GroveDiesel
Footballguy
You certainly have to start asking some questions after how bad the defense bad been the last 2 weeks. They are dead last in the league right now in pass rush.
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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
bostonfred
Footballguy
Tyrod is an ok qb but an awful passer. He's solid as an overall qb but he's a declining asset - he's not likely to improve as much as a passer as he is to decline as a runner over the rest of his career.
He was a great caretaker qb for a good team, but they feel like they've really improved their receivers. Benjamin is a legit starting wr. Mathews is solid. Zay is showing signs of life and has a high ceiling. I think you could make the case that zay's development was held back by an inaccurate qb.
This offense could take a huge step forward if Peterman is ready. Even after back to back losses the bills are alone in 6th place in the afc.
It's not like they're benching Flutie for Rob Johnson again.
He was a great caretaker qb for a good team, but they feel like they've really improved their receivers. Benjamin is a legit starting wr. Mathews is solid. Zay is showing signs of life and has a high ceiling. I think you could make the case that zay's development was held back by an inaccurate qb.
This offense could take a huge step forward if Peterman is ready. Even after back to back losses the bills are alone in 6th place in the afc.
It's not like they're benching Flutie for Rob Johnson again.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
Pretty much agree with all of this. If you're going to insist on running an offense that is bad for Tyrod, then keeping Tyrod in that offense is a bad idea for everybody, including Tyrod. And it's pretty obvious our run blocking is MUCH worse this year than last. Against NO, the pass blocking was generally decent - none of the jail breaks we've been accustomed to as Bills fans, anyway. But the run blocking was awful. And if the whole idea is "we are a run first team", and you can't run, well, what did you think was going to happen?
Given how bad Tyrod looked the past 2 weeks, and that we are still a playoff team at the moment, I think the move makes sense. We'll see how the O-line does against that Chargers pass rush - this might be exactly the wrong week to go away from a scrambling QB.
But it was shocking how well the offense moved when Peterman came in. Obviously the Saints were in prevent defense, but I would assume that was true for the whole fourth quarter. It's possible they pulled a couple of starters so that might have been the difference - I don't know what personnel they had at the end. But if they were running the same defense the entire fourth quarter and same personnel, then Peterman was simply in a different class than Taylor.
I do expect success for a while for Peterman - it seems it always takes about 4 weeks of film for teams to figure out the weak spots of a rookie. So assuming Peterman looks good for a while, the time to pass judgment will start in Week 15 or so. And as luck would have it, we play Bellichick's defense on the road in Week 16. If he looks good that week (even if we don't win), then we've found our franchise QB.
Let’s be real here: it doesn’t matter what their record currently is, this team was never a playoff contender. They’ll now evaluate what they have in Peterman for a stretch and see where he stands come Draft time.
They know what they have in Tyrod: a QB afraid to generate anything of substance when they’re losing.
They know what they have in Tyrod: a QB afraid to generate anything of substance when they’re losing.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I will say I'm a bit surprised at the timing- I fully expect the Bills to lose their next 3 games (although with how unpredictable the NFL has been this year watch them go out and win 2/3), so making a switch after that would be been much less "controversial". It's kind of refreshing to see a coach take a stand, now let's see what happens.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
This.
McDermott has lost faith in Dennison. Dennison has lost faith in himself, resulting in him reaching out to Castilo (OL coach) asking what they need to do to get the run game going. Tyrod is a shotgun QB, he was under center a bunch and didn't have many roll outs, options etc as I would have liked.
Not comparing him to Goff, but Goff was trash with a trash OC last year, new-age coach and spread attack and poof Goff is solid this year.
Taylor has been above average. Not a long term answer but this switch should have happened after loss 7.
McDermott will look foolish if Peterman gets destroyed in a couple road games.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Crazy - was the first thing we noticed when the schedule was released. Done with the Jets and yet we play NE, Miami, NE, Miami. Should be interesting.
Better hope they are in contention or another 50% empty stadium they'll be trying to sell with again 3 December home games.
