What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2021 Cleveland Browns - (1 Viewer)

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Watson trade was a combination of many things including last year's BUF/KC playoff game.

-----------------------------------

Matt Miller@nfldraftscout
Very good point.

Daniel Jeremiah@MoveTheSticks

The BUF/KC playoff game was a turning point moment in the NFL. The quality of QB play was off the charts and it had to hit home with every HC/GM/Owner. Is my QB good enough to compete with that???

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last year the Rams traded to improve their QB position and spent more than the rest of the league and won a SB.  The NFL tends to copycat successful strategies.   

I feel the Browns supporting cast is good and that a good team can win with a top 12 to 15 QB but can they beat Mahomes or Josh Allen in the post season?  

I always saw Watson getting suspended, so I figured the trade was a long-term solution at QB.  Watson hasn't played in a year, would be facing a suspension, would be rusty, and the rest of the AFC is stacked.  I was looking to next year which 'could' bring an unexpected additional $50 million in cap space.  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Watson trade was a combination of many things including last year's BUF/KC playoff game.

-----------------------------------

Matt Miller@nfldraftscout
Very good point.

Daniel Jeremiah@MoveTheSticks

The BUF/KC playoff game was a turning point moment in the NFL. The quality of QB play was off the charts and it had to hit home with every HC/GM/Owner. Is my QB good enough to compete with that???

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last year the Rams traded to improve their QB position and spent more than the rest of the league and won a SB.  The NFL tends to copycat successful strategies.   

I feel the Browns supporting cast is good and that a good team can win with a top 12 to 15 QB but can they beat Mahomes or Josh Allen in the post season?  

I always saw Watson getting suspended, so I figured the trade was a long-term solution at QB.  Watson hasn't played in a year, would be facing a suspension, would be rusty, and the rest of the AFC is stacked.  I was looking to next year which 'could' bring an unexpected additional $50 million in cap space.  
I pretty much agree with every point made, including Daniel Jeremiah's point. At what point do you look at your QB and think that you realistically can win a game against an Allen or Mahomes? Especially if that's what it's going to take to get to a Super Bowl. Very few teams have QBs that can rival those two guys. Watson, when he's on, is one of those guys. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cleveland’s roster now boasts a player earning top-10 money for their position at quarterback, running back, wide receiver, tight end, left guard, right guard, edge defender and cornerback. They’re extremely talented on paper, but it’s put up or shut up time for this nucleus of players.

 

Uruk-Hai

Footballguy
I pretty much agree with every point made, including Daniel Jeremiah's point. At what point do you look at your QB and think that you realistically can win a game against an Allen or Mahomes? Especially if that's what it's going to take to get to a Super Bowl. Very few teams have QBs that can rival those two guys. Watson, when he's on, is one of those guys. 
In the AFC, I'd say Watson, Herbert, Jackson, Burrow, Wilson can all go toe-to-toe with Mahomes & Allen. I'd be tempted to throw Las Vegas and the Colts in there, too. Not all of these teams would have a chance against KC or Buffalo based solely on their QB, but many would. I'd take Herbert, Jackson, or Burrow in a playground shootout and like my chances. And, outside of Wilson & Ryan, the best are all kids so they're not going away any time soon. I've been watching the NFL since the 1960s and I've never seen so many talented QBs playing at one time.

The AFC is stupidly deep. There's gonna be a team missing the playoffs that would be a 3 seed in the NFC. Cleveland (with Watson) would be favored to win the NFC East and probably the North; they'd be 2nd favorites in the other two divisions (I think they're better than TB, but may be on an island there). And they - like Baltimore, Cincy, and Pittsburgh - are gonna have to fight like hell just to get out of their own division.......only to have to deal with KC, Buffalo, LAC, Denver, Indy, Tenn, LV, Miami, NE, etc...

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Not all of these teams would have a chance against KC or Buffalo
Um, I dunno.  Baker Mayfield nearly beat KC in KC two years ago with a defense that was truly awful, and an entire team devastated with Covid if you recall.  

I honestly think any NFL team with a solid roster 'can win' with a top 12 to 15 QB who is careful and does not hurt their team with mistakes/turnovers/etc.  Having a 'top-notch' QB gives a huge advantage during the regular season.  Home field advantage matters in the post season more than people realize so stacking regular season wins, getting a bye and home field is the HUGE advantage of having an 'uber' QB IMHO.

Once the playoffs begin, the teams with home field hold a huge advantage, but solid QB play combined with a strong roster can win close games.  

