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2021 Las Vegas Raiders - PLAYOFFS!!!! (3 Viewers)

DocHolliday said:
This is why I expect Davis to replace Mayock and the coaching staff.  Mayock had to have some involvement with the horrible drafting and dumb moves in FA.   Building from the inside out is a must.  You can’t rebuild the o line with old and often injured players like Incognito and reach for a left tackle in the first round who may be an average guard.

I don’t see many pieces to build around when you look forward to a couple of years.  It’s time to move out any players of value that are 27 years or older.  Waller is 30 next year and should be traded sadly.  Jacobs is already hurt on a weekly basis and is probably going to be very unreliable in 2 years.  
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You're difficult to understand Doc.

You clearly know the team, and live them, but your opinions all seem to be jaded by doom-ane-gloom. No one is expecting sunshine-and-roses forecasting but it is difficult to consider you even mildly objective, when you have apparently already closed the book on Leatherwood's career at "...may be an average guard."

Sure he may be when his career history is written but, and I believe @Chadstroma has the data he has been better than that already. The line has settled down significantly and is playing much better than any of us thought they had any right to back on week one. Moving Leatherwood to guard is a big part of the reason why.

There is no reason he cannot improve enough from year one.to year to to either become the RT he was targeted to be or become a long term force on the interior of the line. Nothing in the NFL rule book says the lynchpin of an offensive line cannot be a guard. Quentin Nelson looks like a future HoFer, 80% of Quentin Nelson is a perennial pro bowl player.

What say we give Leatherwood more than 11 games to decide if "maybe an average guard" is the apex of his career?

IOW Lighten up Doc.

 
I'm starting to think that the games would be played more fairly if the home team designated players to officiate the games themselves.  Much like beer league softball, where home team has to designate an umpire for the game from their own roster.   Because what the NFL is putting on the field right now isn't cutting it. 

And this goes beyond my frustrations as a Raider fan with the rules that are enforced or not.  Just the current football product in general. 

 
Chaka said:
You're difficult to understand Doc.

You clearly know the team, and live them, but your opinions all seem to be jaded by doom-ane-gloom. No one is expecting sunshine-and-roses forecasting but it is difficult to consider you even mildly objective, when you have apparently already closed the book on Leatherwood's career at "...may be an average guard."

Sure he may be when his career history is written but, and I believe @Chadstroma has the data he has been better than that already. The line has settled down significantly and is playing much better than any of us thought they had any right to back on week one. Moving Leatherwood to guard is a big part of the reason why.

There is no reason he cannot improve enough from year one.to year to to either become the RT he was targeted to be or become a long term force on the interior of the line. Nothing in the NFL rule book says the lynchpin of an offensive line cannot be a guard. Quentin Nelson looks like a future HoFer, 80% of Quentin Nelson is a perennial pro bowl player.

What say we give Leatherwood more than 11 games to decide if "maybe an average guard" is the apex of his career?

IOW Lighten up Doc.
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You are probably right that I should lighten up and I will try to do that.  It’s just a shame that the last 3 years were wasted and set the team back a couple of years.  I expect big changes this offseason and many of them are going to disappoint some of our overly optimistic fan friends.  

Leatherwood does deserve more than one season before he is judged.  I will give him credit for being on the field and working hard. 

 
kaso said:
So funny this came full circle.... I posted that photo on twitter 
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It's so frustrating, time after time, we get hosed by the refs. I don't know if it came across on the broadcast but the fans were booing them for most of the game. Number 79 for the WFT pushed one of our players right in front of the ref and nothing.

 
SDJohnny said:
It's so frustrating, time after time, we get hosed by the refs. I don't know if it came across on the broadcast but the fans were booing them for most of the game. Number 79 for the WFT pushed one of our players right in front of the ref and nothing.
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Yup.  That play was on TV, and nothing... 

 
Chadstroma said:
Serious? I just saw that... pretty much says everything about the calls we get or don't get
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I rewound the TV to see if I actually saw what I thought I saw... and then went back a second time to grab a picture.   The video of it is so much worse.  Hobbs gets tackled by his face/head!