Always 3 December home games
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Still will be able to trade up to get a QB they like even if they are picking 10-20 range. Have enough picks to move up to get the 2nd or 3rd QB if they like whoever that is.
Just seems like this is the game of the season to determine the playoffs.
You need your 6th win either this week or next to have a chance at getting 9 wins.
bb7278
Footballguy
As much as I respect Tyrod and all the hard work he put in, I expect to see a quicker more decisive offense under Peterman. I was just listening to Pat Bostick/Pitt QB ahead of Peterman who is the asst. AD there now, he had nothing but optimism about Peterman. In my mind Peterman does QB things quicker than Tyrod (progression/decision-making/delivery time), we'll see how it plays out.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm glad to see that the coaching staff has already given up on the season at 5-4. That spares me the need to manage my own expectations.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Hopefully long enough to give him a good evaluation. As I mentioned right after the last game I was hoping they'd make this move and give him 3-4 games to really see what he can do. If they want to put Tyrod back in for the last couple games because the lockerroom is getting frustrated, then I don't have a problem with that.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
I love this move.
The other teams all know how to beat Tyrod....make him be a QB.
Think about that statement......
The guy is afraid to throw the ball. It was embarrassingly pointed out by Romo on Thurs night football.
"You have to throw outside the numbers here"
Think about how easy it is to defend a team when you know there will only be 2-3 throws A GAME more than 12 yards downfield to a WR.
It is sad because he has some of the skills of R Wilson. But he won't throw it unless he is sure the guy is open....he doesn't recognize that just because the guy is covered doesn't mean he isn't open.
The other teams all know how to beat Tyrod....make him be a QB.
Think about that statement......
The guy is afraid to throw the ball. It was embarrassingly pointed out by Romo on Thurs night football.
"You have to throw outside the numbers here"
Think about how easy it is to defend a team when you know there will only be 2-3 throws A GAME more than 12 yards downfield to a WR.
It is sad because he has some of the skills of R Wilson. But he won't throw it unless he is sure the guy is open....he doesn't recognize that just because the guy is covered doesn't mean he isn't open.
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dhockster
Footballguy
This is Dennison's first season as an OC when he didn't have Kubiak or Shanahan over him. I am always a little skittish about those coaches because I wonder how much they were actually running the offense, and how much of it was being run by the head coach. Kubiak was pretty inflexible with changing his system, so I think the GM's for the Broncos and Texans looked to bring in lineman and running backs who fit the zone blocking scheme, rather than change the scheme to fit the players. I wish you guys well with Dennison, but he wouldn't give me a lot of confidence going forward.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Well I think we need more than luck with him. Maybe we can get Hue next year, 4 years after when we should have gotten him.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Some other ways to look at this move.
Tyrod can only win with a good D. Maybe they have realized the D is not good (see last two games).
Can the rookie pass the ball around and score a bunch of points....probably not but who knows. They KNOW Tyrod cannot.
Also, it is the ultimate boom/bust move that is good either way.
The rookie is good and they get in playoffs....great.
The rookie is bad and they lose every game....great. They know what they have and they also have a higher draft pick.
Worst case is to keep the hope alive with Tyrod, end 8-8 and get a worse pick, no time to evaluate the rookie and no playoffs.
This is the "typical Bills" path they were on.
Coach made a bold move to change that fate.
Tyrod can only win with a good D. Maybe they have realized the D is not good (see last two games).
Can the rookie pass the ball around and score a bunch of points....probably not but who knows. They KNOW Tyrod cannot.
Also, it is the ultimate boom/bust move that is good either way.
The rookie is good and they get in playoffs....great.
The rookie is bad and they lose every game....great. They know what they have and they also have a higher draft pick.
Worst case is to keep the hope alive with Tyrod, end 8-8 and get a worse pick, no time to evaluate the rookie and no playoffs.
This is the "typical Bills" path they were on.
Coach made a bold move to change that fate.
