2023-2024 NBA Salary Cap Draft - SECOND Annual Battle for the Wikkid Cup - Preseason Rankings are In! (1 Viewer)

[the moops]

Brodgon was a 2x DPOY in the ACC and is a plus sized guard. He has played for some elite defenses with Milwaukee & Boston and has thusly been the guy targeted a lot, but he is not a poor defender by any stretch.

You watch a lot of Celtics games. As do I. Brogdon was atrocious last year and I somehow doubt he has gotten better going to POR. You are correct that he used to be a very good defender though

 

[Desert_Power]

Did anyone consider taking Miles Bridges?

No but I'm kinda surprised nobody made the jump.

Yeah me too. He was out of my price range half way through the draft, but I don’t think I would have done it if he were. Reasonable contract for his on-court production, but the off-court stuff made him tough to draft for me.

Also a decent amount of change for a guy a who keeps making dumb moves off the court.

 

[the moops]

Also the standings in Fantrax are garbage. Dunfee's team kinda blows and he is first place. No offense @dunfee555

 

[dunfee555]

Also the standings in Fantrax are garbage. Dunfee's team kinda blows and he is first place. No offense @dunfee555

The Fantrax stats are very dependent on overall statistics. At this point, my team has 8 more games played than the 2nd place team (@Chemical X) and 47 more games played than the last place teams (@Instinctive & @Kev4029). So as more games are played, that should even out.

But I also think you must be underrating my team

 

[the moops]

But I also think you must be underrating my team

I mean it's not as bad as frosty's thats for sure

 

[FatMax]

#2 isn't shabby, though.

Nope. Keep trying

My trio of Brunson, Markanen, and Barnes have sunk 85 at 41%

A hot start does not a season make. All 3 are shooting well above their season averages. Barnes, absurdly so.

Maybe so, but Barnes only accounts for 18 of those 85.

 

[Jayrod]

Brodgon was a 2x DPOY in the ACC and is a plus sized guard. He has played for some elite defenses with Milwaukee & Boston and has thusly been the guy targeted a lot, but he is not a poor defender by any stretch.

You watch a lot of Celtics games. As do I. Brogdon was atrocious last year and I somehow doubt he has gotten better going to POR. You are correct that he used to be a very good defender though

He was not atrocious last year. Not by the numbers, not by the eye test. He was the worst out of the primary 8 guys, so by comparison he may have looked bad, but that doesn't mean he was bad.

 

[Jayrod]

It is amazing that 85% of the players in the NBA are average or better defenders.

Or some of you think a guy is TERRIBLE or ATROCIOUS on defense if he isn't an all-defensive candidate.

There are 300 guys in this thing. Being in the top 100 is an above average defender. That should be about half of our top 10 players would be considered average or better defenders.

 

[Jayrod]

I like my chances here by the end of the season. And I will be pairing them together 2 at a time almost always. Defense is what Butler & Wagner are for. If we need a stop, sure I'll go down to 1, but it isn't like Maxey and Brogdon are terrible defenders (yes, Herro can be terrible).

Defensive specialist Franz Wagner?

Good defender Franz Wagner.

That is not exactly a rare or bold statement to make.

 

[Kev4029]

In a development nobody could have anticipated, Ben Simmons will be out with some sort back injury/pinched nerve.

 

[Eephus]

I don't know how to rank teams with current injury/suspension issues. Ja Morant is the obvious case because Trader Jake's team doesn't have a healthy backup point guard

 

[scoobus]

Cade Cunningham
Fred VanVleet
Andrew Wiggins
Jerami Grant
Alperen Sengun

It's questionable if some teams here even have 1 capable PG, this team starts essentially 3. Cade Cunningham thinks he's died and gone to heaven after being surrounded by players that can actually shoot.

Hmmm. Three point shooting this year

VanVleet 37%
Wiggins 15%
Grant 36%
Sengun 25%

vs

Stewart 44%
Thompson 15%
Hayes 33%
Burks 50%

Solid 9 game sample size analysis.

And you even shoehorned non-starter Alec Burks in there on top of it instead of 0% Duren.

 

[Kev4029]

I like my chances here by the end of the season. And I will be pairing them together 2 at a time almost always. Defense is what Butler & Wagner are for. If we need a stop, sure I'll go down to 1, but it isn't like Maxey and Brogdon are terrible defenders (yes, Herro can be terrible).

Defensive specialist Franz Wagner?

Good defender Franz Wagner.

That is not exactly a rare or bold statement to make.

