cookiemonster said:
From what I saw of him, it was very much a "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane."  He is big and an excellent athlete, but his cover skills, ball skills, field awareness and tackling were all less than you would expect of a man of his stature and ability.  I saw Sean Davis at best.  I'll admit to it being a limited sample size, but I was unimpressed.  But my God, if he DOES pan out, this D could be nasty!  Like recent Seattle nasty, or Denver nasty.  Not just top 10, but top 3... year after year.
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We have a whole lot of young players that need to develop but the potential IS there to be as you say a top 3 defense year after year. We know we have the elite defensive player of the year level player. We know we have a couple of good players and/or players that have shown enough that we know they will be good. Then we have tons of players all over the place that are young and have given us reason to hope. There is reason to talk about it but we have a whole lot of development to do before we are anywhere near a "Seattle" or "Denver" level D. I also don't think we have an answer at MLB and it is hard for me to see us getting to an elite level without a solid MLB. He doesn't have to be elite himself but he has to be solid. I'm trying to think of an elite level D with a big hole at MLB and I am coming up empty. 

I'm hoping we get there and I see the road map for us to get there but we have a good amount of driving time before we arrive- fire up a good long playlist and let's roll. 

 
Hyped on Joseph, Conley, Vander, Luani, James, Hester.

Not convinced on the rest of the youngins.

Down on Ward, Calhoun.

 
Sarlakticacid said:
Im sure there are lessons to be learnt from this game, but where to start?
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It's amazing how quickly "I'm hopeful about our young secondary growing into a dominant group" turns into a slap in the face with the reality that our defense won't change overnight. 

What did did change overnight was our offense being shut down. Very disappointed that we couldn't even crack that nut after the half time break. 

And major hats off to the Redskins for dominating us on both O and D. 

 
That secondary had our passing offense solved. I think it's good for us early in the season, going to make our OC come up with some more creative schemes but ya, it sucks.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
im sure that loss will only make them better
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It could or it could be the beginning of more defensive struggles.  The D was just worked all over the field.  Even when DBs were in position, they got beat.  The D was not good and that does not surprise me.  This team has to outscore other teams.  The total lack of fire and effort on the O side of the ball was surprising.  Carr was off.  The Oline was mauled.  Cooper is not a WR1.  The play calling was horrible.  A good OC should have seen the Oline getting beat after the first series and made adjustments.  Go to some screens and quick passes.  

 
What the hell happened to Cooper? I only have him in 1 league but was shocked to see a near-skunk, especially with Crabtree going out. I didn't watch the game. Guy is turning into a bust at his draft ranking (real and fantasy).

 
I don't know what team that was out there last night.  Completely out of character from the second play on when Carr just threw one up for grabs.  The offensive line was completely dominated, there were 3-4 snaps made before Carr was expecting them, never tried to establish a running game and the defense was miserable.  For now I'll chalk this up to a bad night, except the defense part which I expect to continue.  And someone mentioned it earlier, Amari Cooper is not an elite WR.  That pick would have been better spent on Leonard Williams.

 
I haven't seen this team play this poorly since the pre JDR era. The offense let the team down from the OC all the way to the 3rd WR. We all know the defense is not good enough to hold up for the number of plays they were required to play last night. One very strange series was when they had the ball inside the 5 yard line and did not try to pound it. Three or four straight runs with Lynch would, at minimum, have kept the defense off the field a little longer. Very strange.

I have seen penalties called for defenseless receiver on similar plays as the one when Crabtree got drilled attempting a catch downfield. 

And why the hell didn't the ref recognize Car's signal for a time out late in the game? Not that is would have made a difference but it felt like the refs weren't on their game either. 

 
Trap game anyone... but Carr and OC need to be able to challenge top CBs, Carr barely targets whoever is covered by the top CB.   

How mAny useless targets did we send our lower WRs tonight.

We need to establish Cooper on drag routes to begin with and let him take over games. He is the same as a RB who wears down Ds. Fire him up and he's unstoppable 

 
Admittedly I didn't watch the full game... because well I couldn't stomach it.  But for the 3+ quarters I did watch I was absolutely confused on just how poorly the o-line was playing.  The pocket instantly collapsed around Carr, the RBs were instantly met with a tackler in the backfield.  It was a completely different unit than games past.    It blew big chunks to wait all day only to watch that play out so poorly...