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
From an outsiders perspective the above is spot on.
The real mind job here is to speculate over whether or not mgt knew that Dareus leaving would unleash the floodgates.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I'll be upset if Dennison isn't fired after this season. He has made a total mess of the offense. If the organization really is going to hold every single person accountable, then Dennison should be gone after this season.
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
Really? What's the point of that? If the Bills are out of the playoffs by the last couple games what good does it do to put Tyrod back in there? They're clearly not keeping him after this year. You might as well just ride out Peterman and see if he improves at all. I don't think there's any turning back at this point. If they had any intention of possibly putting Taylor back in there they wouldn't have done the switch while they still hold the #6 seed in the playoffs.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
You don't want to lose the lockerroom. A lot of guys other than Tyrod will be back next year.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Come on 5-11!
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The problem is, I don't trust anyone in charge right now to build this team anyway. And I seriously doubt they get canned. This team is going to be a dumpster fire for a lot longer.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Schopp ripping McDermott right now after the presser. Calls the Bills a national joke and calls the decision to start Peterman "unconscionable". Frankly, he's not wrong.
I want to but at 5-2 trade Dareus (granted not player he was) and next 2 games get gashed on ground. And then this disaster...what reason do Bills fans have to trust anyone these days?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It's seriously like we're deliberately trying to lose. The early wins were screwing things up, so we traded away more talent and made a questionable QB switch at the first opportunity. It's all logical when viewed that way.
And the AFC is a joke - KC losing to NYG? From 5-2, 4-5 makes playoffs & we still f it up.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
With that D you think Taylor goes 4-3 against that schedule? Good luck.
Coach gave himself a fighters chance, and took it on the chin in the opening minutes for a brutal KO.
Better that than a slow death over the next 7 weeks.
Would rather go 5-11 than 8-8. The opening record was smoke and mirrors, this team is terrible.
Coach gave himself a fighters chance, and took it on the chin in the opening minutes for a brutal KO.
Better that than a slow death over the next 7 weeks.
Would rather go 5-11 than 8-8. The opening record was smoke and mirrors, this team is terrible.
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The Duff Man
Footballguy
The Dareus trade is worse than this QB move, as the D looks like their heart was ripped out.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
A while ago I said I was getting Schiano vibes from McDermott. I still am.
What are you Bills fans thinking of McDermott? I understand wanting to go to Peterman eventually, but traveling cross country against the Chargers defensive backs, with a mish mash of receivers? The timing was questioned throughout the week and for good measure, how do you not go back Tyrod after that game... just looks so bad for the Bills org, McDeromott, and of course Peterman.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
The first 3 picks were not on Peterman. First one hit the FB right in the hands, pops it up, pick 6. Every QB in the league would have had the same result from that throw and combination. If you want to question anything about that play, question the guy that called it, and who also loved making the same type of calls when Tolbert was in there
Next 2 he was hit as he threw, and in neither case did he hold the ball too long, although they were going deep both times so it had to take a little time for the play to develop. On the 3rd pick Joey Bosa came in unblocked through the dumpster fire that we call our offensive line. Seems to me some kind of coach would have told somebody "try to block that Bosa guy" - I know he can still beat people that try to block him, but at least TRY. And why the heck are you dialing up deep passing plays with a rookie QB on the road against one of the best pass rushes in the league - and also against a defense that was getting ripped apart by LeSean McCoy.
Pick 4 was clearly on the QB, I didn't see pick 5. But by this time Peterman's confidence is completely shot. I don't blame McDermott for putting Peterman in. I do blame the same crappy offensive coordinator who refused to design plays that would play to Taylor's strengths, and then pretended he had a decent offensive line (when he obviously does not) while his top 2 WR are out with injuries (Benjamin and Matthews) and who keeps calling deep shots (and not going max protect either).