 
Chaka said:
You're difficult to understand Doc.

You clearly know the team, and live them, but your opinions all seem to be jaded by doom-ane-gloom. No one is expecting sunshine-and-roses forecasting but it is difficult to consider you even mildly objective, when you have apparently already closed the book on Leatherwood's career at "...may be an average guard."

Sure he may be when his career history is written but, and I believe @Chadstroma has the data he has been better than that already. The line has settled down significantly and is playing much better than any of us thought they had any right to back on week one. Moving Leatherwood to guard is a big part of the reason why.

There is no reason he cannot improve enough from year one.to year to to either become the RT he was targeted to be or become a long term force on the interior of the line. Nothing in the NFL rule book says the lynchpin of an offensive line cannot be a guard. Quentin Nelson looks like a future HoFer, 80% of Quentin Nelson is a perennial pro bowl player.

What say we give Leatherwood more than 11 games to decide if "maybe an average guard" is the apex of his career?

IOW Lighten up Doc.
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The plan, as of now, seems to move Leatherwood back to RT when we have healthy guards that can play somewhat. Leatherwood has done much better at guard, that may be his natural position but it also could be that he was playing next to some bad play at guard after Good went down and was on an island and trying to develop. Miller had some growing pains as well. I am not ready to give up on Leatherwood or assign him at guard like Gallery and from what I have heard, sounds like the coaches are on the same trail as me there. 

 
Oh!! How about the last time out that Carr took.  And 3 seconds disappeared?  Even the announcers were commenting that there should be 13 seconds on the clock, but the refs changed it back from 8 to 10.  

Not saying it would have changed the outcome.   But those things add up to a crazed level of frustration to me.  

Why was Coach B so quiet?  I mean I enjoy the calmness in comparison to what Gruden was.  But this is approaching Art Shell level of shock on the sidelines at times. 

 
@Bruno2  it's laughable that you're blaming the D.  yes 25 should have caught the ball.  they held them under 300 total yards.  allowed 17 points.  they won the turn over battle.  what more do you want?

offense was 2/8 on 3rd down. they had 310 total yards.  only 76 yards rushing.  and carr had 24 of those.  the offense fails in critical situations.  it under performs inside the 30 every game.  they are very predictable.

and what @DocHolliday is saying about LW has a lot to do with his draft position.  if he was a 2nd or a 3rd rounder, who cares.  but when your last 3 first round picks are in jail, playing special teams and playing G(when drafted as a T) and is also leading the league in false starts(most of them in crucial situations)  and tied for 2nd most penalties in the league.  it's not hard to all doom and gloom.

the gruden hire was doomed from the outset.  wtf does this team do now?  blow it up again? :hot:   or try and make these pieces work?   coach B is not the answer.  nice guy, not a head coach.  now what?  new HC is gonna want his own guys.  and bradley is doing pretty damn well.  this #### is a dumpster fire and i have no clue how to fix it.

so f'ing frustrating

 
I caught the end of the 1st half and the very end of the game (my son's 6th birtday) so I have pretty much no thoughts on the game other than this sucks. 

I will say, as I am sure not surprising to some here, I don't think this is a tear down team. We are still one of the youngest teams in the league. I don't think Bisaccia will be back with the team struggling. That usually means new OC and DC. Olsen seems exposed as an OC. Bradley has done his job. The defense plays. 

The off season will be about new players. If Bradley goes, more likely than not, then Perryman will need to go. I see him as a system LB. 

What is really needed will be a #1 WR and OL help. 

I think the biggest problem for this offense, all year really, has been the line not being able to run block. We were able to overcome that with Ruggs speed opening things up in the passing game. Losing him and then playing without your best weapon the offense unsurprisingly struggles. 

 
10 - 9 - 12 - 0 - 3 - 17 - 17 - 13 - 7 - 6 - 17 - 3

23 - 17 - 19 - 14 - 6 - 17 - 16 - 3 - 7 - 7 - 19 - 12

The first set of numbers are the first half points in each game.  The second set are the second half points in each game.  The offense is way too conservative in the first half of games.  The inability of the offense to score points early is at least as big a problem as the defense this year.  Carr is really talented and needs to be more aggressive early in games.  This is a totally different team when Carr is aggressive.

