2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (3 Viewers)

[Bruno2]

How different would the defense be if they had signed Josh Norman instead of Sean Smith? Granted the timing and money prolly put them out of the running. 

The Miami game had a really weird feel. As mentioned by others it was some of the worst tackling I have seen in sometime. That is on the staff as much as the players. 

They could've also made a run at Jenoris Jenkins. And why they didn't try to go after Joe Haden is beyond me as well. Who knows, maybe Reggie tried and hindsight is always 20/20. Not to mention, DJ Hayden seems to be playing better in Detroit. Maybe they gave up on him too soon as Well? 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Good points. Besides the lack of talent on the back end of the defense the other area there have been a lot of misses is the DLine. If they could generate a consistent pass rush to would cover up some the back end deficiencies. Besides Mack I do not see anyone else able to generate a consistent pass rush. Edwards, Ward and Vadeross have all disappointed thus far. 

 

[RaiderBones]

Let's try this another way.  Anyone think Norton should stay after the season?

No, which means the Raiders will sign him to a two year extension during the bye week.

 

[ICON211]

How different would the defense be if they had signed Josh Norman instead of Sean Smith? Granted the timing and money prolly put them out of the running. 

The Miami game had a really weird feel. As mentioned by others it was some of the worst tackling I have seen in sometime. That is on the staff as much as the players. 

I think the defense would also be better if the coaches actually let the guys play to their strengths.  We have corners that play better in man and would be better if they could disrupt routes from the start and most of the time they are off the line and in zone.  And if you can't get pressure you need to send extra guys and blitz.  Yeah, this could lead to some big plays, but I'm tired of getting picked apart with no pressure on the QB and they big plays have been happening anyway.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Good points. Besides the lack of talent on the back end of the defense the other area there have been a lot of misses is the DLine. If they could generate a consistent pass rush to would cover up some the back end deficiencies. Besides Mack I do not see anyone else able to generate a consistent pass rush. Edwards, Ward and Vadeross have all disappointed thus far. 

While I agree we didn't focus on shoring up the right FA talent fr our continued woeful secondary, I have more patience with our D-line.

Mack is a superstar and just the nature of having to double team will continue to open up opportunites for others. Vanderdoes is brand new and has shown some solidity, but he's a rook who is still learning at this level -- I've mostly liked what I've seen. 

I loved the addition of Irvin to pair with Mack in getting pressure -- Irvin was not going to be as dominant as he was with the Seahawks, but he's serviceable in at least attacking soft spots opened up by the O focusing on Mack -- we need to scheme more to do that more, with Irvin and others.

Mario has been oft-injured and this is the first year he's actually been in a successive series of games and while not a pro-bowler, I've mostly liked what I've seen. Jelly isn't dominant but he does what a NT should do well -- plug up space through the middle.

Even Denico Autry looked like he was back on track early and had an amazing preseason, followed by 5 QB pressures and 0.5 sacks with some tackles for losses in the first 3 games or so -- he's tailed off since so I think between him, Hester, and Ward, we need better depth -- overall and situationally in rotation. But not a complete disaster.

Except for Irvin, we've also been operating with zero support for the DLine from our LB corps of Cowser, Lee, Morrow and Calhoun. Bowman coming to the team has created some spark, and Cory James seems to have had a few good games recently, but is also prone to mistakes. 

Honestly, with a couple of shore-up players for better depth/usage, the one thing that will singularly change our defensive ability is getting a new coordinator who actually can bring some sophisticated schemes and gameplans that leverage the talent we do have on the team.

My two bits.

 

[Bruno2]

While I agree we didn't focus on shoring up the right FA talent fr our continued woeful secondary, I have more patience with our D-line.

Mack is a superstar and just the nature of having to double team will continue to open up opportunites for others. Vanderdoes is brand new and has shown some solidity, but he's a rook who is still learning at this level -- I've mostly liked what I've seen. 

I loved the addition of Irvin to pair with Mack in getting pressure -- Irvin was not going to be as dominant as he was with the Seahawks, but he's serviceable in at least attacking soft spots opened up by the O focusing on Mack -- we need to scheme more to do that more, with Irvin and others.

Mario has been oft-injured and this is the first year he's actually been in a successive series of games and while not a pro-bowler, I've mostly liked what I've seen. Jelly isn't dominant but he does what a NT should do well -- plug up space through the middle.

