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Cleveland Browns (10 Viewers)

he's never really reached the talent he has, but you don't lose that talent... so does ownership/mgmt believe Watson is going to blow him up and want him locked in now and now have to pay more/lose him later?

only thing I can think of... we've all seen him make some huge plays/wild nabs... 
He's entering just his age 26 year season, excels as a willing blocker, is a proven asset in the red zone, and eliminates the need to address the position 9 months from now. Even if he does not find another level he's worth the price of admission and won't see the last year of his deal. If he does find another level then his contract will be re-done before or after year 3 to create more cap space and lock him up beyond his age 30 season.

 
It's crazy how a guy can be in the league for 5 years and not produce very much and can command that kind of contract.  Hooper contract how did that work out for us ?  Hooper had 1 good year in Atlanta too.

 
I had a thought as to why they stuck with a damaged Baker last season.  Tell me what you think...

Could it be that it was in his contract that he'd be the starter if he cleared medical?  That would make it his call.

Also, do contracts sometimes include things like that?  Does anyone know?

 
I had a thought as to why they stuck with a damaged Baker last season.  Tell me what you think...

Could it be that it was in his contract that he'd be the starter if he cleared medical?  That would make it his call.

Also, do contracts sometimes include things like that?  Does anyone know?
I can't cite my source and this will probably get deleted because that source is someone within earshot of the Browns docs, but their medical advisors suggested surgery from the outset. 

 
I can't cite my source and this will probably get deleted because that source is someone within earshot of the Browns docs, but their medical advisors suggested surgery from the outset. 
this seems to be fairly common knowledge.  
 

btw, never share your sources.  they won’t be sources anymore.  i always appreciate any juicy nuggets that come our way on this board.  i think we’re all old enough to approach rumors with a “take it or leave it” attitude at this point.  

 
AB traded for and extended Amari BEFORE the WR market blew up.  We got a bargain.

NFL TEs took note, and we'll see how the TE market plays out soon.

T.J. Hockenson's contract is up.

Pretty sure AB is ahead of the curve once again.

One of Sigmond's favorite sayings.

'Don't skate where the puck is, skate where it will be.'

People judging Njoku's contract on past performance with Baker are skating where the puck was.

AB is aware how Watson made great use of his TEs and anticipates Njoku will be the beneficiary.

---------------------------

Charles Goldman@goldmctNFL

Deshaun Watson has thrown 104 career touchdown passes during the regular season. 21 of them have been thrown to tights ends. Perhaps an uptick in production for Njoku is on the way?

Deshaun Watson's tight ends have scored 21 touchdowns

  • ...Throwing mostly to cast offs and blocking tight ends, Watson still threw a fifth of his touchdowns to the position.
The Browns are betting that Watson will make Njoku better but, with Njoku being the best tight end Watson has had, perhaps it will go both ways.

 
I'm also willing to bet AB is ahead of the curve, but I'd tap the breaks on Watson being what makes Njoku. There was no hiding his rawness when he was drafted then his development was stunted by Huebola, Kitchens, injury, and himself. Although there is a fair argument a part of the himself blame falls on previous leadership. He took some time to acclimate amidst the 2020 covid season under this new regime, but there have really only been positives to grasp onto with him since late that season. Unlike other positions, TE's often don't peak until their mid-late 20's and he won't even turn 26 until later this summer. 

Don't get me wrong - this is absolutely an over pay based on what he has done to date, but it's not a crazy gamble in regards to what he will do going forward and how much his contemporaries will command as they hit free agency over the next couple years. 

 
2023 will be great! 😉
I know you're being a bit snarky, but it's true that people move on from their troubles unless they're in prison, which ain't gonna happen.  What's the future look like?  He will face haters (justified or not) for as long as he's a public figure, but his life and career will continue regardless. If you do something wrong and pay the price, are you expected to cease your existence?  I guess that's what people would prefer, but it's not reality.  Life goes on for everyone.

 
I know you're being a bit snarky, but it's true that people move on from their troubles unless they're in prison, which ain't gonna happen.  What's the future look like?  He will face haters (justified or not) for as long as he's a public figure, but his life and career will continue regardless. If you do something wrong and pay the price, are you expected to cease your existence?  I guess that's what people would prefer, but it's not reality.  Life goes on for everyone.
except the fact that he will likely pay little “price” beyond sitting a few games. 
 

and he’s admitted to no wrong doing.  if you don’t accept what you did wrong, you don’t move on.  
 