 
ICON211 said:
10 - 9 - 12 - 0 - 3 - 17 - 17 - 13 - 7 - 6 - 17 - 3

23 - 17 - 19 - 14 - 6 - 17 - 16 - 3 - 7 - 7 - 19 - 12

The first set of numbers are the first half points in each game.  The second set are the second half points in each game.  The offense is way too conservative in the first half of games.  The inability of the offense to score points early is at least as big a problem as the defense this year.  Carr is really talented and needs to be more aggressive early in games.  This is a totally different team when Carr is aggressive.
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agreed.  it's play calling and carr's personality.  he's not a risk taker.  and for those that say he doesn't dink and dunk, y'all aren't paying attention.  I'M NOT CARR BASHING CHAD.  :lmao:

and if he's under center and there's a rb behind him and he says "we're good,, we're good"  it WILL be a run up the middle.  usually netting just shy of 2 yards.   :wall:  

 
DA RAIDERS said:
agreed.  it's play calling and carr's personality.  he's not a risk taker.  and for those that say he doesn't dink and dunk, y'all aren't paying attention.  I'M NOT CARR BASHING CHAD.  :lmao:

and if he's under center and there's a rb behind him and he says "we're good,, we're good"  it WILL be a run up the middle.  usually netting just shy of 2 yards.   :wall:  
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Better not be... he is like my son!

 
Carr looks like he has happy feet in the pocket since the Chargers. It looks like he doesn't completely trust the oline. He also seems to be missing open receivers at times, as Bisaccia mentioned post game. He doesn't seem to have any confidence in Edwards unless he is completely open.

On the bright side the defense is making progress.

I do not think Leatherwood is the answer at tackle given Carr's jumpiness. I recall watching LW get beat in college in pass pro. They need to draft/sign a better player to play tackle opposite Miller and draft/sign a WR that will draw double coverage. May ideal situation is they sign Adams and draft a tackle. Then devote the remaining of the draft to defense. 

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Carr looks like he has happy feet in the pocket since the Chargers. It looks like he doesn't completely trust the oline. He also seems to be missing open receivers at times, as Bisaccia mentioned post game. He doesn't seem to have any confidence in Edwards unless he is completely open.

On the bright side the defense is making progress.

I do not think Leatherwood is the answer at tackle given Carr's jumpiness. I recall watching LW get beat in college in pass pro. They need to draft/sign a better player to play tackle opposite Miller and draft/sign a WR that will draw double coverage. May ideal situation is they sign Adams and draft a tackle. Then devote the remaining of the draft to defense. 
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Parker is playing RT. Leatherwood has been playing guard for 5-6 games now.

 
Watching MNF, seeing the commercials for whatever this Tom Brady fap fest b.s.-umentary is, and seeing Randy Moss say "I'm gonna give you everything I got" ####es me off.

 
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Okay I'm officially on the Josh McDaniels and whoever the assistant GM is in New England bandwagon.

Let's roll the dice on getting some of that.

 
Chaka said:
Okay I'm officially on the Josh McDaniels and whoever the assistant GM is in New England bandwagon.

Let's roll the dice on getting some of that.
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I'd be on board with that. I have no interest in some college coach with no NFL experience. We someone to come in and hold people accountable. 

 
SDJohnny said:
I'd be on board with that. I have no interest in some college coach with no NFL experience. We someone to come in and hold people accountable. 
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I hope, in the years since he returned to New England that McDaniels has learned to tone down his control freak shtick and is willing to work with a GM to build a cohesive roster.  I just love how flexible the New England game plan is week and how successful they so often are in executing it.

"O hai mr. buffaloz , we wanna run da ball. There, we do it. Now we do again. Hey it keep working Y U no stop us mr. buffaloz? letz do againz! Yay!!!!!"

