I think they realized Kamara wasn’t traded yet by time the 4th quarter started
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2022 Las Vegas Raiders (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
This is probably an overreaction but I’m going to throw this out there anyway.
For starters, an offense with this much talent, being coached by an offensive guru should never EVER be shut out by another 2 win ball club, no excuse for it. I don’t care how many rookies are playing on the Oline, injuries, whatever, zero points is unacceptable.
I’ve always been a Derek Carr backer. I played the game, I realize this team has so many problems that all the blame can’t be put solely on the QB. If anything, Carr has been the only good thing to happen to this lousy organization in the past 20 years. But maybe for his sake and the sake of the franchise, it’s time to shake up the QB position.
Carr is an NFL starter, but he needs help. He’s drowning in Vegas, I don’t know if it’s possible or any of the logistics, but trade him to a QB needy team like Indy for DeForest Buckner. Ride out the season with Stidham then when this dumpster fire is over call up Lamar Jackson, ask him how much he wants, then pay him and then some.
Now they have a stud DT that they badly need, an athletic QB that can get butts in the seats. Don’t pay Jacobs, you can find RBs in the draft and just start over.
For starters, an offense with this much talent, being coached by an offensive guru should never EVER be shut out by another 2 win ball club, no excuse for it. I don’t care how many rookies are playing on the Oline, injuries, whatever, zero points is unacceptable.
I’ve always been a Derek Carr backer. I played the game, I realize this team has so many problems that all the blame can’t be put solely on the QB. If anything, Carr has been the only good thing to happen to this lousy organization in the past 20 years. But maybe for his sake and the sake of the franchise, it’s time to shake up the QB position.
Carr is an NFL starter, but he needs help. He’s drowning in Vegas, I don’t know if it’s possible or any of the logistics, but trade him to a QB needy team like Indy for DeForest Buckner. Ride out the season with Stidham then when this dumpster fire is over call up Lamar Jackson, ask him how much he wants, then pay him and then some.
Now they have a stud DT that they badly need, an athletic QB that can get butts in the seats. Don’t pay Jacobs, you can find RBs in the draft and just start over.
ICON211
Footballguy
Here is my assessment of different aspects of the game yesterday:
Offensive coaching - Total failure. Didn't cross midfield till the last meaningless drive of the game
Passing Game - Just awful. It started with Carr missing a wide open Hollins on the opening drive and didn't get any better. Offensive line allowed pressure and Carr had bad pocket awareness and threw a poor interception.
Running Game - Jacobs ran hard in limited opportunities and never really had a chance to get anything going with the passing struggles.
Defensive coaching and defense - Total failure. Saints punted twice and consistently moved the ball all day. No sacks or turnovers as usual. Defensive front got no pressure on Dalton and coaches didn't adjust and send more guys to try to apply any.
Offensive coaching - Total failure. Didn't cross midfield till the last meaningless drive of the game
Passing Game - Just awful. It started with Carr missing a wide open Hollins on the opening drive and didn't get any better. Offensive line allowed pressure and Carr had bad pocket awareness and threw a poor interception.
Running Game - Jacobs ran hard in limited opportunities and never really had a chance to get anything going with the passing struggles.
Defensive coaching and defense - Total failure. Saints punted twice and consistently moved the ball all day. No sacks or turnovers as usual. Defensive front got no pressure on Dalton and coaches didn't adjust and send more guys to try to apply any.
From an outsider POV, for FF, it seemed like the offense was improving. Put up 32 on DEN, a very good defense, 29 on the Chiefs, and 38 on the bad Texans. And the Saints had given up 30+ points in 3 consecutive games, although Dalton INTs played a big role.
How do Adams and Renfrow only catch 2 passes for 9 yards? Like many, I've been riding the Carlson train ... now what?
How do Adams and Renfrow only catch 2 passes for 9 yards? Like many, I've been riding the Carlson train ... now what?
ZADO
Footballguy
So do we trust the process as it plays out over time hoping it gets better ?
It appears they take 1 step forward(last week) then go backwards 2 steps , how can anyone trust the process when it looks like every other season ?
Something's clearly out of whack with this franchise and has been since the Raiders lost to Tampa bay in the SB back in 2003. The Raiders have had only 2 winning records since then and last season under an interim coach and having the most distractions ive ever seen a team have , they showed real heart , but seemed to be back to playing with no heart again this season.