Credit to the Redskins, they showed up in a prime time game with all facets of their game on point.  Outside of two errors (fumble and muff punt) the game was theirs from start to finish.

 
Phenomena said:
What the hell happened to Cooper? I only have him in 1 league but was shocked to see a near-skunk, especially with Crabtree going out. I didn't watch the game. Guy is turning into a bust at his draft ranking (real and fantasy).
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I'm no champion of Cooper, but this wasn't about him.  We stunk, period.  It happens occasionally, and every team has them, but this was particularly epic.  When Carr is off we are going to lose.  Bad.  Every time.  We already knew that.  We also knew we couldn't cover a TE to save our life.  But we got another present from out D (the kind your dog leaves for you when you forget to let him out before you go watch 11 hours of football) today - that an RB can shred us too.  And I don't think that's going to actually surprise anyone here, it's just new.  Kind of like the first time you see a car run into a tree.  No real surprise at the outcome, it's just awe-inspiringly scary.  Add to that our OLine getting smoked, our RB's getting hammered, and our pass rush still lacking, and this is the result.

At least we got it all out of the way in the same game.  Thompson alone would have lost us one game, and the OLine performance another, and Carr stinking like that a third and we could easily be 0-3.  Instead they all happened at once and we're 2-1 and have two (out of four) of our deep east road trips behind us (screw you NFL for that).  It's time for our coaching to step up.  We have a ton of film now to work with and we have a laundry list of things for them to take to the players and say "we own this, we have to fix it".  Get them motivated and get them working.

 
Agree, we were bad in every stage of the game.

Carr was off -- a combination of our O-line uncharacteristically getting physically dominated (they were constantly being pushed back collapsing around Carr) and very poor decision making. His picks were simply terrible throws he shouldn't have made, and his timing/accuracy seemed off as well, overthrowing receivers or not getting the ball into the target window crisply.

He was not helped by our receivers -- Cooper's drops are now inexcuseable for an athlete of his caliber, and Crabtree just couldn't convert on many of his targets either. Our running game also failed to set up our pass game, which is crucial to the way our offense is set up. Lynch wasn't getting going, and the team seemed to abandon him late. Not sure why we didn't use him when we were goal to go, that was weird.

And as others have pointed out, our D is simply not good enough as a unit to help deliver a win without the offense's support. I wonder it is a good idea to consider dropping Ken Norton Jr. right now to send a message -- this team is built to win now, and this kind of performance -- on the field and behind the clipboard -- is inexcusable. I don't think Norton should be a scapegoat as the entire team played poorly, but it's just another example of our team failing to make adjustments when it was clear our gameplan needed to be change (good example was Thompson killing us all over the field).

Hopefully this serves as the wake-up call it needed to be. This is the NFL, and any given Sunday. A team like the Skins who bring talent and more importantly , a stronger desire and hunger to bring the pain for a full 60 minutes, can and will derail us if we're not focused, prepared, and willing to step up and execute and adapt when necessary.

 
Chalk me up as thinking there is plenty of talent on defense and, at this point the blame falls squarely on Ken Norton Jr AND JDR. Say what you will about Norton, and I have nothing good to say at this point, but JDR is supposed to be a defensive specialist himself at what point do these atrocities fall on his shoulders? I hate scapegoating but, IMO, the problems on defense are scheme and game plan related and the people responsible need to go.

 
Looked like someone ruffied Carr last night. Probably the worst game of his career. He'll bounce back, all the blame shouldn't fall on his shoulders. The play calling was baffling and predictable. Teams know what to expect when Lynch is in. And as someone mentioned before, Patterson lining up in the backfield won't surprise anyone after the Jets game. 

The most puzzling thing to me was the play of the Oline, I've never seen that unit get pushed around like they did last night.

And it's time to send Sean Smith to the doghouse for good. The guy can't even cover aging, mediocre TEs anymore. 

The honeymoon is over for Lynch, no more dancing on the sidelines. I don't want the free spirit Lynch, we need Beast mode back!

 
DocHolliday said:
It could or it could be the beginning of more defensive struggles.  The D was just worked all over the field.  Even when DBs were in position, they got beat.  The D was not good and that does not surprise me.  This team has to outscore other teams.  The total lack of fire and effort on the O side of the ball was surprising.  Carr was off.  The Oline was mauled.  Cooper is not a WR1.  The play calling was horrible.  A good OC should have seen the Oline getting beat after the first series and made adjustments.  Go to some screens and quick passes.  
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKlEq_6WAAA-5wD.jpg

 
The entire team was off last night. The only good thing to say is that I hope it was a learning experience for these young guys. 

 
pretty quiet in here with a HUGE divisional match up coming up in Denver.