I don't think you can make any judgments on Peterman after this game. You can make the judgment that Tyrod Taylor was not the problem, or certainly not in the top 3 of problems facing the offense. Those top 3 would be the Offensive Coordinator, the right guard, and the right tackle. Certainly Tyrod had gotten used to the fact that the right side stunk, and made some of his brilliant escapes when getting rushed from that side. He would not have attempted the throw that was Peterman's third pick because he would have seen (and EXPECTED to see) Bosa coming in on him and would have tried to escape. So in that sense you could say Tyrod was superior to Peterman and would not have made that particular mistake.
But I think you can say definitively that Rick Dennison does not belong in the NFL, in any capacity.
Next 2 he was hit as he threw, and in neither case did he hold the ball too long, although they were going deep both times so it had to take a little time for the play to develop. On the 3rd pick Joey Bosa came in unblocked through the dumpster fire that we call our offensive line. Seems to me some kind of coach would have told somebody "try to block that Bosa guy" - I know he can still beat people that try to block him, but at least TRY. And why the heck are you dialing up deep passing plays with a rookie QB on the road against one of the best pass rushes in the league - and also against a defense that was getting ripped apart by LeSean McCoy.
Pick 4 was clearly on the QB, I didn't see pick 5. But by this time Peterman's confidence is completely shot. I don't blame McDermott for putting Peterman in. I do blame the same crappy offensive coordinator who refused to design plays that would play to Taylor's strengths, and then pretended he had a decent offensive line (when he obviously does not) while his top 2 WR are out with injuries (Benjamin and Matthews) and who keeps calling deep shots (and not going max protect either).
I don't think you can make any judgments on Peterman after this game. You can make the judgment that Tyrod Taylor was not the problem, or certainly not in the top 3 of problems facing the offense. Those top 3 would be the Offensive Coordinator, the right guard, and the right tackle. Certainly Tyrod had gotten used to the fact that the right side stunk, and made some of his brilliant escapes when getting rushed from that side. He would not have attempted the throw that was Peterman's third pick because he would have seen (and EXPECTED to see) Bosa coming in on him and would have tried to escape. So in that sense you could say Tyrod was superior to Peterman and would not have made that particular mistake.
But I think you can say definitively that Rick Dennison does not belong in the NFL, in any capacity.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
"The first 3 picks were not the quarterback's fault" -- how often do you get a chance to hear that sentence??
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
When the Bills announced the change, I was optimistic, trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I am not a Tyrod hater, though I recognize his limitations. I think he's an average NFL QB - what he lacks in certain instances (throwing over the middle, throwing WRs open), he makes up with intangibles, running ability, ability to throw on the run, ability to break the pocket and extend plays. I firmly believe he is a solid middle-of-the-road NFL starting QB. He can take a team to the playoffs with a good defense and good supporting cast. He's not the kind of QB who is going to carry a team on a deep playoff run or put a team on his back in a crucial late-game situation. I've been pretty solid on this belief, in general, for awhile now.
I found it extremely hard to believe that Peterman is better than Tyrod right now. A 5th round pick who looked solid-yet-unspectacular in preseason vs. a solid NFL vet. But to a certain extent, I trusted "the process". One thing that the Beane/McDermott administration has shown over the past few months is a somewhat-clear vision of the future. Trading players who didn't fit the mold for draft picks. Moving salary cap problems. It may not always be clean, but compared to the clown show that became of the Whaley/Ryan administration, "the process" is a breath of fresh air.
With that in mind, I went into today's game with an open mind. In my discussions with friends this week, I felt the QB change was early, maybe premature, but I was comfortable with "the process" and the fact that the coaching staff sees Peterman in practice all week and must feel like he's a viable alternative to Tyrod. Maybe they don't think he's better right now, but they think he can compete and either sink or swim over the next 7 weeks. Maybe he looks good and the Bills have a QB and they sneak into the playoffs. Maybe he flounders and they flop and put themselves in a better position for the draft next year.