We have all done the math and know that at least one strong team in the AFC will not 'make' the playoffs but I wouldn't dismiss any team with a top 12 to 15 QB with a strong roster who makes the post season.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Uruk-Hai

Footballguy
Um, I dunno.  Baker Mayfield nearly beat KC in KC two years ago with a defense that was truly awful, and an entire team devastated with Covid if you recall.  

I honestly think any NFL team with a solid roster 'can win' with a top 12 to 15 QB who is careful and does not hurt their team with mistakes/turnovers/etc.  Having a 'top-notch' QB gives a huge advantage during the regular season.  Home field advantage matters in the post season more than people realize so stacking regular season wins, getting a bye and home field is the HUGE advantage of having an 'uber' QB IMHO.

Once the playoffs begin teams with home field is huge, but solid QB play combined with a strong roster can win close games. 

We have all done the math and know that at least one strong team in the AFC will not 'make' the playoffs but I wouldn't dismiss any team with a top 12 to 15 QB with a strong roster who makes the post season.  
Even better and reinforces my point that the top two aren't unbeatable. Hell, neither even made the SB last year. The Ravens beat KC last year with no RBs, half an OL, and a decimated DB room.

Agree with your other points.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Adam Carter@SmartfootbalI

Highest graded CBs in single coverage.. (PFF)

1. Jalen Ramsey, 90.1

2. JC Jackson, 88.2

3. Denzel Ward, 85.2

4. AJ Terrell, 78.7

5. Greg Newsome, 73.6

Tiering the NFL’s Best Cornerback Duos in 2022

Tier 2

Tier 2 consists of the duos that possess one star CB with a solid option at CB2. Most of the No. 2 corners here are younger options who aren’t as polished or versatile just yet. This tier possesses playmakers such as the Chargers duo, or lockdown options such as the Bills and Rams.

Cleveland Browns: Denzel Ward, Greg Newsome II

Los Angeles Rams: Jalen Ramsey, Troy Hill

Buffalo Bills: Tre’Davious White, Taron Johnson

Los Angeles Chargers: JC Jackson, Asante Samuel Jr

Atlanta Falcons: AJ Terrell, Casey Hayward Jr

------------------------------------------------------------------------

2022 NFL secondary rankings: Baltimore Ravens, Tampa Bay Buccaneers take top spots

3. CLEVELAND BROWNS

CB: Denzel Ward
CB: Greg Newsome II
NCB: Greedy Williams
S: John Johnson III
S: Grant Delpit

This unit not only has proven studs in Ward and Johnson, but also three ascending top-50 draft picks who have all played two or fewer NFL seasons. What this unit could be is scary to think about, as we already saw quality play from Newsome, Williams and Delpit down the stretch in 2021.

--------------------------------

Browns secondary gets very high ranking from PFF

...Even better, the Browns have enviable depth with the likes of Ronnie Harrison, A.J. Green and third-round rookie Martin Emerson all capable of playing bigger roles than projected.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

The Browns cannot be taken seriously as a contender with their defensive tackle room as it currently stands. It's the worst in the league. By far.

Interior Defensive Line Unit Ranks

32 Cleveland Browns - Jordan Elliott, Sheldon Day, Taven Bryan, Tommy Togiai, Perrion Winfrey
I had completely forgotten about this guy but loved him prior to the draft when he came out.  He fell due to a heart condition; thought he was a bargain.  

I would take a gamble on him.

Stumbled on this article tailored to the Jets but he'd fit the Browns IMHO.

IF he is a possible cut then I think AB could swing a deal for a late pick.  I think we really need another starting caliber DT and always liked Mo Hurst.

Jets Need ‘Disruptive Penetrator’ Expected to Be Cut by 49ers

The New York Jets will be closely monitoring the waiver wire to find some hidden gems ahead of the 2022 season.

One player is expected to shake free which could make a tremendous impact on the green and white.

Nick Wagoner covers the San Francisco 49ers for ESPN and he was recently responsible for predicting the final 53-man roster in June.

In his prognostications, he had one very interesting player just missing the cut in defensive tackle Maurice Hurst.

Wagoner called the battle on the interior something “to watch” and listed Hurst as one of the competitors for those final spots.

The 27-year-old originally entered the league back in 2018 as the No. 140 overall pick in the fifth round. Although he was projected to go much higher with some saying he was a “first round” kind of player in that class but a heart issue discovered at the NFL combine scared a few teams off.

In the NFL that has proven to be a non-issue thankfully and Hurst has developed into quite the player:

...Coming out of college, Hurst was heralded as a “disruptive penetrator” but his ability in run defense certainly stands out as well.