Both teams coming of disappointing losses. Both teams need this win to not "drop" to .500.

I'm liking the Raiders' odds after that embarrassing loss. I think that's a major gut check for this team that has show great character, resilience and drive in the JDR era.

Do we go "jumbo" OL on them again and try to really unleash the Beast(Mode) for the first time this year. The only time we truly committed to Lynch so far was that great 3 play series at the goal line 2 weeks ago when we pounded it 3 times in a row. That kind of thing, when it's successful, of course, really sets a tone.

 
joey said:
pretty quiet in here with a HUGE divisional match up coming up in Denver.

Both teams coming of disappointing losses. Both teams need this win to not "drop" to .500.

I'm liking the Raiders' odds after that embarrassing loss. I think that's a major gut check for this team that has show great character, resilience and drive in the JDR era.

Do we go "jumbo" OL on them again and try to really unleash the Beast(Mode) for the first time this year. The only time we truly committed to Lynch so far was that great 3 play series at the goal line 2 weeks ago when we pounded it 3 times in a row. That kind of thing, when it's successful, of course, really sets a tone.
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The Raiders are going to play much better this week but it is not going to be enough.  24-21 bad guys. 

 
32 Counter Pass said:
One very strange series was when they had the ball inside the 5 yard line and did not try to pound it. Three or four straight runs with Lynch would, at minimum, have kept the defense off the field a little longer. Very strange.
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And very frustrating. On first down he wasn't even on the field. I guess he can't be relied on to pick up four yards in three tries. I guess he's old and not as good as Pete Banaszak (league-leading 16 rushing TDs in 1975) or Zack Crockett (28 TDs in four seasons, 2000-2003). 

 
joey said:
Do we go "jumbo" OL on them again and try to really unleash the Beast(Mode) for the first time this year. The only time we truly committed to Lynch so far was that great 3 play series at the goal line 2 weeks ago when we pounded it 3 times in a row. That kind of thing, when it's successful, of course, really sets a tone.
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Running into the DEN D is going to be extremely tough. DEN is normally great against the pass as well, but seem a little more susceptible there than vs the run so far this season. 

So while I don't think we go all in on Beast Mode, I do absolutely think that setting him up and giving him the carries to make Denver think about how they defend the box is going to open up our passing game. We simply need the run to set up the pass. 

Ed Wood said:
And very frustrating. On first down he wasn't even on the field. I guess he can't be relied on to pick up four yards in three tries. I guess he's old and not as good as Pete Banaszak (league-leading 16 rushing TDs in 1975) or Zack Crockett (28 TDs in four seasons, 2000-2003). 
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A little confusing and frustrating to me, too. I get that the Raiders were likely facing all-out blitzes in those situations and thought that picking up the pass was going to be the key to a TD in those situations. But everything about the way Lynch has played makes me think that while he doesn't have the same speed/burst, he absolutely does have the ability to fall forward for a yard or two. And at some point, Black Jack needs to say f it and put the burden on Lynch and our O line to do what we need them to do in those situations.

I think we come in hungry and ready and blow the doors off of Siemian. If we can keep the pressure up and manage to score points against a very ferocious D, I think we steal this win on the road. Screw the Donks -- we need to go full bore and unleash everything we have.

 
Just to mention, the title "defense reverts to form, drags Carr down with them" isn't accurate. A more accurate title would be offense is a no show drags the defense down with them. 

 
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BustedKnuckles said:
Alex Jones has breaking news  :P

SHOCK REPORT: NFL’S OAKLAND RAIDERS THREW GAME AFTER WHITE QB REFUSED TO KNEEL FOR NATIONAL ANTHEM
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Dont want to believe this, but its sad that I at least think it is plausible.

Details from the report: They claim to have quotes from an o-line player saying "If he wants to stand alone for the anthem he can stand alone on the field..."   They imply that the O-line allowed Carr to get sacked several times and that the center may have purposely snapped the ball early 3 times.   They quote a player who they call "deep route" who said that several of the drops by the wide receivers were "weird".  (Cooper: 1 catch 6 yards, Crabtree: 1 catch 7 yards)  Maybe the biggest issue was at the very end where a journalist who was investigating this asked a team official if this happened and he was told that if he reported it, he would be blackballed from the Raiders and never be able to report on them again.