Its like a really bad marriage that cant be fixed but have that stubborn ''i invested to much damn time into this relationship to just walk away ''
Something has to change , moving to Vegas into the nicest stadium in the league didnt help, going after flashy free agents hasnt helped , changing coaches and the offense hasnt helped .
It appears they take 1 step forward(last week) then go backwards 2 steps , how can anyone trust the process when it looks like every other season ?
Something's clearly out of whack with this franchise and has been since the Raiders lost to Tampa bay in the SB back in 2003. The Raiders have had only 2 winning records since then and last season under an interim coach and having the most distractions ive ever seen a team have , they showed real heart , but seemed to be back to playing with no heart again this season.
Its like a really bad marriage that cant be fixed but have that stubborn ''i invested to much damn time into this relationship to just walk away ''
Something has to change , moving to Vegas into the nicest stadium in the league didnt help, going after flashy free agents hasnt helped , changing coaches and the offense hasnt helped .
I hear you brother…. Davis needs to sell, he can’t run an NFL franchise to save his life. He’s in over his head.
There’s no consistency, granted, what happened last year was not Davis’ fault but there’s no consistent foundation to build on.
Look around the NFL. The good teams have excellent front offices: the Chiefs, Bills, 49ers. Even teams like the Steelers and Patriots, even when they have down years they have that winning foundation to fall back on.
It all starts at the top, and the “you know what” all rolls downhill.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Davis doesn’t need to sell. He didn’t miss on the draft picks the last few years and he isn’t coaching. The problem is lack of talent and suspect coaching including the HC and the coordinators. It is time to move players such as Waller and actually build for the future. Build a team and then insert a rookie QB. Adding Davante was great to try to sell tickets but not a good decision when a team is rebuilding. The O line is as bad as we thought. The D has been bad for so long that we don’t even know what a good D looks like. Say goodbye to Jacobs too. Great player but he doesn’t make sense for a team that is still at least a year or two away from competing. Things must get uglier before they get better.
joey
Footballguy
this is the definition of being a raiders fan.
ZADO
Footballguy
“Team sources told WalterFootball.com owner Mark Davis regrets the coaching moves he made during the past year,” Campbell reported on Sunday. “Obviously, Davis will not admit that publicly and will voice support for the current staff. However when asked about letting go of [Rich] Bisaccia, team sources say there is more to it than that.”
“Let’s go back a little further,” said a high-level team source. “He regrets letting Jon [Gruden] go, then regrets letting Rich go, [everything is] definitely out of sync.”
Going into this week it looked like McDaniels at least had the offense moving in a good direction, but on Sunday nothing was fine. Even worse, the effort from previous weeks didn’t seem to be there.
McDaniels might not be on the hot seat, but he has to be getting close. Even Jon Gruden probably didn’t have the clout with Davis to get shutout by the owner’s least favorite head coach since taking over the team in 2011.
twitter: @raidersbeat
“Let’s go back a little further,” said a high-level team source. “He regrets letting Jon [Gruden] go, then regrets letting Rich go, [everything is] definitely out of sync.”
Going into this week it looked like McDaniels at least had the offense moving in a good direction, but on Sunday nothing was fine. Even worse, the effort from previous weeks didn’t seem to be there.
McDaniels might not be on the hot seat, but he has to be getting close. Even Jon Gruden probably didn’t have the clout with Davis to get shutout by the owner’s least favorite head coach since taking over the team in 2011.
twitter: @raidersbeat
Chaka
Footballguy
More like, "I'm too lazy and new restaurants keep opening up."
Chaka
Footballguy
This alone, if true, is reason enough for me to want to stick with McDaniels.
kaso
Footballguy
I can see Davis having regrets with letting Gruden go because of how it played out. With full hindsight, the lack of real penalty for the Redskins ownership and management is only salt in the wounds of the head hunting exercise that Gruden was dragged into. To be clear, not defending any of the language used by Gruden. Only calling out the level of mishandling of the two issues; Gruden's emails vs. All things WFT front office. Davis was painted into a corner, publicly and behind closed doors, I have no doubts he has regrets about how that all played out.
As for this team. Let's hope it's growing pains. Because I'm not sure I want more of what happened yesterday.