Even Denico Autry looked like he was back on track early and had an amazing preseason, followed by 5 QB pressures and 0.5 sacks with some tackles for losses in the first 3 games or so -- he's tailed off since so I think between him, Hester, and Ward, we need better depth -- overall and situationally in rotation. But not a complete disaster.

Except for Irvin, we've also been operating with zero support for the DLine from our LB corps of Cowser, Lee, Morrow and Calhoun. Bowman coming to the team has created some spark, and Cory James seems to have had a few good games recently, but is also prone to mistakes. 

Honestly, with a couple of shore-up players for better depth/usage, the one thing that will singularly change our defensive ability is getting a new coordinator who actually can bring some sophisticated schemes and gameplans that leverage the talent we do have on the team.

My two bits.

I agree. I guess my point being, is enough scrutiny being put on Reggie and his revamped scouting dept? Obviously, the jury is still out on Conley and Obi but is it fair to place 100% of the blame on Norton? Smith for example, If he was brought in to fit a certain scheme that Norton doesn't implement, why was he signed to begin with? In my opinion,  sounds like the GMs responsibility to sign the right players and do the homework on said players. I'm not calling for Reggie's head or anything like that, but I do think Norton is being unfairly scapegoated. Bottom line, the axe needs to fall on someone,  I get it. They had better defenses in the dark times in the pre Carr/Mack era, and that is depressing part.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I agree. I guess my point being, is enough scrutiny being put on Reggie and his revamped scouting dept? Obviously, the jury is still out on Conley and Obi but is it fair to place 100% of the blame on Norton? Smith for example, If he was brought in to fit a certain scheme that Norton doesn't implement, why was he signed to begin with? In my opinion,  sounds like the GMs responsibility to sign the right players and do the homework on said players. I'm not calling for Reggie's head or anything like that, but I do think Norton is being unfairly scapegoated. Bottom line, the axe needs to fall on someone,  I get it. They had better defenses in the dark times in the pre Carr/Mack era, and that is depressing part.

Totally get it, and I think we always need to scrutinze how our draft picks and FA pickups fare. I held my praise for Reggie for a long time because of it, and he really has won me over with his overall cap and team management. It's not that he can do no wrong, but the things he's done from a macro level in turning around this team was nto only exactly what he needed, but he's had way more hits than fails.

From a microlevel - AKA game level -- we have been failing to gameplan adequately for a few years now. I don't see the right stunts and looks presnap to confuse a D or leverage some of the strenghts we have, or even plug up holes we consistently have (covering TE, limiting big plays on 3rd downs, basic tackling in teh secondary, etc.). I do put the blame for this solely on Norton. 

That may not be completely fair as responsibility lies on more than just one man. But this is one area that continues to regress, and that's inexcuseable, and does lie primarily on the DC.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

While I agree we didn't focus on shoring up the right FA talent fr our continued woeful secondary, I have more patience with our D-line.

Mack is a superstar and just the nature of having to double team will continue to open up opportunites for others. Vanderdoes is brand new and has shown some solidity, but he's a rook who is still learning at this level -- I've mostly liked what I've seen. 

I loved the addition of Irvin to pair with Mack in getting pressure -- Irvin was not going to be as dominant as he was with the Seahawks, but he's serviceable in at least attacking soft spots opened up by the O focusing on Mack -- we need to scheme more to do that more, with Irvin and others.

Mario has been oft-injured and this is the first year he's actually been in a successive series of games and while not a pro-bowler, I've mostly liked what I've seen. Jelly isn't dominant but he does what a NT should do well -- plug up space through the middle.

Even Denico Autry looked like he was back on track early and had an amazing preseason, followed by 5 QB pressures and 0.5 sacks with some tackles for losses in the first 3 games or so -- he's tailed off since so I think between him, Hester, and Ward, we need better depth -- overall and situationally in rotation. But not a complete disaster.

Except for Irvin, we've also been operating with zero support for the DLine from our LB corps of Cowser, Lee, Morrow and Calhoun. Bowman coming to the team has created some spark, and Cory James seems to have had a few good games recently, but is also prone to mistakes. 

Honestly, with a couple of shore-up players for better depth/usage, the one thing that will singularly change our defensive ability is getting a new coordinator who actually can bring some sophisticated schemes and gameplans that leverage the talent we do have on the team.