I'm in.  At this point the only other guy I would want is Sean Payton, he could do sick things with Carr.

 
Chaka said:
Watching MNF, seeing the commercials for whatever this Tom Brady fap fest b.s.-umentary is, and seeing Randy Moss say "I'm gonna give you everything I got" ####es me off.
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Same exact reaction

 
SDJohnny said:
He is still under contract so it would either be a trade or he'd have to get fired/released.
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Hard to imagine the Saints would fire him over this season, which is clearly a rebuild in the wake of Brees' departure. But I don't know what the political dynamics are over there. Would love to see the guy come to Vegas, if at all realistic.

 
Chadstroma said:
JOSH MCDANIELS?! NOOOOO THANK YOU.
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"McDaniels was with the New England Patriots for all six of their Super Bowl championships: Super Bowl XXXVI, Super Bowl XXXVIII, Super Bowl XXXIX, Super Bowl XLIX, Super Bowl LI, and Super Bowl LIII." 

His stint with Denver was over Ten (10) years ago. I'm willing to bet he learned from that experience. 

 
Chaka said:
Okay I'm officially on the Josh McDaniels and whoever the assistant GM is in New England bandwagon.

Let's roll the dice on getting some of that.
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Oh Hell to the Nah-Nah on that one. 

The guy that traded up and gave up picks to draft Tim Tebow?   Fuhgedaboutit.  

 
dcgangstas said:
Oh Hell to the Nah-Nah on that one. 

The guy that traded up and gave up picks to draft Tim Tebow?   Fuhgedaboutit.  
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Okay so eleven years ago when he was 34 years old was his one shot. That's it. He's persona non grata, henceforth and until the end of time.

Is that really where you're at?

Are you the person you were eleven years ago? Would you be better at the job you had eleven years ago if you got the same job today? 

That type of extremism closes too many doors and limits potential positive outcomes. 

 
Chaka said:
Okay so eleven years ago when he was 34 years old was his one shot. That's it. He's persona non grata, henceforth and until the end of time.

Is that really where you're at?

Are you the person you were eleven years ago? Would you be better at the job you had eleven years ago if you got the same job today? 

That type of extremism closes too many doors and limits potential positive outcomes. 
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Even Belichick himself failed (faltered?) in his first NFL head-coaching stint.

 
From ESPN:

How good is the Raiders' job, and could they clean house?

Interim coach Rich Bisaccia could get a formal interview for the permanent job at the end of the season, but this one could feature an array of candidates to replace Jon Gruden.

I've talked to multiple people around the league who believe this might just be the best job available: brand-new facilities, exciting new home in Las Vegas, sneaky-good roster, a franchise quarterback in Derek Carr and an ownership committed to winning. After all, owner Mark Davis gave Gruden a 10-year deal and plenty of patience on the job before derogatory emails ended his tenure abruptly.

Davis might lean on a committee for help. He has long valued the opinion of former Packers GM Ron Wolf, for example. People like that could have a say.

Davis hasn't tipped his hand on the future of general manager Mike Mayock, who never had autonomy under Gruden. -- Fowler

It's certainly possible Mayock could end up staying, but it sounds to me like the expectation of most people around the league is that the Raiders clean house and start over. Mayock was Gruden's pick after all, and he doesn't have front-office experience beyond what he has accrued with Vegas. He's well liked, and it's obviously possible he and Bisaccia finish the season strong and convince Davis to keep them, but I think a new coach is likely to mean a new GM. -- Graziano

 
I'm not up for giving up on Mayock.  I don't think he got his fair shot while working under the shadows of Gruden, and I'm in the camp that his eye for talent is one to not be wasted or ignored.   But that's just one guys opinion. 

A serious question for the group here (honestly not poking holes in the McDaniels bandwagon tires), because I don't know the answer but have any coaches from the Belichick coaching tree gone onto success elsewhere?  Either in the same role (OC > OC, DC > DC) or as HC?  

 
kaso said:
I'm not up for giving up on Mayock.  I don't think he got his fair shot while working under the shadows of Gruden, and I'm in the camp that his eye for talent is one to not be wasted or ignored.   But that's just one guys opinion. 

