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2020 MLB Spring Training (2 Viewers)

TheIronSheik said:
Ignore him. He’s still upset that the Astros treat the Yankees like the Yankees treat the Twins in the playoffs. 
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Right? I am a Yankees fan. We got beat in 7 games.....#### happens. That’s baseball. 

This thing is getting so overblown.....but that is typical in today’s 24/7 news cycle, media social media arm pit. 

Hey they got caught cheating.....the GM and Manager are gone. Let’s move on here. Spring training is around the corner.....thank god. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
Ignore him. He’s still upset that the Astros treat the Yankees like the Yankees treat the Twins in the playoffs. 
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I’m telling you...

the Yankees aren’t pure as the driven snow in all this. Like a lot of their fans act like. 

Whether they get caught or not who knows  

 
Todem said:
Right? I am a Yankees fan. We got beat in 7 games.....#### happens. That’s baseball. 

This thing is getting so overblown.....but that is typical in today’s 24/7 news cycle, media social media arm pit. 

Hey they got caught cheating.....the GM and Manager are gone. Let’s move on here. Spring training is around the corner.....thank god. 
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Ok. You lost me, GB. 

 
NREC34 said:
I’m telling you...

the Yankees aren’t pure as the driven snow in all this. Like a lot of their fans act like. 

Whether they get caught or not who knows  
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BLASPHEMY!!!

The Astros and Sox are the only teams to ever cheat and now they’ve ruined baseball forever!

 
shadyridr said:
Then he ran into the dugout assumingly to rip off the device rather then celebrating with his teammates for winning the ALCS.
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Cheaters rob the competition the opportunity to compete.  MLB should ban Astros and Red Sox from competing for 2020.  Send a message otherwise clubs and players won’t care. 

 
Rosenthal had to know or highly suspect something. 

Why would he ask that question in that moment?

I thought it was odd at the time but it makes sense now.

 
Todem said:
This has always been part of the game. And totally acceptable. If your signs are weak that is on you. 

Any type of electronic/tech to steal signs is BS. It is not in the “spirit of the game” at all. 

It is not human to use electronic means. The only acceptable form of stealing signs is simply by the human eye. And using verbal and non verbal cues to tip off hitters has been going on since the beginning of time. 

But this? This is outrageous and goes far and above the game. It is awful and you know who I feel the sickest for? The kids who look up to a lot of these ball players. I had a lot of respect for ball players like Altuve who came from nothing, walked on, was turned away, then signed for 10K and became the AL MVP and a World Series champion. 

This puts a big black eye on things if proven to be true with the buzzer on your freaking body to tip you off. This is just down right bad. 

I have been playing and coaching baseball for over 40 years. We teach players to study pitchers, learn their tendencies and be able to sit on pitches in certain counts by using their IQ and instincts. Not wearing a freaking buzzer, and using camera’s to steal signs.

If we have a guy on second and the catchers signs are picked up on....we can touch our helmet for a fastball....kicks dirt towards the OF for a changeup or curve.....that is old school and the way you “steal signs”. Not using technology to gain an unfair competitive advantage. 

I am sick for the game of baseball right now with all this crap coming out. It is really bad.
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Todem said:
Right? I am a Yankees fan. We got beat in 7 games.....#### happens. That’s baseball. 

This thing is getting so overblown.....but that is typical in today’s 24/7 news cycle, media social media arm pit. 

Hey they got caught cheating.....the GM and Manager are gone. Let’s move on here. Spring training is around the corner.....thank god. 
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Wtf?

 
shadyridr said:
Wtf?
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What I mean by overblown is the fake stories about buzzers now.

Dude...the cheating is crazy. I don’t condone it at all. But there was zero evidence it went on in the 2019 ALCS......that is my point. The MLB did not find any evidence of this going on this past post season. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
More ridiculous than a guy banging a trash can in the dugout to signal them?  Really?
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To me, it's more ridiculous because the player is obviously complicit. Coach bangs on a trash can, you can say that you found it distracting or not that big of a help...but if you intentionally wear a wire, your deniability is gone.