In limited action last season, Hurst finished with a career-high 75.2 PFF grade against the run.

Although the larger sample size reveals an affinity for sacking the opposing quarterback via Pro Football Focus:

78.5 grade

77.8 grade

65.5 grade

 

TwinTurbo

Footballguy
Watson trade was a combination of many things including last year's BUF/KC playoff game.

-----------------------------------

Matt Miller@nfldraftscout
Very good point.

Daniel Jeremiah@MoveTheSticks

The BUF/KC playoff game was a turning point moment in the NFL. The quality of QB play was off the charts and it had to hit home with every HC/GM/Owner. Is my QB good enough to compete with that???

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last year the Rams traded to improve their QB position and spent more than the rest of the league and won a SB.  The NFL tends to copycat successful strategies.   

I feel the Browns supporting cast is good and that a good team can win with a top 12 to 15 QB but can they beat Mahomes or Josh Allen in the post season?  

I always saw Watson getting suspended, so I figured the trade was a long-term solution at QB.  Watson hasn't played in a year, would be facing a suspension, would be rusty, and the rest of the AFC is stacked.  I was looking to next year which 'could' bring an unexpected additional $50 million in cap space.  
It's not only that but can a team even make the playoffs, let alone win a Superbowl, without improving the QB situation, especially if you play in the same division as a Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow. 

Look at the Patriots. For 20 years they had Brady and none of the other three teams in the AFC East had a franchise QB or even a good QB the entire time. It's not like that anymore. Josh Allen is king of the hill now in the AFC East and the rest of the AFC is stacked too like you said. 

I don't agree with the guaranteed money the Browns gave to Watson, but I get why they did it. 

 

beer 30

Footballguy
Browns trading Baker to Carolina has disaster written all over it with playing at Carolina opening week.  With no Watson on the road vs Baker I could see losing that game and how that will hurt.  Cleveland has 1 win since 1999 on opening week.
Prolific...

:bye:  Baker  :popcorn:

I was planning on going to the game anyhow because I rarely get to see the Browns in person these days. This is gonna be good!

 

Dez

Footballguy
Browns had opened at -4 at Carolina when schedule was released.

It dropped to -3 recently.

It dropped now to -1 with Baker trade.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

SHIZNITTTT

Footballguy
 Well it was a fun ride while it lasted.  Following Baker from OU to Cleveland.   Tried my best to become a Browns fan.  At times it was fun but the local media sure makes it hard.  The media that cover Browns football have to be the most miserable people walking around.   Hope it works out for everyone (Browns and Baker).      Can't say I won't root for Watson to fail.   The allegations of sexual assault and how it all is swept under the rug because well he can play football.    I would think it has to be very difficult for Browns fan to cheer with Watson at QB.    GL 

 

DallasDMac

Footballguy
not even a little. theyre all faceless to me. 


I'll struggle with it mightily. But I don't put players and teams on pedestals like lots of folks. I won't root for someone a feel is a scumbag no matter how good he is. If it turns out much of it is unfounded, then things will change. But for now, yea. 

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
WHICH GAMES DO THE BROWNS NEED WATSON THE MOST?

The visual below seeks to explain this. The horizontal axis shows the Browns' point spread in each game if Jacoby Brissett were the starter. The vertical axis shows the gain in win probability if Deshaun Watson were to start instead. The games where win probability increases the most are where the Browns are two to three-point underdogs with Brissett, as Watson would make them two to three-point favorites if he played. The approximate gain in those cases (according to FiveThirtyEight’s model) can be nearly a 16% boost in win probability.

CONCLUSIONS

How big is the dropoff from Watson to Brissett? About 2.4 wins over a full season and four and half-point drop in the point spread in each game, although I wouldn't be at all surprised if we saw a slightly bigger drop in practice.

How much should expectations be adjusted based on suspension length? A full season would make the Browns a playoff longshot, but anything short of that probably gives them a chance to sneak in. Six games or less leaves a pretty big window to still win the AFC North, with divisional games being backloaded onto the schedule.

Which games do the Browns need Watson most? The obvious answer is games against divisional rivals and other AFC playoff hopefuls, but really any game that would be close with Brissett would move into the Browns' favor with Watson.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Anthony Reinhard@reinhurdler

Last time each of these teams brought back their head coach + coordinators in Week 1 for three straight seasons:

  • - LA/STL: 1990
  • - CLE: 1993*
  • - MIA: 1995
  • - DEN: 2005
  • - TEN: 2007
  • - CHI: 2009
  • - JAX: 2011
  • - NYJ: 2011
*Browns are set to break their streak this season

--------------------------------------------------------

 

beer 30

Footballguy
We're Browns fans, what else do we have to do? Look at our super bowl rings, oh wait...
This hits in the feels.