My two bits.

I have no argument with you points but it validates my original point: they are getting no consistent pressure from anyone but Mack. WTF happened to Ward? Between him and Edwards it seems like Reggie gravitates towards injury prone DLinemen. 

 

[Bruno2]

I have no argument with you points but it validates my original point: they are getting no consistent pressure from anyone but Mack. WTF happened to Ward? Between him and Edwards it seems like Reggie gravitates towards injury prone DLinemen. 

Ha! I think STC, you and I are all correct. I go back to what Bill Parcells said many years ago. Something about not being able to make a great meal without buying the groceries himself. Same concept. Norton's hands are tied. Only so much one can do with late round draft picks, injured players, young guys not living up to expectations etc... Reggie put an emphasis on the Oline, which is great. But at what cost? The defense suffered. He was wrong about Smith, Amerson has regressed, Hayden is turning out to be a solid DB with Detroit and Nelson looks old. 

If you're going to focus on the offense you better hit on your draft picks on the defense, which, other than Mack and Joseph they haven't panned out. The next man up philosophy is great and all, but if there's no one capable to step up, what's a DC to do?

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Reggie used the draft to try and improve the dline. IIRC Edwards, Ward and Vandeross were all draft in rd 3 or earlier. They have not gotten any consistency out of any these players to date. I maintain that a lot of the issues on the back end can be covered up with a consistent pass rush. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I have no argument with you points but it validates my original point: they are getting no consistent pressure from anyone but Mack. WTF happened to Ward? Between him and Edwards it seems like Reggie gravitates towards injury prone DLinemen. 

I actually think Irvin and Mario have helped the pass pressure this year compared to last. Teams are definitely scheming to take Mack out of games and we're not scheming back.

But yes, a lot of work and need for others to step up.

 

[Chaka]

I know Norton wanted to institute a Seattle style heavy rotating 4 man front that pressures QBs without much blitzing and, my personal belief is we have the horses to make that happen. You only need one true star defensive end and Oakland has that guy. And the have tons of young depth that are good enough to get the job done. But Norton is missing something and I think it is probably as simple as him not designing a strong game plan or being able to make good in-game and half time adjustments.

One of the hallmarks of Pete Carroll's tenure at USC, and Seattle too, was/is his in game and halftime adjustments. Typically the plan entering the game was more than enough but they would occasionally start slow and they almost always identified the issue and fixed it. And it wasn't just the superior talent, they did it from his first season, remember he was their third choice for HC at the time.

I just don't think Norton has that ability, and it's not a knock on him as that isn't an easy thing to do in a vacuum, let alone when the other team is trying to do the same thing to you. But I really believe the fundamental problems with the Raiders defense is game plan and coaching related. I think Carroll would annually contend for the division and beyond with this exact roster. when Seattle went to back-to-back Super Bowls their leading pass rusher had 8 & 7.5 sacks respectively (44 & 37 total sacks respectively on the season, 8th and 20th overall. Good but not great numbers). The players need to be better but IMO that's comes with good game planning and coaching smart play as a unit and that seems to be the missing ingredient.

 

[Sarlakticacid]

I think the defense would also be better if the coaches actually let the guys play to their strengths.  We have corners that play better in man and would be better if they could disrupt routes from the start and most of the time they are off the line and in zone.  And if you can't get pressure you need to send extra guys and blitz.  Yeah, this could lead to some big plays, but I'm tired of getting picked apart with no pressure on the QB and they big plays have been happening anyway.

This. If a DC can't adapt to the players they have i don't understand how they keep their jobs

 

[Chaka]

Reggie also spent too much time worrying about keeping Downing and not enough considering that McVay and McDermott were better than Del Rio.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

LOL. There was no way JDR could have been replaced last year. He went 12-4 and he is still the apple of Mark Davis' eye. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I know Norton wanted to institute a Seattle style heavy rotating 4 man front that pressures QBs without much blitzing and, my personal belief is we have the horses to make that happen. You only need one true star defensive end and Oakland has that guy. And the have tons of young depth that are good enough to get the job done. But Norton is missing something and I think it is probably as simple as him not designing a strong game plan or being able to make good in-game and half time adjustments.