 
JaxBill said:
To me, it's more ridiculous because the player is obviously complicit. Coach bangs on a trash can, you can say that you found it distracting or not that big of a help...but if you intentionally wear a wire, your deniability is gone.
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Nah, he was just mike'd up for that game

 
The worst part of this as an Astro fan is that everything they did will be questioned. It lessens everything they did. I don’t know if Altuve was wearing a wire but it’s plausible to believe it now. The way he acted makes me wonder.

I suspect it might be one of those deals where it’s a secret some know but it never gets out. Sort of like the details of how much money they paid Eric Dickerson and how.

I have to say that scandals like this fascinate me and that “Pony Excess” was maybe the best 30 for 30 I’ve seen. When they do a show on this it will be better if it is done right.

 
One thing that's important to note here is that the players were given full immunity to explain in detail how and when they did this.  One time immunity.  And on top of the immunity, nothing they said was going to be leaked to the public.  With that knowledge, if any of these players did NOT give over every bit of information, that means they could be suspended just like everyone else.  That leads me to believe fairly strongly that there is no additional cheating outside of what was said.  I don't think the Astros were stealing sign during the 2019 season for the simple fact that if they were, and it was somehow found out, their careers would be over.  Forever.  Shoeless Joe Jackson style.

I can't see anyone taking that chance to only detail some of their misdoings.  When life gives you full immunity, you take full immunity.  I would've been blabbering like Chunk in the Goonies. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
MLB has commented on the buzzers. It says it was investigated as part of the report and found no evidence of cheating. 

So we can all sleep well tonight. 
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Protecting the star players imo

 
stlrams said:
Cheaters rob the competition the opportunity to compete.  MLB should ban Astros and Red Sox from competing for 2020.  Send a message otherwise clubs and players won’t care. 
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No this a bit over the top.  Logistically it's impossible now.  Just fine them, take away draft picks and suspend the people involved. 

 
Pipes said:
No this a bit over the top.  Logistically it's impossible now.  Just fine them, take away draft picks and suspend the people involved. 
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MLB made decision not to suspend players due to union.  The maximum fine is $5.0m which is spare change.  I don’t believe your punishment is enough of a deterrent.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
The whole thing is odd.  If the manager goes, the entire staff should go IMO.  You can't say the manager knew and did nothing to stop it and not say the same about all the other coaches.
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In my opinion Crane knew too. The firings are to make himself look honorable. 

 
stlrams said:
MLB made decision not to suspend players due to union.  The maximum fine is $5.0m which is spare change.  I don’t believe your punishment is enough of a deterrent.  
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I would be blown away if anyone tries to steal signs with devices for the next decade or so.

 
shadyridr said:
Im a Yankee fan. I find the buzzer allegation no different than banging the trash can. They are both egregious and equally bad IMO.
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Again you are focusing on the wrong thing with the trash can banging. It is the manner the signs were discovered.

By cameras. Electronic means. That is the cheating. 

People needs to understand that is what thew Astros were busted for. Not for banging on trash cans.

If they picked up the signs with their eyes and wanted to be obnoxious by communicating it via banging on trash cans.....that is their prerogative. 

That is not cheating. That is stealing signs and communicating it....you can do that anyway you want. It is part of the game.

But it was proven they were using a CF video camera footage and using replay room footage to communicate to the dugout...who then tipped off the hitters via trash cans.

Anyway. It was bad what they did. And I am glad the buzzer BS was put to bed. Because yes......that is even worse. It really is. It makes the scam more full proof for the player to get the message from the dugout who in turn was getting it from the cameras. 

But it was not the case and a concocted internet lie. 

And for the last time......The Astros were not doing this in the 2019 post season. They beat our Yankees fair and square. 

 
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Todem said:
Again you are focusing on the wrong thing with the trash can banging. It is the manner the signs were discovered.

By cameras. Electronic means. That is the cheating. 

People needs to understand that is what thew Astros were busted for. Not for banging on trash cans.

If they picked up the signs with their eyes and wanted to be obnoxious by communicating it via banging on trash cans.....that is their prerogative. 

That is not cheating. That is stealing signs and communicating it....you can do that anyway you want. It is part of the game.

But it was proven they were using a CF video camera footage and using replay room footage to communicate to the dugout...who then tipped off the hitters via trash cans.

Anyway. It was bad what they did. And I am glad the buzzer BS was put to bed. Because yes......that is even worse. It really is. It makes the scam more full proof for the player to get the message from the dugout who in turn was getting it from the cameras. 