Edited to add: I'm in full support of long meetings between owner at coach after a rough go. I have to talk to my manager after I mess up at work, why should it be any different for the manager/employee relationship in the NFL. I suspect they meet often, a healthy organization should.
As for this team. Let's hope it's growing pains. Because I'm not sure I want more of what happened yesterday.
Edited to add: I'm in full support of long meetings between owner at coach after a rough go. I have to talk to my manager after I mess up at work, why should it be any different for the manager/employee relationship in the NFL. I suspect they meet often, a healthy organization should.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Carr doesn’t look comfortable in the O. Not sure why that is. Afraid of the weak o line getting him crushed? The O being unfriendly to Carr’s skillset? Carr was a good but not great QB that may already be declining. Carr can certainly be part of the problem with the O but it feels like something else is going on. Did the team mail it in? Did the players never buy into the new coaching staff?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Let’s not forget that Gruden was a bad coach. i Couldn’t care less about the emails or their content. the fact that he’s gone is a positive for the football team. And I don’t put much stock in anonymous sources, let alone walterfootball. 
mcD called a terrible game. the stupid jet sweep to Adams was awful. Made me think Gruden was calling plays.
And the players didn’t help him out. Especially Carr. As @ICON211 pointed out, missing a WIDE OPEN hollins, on the first series of the game set the tone.
just seeing those 2 plays early in the game, I knew they were in for a long Day
mcD called a terrible game. the stupid jet sweep to Adams was awful. Made me think Gruden was calling plays.
And the players didn’t help him out. Especially Carr. As @ICON211 pointed out, missing a WIDE OPEN hollins, on the first series of the game set the tone.
just seeing those 2 plays early in the game, I knew they were in for a long Day
Chaka
Footballguy
Not buying this. Just last week Davante was talking about how this is by far the most complicated offense he has ever played in. It's very likely Carr doesn't have much freedom to audible and maybe there is one set audible that he can use. Not that Carr was great at reading and calling audibles in the past but he's likely just stuck with what McDaniels allows and it's tough. The only thing that works is reps.
McDaniels deserves more than 8 games before we start talking about another change (I know you didn't say that Doc).
Like I said last week, after giving up 410 yards to Houston, we were way too optimistic coming into this season based upon one splash free agent signing. The dearth of talent on the offensive line and all up and down the defense wasn't fixed, heck it was barely addressed (Chandler Jones
).I hope they are sellers before the trade deadline because, more than anything this team needs an infusion of young talent.
btemp
Footballguy
Let’s not forget that Gruden was a bad coach. i Couldn’t care less about the emails or their content. the fact that he’s gone is a positive for the football team. And I don’t put much stock in anonymous sources, let alone walterfootball.
mcD called a terrible game. the stupid jet sweep to Adams was awful. Made me think Gruden was calling plays.
And the players didn’t help him out. Especially Carr. As @ICON211 pointed out, missing a WIDE OPEN hollins, on the first series of the game set the tone.
just seeing those 2 plays early in the game, I knew they were in for a long Day
As a Bucs fan who watched 7 years of Gruden, I couldn't agree more with this. Gruden (very obviously) was a good-not-great HC and OC who got personnel control and was horrible with personnel.
His personnel record with the Buc was atrocious. After the trade for Gruden with the Raiders, and after immediately winner the SB in 2002, he used his leverage to oust the GM Rich McKay and installed his lackey Bruce Allen.
...and he never won another playoff game. In fact, Gruden has not won a playoff game (either with the Bucs or Raiders) since that 2002 season. But he did a great job on ESPN of hyping his accomplishments!
The big question is, has McDaniels actually learned enough since his disastrous Broncos stint? Can he raise the play of the team? Because it seems to me the offense is far too talented to be this inconsistent.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Is anyone on here missing Rich Bisaccia? Say what you want he did a tremendous job getting that team to the playoffs last year.
The Raiders have to consider trading Carr and getting draft picks. Carr has failed to show progress in his development. He does not elevate the players around him and requires optimal protection to be effective. He is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Period.