A serious question for the group here (honestly not poking holes in the McDaniels bandwagon tires), because I don't know the answer but have any coaches from the Belichick coaching tree gone onto success elsewhere?  Either in the same role (OC > OC, DC > DC) or as HC?  
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Great question and I think the answer is not really*.

*Nick Saban was part of Belichick's staff in Cleveland.

Belichick's tree has: Saban, Romeo Crenel, Eric Mangini, Al Groh, Bill O'Brien, Matt Patricia & Jim Schwartz & Josh McDaniels

 
Chaka said:
Okay so eleven years ago when he was 34 years old was his one shot. That's it. He's persona non grata, henceforth and until the end of time.

Is that really where you're at?

Are you the person you were eleven years ago? Would you be better at the job you had eleven years ago if you got the same job today? 

That type of extremism closes too many doors and limits potential positive outcomes. 
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I am not saying he shouldn't get another shot. I am saying I don't want to gove him that shot. Most of his issues were personality related. No thanks. 

 
kaso said:
I'm not up for giving up on Mayock.  I don't think he got his fair shot while working under the shadows of Gruden, and I'm in the camp that his eye for talent is one to not be wasted or ignored.   But that's just one guys opinion. 

A serious question for the group here (honestly not poking holes in the McDaniels bandwagon tires), because I don't know the answer but have any coaches from the Belichick coaching tree gone onto success elsewhere?  Either in the same role (OC > OC, DC > DC) or as HC?  
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Most have failed miserably both in NFL and college. Vrabel is the only one that I would say seems to be successful. 

 
Chaka said:
Great question and I think the answer is not really*.

*Nick Saban was part of Belichick's staff in Cleveland.

Belichick's tree has: Saban, Romeo Crenel, Eric Mangini, Al Groh, Bill O'Brien, Matt Patricia & Jim Schwartz & Josh McDaniels
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I did not realize Saban was on his staff. 

So... 1 win. 

I thought Vrabel was on NE staff as position coach but looked it up and he wasn't. Ohio State and Texans are his coaching. I guess since it was under O'Brien it may still count plus his time as a player. 

So... 1 1/2? Wins...  how many trainwrecks INCLUDING McDaniels trainwreck the first time. 

 
kaso said:
I'm not up for giving up on Mayock.  I don't think he got his fair shot while working under the shadows of Gruden, and I'm in the camp that his eye for talent is one to not be wasted or ignored.   But that's just one guys opinion. 
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I don't think you can fully judge Mayock with Gruden. Mayock has said the power balance was 51% Gruden and 49% Mayock. Plus, the way Mayock works is very collaborative in nature. He works with the coaches in what they want. He talks through the players with them and it sounds like leans toward giving them what they want versus forcing players. Is that good or bad... I think it is good as long as Mayock doesn't let them roll. I really, really, really want to see a draft by Mayock without Gruden. 

 
I always had the balance of power 90/10. And that only applied to menial things. Anything important in gruden’s mind. 100/0

 
Chadstroma said:
I did not realize Saban was on his staff. 

So... 1 win. 

I thought Vrabel was on NE staff as position coach but looked it up and he wasn't. Ohio State and Texans are his coaching. I guess since it was under O'Brien it may still count plus his time as a player. 

So... 1 1/2? Wins...  how many trainwrecks INCLUDING McDaniels trainwreck the first time. 
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O'Brien was 52-48 and took the Texans to the playoffs five times in seven years.

He's at least a 1/2

But who cares? In reality these are entirely unrelated data points.

 
Chadstroma said:
I am not saying he shouldn't get another shot. I am saying I don't want to gove him that shot. Most of his issues were personality related. No thanks. 
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Again, you're suggesting that in 11 years the man has remained frozen in time. That he will have the same personality traits that caused him to be unsuccessful 11 years ago.  I don't buy that.

I think we all agree that we would love to go back in time 11 years and kick the #### out of our past selves for being such dumb###es.

 
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