One of the hallmarks of Pete Carroll's tenure at USC, and Seattle too, was/is his in game and halftime adjustments. Typically the plan entering the game was more than enough but they would occasionally start slow and they almost always identified the issue and fixed it. And it wasn't just the superior talent, they did it from his first season, remember he was their third choice for HC at the time.

I just don't think Norton has that ability, and it's not a knock on him as that isn't an easy thing to do in a vacuum, let alone when the other team is trying to do the same thing to you. But I really believe the fundamental problems with the Raiders defense is game plan and coaching related. I think Carroll would annually contend for the division and beyond with this exact roster. when Seattle went to back-to-back Super Bowls their leading pass rusher had 8 & 7.5 sacks respectively (44 & 37 total sacks respectively on the season, 8th and 20th overall. Good but not great numbers). The players need to be better but IMO that's comes with good game planning and coaching smart play as a unit and that seems to be the missing ingredient.

Awesome perspective. It is a big leap from LB coach to DC, which is what Norton did. It is not easy, and I give Norton leeway for that.

But on the other hand, as a pro-bowl, SB-winning LB and a SB-winning LB coach, the fact that we had such a weak LB core during his tenure is, well, really puzzling. And if you aren't improving -- as a coach yourself, and improving your squad and game planning -- then you aren't (and shouldn't) last long in that position in the NFL where winning and execution is everything.

As someone who has often called for Norton and Downing's heads on pikes, I am sensitive to the fact that a constantly-changing coach carousel isn't good either - you have to give some continuity not just in your on-field personnel, but your off-field staff as well. There is as much danger in too-short tenures as there is in giving too long of a leash.

But the fact is that we have the general talent to be better -- on both sides of the ball -- and we aren't scheming and adjusting to best take advantage of that talent, and that is something that is inexcuseable to me. Careers in the NFL don't last long, and FA happens -- we need to maximize the presence of guys like Mack, Coop, and Carr while we have them in their prime.

 

[Sarlakticacid]

LOL. There was no way JDR could have been replaced last year. He went 12-4 and he is still the apple of Mark Davis' eye. 

Indeed. Who are the hot names for OC DC this year? That would be available

 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

One name that could be available: Dirk Koetter as OC. If for some strange reason Todd Bowles comes available the Raiders should go after him hard. He is coaching his a$$ off this year with the Jets. 

 

[Chaka]

In New York through the weekend and as luck would have it there is a Raider bar, Peter Dillon's, just down the street on 40th between Lexington and 3rd Ave. Seeing as I was sporting my Raiders beanie and Raiders scarf I felt obligated to go hang with the local peeps. 

Everyone was friendly and the place seems clean, which it had better considering the overwhelming smell throughout the place is that of fresh urinal cake. No joke, the smell punches you in the face as soon as you enter.

Ordering a glass of red wine was not one of my finest decisions.

Five stars! Loved every minute.

 

[Moonshine]

Vontae Davis released by the Colts. Now that's a name I wouldn't mind seeing in our secondary.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Vontae Davis released by the Colts. Now that's a name I wouldn't mind seeing in our secondary.

Colts have officially given Up? 

 

[Chaka]

Colts have officially given Up? 

Doesn't he have a season ending injury? Would love to sign him for the future but it would not impact this season if he's hurt.

 

[Moonshine]

Doesn't he have a season ending injury? Would love to sign him for the future but it would not impact this season if he's hurt.

Yep, this move didn't really impact the Colts and doesn't change anything for this season. He had season ending groin surgery recently, and was scheduled to be a free agent next year anyways. It was no big secret that there was bad blood between him and the organization, so it wouldn't have been surprising for this to be his last season in Indy anyways.

 

[Chaka]

Yep, this move didn't really impact the Colts and doesn't change anything for this season. He had season ending groin surgery recently, and was scheduled to be a free agent next year anyways. It was no big secret that there was bad blood between him and the organization, so it wouldn't have been surprising for this to be his last season in Indy anyways.

Thanks. Would still love it if they got him even if it doesn't pay off for a year.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

It's too bad the Chiefs are on a bye with us this weekend. Would have loved rooting for the perfect storm in seeing the Donks get handled in their own house by the Pats, the Chargers shut down by the Jags' D, and the Chiefs going on to lose their 4th win in 5 games -- instead of forcing the Chiefs to endure that negative momentum, it now gives the Chiefs the chance to rest, restore, and repair.