But what happened today was an unmitigated disaster. Peterman was woefully unprepared and looked totally out of his depth. He should've never been put in that position. Today was a total 100% coaching failure. This the kind of game that goes down in team lore and ruins a player's career. I'm not going to write-off Beane/McDermott entirely based on this, but this certainly cools the jets on "the process" significantly. How do you put this kid in the game so unbelievably unprepared? Whose decision was this? I will grant that the first INT isn't on him, it's on DiMarco, but the other 4? Come the #### on. Yes, Peterman was getting hammered, but you know who else gets hammered on a weekly basis and doesn't turn the ball over (or finds ways to extend plays and break the pocket)? Tyrod ####### Taylor. Today showed just how much Tyrod's play masks the inefficiencies of this offense and the failures of the offensive coaching staff.
And this doesn't even address the defense.....
I found it extremely hard to believe that Peterman is better than Tyrod right now. A 5th round pick who looked solid-yet-unspectacular in preseason vs. a solid NFL vet. But to a certain extent, I trusted "the process". One thing that the Beane/McDermott administration has shown over the past few months is a somewhat-clear vision of the future. Trading players who didn't fit the mold for draft picks. Moving salary cap problems. It may not always be clean, but compared to the clown show that became of the Whaley/Ryan administration, "the process" is a breath of fresh air.
With that in mind, I went into today's game with an open mind. In my discussions with friends this week, I felt the QB change was early, maybe premature, but I was comfortable with "the process" and the fact that the coaching staff sees Peterman in practice all week and must feel like he's a viable alternative to Tyrod. Maybe they don't think he's better right now, but they think he can compete and either sink or swim over the next 7 weeks. Maybe he looks good and the Bills have a QB and they sneak into the playoffs. Maybe he flounders and they flop and put themselves in a better position for the draft next year.
But what happened today was an unmitigated disaster. Peterman was woefully unprepared and looked totally out of his depth. He should've never been put in that position. Today was a total 100% coaching failure. This the kind of game that goes down in team lore and ruins a player's career. I'm not going to write-off Beane/McDermott entirely based on this, but this certainly cools the jets on "the process" significantly. How do you put this kid in the game so unbelievably unprepared? Whose decision was this? I will grant that the first INT isn't on him, it's on DiMarco, but the other 4? Come the #### on. Yes, Peterman was getting hammered, but you know who else gets hammered on a weekly basis and doesn't turn the ball over (or finds ways to extend plays and break the pocket)? Tyrod ####### Taylor. Today showed just how much Tyrod's play masks the inefficiencies of this offense and the failures of the offensive coaching staff.
And this doesn't even address the defense.....
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dhockster
Footballguy
The Duff Man
Footballguy
If the coach believes the team won't win with Tyrod because of the defense, should he accept the loss and roll him out there?
Or take a wild stab with the rookie and see what happens?
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
I wouldn't be surprised if Pegula was more involved than he lets on. He's constantly having meetings behind the scenes. McDermott said last Sunday Tyrod was his starter, then Monday said it again and confirmed he watched most of the film, then Wednesday it changes. More and more talk about winning now and the future. Pure BS. Peterman was awful. Tyrod isn't as bad as unintelligent fans make him out to be. He's middle of the pack, fine whatever, look at the trash QB's starting around the league. If I was a vet on the team I'd be pissed. 5-4 and in the playoffs and you make this move. I don't care if they have been over-achieving. The AFC sucks, you owe it to your fan base to get into the playoffs and then draft a guy. You have plenty of ammo to get a QB if you want, 2018 and 2019 picks be damned. Play Peterman when the * is in the paper and you're eliminated. It's like a meme I saw yesterday... Cracks in the foundation (offensive line) - hole in the window (defense), leaky roof (OC) but let's replace the Door (Tyrod)
Peterman gave them 27 points. Give me Tyrod's 180 yards 1TD and 40 rushing and a TD with 0-1 turnover's and McCoy 20+ times. It's a shame Shady just didn't get the ball enough when he was running well with 6 offensive lineman because his QB #### himself. Peterman checked down just as much as Tyrod does, also had a nice deep ball thrown out of bounds as well. The play calling is a joke.