Growing up with the Browns in the 70's & 80's, especially the Bernie years, you always thought we'd just stay good but that's where the doubt was birthed. That nagging little thought in the back of every old Brown's fans mind that something is going to happen to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's happened so many times and under such goofy circumstances it's almost an expectation now. Browns PTSD if you will. The Watson saga is just another chapter in the book.

As I creep up on my mortality, I joke less and less about seeing one before I die.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
That is interesting.

  • I'm not a fan...
Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

Per PFF in 2021 Ndamukong Suh

Run Defense Snaps - 194

Run Defense Grade - 50.2

Jordan Elliott

Run Defense Snaps - 206

Run Defense Grade - 45

=========================

I guess we are still looking at Suh and I'm still not a fan.

Report: Ndamukong Suh Remains on Browns Radar

----------------------------------------------------

I keep hearing the coaching staff is high on Jordan Elliot.  

Haven't we heard this line before?

------------------------------------

Pete Smit@_PeteSmith_

I would've pursued Hicks. That said, if the Browns really believe the light has come on for Jordan Elliott as they have been saying and you factor in Watson's uncertainty, I get it. You just have to acknowledge the risk involved.

-------------------------------------

Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

Last year he was so ineffective as a run defender that 72% of his snaps were against the pass, which the Browns definitely don't need him to do.

Suh was okay in 2020. He hasn't been that dude since 2018, but if you could get the 2019 version, you'd be pretty happy.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Since it's still the 2021 thread, here's a story from 2021 The Life And Career Of Reggie Rucker (Complete Story)
Very good read.  Did not know his hard scrabble childhood.

Monday Night, November 3rd, 1980.  Cleveland Browns against the  Chicago Bears.  Old Muni Stadium.  They sold out and issued thousands of standing room only tickets that overfilled the stadium for the largest home crowd for ANY Cleveland Browns game.  

We were way up in the second level, far from the field.

I was a kid and did not know Reggie but as Rucker was warming up, I couldn't help myself and excitedly shouted, 'Hey Reg.'

Then, something happened that I didn't expect.

He stopped and looked in my direction putting his hand up to shield his eyes from the extra lights for Monday Night TV.  It got quiet and then EVERYONE stopped and looked at me.

I panicked because I didn't expect that reaction and felt really awkward.

He squinted trying to see but obviously didn't know who shouted his name as he gave me a halfhearted wave.  Everyone looked at me as though I actually knew him and gave me approving nods, lol.

I always like Reg.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
I'm not a fan...

I guess we are still looking at Suh and I'm still not a fan.
Deshaun Watson’s camp remains optimistic he’ll play this season; Ndamukong Suh not on radar: Browns Insider

...Suh not on the radar

Reports the Browns are interested in five-time Pro Bowl defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh appear unfounded. The Browns have been linked to Suh, 35, at various points this offseason, but there doesn’t seem to be much interest.

If they decide to add a veteran defensive tackle, they might consider a familiar face in Sheldon Richardson, 31, who played for them in 2019-20 but returned to the Vikings last season rather than take a huge paycut from the Browns.

Richardson, the 55th best defensive tackle in the NFL last season according to Pro Football Focus, is good in the locker room and would be a strong mentor for a young player like fourth-round pick Perrion Winfrey. He also has a knack for keeping Myles Garrett motivated.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

:thumbup:

 
Grant carted off(Dynasty League Football) Browns wide receiver and special teams ace Jakeem Grant was carted off with an apparent leg injury at practice. Analysis: This has the looks of a potentially serious injury. Grant was making some headway on the depth chart and figured to be the Browns primary return man as well. If he's indeed lost for the season, it would open up more snaps and targets for the likes of Donovan Peoples-Jones and David Bell. As for Grant, he's already a fringe dynasty player and there would be little reason to keep him should this be a serious injury. Stay tuned.
2.Jakeem Grant: Torn Achilles feared(RotoWire) There are fears that Grant suffered a season-ending torn Achilles during Tuesday's practice, Mary Kay Cabot of The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. Analysis: The report notes that the Browns are awaiting final word on Grant's injury, but it appears as though the 29-year-old is in for an extended absence. In that scenario, Cleveland's return game would take a major hit, while the depth of the team's wideout corps would also be impacted ahead of Week 1.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top