I’m much more likely to back someone like Vick who admitted he messed up.  
 

it’s the reason i will always argue that Roethlisburger is a pile of ####.  not that what Watson is accused of is nearly as bad as what “Big Ben” did.  
 

just some food for thought.  we are all entitled our opinions.  
 

and this will all be swept under the rug as soon as the NFL rules on his suspension. 

 
I know you're being a bit snarky, but it's true that people move on from their troubles unless they're in prison, which ain't gonna happen.  What's the future look like?  He will face haters (justified or not) for as long as he's a public figure, but his life and career will continue regardless. If you do something wrong and pay the price, are you expected to cease your existence?  I guess that's what people would prefer, but it's not reality.  Life goes on for everyone.
Oh, my comment was definitely snarky. But it stems from the IMO very real chance of him missing next season due to being suspended.

 
I know you're being a bit snarky, but it's true that people move on from their troubles unless they're in prison, which ain't gonna happen.  What's the future look like?  He will face haters (justified or not) for as long as he's a public figure, but his life and career will continue regardless. If you do something wrong and pay the price, are you expected to cease your existence?  I guess that's what people would prefer, but it's not reality.  Life goes on for everyone.
What price did he pay?

 
the fact that he will likely pay little “price” ...he’s admitted to no wrong doing.  if you don’t accept what you did wrong, you don’t move on.  
Not sure if you heard of this because it got swept under the carpet and died a quick media death.

“YOU WON’T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED”: THE WILD, DISTURBING SAGA OF ROBERT KRAFT’S VISIT TO A STRIP MALL SEX SPA

  • ... men received manual sex, oral sex, and anal play. When the johns left the spa, an officer would follow them and initiate a traffic stop as a pretext for identifying the men.
  • ...  Among the patrons who turned up on the surveillance video at Orchids was Robert Kraft, the 78-year-old owner of the New England Patriots. 
-----------------------------------

You posted about Watson trolling massage parlors for sexual favors and paying little price while not admitting any wrongdoing. 

----------------------------------

  •  Kraft had gone to the hotel spa for a massage. When he was unable to get an appointment, he conferred with his old friend Peter Bernon, the dairy and plastics tycoon who also lives in Palm Beach. Bernon offered to drive Kraft in his 2014 white Bentley to a place he knew in Jupiter, 20 miles up the Treasure Coast.
  • At Orchids, according to the Jupiter police, Kraft paid cash to the spa’s co-owner, Lei Wang, who goes by Lulu, and received a hand job from her and another worker, later identified as Shen Mingbi. After Kraft ejaculated, Mingbi wiped his penis with a white towel. Then she and Lulu helped him get dressed.
  • As Kraft left the spa in the white Bentley, Officer Scott Kimbark, nicknamed Bark, stopped the car for a minor traffic violation. Kraft asked the officer if he was a Miami Dolphins fan and showed him his Super Bowl ring, explaining that he was the owner of the Patriots. Kimbark, having accomplished his mission, let Kraft and Bernon go with a warning.
  • ...The next day, Kraft returned to Orchids
-------------------------------

Robert Kraft got his case thrown out, the media never released the tape of him getting a hand job by two sex workers, however the women who 'serviced him' had to pay tens of thousands of dollars in fines.  

No admission of guilt and he fought to keep his tape out of the media's hands because he claimed it contained 'pornographic' images.  

You can begin to establish a pattern since he wanted a 'massage' at a different establishment before going to a spa having a sting operation where cameras only caught 20 men in two days of filming, 8 of which were in Kraft's party.  Kraft returned the very next day to the same spa and was caught on camera two times.

Three times in two days establishes pattern of behavior.

The NFL took no action against Kraft.

Watson will pay and the women (who I have heard are not who they claim to be) will be richly compensated.

This is how much a 'massage' at the Orchid cost billionaire Robert Kraft.

 Orchids charged $59 for a half hour massage and $79 for a full hour.