The Chiefs have a super-cake schedule coming up too, with a Giant team that is in disarray and pretty much given up, and beatable teams in the division and in the AFC East (Jets, Miami). Will be really hard for us to close that 2-game gap with games against the Pats, Cowboys, and Eagles coming up.

Trying to drum up some hope in contesting the lead of our division but I don't see much given comparative schedule, and I fear we are already too far behind to contend for a wildcard.

 

[Ed Wood]

I think the defense would also be better if the coaches actually let the guys play to their strengths. 

Exactly. Work your game plan around your players' strengths instead of trying to make your players adapt to your game plan and tendencies.

 

[Ed Wood]

I agree. I guess my point being, is enough scrutiny being put on Reggie and his revamped scouting dept?...I'm not calling for Reggie's head or anything like that, but I do think Norton is being unfairly scapegoated.

Good points. Lotta blame belongs with Norton IMO, but they opened the season trying to play defense basically without any NFL-caliber linebackers. That falls on the GM.

 

[Sarlakticacid]

Vontae Davis released by the Colts. Now that's a name I wouldn't mind seeing in our secondary.

Next years Jared Cook?

 

[Sarlakticacid]

I heard/read something to the line off Colts hope he signs some where else to get some money off their books.

but S he is a FA next year is the money just this year?

 

[SDJohnny]

No surprise. Conley done for the year. 

http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/DT-Darius-Latham-Reinstated/cfd57adc-6ab1-4124-b6c8-2110fb4ae380

ALAMEDA, Calif. – Oakland Raiders DT Darius Latham has been reinstated to the team's active roster, the club announced Monday. Latham was placed on the Reserve/Suspended List on Oct. 9.

In a corresponding move, the Raiders have placed CB Gareon Conley on the Reserve/Injured List.

 

[kaso]

No surprise. Conley done for the year. 

http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/DT-Darius-Latham-Reinstated/cfd57adc-6ab1-4124-b6c8-2110fb4ae380

ALAMEDA, Calif. – Oakland Raiders DT Darius Latham has been reinstated to the team's active roster, the club announced Monday. Latham was placed on the Reserve/Suspended List on Oct. 9.

In a corresponding move, the Raiders have placed CB Gareon Conley on the Reserve/Injured List.

Where is the unlike button?

 

[SDJohnny]

Not getting anything out of our top draft picks has hurt us this year. Hopefully this isn't a pattern for Conely, but we've already lost one season of his Raider career. 

 

[BustedKnuckles]

https://www.facebook.com/Raiders/videos/1767598449937301/?notif_id=1510621414198502&notif_t=live_video

watch it live now

 

[32 Counter Pass]

No surprise. Conley done for the year. 

http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/DT-Darius-Latham-Reinstated/cfd57adc-6ab1-4124-b6c8-2110fb4ae380

ALAMEDA, Calif. – Oakland Raiders DT Darius Latham has been reinstated to the team's active roster, the club announced Monday. Latham was placed on the Reserve/Suspended List on Oct. 9.

In a corresponding move, the Raiders have placed CB Gareon Conley on the Reserve/Injured List.

First RD DB does not contribute in first year due to injury. Hmmmm, that sounds familiar. DJ Hayden 2.0?

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I think Conley is opting for surgery right now.Seems like the right move as it should fix the issue going forward if it's really stress fractures. Wondering why he didn't do this early and be healthy for a run at the postseason.

Speaking of which, I am in no way holding high hopes, but with the Bills losing their last two, the door is cracked open just enough for us to make a run at sneaking in. The dependency, of course, is to have this team consistently play at a level they haven't exactly managed this year so far. May be too tall an order.

But that said, I have to think at this moment, the Jags will retain their hold on the first WC spot. It's also possible -- maybe even probable -- that they win out the division, but with TEN's super-easy schedule, they may just hold top spot in the AFC South.

So that leaves the Bills who face KC and NE twice. They also get to play MIA twice, though, as well as IND, which may just be their saving grace getting into the post season.

As far as the other scrubs with losing records right now, along with us there is the Ravens, and the aforementioned Jets and Dolphins. I don't see teams with 3 wins suddenly improving (Colts, Texans, Bengals), and I don't see the Broncos suddenly turning things around offensively either. Rivers and the LACs are the only other team I could see turning it around.

So the opportunity is there, even if the matchups are against us.