Wagner may be a good defender in a team concept surrounded by other very good defenders but making him the "best" game-to-game defender (Butler isn't up to that) on the team is not going to make the team even remotely average. I think you could make the case that Butler and Wagner on the wing is a slight plus but the backcourt is pretty bad and we are seeing what teams with Lively and Nurkic look like defensively. And it's not like the bench has subs that are coming in to plug any of those holes.

 

[Kev4029]

I don't know how to rank teams with current injury/suspension issues. Ja Morant is the obvious case because Trader Jake's team doesn't have a healthy backup point guard

I treat this mostly as if it a regular season with a slight bump for who could be the best team(s) in a 7 game playoff.

 

[Frostillicus]

But I also think you must be underrating my team

I mean it's not as bad as frosty's thats for sure

You mean the #1 seed?

 

[PIK95]

Pik95 Jr's starting five is probably the best in the league imo. Losing Oubre hurt his bench. If I have time I will review both teams this week.

 

[Jayrod]

Wagner may be a good defender in a team concept surrounded by other very good defenders but making him the "best" game-to-game defender (Butler isn't up to that) on the team is not going to make the team even remotely average. I think you could make the case that Butler and Wagner on the wing is a slight plus but the backcourt is pretty bad and we are seeing what teams with Lively and Nurkic look like defensively. And it's not like the bench has subs that are coming in to plug any of those holes.

Butler isn't a great defender?

This Celtics fan greatly disagrees.

And Wagner's defensive value is only because of the defensive prowess of....Orlando?

 

[trader jake]

Also the standings in Fantrax are garbage. Dunfee's team kinda blows and he is first place. No offense @dunfee555

I will be basing 0% of my voting on Fantrax stats / rankings. There are a lot of players that "put up stats" but they suck on defense, are total ballhogs only capable of being productive with the ball in their hands, kill team chemistry, etc.

If a team doesn't have a top tier player, has two non-shooters or non-defenders in their starting lineup, has little positional versatility and shooting off their bench, or has a big ol' turd (like Miles Bridges) they could fare worse on my list than others.

Just one voters thoughts.

 

[Desert_Power]

Pik95 Jr's starting five is probably the best in the league imo. Losing Oubre hurt his bench. If I have time I will review both teams this week.

I think this starting 5 would fare pretty poorly as an actual team.

 

[trader jake]

I don't know how to rank teams with current injury/suspension issues. Ja Morant is the obvious case because Trader Jake's team doesn't have a healthy backup point guard

If voters take suspensions, short term injuries, or current hot/cold shooting etc into account too heavily it defeats the purpose of this team building draft IMO.

I plan on voting like each group of players were a real team that would build through the regular season and how they would fare as a squad entering the playoffs (against the other teams drafted here).

Some examples:
- PHI SF Kelly Oubre was just hit by a car. Yes, that hurts the 76ers in real life, but overall I'll project him to be relatively healthy and productive entering the postseason with his squad here.
- POR C Robert Williams suffered an injury that seems likely to hamper him significantly. Add in his lengthy injury history and he's tough to include as a rotational player when I break down the team he's on here.

For Ja Morant, I project him to come back with a chip on his shoulder and to perform at a near all-NBA level like he has in recent seasons. The guy is a hooper and can get by anyone, make difficult plays look easy, and he'll consistently get his teammates open shots. He'll now give actual effort on defense, but that's not where he's a difference maker. Overall, his biggest questions really aren't on the court.

If a voter thinks he's going to return after his suspension and flash a weapon on social media again, not be in shape as a result of time away, or generally isn't a really good point guard ...then they'll nik my squad in their rankings. Just like many other players with "non-basketball" concerns. That's all fair game IMO.

 

[Yo Mama]

I don't know how to rank teams with current injury/suspension issues. Ja Morant is the obvious case because Trader Jake's team doesn't have a healthy backup point guard

If voters take suspensions, short term injuries, or current hot/cold shooting etc into account too heavily it defeats to purpose of this team building draft IMO.

I plan on voting like each group of players were a real team that would build through the regular season and how they would fare as a squad entering the playoffs (against the other teams drafted here).

Some examples:
- PHI SF Kelly Oubre was just hit by a car. Yes, that hurts the 76ers in real life, but overall I'll project him to be relatively healthy and productive entering the postseason with his squad here.
- POR C Robert Williams suffered an injury that seems likely to hamper him significantly. Add in his lengthy injury history and he's tough to include as a rotational player when I break down the team he's on here.

For Ja Morant, I project him to come back with a chip on shoulder and to perform at a near all-NBA level like he has in recent seasons. The guy is a hooper and can get by anyone, make difficult plays look easy, and he'll consistently get his teammates open shots. He'll now give actual effort on defense, but that's not where he's a difference maker. Overall, his biggest questions really aren't on the court.