Maybe Watson's accusers realize they can get a lot more money in court without giving 'massages'?

 
amnesiac said:
and he’s admitted to no wrong doing.  if you don’t accept what you did wrong, you don’t move on.  
 
At some point you have to understand how dumb this comment is.

If he admits to wrong doing right now, or ever, he will probably have to pay 100 million to his accusers.  

If he "publicly" admits wrongdoing then he is the dumbest person alive.  

 
At some point you have to understand how dumb this comment is.

If he admits to wrong doing right now, or ever, he will probably have to pay 100 million to his accusers.  

If he "publicly" admits wrongdoing then he is the dumbest person alive.  
true, but we’ve seen countless people in recent years at least pretending to be humbled by the hot water they’re in.  

 
true, but we’ve seen countless people in recent years at least pretending to be humbled by the hot water they’re in.  
Give me an example.  Just ONE.  One example of someone with dozens of millions on the line who fits your description of humbled.

 
Give me an example.  Just ONE.  One example of someone with dozens of millions on the line who fits your description of humbled.
Robert Kraft, lol.

...so, you’re basically saying ...

As always, inserting words into other people’s mouths to “prove” your point instead of trying to have a discussion.  
Literally, you put words into other people's mouths.  

Fantasy football forum and none of your 7 posts on the page, the most of anyone posting here have been about football. 

 
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you know what, I’ve thought this through.  
 

i apologize if i offended anyone, and I’m bowing out.  
 

have fun, everybody.  

 
amnesiac said:
except the fact that he will likely pay little “price” beyond sitting a few games. 
 

and he’s admitted to no wrong doing.  if you don’t accept what you did wrong, you don’t move on.  
 

I’m much more likely to back someone like Vick who admitted he messed up.  
 

it’s the reason i will always argue that Roethlisburger is a pile of ####.  not that what Watson is accused of is nearly as bad as what “Big Ben” did.  
 

just some food for thought.  we are all entitled our opinions.  
 

and this will all be swept under the rug as soon as the NFL rules on his suspension. 


I am not saying that I can tell you anything at all.  I will never have evidence on which to base an opinion.  I will never meet him or anyone else involved.  Ever.  For that reason, I will not render an opinion (A "guess" would be far more accurate).

What I was saying is that everyone's life will continue.  His career will continue.  Today's news will become history.  Eventually.  The NFL's "damage" is limited to bad PR because he plays in their league.  They will attempt to disassociate through suspension.  Negative public opinion of him will persist, which will be the enduring part.  I doubt any public contrition would change that.

Just my $.02...

 
What price did he pay?
The point was that life doesn't cease.  Even if you do something crappy, like "grab 'em by the p###y", the world doesn't end for you unless the criminal justice system puts you away. 

Just to be clear, I am not supporting him. 

 
Cleveland Browns restricted free-agent RB D'Ernest Johnson signed a one-year contract with the Browns Saturday, June 4, worth as much as $2.433 million. The deal includes $900,000 in guaranteed money.

 
This guy was our 7th round draft pick, late flyer.  Hasn't been mentioned at all.  One of the prospects who took a tumble due to off-field issue and may have gotten lost in the COVID fog.

Odds against him but interesting.  Just throwing his name out there.

Isaiah Thomas the Wild Card at DE Late round pick has his eye on the defensive line rotation.

... what are his chances of making the 53-man final roster?

... (6’-5”, 266 pounds) ... Basketball ... excelled... kept him in prime shape... basketball powerhouse... finals... 5A State Champions.

...  started as a freshman... ranked Number 4 Oklahoman Super 30 list 2017... playing some offensive tackle... Honorable Mention All-State ... U.S. Army All-American... started four games freshman ... five sophomore... starting junior COVID year 2020... 10 starts, 31 total tackles, two batted passes, one forced fumble, two fumble recoveries, 12 tackles for loss plus an impressive 7.5 sacks. 

... senior eight sacks, 38 total tackles, three batted passes, three forced fumbles, one fumble recovery, 10.5 tackles for loss with 12 starts and 34 QB pressures... named captain... final two seasons - Second Team All-Big 12

Senior Bowl - held own... Combine - 4.7 ... 40 ... 31.5” vert ... 9’9” broad

...several issues - off-the-field... senior - petty larceny... misdemeanor DUI ...  didn’t appear in court for the larceny charge, that generated a failure to appear warrant and was then booked 

... Chris Trapasso of CBS Sports posted the following about the selection of Thomas:

Browns Best pick (Grade A): DL Isaiah Thomas, Oklahoma (R7, P223)

NFL-sized edge rusher with heavy hands and an energetic style around the corner. Awesome swim move. Decent explosiveness. Ready to contribute from Day 1. More EDGE help for Cleveland.