But it was not the case and a concocted internet lie. 

And for the last time......The Astros were not doing this in the 2019 post season. They beat our Yankees fair and square. 
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I want to believe that. There’s a halfway decent chance all that all the buzzer stuff is true and this thing is way bigger than what we know. 

The report could have been a lot more specific about things than it was. They are definitely afraid of the players union and keeping this story contained to what we know is in their best interest.  

As long as it’s just the Astros and Sox right now I feel a lot of teams and fans are breathing easier while they perpetuate a holier than thou attitude to the teams that have been outed. 

You do seem like a good, level headed Yankee fan and I appreciate that. Guys like you seem to be few and far between on Twitter right now. 

 
Devil’s advocate here... the buzzers have been “put to bed” because MLB didn’t find any evidence of them by reviewing video footage from back then and asking the players if they used them. Right? There’s nothing more definitive than that.

It’s completely possible that they were used but they couldn’t prove anything because it’s hard to prove such a thing after the fact. 

 
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RUSF18 said:
Devil’s advocate here... the buzzers have been “put to bed” because MLB didn’t find any evidence of them by reviewing video footage from back then and asking the players if they used them. Right? There’s nothing more definitive than that.

It’s completely possible that they were used but they couldn’t prove anything because it’s hard to prove such a thing after the fact. 
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Anything is possible.  But the biggest thing I think to look at is still that they were given total immunity to come clean.  And they know if they get caught afterwards, they could be banned from baseball for a year, two years, maybe life.  Do you think they take that chance?  I'm asking seriously.  I don't.  That's my opinion.  And that's all we have right now.  But I can't imagine these guys risking the chance to be kicked out of baseball.  I could be totally wrong.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Anything is possible.  But the biggest thing I think to look at is still that they were given total immunity to come clean.  And they know if they get caught afterwards, they could be banned from baseball for a year, two years, maybe life.  Do you think they take that chance?  I'm asking seriously.  I don't.  That's my opinion.  And that's all we have right now.  But I can't imagine these guys risking the chance to be kicked out of baseball.  I could be totally wrong.  
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What if they came clean about buzzers but mlb doesn’t want it to get out?

Again, a bad look for them that they don’t need. 

3 straight tainted playoffs (that we would know of). 

 
NREC34 said:
What if they came clean about buzzers but mlb doesn’t want it to get out?

Again, a bad look for them that they don’t need. 

3 straight tainted playoffs (that we would know of). 
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I don't think MLB gains anything from only disclosing 2 of 3 years that were tainted.  And they risk way more if it were to ever get out that they covered something up.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Anything is possible.  But the biggest thing I think to look at is still that they were given total immunity to come clean.  And they know if they get caught afterwards, they could be banned from baseball for a year, two years, maybe life.  Do you think they take that chance?  I'm asking seriously.  I don't.  That's my opinion.  And that's all we have right now.  But I can't imagine these guys risking the chance to be kicked out of baseball.  I could be totally wrong.  
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Your opinion is obviously valid but I also find it very possible that players care enough about their legacy, how they’re viewed currently, etc that they would refuse to admit to what they’ve done especially if they think there is no actual evidence of what they may have done.

Hell we’ve already seen this happen with the steroid era.

 
JaxBill said:
To me, it's more ridiculous because the player is obviously complicit. Coach bangs on a trash can, you can say that you found it distracting or not that big of a help...but if you intentionally wear a wire, your deniability is gone.
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The players were obviously complicit either way.

Todem said:
Again you are focusing on the wrong thing with the trash can banging. It is the manner the signs were discovered.

By cameras. Electronic means. That is the cheating. 

People needs to understand that is what thew Astros were busted for. Not for banging on trash cans.
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Yeah but in the message you were quoting it was implied that the means of collecting the signals was cameras either way, the only difference was in how they were relayed.

Basically he was asking why is stealing signs with cameras and then transmitting them via trash can pretty bad, but stealing signs with cameras and then transmitting them via buzzers the worst scandal in the history of anything?

The stealing signs with cameras and relaying them to the players was the bad part.  The method of relay on those electronically stolen signs doesn't seem that important.  It's bad either way.