It's also sooooooooo Billsy that Benjamin hurts his knee on the first play on Peterman's only good play.
Believe it or not, a guy we tailgate with on road games only - works for the Bills and travels with the team said BEFORE the Atlanta game that a lot of guys on the team aren't a fan of McDermott. Winning changes all that of course, but thought that was interesting none the less. He's been pretty on before with what he hears.
I can't wait till we have a new front seven. Our LB's are finally getting exposed which they should have been from the start. Brown and Alexander are terrible. Milano finally replaced Humber. Now Hyde and Benjamin are banged up.
I obviously think the season is over but will always be optimistic. You need your 6th win prior to the Colts game to have ANY chance (unlikely) but that's my hope. It just pisses me off because the AFC is soooo bad and your coaching staff is playing the "We are going to win now and the future and do what's best for this team"
Unloading Dareus' contract was the right decision but it's frustrating watching overrated Buffalo hero Kyle Williams and his 8.5m get gashed and Dareus plug holes for Jacksonville. Buffalo loves rooting for those gym class hero late round/undrafted. Freddy/Stevie/Kyle Williams. Kyle hasn't done anything productive in years. Retire please.
Denver just fired Mike McCoy - Buffalo needs to do something.
Pegula better do something. I'm tired of watching both teams embarrass themselves.
-9.5 in arrowhead after they should be extra pissed losing to the Giants.
Rant over.
At least it's a short work week.
Peterman gave them 27 points. Give me Tyrod's 180 yards 1TD and 40 rushing and a TD with 0-1 turnover's and McCoy 20+ times. It's a shame Shady just didn't get the ball enough when he was running well with 6 offensive lineman because his QB #### himself. Peterman checked down just as much as Tyrod does, also had a nice deep ball thrown out of bounds as well. The play calling is a joke.
It's also sooooooooo Billsy that Benjamin hurts his knee on the first play on Peterman's only good play.
Believe it or not, a guy we tailgate with on road games only - works for the Bills and travels with the team said BEFORE the Atlanta game that a lot of guys on the team aren't a fan of McDermott. Winning changes all that of course, but thought that was interesting none the less. He's been pretty on before with what he hears.
I can't wait till we have a new front seven. Our LB's are finally getting exposed which they should have been from the start. Brown and Alexander are terrible. Milano finally replaced Humber. Now Hyde and Benjamin are banged up.
I obviously think the season is over but will always be optimistic. You need your 6th win prior to the Colts game to have ANY chance (unlikely) but that's my hope. It just pisses me off because the AFC is soooo bad and your coaching staff is playing the "We are going to win now and the future and do what's best for this team"
Unloading Dareus' contract was the right decision but it's frustrating watching overrated Buffalo hero Kyle Williams and his 8.5m get gashed and Dareus plug holes for Jacksonville. Buffalo loves rooting for those gym class hero late round/undrafted. Freddy/Stevie/Kyle Williams. Kyle hasn't done anything productive in years. Retire please.
Denver just fired Mike McCoy - Buffalo needs to do something.
Pegula better do something. I'm tired of watching both teams embarrass themselves.
-9.5 in arrowhead after they should be extra pissed losing to the Giants.
Rant over.
At least it's a short work week.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
You cut out the entire part of my post where I said I was optimistic about the move given exactly what you're saying here. If the Bills have written off Tyrod as the long-term solution to win it all - note that I don't say break the drought, I'm talking about the long-term future - then there is no harm in my mind in playing Nathan Peterman right now ASSUMING he is prepared and ready to be a QB in the NFL. He was not ready yesterday. Some of that is on him - he's not at that level yet - and some of that is a coaching failure in terms of (1) not having your players ready to play and (2) grossly misunderstanding your player's ability at this point in time.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Has there ever been an ownership group in the 4 major sports that clearly tries so hard to win yet totally have no idea how to manage pro sports franchises as much as the Pegulas?
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Tommy Collins
Footballguy
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