Thomas’ strengths include good upper body strength, short-area quickness, lots of hustle, relentless pass rush with powerful hands. Negatives include a below average run stopper, limited overall athletic ability, not explosive off the snap and does not possess elite flexibility.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah Thomas, 7th round pick hasn't been mentioned.  I get it, I overlooked him but understand why we took a flyer.

 
... what are his chances of making the 53-man final roster?
Small. I think the team picked him hoping to slip him through to the practice squad. The depth chart is thin enough that he could force their hand because AB doesn't want to risk someone else plucking him off waivers if puts up some good tape in August. He'd probably have to show he's already better than Weatherly and 31 other teams cuts though. 

If Hunt and D'Ern don't get traded then I think a similar dynamic exists with Ford. The loser of the Woods/Weston battle too. 

 
What a mess.  What.......a.........mess.

Just a hypothetical, but let's say Watson never suits up for us.  How many documentaries will be made about us.  

 
Browns trading Baker to Carolina has disaster written all over it with playing at Carolina opening week.  With no Watson on the road vs Baker I could see losing that game and how that will hurt.  Cleveland has 1 win since 1999 on opening week.

 
Browns trading Baker to Carolina has disaster written all over it with playing at Carolina opening week.  With no Watson on the road vs Baker I could see losing that game and how that will hurt.  Cleveland has 1 win since 1999 on opening week.
It Watson is out all year, who cares

 
It would be amazing if a slot WR emerged in camp.

I don't know anything about this guy.

---------------------------------------------------------

Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

Traditional slot option, which is a contrast to David Bell. His tape at Miami is intriguing.

Camryn Justice@camijustice

Mike Harley Jr. has been an early standout.

Keep your eye on him. #Browns

LINK video

----------------------------------------------------------

Akin Jones@Akinjones406

Mike is going to shock a lot of people

 
NFL will argue for ‘significant’ suspension of Deshaun Watson

The league “probably” will seek a suspension of one full season...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

C.E.@cde_48

Question…if he’s suspended for the entire season, he won’t be able to hit FA until a year later since it won’t be counted as an accrued season, his cap charge won’t count this year, and the Browns could roll the savings from suspension, into 2023, correct?

Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

This is why he's not getting a year. The Browns would benefit.

=====================================

Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

The leaks feel a bit like choreography between the league and the NFLPA so both sides look like they are serving their respective clientele and we end up with a pre-negotiated, compromised suspension for Deshaun Watson.

Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

The league - We wanted to give him a year! The NFLPA - We made our point about the hypocrisy in how players are punished versus owners!

Expectation: 6-8 games.

---------------------------------------

 
...The leaks feel a bit like choreography between the league and the NFLPA so both sides look like they are serving their respective clientele and we end up with a pre-negotiated, compromised suspension...
Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

If you've been following our coverage, this wouldn't surprise you.

IG: JosinaAnderson@JosinaAnderson

I'm told there've been recent attempts by the NFL, the NFLPA & Deshaun Watson's advisors to negotiate a discipline settlement. However talks involving a potential number of games missed "fell apart" not being on the same page. As of now, process moves forward, per league sources.

 
Question…if he’s suspended for the entire season, he won’t be able to hit FA until a year later since it won’t be counted as an accrued season, his cap charge won’t count this year, and the Browns could roll the savings from suspension, into 2023, correct?
Salary cap implications if Deshaun Watson suspended for a full season

...If Watson is suspended for a season, his new contract would start next season...

...The salary cap implications for Cleveland would be huge.

...Assuming a year-long suspension for Watson, Cleveland’s 2023 cap space will jump from over $10 million to over $60 million.

 
Salary cap implications if Deshaun Watson suspended for a full season

...If Watson is suspended for a season, his new contract would start next season...

...The salary cap implications for Cleveland would be huge.