 
NREC34 said:
What if they came clean about buzzers but mlb doesn’t want it to get out?

Again, a bad look for them that they don’t need. 

3 straight tainted playoffs (that we would know of). 
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I think it's very possible that they investigated the buzzers and told the players they would deny it for them if they confessed to it.  Though of course that is just speculation.

Even as an Astros' fan it seems kind of ****ty that the players are getting a get of jail free card here and we'll never now the circumstances of who and when it was used.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
I think it's very possible that they investigated the buzzers and told the players they would deny it for them if they confessed to it.  Though of course that is just speculation.

Even as an Astros' fan it seems kind of ****ty that the players are getting a get of jail free card here and we'll never now the circumstances of who and when it was used.
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Again, the cover up is 1000 times worse than the crime.  I just can't see MLB covering up the buzzers, but coming clean about everything else.  Buzzers vs. banging a trash can are the same thing.  There's no difference.  They are both the same level of cheating.  Using a buzzer doesn't make it worse.  It doesn't make you know the pitch EVEN MORE.  It's the same thing.

So why would MLB risk someone leaking that they covered up 1/3 of the crime they openly admitted to?

 
NREC34 said:
Sheik, don’t think you’ve commented on this...

Do you find anything unusual to you about the Altuve homer?
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That an MVP hit a home run?  No.  I think if we all want to look at the Astros through the lens of "They might always be cheating", then sure, I'm guessing everything will look suspicious when something good goes their way.  I think for the next decade, every clutch hit they have will be "suspicious."  But do I think Altuve's HR was due to him cheating?  No.  100%.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Again, the cover up is 1000 times worse than the crime.  I just can't see MLB covering up the buzzers, but coming clean about everything else.  Buzzers vs. banging a trash can are the same thing.  There's no difference.  They are both the same level of cheating.  Using a buzzer doesn't make it worse.  It doesn't make you know the pitch EVEN MORE.  It's the same thing.

So why would MLB risk someone leaking that they covered up 1/3 of the crime they openly admitted to?
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The difference is that the MLB was very careful to not pass on who did it and how recently it happened. If the buzzers thing is true and they admitted as much then it would be relatively easy for someome to figure both of those out and make it public knowledge. 

 
Todem said:
Again you are focusing on the wrong thing with the trash can banging. It is the manner the signs were discovered.

By cameras. Electronic means. That is the cheating. 

People needs to understand that is what thew Astros were busted for. Not for banging on trash cans.

If they picked up the signs with their eyes and wanted to be obnoxious by communicating it via banging on trash cans.....that is their prerogative. 

That is not cheating. That is stealing signs and communicating it....you can do that anyway you want. It is part of the game.

But it was proven they were using a CF video camera footage and using replay room footage to communicate to the dugout...who then tipped off the hitters via trash cans.

Anyway. It was bad what they did. And I am glad the buzzer BS was put to bed. Because yes......that is even worse. It really is. It makes the scam more full proof for the player to get the message from the dugout who in turn was getting it from the cameras. 

But it was not the case and a concocted internet lie. 

And for the last time......The Astros were not doing this in the 2019 post season. They beat our Yankees fair and square. 
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Im not focusing on anything. When I say banging on trash can im implying it goes hand in hand with using illegal camera to steal the signs. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
The players were obviously complicit either way.

Yeah but in the message you were quoting it was implied that the means of collecting the signals was cameras either way, the only difference was in how they were relayed.

Basically he was asking why is stealing signs with cameras and then transmitting them via trash can pretty bad, but stealing signs with cameras and then transmitting them via buzzers the worst scandal in the history of anything?

The stealing signs with cameras and relaying them to the players was the bad part.  The method of relay on those electronically stolen signs doesn't seem that important.  It's bad either way.
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Thank you

 
I love how Shiek keeps saying this is not a big deal and it has been going on for hundred years. But what he fails to realize is there are DOZENS of players furious about this scandal. If this has been going on LIKE THIS for hundred years the players wouldn't be furious about this. Its like hes ignoring the people most directly impacted by this yet he keeps saying its no big deal because he played baseball once 20 years ago and it wasn't a big deal.