The Raiders have to consider trading Carr and getting draft picks. Carr has failed to show progress in his development. He does not elevate the players around him and requires optimal protection to be effective. He is not a Super Bowl caliber QB. Period.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Trading Carr now seems like a losing move at this point. Carr isn’t the answer but he’s not the biggest problem. Since LV gave up the two early draft picks this year for Davante, it seems logical to try to build a team that makes a run in two years before Adams is washed up. The .org must focus on improving the o line and the D. Not sure why that doesn’t happen year after year but it’s obvious.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
The NFL landscape at QB is pretty sparse. I doubt the Raiders could get the same hall the Seahawks received for Wilson, but I think they could get multiple picks. I am not sure what making a run means. If they are satisfied going one and done in the playoffs then Carr is the answer. If your goal is the SB then the direction is obvious.
efactor
Footballguy
As an outsider, I thought the downside of giving up a first and a second for Adams was that it seemed a super bowl or bust move when rest of the pieces weren't in place to make a run through a pretty loaded AFC. Plus, Adams hitting the age of 30 this season makes it unlikely he will still be a top receiver at age 32-33, when the new coaching staff could potentially have the other pieces in place. If he's still elite then, that would be the exception. Seems they got a little ahead of themselves after making the playoffs last year and playing the Bengals tough.
Chaka
Footballguy
Haven't we all had this conversation enough times to know this simply isn't true?
The team goes the the Super Bowl, the team wins the Super Bowl. Too many "average" QBs have proven this to be true. Carr is absolutely good enough to QB a team to a SB win. He's not going to "Mahomes it" (and let's not forget that Mahomes needed a miracle to beat Jimmy Garoppolo), but he's easily good enough.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
We can agree to disagree. When Carr is done with his career I believe it will show zero playoff wins and zero SB appearances.
Chaka
Footballguy
That's hardly a bold prediction and isn't counter to anything I said.
It all depends on the team that is put around him. We all want Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or, probably, Justin Herbert or Joe Burrow but those guys are very difficult to find and GMs are wrong more often than not about top prospects.
Carr has already proven he can lead a top offense, how about, just once the Raiders give him a top defense? The highest defensive finish the team has had under Carr is 20th (2x) and the team went 12-3 & 6-9 in those two seasons.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
You are basically validating what I said earlier: Carr does not elevate the players around him.
That’s a rare quality, and honestly not very fair. You can’t always put lipstick on a pig. Even Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers can’t create miracles every year.
A good defense is a QBs best friend. Something Carr has never had.
Chaka
Footballguy
Not really.
efactor
Footballguy
How would Adams react losing his HOF QB?
He would probably request a trade lol
I’d jump all over it. But after not being able to lead your offense past the 50 yard line against a 2-5 team, I bet his stock is about as low as it’s ever been.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I don't have energy for any of this.
Carr isn't the problem or even a problem.
Other than the horrible game with NO, the offense has been good (I think before the last game they were the 4th highest average scoring team in the league) and that includes a less than ideal offensive line.
The problem is the defense. The biggest problem with the defense is the big FA signing of Jones which has produced nearly nothing. You can have Mack in his prime or Maxx or anyone else but if you don't have someone on the line that can consistently be a pass rush threat then you really limit what your star can do. We went from Yannick and his .5 sacks every game (with the Colts so far) to Jones with his .5 sacks for the year (and that half sack was really all about Cle). I really expected more from Graham even if saddled with an old washed up pass rusher we over paid.
I have no idea what the hell happened with the offense against the Saints. There is NO reason for us to be shut out with the weapons we have on offense. McDaniels better step the hell up.
Carr isn't the problem or even a problem.
Other than the horrible game with NO, the offense has been good (I think before the last game they were the 4th highest average scoring team in the league) and that includes a less than ideal offensive line.
The problem is the defense. The biggest problem with the defense is the big FA signing of Jones which has produced nearly nothing. You can have Mack in his prime or Maxx or anyone else but if you don't have someone on the line that can consistently be a pass rush threat then you really limit what your star can do. We went from Yannick and his .5 sacks every game (with the Colts so far) to Jones with his .5 sacks for the year (and that half sack was really all about Cle). I really expected more from Graham even if saddled with an old washed up pass rusher we over paid.
I have no idea what the hell happened with the offense against the Saints. There is NO reason for us to be shut out with the weapons we have on offense. McDaniels better step the hell up.
raidersraidersraiders
Footballguy
0 points and can't get past the 50 is a problem. defense exposed him and the rest of the offense
LawFitz
Footballguy
I said at the beginning of the season this would be a make or break year for Carr. So far, he's more break than make. Real talk. He's not THE problem, but his lack of mobility is a problem.