Will take transforming play on both sides of the ball to make this happen. Which is why this is such a longshot. But it is possible.

 

[kaso]

I think Conley is opting for surgery right now.Seems like the right move as it should fix the issue going forward if it's really stress fractures. Wondering why he didn't do this early and be healthy for a run at the postseason.

Speaking of which, I am in no way holding high hopes, but with the Bills losing their last two, the door is cracked open just enough for us to make a run at sneaking in. The dependency, of course, is to have this team consistently play at a level they haven't exactly managed this year so far. May be too tall an order.

But that said, I have to think at this moment, the Jags will retain their hold on the first WC spot. It's also possible -- maybe even probable -- that they win out the division, but with TEN's super-easy schedule, they may just hold top spot in the AFC South.

So that leaves the Bills who face KC and NE twice. They also get to play MIA twice, though, as well as IND, which may just be their saving grace getting into the post season.

As far as the other scrubs with losing records right now, along with us there is the Ravens, and the aforementioned Jets and Dolphins. I don't see teams with 3 wins suddenly improving (Colts, Texans, Bengals), and I don't see the Broncos suddenly turning things around offensively either. Rivers and the LACs are the only other team I could see turning it around.

So the opportunity is there, even if the matchups are against us.

Will take transforming play on both sides of the ball to make this happen. Which is why this is such a longshot. But it is possible.

I see the Raiders getting to 8-8 (5-3 over the remaining games).  Not sure that will be enough to get into the post season.  They will absolutely need some help.   to get to 10 wins they will need to beat 2 of 3 tough games remaining which include New England, KC, and Philly.   The Dallas, Denver and Chargers games aren't gimmees either. 

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I see the Raiders getting to 8-8 (5-3 over the remaining games).  Not sure that will be enough to get into the post season.  They will absolutely need some help.   to get to 10 wins they will need to beat 2 of 3 tough games remaining which include New England, KC, and Philly.   The Dallas, Denver and Chargers games aren't gimmees either. 

That's the rub. I can see us somehow beating the Pats, given that it's a "home" game for us coming off a bye, but I just don't trust our D to fend off the Pats whose offense looked to be in postseason form.

Really broad range of probability in our W-L record to play out the string -- can see us losing badly to Pats, Philly, KC, Dallas, and to your point, not like we've proven we're that much better than Denver or the Chargers, who always show up to play us.

This team needs the kind of special magic we had last year to pull this off...outside of the KC game, we don't really seem to have that.

 

[kaso]

...outside of the KC game, we don't really seem to have that.

Oh you mean the one game where the play calling finally worked to the favor of the teams talent and abilities.... right.  I remember that fondly. 

 

[Bruno2]

Watching Monday night football last night. We got to see what a great defense looks like. It' no coincidence that the LBs are the strength of the unit. The opposite philosophy Reggie has implemented. I can only hope he takes notice.

 

[Chaka]

Watching Monday night football last night. We got to see what a great defense looks like. It' no coincidence that the LBs are the strength of the unit. The opposite philosophy Reggie has implemented. I can only hope he takes notice.

Meh

 Seattle has been a top defense for years based on strong secondary play and heavy rotation on the d-line.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Meh

 Seattle has been a top defense for years based on strong secondary play and heavy rotation on the d-line.

Having three perennial Pro Bowlers/All Pros shutting down the field anywhere past 7 yards from scrimmage definitely helps mask deficiencies in the midfield or up front. Love them or hate them, The Legion of Doom is super legit -- I can't think of single secondary that is better than the combo of Sherman, Thomas, and Chancellor.

Except, of course, the Soul Patrol of Skip Thomas, George Atkinson, Jack Tatum, and Willie Brown.

 

[Hankmoody]

Meh

 Seattle has been a top defense for years based on strong secondary play and heavy rotation on the d-line.

And outrageous stud LBs.

 

[ICON211]

And outrageous stud LBs.

Yes, Seattle has had really good LBs.  It would be great to have LBs as good as they have had and it would be nice if the position was not completely ignored.

 

[Hankmoody]

Yes, Seattle has had really good LBs.  It would be great to have LBs as good as they have had and it would be nice if the position was not completely ignored.

I think it's Reggie's biggest mistake.  Those guys never come off the field and they are all. over. the. place.  Every time you look up it's Wagner or Wright in the backfield or blowing up a screen or batting a ball in the air.