 
From CC Sabathia:

“F–king ’17, we should have won the World Series,’’ Sabathia said during an episode of his R2C2 podcast with Ryan Ruocco released Thursday. “I don’t care what nobody says. And now that this happened, nobody can ever f–king tell me that we wasn’t gonna win it. We should have won! There’s no way you can tell me we weren’t better than them. I don’t give a f–k what nobody says.”
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Hey CC, Sheik says its not a big deal

 
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Getzlaf15 said:
Dodger fans thinking they should be given the two WS titles are pathetic.
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Dodger fan here and no we don't.  At least not the ones in my circles.  Vacated? Sure.  Awarded to LA?  Hell No.  And I've seen the city council thing and some other reports.  Officials trying to make a name for themselves.

Don't know if its true and may have been already in this thread but I saw a graphic of Altuve's home and away batting splits in the 17 postseason
Home: 36 ab, .472 ave, 6 hrs, 12 rbis, 1.541 ops
Away: 35 ab, .143 ave, 1 hr, 2 rbis, .297 ops

 
Just when Major League Baseball was ready to move on from the Astros cheating scandal, sleuthing baseball fans seemingly uncovered a new layer to the saga.

A series of tweets and videos alleged that Astros players — specifically, Jose Altuve, Josh Reddick and Alex Bregman — were using wearable electronic devices or buzzers to relay the opposing team’s signs during the 2019 season.

This move would have been a significant development from the brazen and out-in-the-open act of beating up a trash can. When a video showed Altuve instructing his teammates not to rip off his jersey after a pennant-winning home run, Altuve explained the moment in October as him being shy — despite numerous instances to the contrary. Fans are now connecting that moment to the buzzer accusation.

And word spread quickly in baseball circles. Big-league players immediately took notice to the new allegations, and they weren’t happy.

I would rather face a player that was taking steroids than face a player that knew every pitch that was coming.

— Alex Wood (@Awood45) January 16, 2020

For the sake of the game I Hope this isn’t true.. if true, there needs to be major consequences to the players. That Completely ruins the integrity of the game!!!

— Cody Bellinger (@Cody_Bellinger) January 16, 2020

AMEN!!! The fact that there hasn’t been any consequences to any players up to this point is wild. https://t.co/zjgsJuuQlK

— Alex Wood (@Awood45) January 16, 2020

I’m in a mood right now after hearing the latest bs teams have been up to.

— Chris Archer (@ChrisArcher22) January 16, 2020

I feel you my bro.

— Marcus Stroman (@STR0) January 16, 2020

Lest we forget

— Daniel Norris (@DanielNorris18) January 16, 2020

What happened to the term “cheaters never prosper”?

— Evan Longoria (@Evan3Longoria) January 16, 2020

This is getting good! pic.twitter.com/RHg2qQRODV

— Kevin Gausman (@KevinGausman) January 16, 2020

These reports of cheating from the @astros are next level. What a joke. If it is in fact % true then the WS in 17 should be stripped as well as all individual awards. Don’t @ me.

— Danny Valencia (@dannyvalencia19) January 16, 2020

All day every day for the rest of time https://t.co/dx5m5bKYh9

— Trevor Bauer (@BauerOutage) January 16, 2020

First time I log in since April. What did I miss?

— Jose Ramirez (@MrLapara) January 16, 2020

** Houston Asterisks **

— Danny Valencia (@dannyvalencia19) January 16, 2020

Sheeeeeeeeeesh.

— Marcus Stroman (@STR0) January 16, 2020

This is crazy. Truly can’t believe all this #### coming out in baseball. Just going to sit back and see how it all plays out. I know my thoughts but those will stay internal. I’ve learned that “no comment” is the best option at times! Lol

— Marcus Stroman (@STR0) January 16, 2020

I need no beers for this lol https://t.co/9OtKr2QQ0s

— Trevor Bauer (@BauerOutage) January 16, 2020

Altuve’s agent, Scott Boras, issued a statement to Sports Illustrated, denying the allegations:

“Jose Altuve called me and said he wants it known that he has never, ever worn an electronic device in a major league game – ever. He never received any form – of a trigger or any information – via an electronic product that was on his body or in his uniform. He has never worn any electronic device. Ever.”

MLB also claimed that its investigators looked into the prospect of electronic devices, but could not come up with evidence. It may be worth another try.
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