...Assuming a year-long suspension for Watson, Cleveland’s 2023 cap space will jump from over $10 million to over $60 million.


Who would you sign with that money and how would it help your team? It would seem that if there's no Watson this year then that means Brissett is your starter, and therefore you're pretty much playing a lost season. Any reason to think differently? 

 
Who would you sign with that money and how would it help your team? It would seem that if there's no Watson this year then that means Brissett is your starter, and therefore you're pretty much playing a lost season. Any reason to think differently? 
No one knew the sort of wild WR FA contracts would happen this offseason.  I never know what will happen in free agency but looking forward at the numbers, PFF shows how each NFL team is positioned with the cap over the next three seasons.

The Browns rank 21st.  If Mayfield gets traded that 'could' improve. 

Can the Browns win with Brissett?  I doubt he's better than a healthy Baker Mayfield, but I think he will perform better than an injured Baker Mayfield.  The splits show how Mayfield performed before and after his injury.  

--------------

NFL Research@NFLResearch
Baker Mayfield suffered a fractured left shoulder in Week 6, 2021...

16 games prior to fracture (incl. Wk 6, 2021):
- 10-6 record
- 8.1 yds/att
- 5 INT
- 100.6 passer rtg 

8 games after:
- 3-5 record
- 6.3 yds/att
- 10 INT
- 72.8 passer rtg

-----------------------------

I don't know much about Brissett but he struggled under pressure and the Dolphins O-Line wasn't that good.

2022 NFL offensive line rankings: Philadelphia Eagles, Tampa Bay Buccaneers among Tier 1 teams

TIER 1: MINOR OR NO WEAKNESSES

  • 2. CLEVELAND BROWNS
TIER 4: AT LEAST ONE GOOD TACKLE

  • 23. MIAMI DOLPHINS
The Dolphins' offensive line should be massively improved in 2022, but that’s after the unit was one of the NFL's worst in 2021.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may find this PFF article interesting as it shows how poor WR play affects QB play as it notes NYJ QB Zach Wilson had the worst WR play hampering his performance by a wide margin.

Brissett dealt with poor WR play on top of poor O-Line play affecting his performance. 

Examining the relationship between dropped passes and quarterback performance

...When we evaluate quarterback performance, one of the biggest influencing factors is supporting cast... things like receivers and pass protection, ...

... receiver fault incompletion ... which quarterbacks were harmed the most by these incompletions in 2022.

Name INC/ATT

  • Zach Wilson - 9.7%
  • Mike Glennon - 7.8%
  • Daniel Jones - 7.8%
  • Jimmy Garoppolo - 7.5%
  • Sam Darnold - 7.1%
  • Jacoby Brissett - 7.1%
=====================

The little I've seen of Brissett is he hesitates to pull the trigger.  He's not a QB who can win games but last year's team won 8 games with a severely injured QB, both OTs injured, and without a single game where both of their starting WRs played a full game together.  

I have absolutely no idea how many games the Browns win this year.  

 
No one knew the sort of wild WR FA contracts would happen this offseason.  I never know what will happen in free agency but looking forward at the numbers, PFF shows how each NFL team is positioned with the cap over the next three seasons.

The Browns rank 21st.  If Mayfield gets traded that 'could' improve. 
Interesting. You look like you have tons of prorated money and a huge 2023 UFA valuation. The article says "The Browns are spending like no team has ever spent before, completely changing the NFL contract landscape with their five-year, $230 million fully guaranteed extension of quarterback Deshaun Watson" and that "[t]hey’re extremely talented on paper, but it’s put up or shut up time for this nucleus of players." 

Looks like the prorated money and the UFA valuation are big problems that put you guys around the bottom of the league in each category -- 28th and 30th, respectively. You're buoyed by your Top 51 Veteran Valuation, which is first in the league and apparently a positive thing. 

I'd have liked it if the article spent more time discussing the parameters of the categories they use -- the blurb they put after each category to explain it wasn't enough for a novice like me. 

Interesting stuff about Zach Wilson. I'll have to click that link next.

eta* Whoops. They say this. "Many of the passers at the top of this list are not good quarterbacks, and that’s a notable takeaway in and of itself." 

It's been well-noted that your offensive line is one of the best in football. I recognize that. 

 
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