 

[FreshiZ]

LB's, good thing to have but if Barkley is sitting there when our draft turn comes can we please pick him? New offensive toys are fun!

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Dammit, while I love to see the Raiders on national broadcasts (rarely get to see them in the PNW given the inevitable conflict with the Hawks games) this is one game I think we all have a really bad feeling about. Not sure I want to watch this team get picked apart like a Thanksgiving turkey at the  archetypal obese midwestern family gathering dinner. 

Just seems the state this team is in and the relative momentum we and the Pats have that this is going to be super painful to watch. I foresee myself swearing and throwing things a lot before finally settling down to cry on the couch over the wasting of this special window of opportunity this team has, and by thinking we're no better now than the dark decades of not so long ago (and even more recently form Callahan's second season in 2003 through 2015). 

Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

 

[Chaka]

I think it's Reggie's biggest mistake.  Those guys never come off the field and they are all. over. the. place.  Every time you look up it's Wagner or Wright in the backfield or blowing up a screen or batting a ball in the air.

Have to admit I did forget about Wagner but Wright is good enough but not special and I think we can confidently say that guys like Malcolm Smith and Bruce Irvin weren't either.

I think Wagner is illustrative of the biggest void on the Raiders defense which is a strong MLB something most of us have been saying for years. An all-pro caliber MLB would be great but at this point I would be happy with a Matt Millen type.  Heck, right now I'd settle for Greg Biekert.

Bowman is flashing each week, maybe he can regain his form but I am doubtful he can improve fast enough to be that guy this season.

 

[Hankmoody]

Have to admit I did forget about Wagner but Wright is good enough but not special and I think we can confidently say that guys like Malcolm Smith and Bruce Irvin weren't either.

I think Wagner is illustrative of the biggest void on the Raiders defense which is a strong MLB something most of us have been saying for years. An all-pro caliber MLB would be great but at this point I would be happy with a Matt Millen type.  Heck, right now I'd settle for Greg Biekert.

Bowman is flashing each week, maybe he can regain his form but I am doubtful he can improve fast enough to be that guy this season.

Wright's a lot better than those other guys.  He may not be elite, but he's damn good and doesn't really have to be special with Wagner and others commanding so much attention.  And the thing is those guys are 2nd and 4.02 round picks.  Reggie keeps trying to find fliers in the 6th, 7th, and UDFA but those guys don't develop like that very often.  We end up with Malcolm Smith that way (in more ways than one).  Look at the 2nd-4th round the last few years.  Deion Jones, Erick Kendricks, Kirksey, Schobert, Nick Vigil, Kwon Alexander.  We need to hit on one of those.

Agree we need a Mike, I was hoping Jarrad Davis would be the guy for us and was freaking out wanting Foster when he fell.  Bowman was a great get, because if he returns to form it's a steal and if he returns to 90% he's a huge upgrade.  I think he'll be "full" speed next year, he's already looking a lot quicker/better than early in the season.  He was awful for a while there.

 

[Bossman]

Dammit, while I love to see the Raiders on national broadcasts (rarely get to see them in the PNW given the inevitable conflict with the Hawks games) this is one game I think we all have a really bad feeling about. Not sure I want to watch this team get picked apart like a Thanksgiving turkey at the  archetypal obese midwestern family gathering dinner. 

Just seems the state this team is in and the relative momentum we and the Pats have that this is going to be super painful to watch. I foresee myself swearing and throwing things a lot before finally settling down to cry on the couch over the wasting of this special window of opportunity this team has, and by thinking we're no better now than the dark decades of not so long ago (and even more recently form Callahan's second season in 2003 through 2015). 

Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

Lets not give the Pats too much credit.

Last week DEN gifted them 24 points on special teams plays.

Muffed punt = 7 points

Kickoff return TD = 7 points

Punt blocked = 3 points

Punt return / 12 men on the field penalty when the Pats had 4th and 5 = 7 points

Granted the Pats were able to take advantage of all of these mistakes ... but would've been a very different game had these mistakes not happened.

DEN actually moved the ball pretty well on the Pats in the 1st half. Settled for FG's though.

 

[LawFitz]

Raiders can win a shootout, but they have to go blow for blow and have juice left in the 4th quarter. And they must win or tie the turnover differential.