Is there any truth to it... Im not sure, if so then we will never find out. The team and league will do everything they can to cover it up.  

I would like to hear an opinion from an expert after they went back and rewatched the game again looking for any "weird" or oddities that may have occured. 

 
CaptainJT said:
Dont want to believe this, but its sad that I at least think it is plausible.

Is there any truth to it... Im not sure, if so then we will never find out. The team and league will do everything they can to cover it up.  
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Stop this, please. I am begging you to not take this even one post further.  Not here, not anywhere.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
Alex Jones has breaking news  :P

SHOCK REPORT: NFL’S OAKLAND RAIDERS THREW GAME AFTER WHITE QB REFUSED TO KNEEL FOR NATIONAL ANTHEM
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Please don't do this here. For the love of God please don't.

If you must post this, and IMO nothing Alex Jones ever says should be posted anywhere ever. And if you must post it please add the tagline INSANE, RAMBLING, PSYCHOTIC, LUNATIC CONTINUES INSANE, ENTIRELY FICTIONAL RAMBLINGS THAT SHOULD BE IGNORED OR LAUGHED AT, PREFERABLY THE FORMER. 

But please, I am sincerely asking you to not do this here.

 
CaptainJT said:
Dont want to believe this, but its sad that I at least think it is plausible.

Details from the report: They claim to have quotes from an o-line player saying "If he wants to stand alone for the anthem he can stand alone on the field..."   They imply that the O-line allowed Carr to get sacked several times and that the center may have purposely snapped the ball early 3 times.   They quote a player who they call "deep route" who said that several of the drops by the wide receivers were "weird".  (Cooper: 1 catch 6 yards, Crabtree: 1 catch 7 yards)  Maybe the biggest issue was at the very end where a journalist who was investigating this asked a team official if this happened and he was told that if he reported it, he would be blackballed from the Raiders and never be able to report on them again.

Is there any truth to it... Im not sure, if so then we will never find out. The team and league will do everything they can to cover it up.  

I would like to hear an opinion from an expert after they went back and rewatched the game again looking for any "weird" or oddities that may have occured. 
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That article says, "During the anthem, virtually the entire team was seen kneeling other than the teams coaches and star quarterback Derek Carr." The majority of the team didn't kneel. They sat on their bench with their arms locked during the anthem. Carr wasn't the only Raiders player that didn't sit. Carr is a hardcore Catholic, and he stood and prayed during the anthem. During the preseason, Carr put his hand on Mack's shoulder during the anthem in one of the games. There is also this:

ESPN reported before the game that the Raiders planned to all stay in the tunnel during the anthem but then reversed course because it would’ve affected kickoff time. Carr said there was plenty of discussion within the team about how to approach Sunday night’s pregame.

“Our team is like that on anything, and we all talked and we are all there for one another,” Carr said. “We just wanted to show people we’re unified. Some guys sat, some guys stood, but we just wanted to make sure we showed we were together. Whether you agree or disagree from the outside looking in, you know, standing or sitting, the ultimate goal is for one brief second, we love one another.”
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Chaka said:
Please don't do this here. For the love of God please don't.

If you must post this, and IMO nothing Alex Jones ever says should be posted anywhere ever. And if you must post it please add the tagline INSANE, RAMBLING, PSYCHOTIC, LUNATIC CONTINUES INSANE, ENTIRELY FICTIONAL RAMBLINGS THAT SHOULD BE IGNORED OR LAUGHED AT, PREFERABLY THE FORMER. 

But please, I am sincerely asking you to not do this here.
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honestly i find it amusing...certainly cant take it serious...and nobody should

 
BustedKnuckles said:
honestly i find it amusing...certainly cant take it serious...and nobody should
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I'm good with that but putting his message out there, on any level only serves as catnip for those who want to foment even more discord in a world that has more than enough of that going around. Even worse, some people might actually believe him. 

 
Chaka said:
I'm good with that but putting his message out there, on any level only serves as catnip for those who want to foment even more discord in a world that has more than enough of that going around. Even worse, some people might actually believe him. 
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Welcome to 2017. And 2016. And 20forever

 
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