ZADO
Footballguy
Interesting podcast featuring Jon Gruden interviewed recently for those who dont hate him ,or those interested in his take on the current team
youtu.be
side note - the older Gruden gets the more he looks like Robin Williams
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youtu.be
side note - the older Gruden gets the more he looks like Robin Williams
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Chaka
Footballguy
Any way they could be talked into Waller?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
"would likely be open" sounds like click bait to me
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Plus they just traded for Nyheim Hines.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
If I was the GM, I would be calling each team that possibly could be selling and see if any younger pass rushers are available. Inside or outside. Adding someone who can get to the QB would be the one single transaction that could make a real difference to this team. Young because this year is likely shot but adding that and have a high 1st next year to add a top tackle and that goes a LONG way to getting us where we (me) thought we would be this year.
ZADO
Footballguy
ZADO
Footballguy
Bills ‘Interested’ In Trade for Raiders RB Josh Jacobs?
Despite being well-stocked at nearly every position, the Buffalo Bills would likely be open to adding the services of a feature running back.
www.si.com
Chaka
Footballguy
If you were the GM you might be fired for starting work 30 minutes after the trade deadline ended.
Pretty interesting press conference by Ziegler today. I kinda like the guy. Yes, he and McDaniels are tied at the hip so if McDaniels gets fired Ziegler would probably as well, just like the Gruden/Mayock situation.
Anyway, he eluded to Carr battling with some injuries and I got the overall feeling that a lot of guys just aren’t practicing.
I think what we’re seeing on Sundays is a culmination of a few things that are all intertwined:
Too many injuries exposing a lack of depth.
Guys just not healthy enough to practice and just showing up on Sunday and hoping or expecting to execute and win games.
If Carr is injured, and it was well documented that Adams was sick last week, no Waller and Renfrow just not being the same since he got his Bell rung, then it’s no surprise this team is on the struggle bus.
The defense is a different story. It’s just an overall lack of depth and a roster full of JAGs and a poor free agent decision signing Jones.
The tough part, is there’s no easy quick fix for the D. If they don’t have the players to compete (especially on the Dline) then they are going to be a liability.
The frustration lies in expectations. At the beginning of the year the fans were lied to. Davis publicly stated this was not a rebuild year. Clearly that is not the case. There are no easy answers, but one thing is for sure, it’s November 2nd and the season is over.
Anyway, he eluded to Carr battling with some injuries and I got the overall feeling that a lot of guys just aren’t practicing.
I think what we’re seeing on Sundays is a culmination of a few things that are all intertwined:
Too many injuries exposing a lack of depth.
Guys just not healthy enough to practice and just showing up on Sunday and hoping or expecting to execute and win games.
If Carr is injured, and it was well documented that Adams was sick last week, no Waller and Renfrow just not being the same since he got his Bell rung, then it’s no surprise this team is on the struggle bus.
The defense is a different story. It’s just an overall lack of depth and a roster full of JAGs and a poor free agent decision signing Jones.
The tough part, is there’s no easy quick fix for the D. If they don’t have the players to compete (especially on the Dline) then they are going to be a liability.
The frustration lies in expectations. At the beginning of the year the fans were lied to. Davis publicly stated this was not a rebuild year. Clearly that is not the case. There are no easy answers, but one thing is for sure, it’s November 2nd and the season is over.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
When you trade for Adams and sign an old vet for top dollar money in Jones- you aren't doing a rebuild. You aren't lying if you believe what you are saying. They just got it wrong.
Good point. Still I find it hard to believe they truly thought they were one WR away from a Super Bowl or at least a playoff win.
I just don’t see someone with years of NFL experience (McDaniels) looking at that defense and saying, “we’re just one over the hill pass rusher away “. But what do I know, just my opinion.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
It was worth a shot to hope that the team could add a couple of pieces and compete enough to sneak into the playoffs. The D is as bad as we thought. The o line is bad but Jacobs covers that up. It should be painfully obvious now that there are lots of players needed and the unloading of players must begin for draft picks. The unloading should have already started. It’s time to tank.
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