If a voter thinks he's going to return after his suspension and flash a weapon on social media, not be in shape as a result of time away, or generally isn't a really good point guard ...the they'll nik my squad in their rankings. Just like many other players with "non-basketball" concerns. That's all fair game IMO.

For me, I’ll definitely factor things we know about right now into my rankings. I’m not going to assume a player with an injury history will probably miss time if they’re currently healthy, but we know Ja is going to miss at least 25 games, and to me he should get downgraded in my rankings because of it.

Everyone can rank how they want, but I’ll be basing my preseason rankings based on how I think the players will do over the course of the season. I’ll be basing my after-season rankings (I swear we’ll do them) on how the season actually played out. Someone who only plays 50 games will get downgraded compared to a similar player who plays 75.

 

[scoobus]

Ja definitely gets a ding from me. But I see it more as him not missing 25 games, but his min/g being decreased based on his total minutes played this season. So if he plays all 57 games at 32 mpg, in my mind that puts him at 1824 total minutes, or ~22 mpg over the course of an entire season.

Robert Williams is dead. Kelly Oubre, though not his fault, does receive a slight ding.

 

[PIK95]

Pik95 Jr's starting five is probably the best in the league imo. Losing Oubre hurt his bench. If I have time I will review both teams this week.

I think this starting 5 would fare pretty poorly as an actual team.

Would love to see it fwiw.

 

[the moops]

Pik95 Jr's starting five is probably the best in the league imo. Losing Oubre hurt his bench. If I have time I will review both teams this week.

I think this starting 5 would fare pretty poorly as an actual team.

Would love to see it fwiw.

We talking Halliburton, Kyrie, Ingram, Zion, KAT? That is the most fantasy of all fantasy teams. In real life, the one ball thing is a problem, but not nearly the problem of having negative defenders at every single position

 

[Eephus]

Brandin Podziemski

GSW

$3,352,404

 

[trader jake]

Rankings based on projected minutes played for the season is some crazy way to think about team building and value in a real player team draft. We're not talking roto fantasy.

I'm not knocking the team with Jamal Murray here because he happened to get a really bad hamstring pull now (and he also plays on a team smart enough to not rush him back) vs similar players that will inevitably miss games due to their own ankle sprain or load management missed games down the line. See also Trey Murphy III.

Ditto to giving extra credit to a player like Julius Randle because Thibs is a head coach that will play his starters a ridiculous number of minutes compared to smart coaches that like to have their team healthy when it matters. See also Zach LaVine or Spencer Dinwiddie.

I guess I'm a 16 game voter, not an 82 game voter. Good luck all!

 

[Instinctive]

Also the standings in Fantrax are garbage. Dunfee's team kinda blows and he is first place. No offense @dunfee555

I will be basing 0% of my voting on Fantrax stats / rankings. There are a lot of players that "put up stats" but they suck on defense, are total ballhogs only capable of being productive with the ball in their hands, kill team chemistry, etc.

If a team doesn't have a top tier player, has two non-shooters or non-defenders in their starting lineup, has little positional versatility and shooting off their bench, or has a big ol' turd (like Miles Bridges) they could fare worse on my list than others.

Just one voters thoughts.

Same

 

[Jayrod]

I'm considering all of it.

Ja, McCollum, Murray, etc. who are known to be missing time will be a slight downgrade. If I guy never plays, what good is he? As much as this isn't fantasy, it isn't a video game either. Guys have to actually play to win games. Availability is a big reason for some of these guys dropping so far in the draft. If it effected their draft position, it should still effect their value to the team analysis.

I also will consider the Fantrax stuff, mostly for the shooting %, 3PM & analyzing team depth. If a guy has a lot of guys playing and compiling stats, that generally means they can play more than a bunch of nobodies stuck on the end of the bench.

Obviously none of this is 100%, so I won't be relying on any one factor. I'm looking at YTD numbers as well as last season and career trends; reputations, previous awards, etc.

Then yes the subjective "do they fit well together?" analysis, which is kind of the ultimate barometer.

I know a lot of guys will do it, but I'm not a believer in just reading the names and assuming you know how good they are based on name recognition. I watch a lot of NBA, but not enough to know all 200 guys we drafted. I'm also looking up a lot of the 2nd & 3rd stringers on basketball-reference.

 

[the moops]

I guess I'm a 16 game voter, not an 82 game voter. Good luck all!

Well of course you are, you drafted Kawhi and Ja

 

[Desert_Power]

Problem with ignoring injuries too much is your squad has to actually get to the playoffs to be healthy/compete there.

 

[Desert_Power]

I do hate ranking the teams just because I appreciate everyone participating and don’t want to put people low on the list.

 

[Yo Mama]

I do hate ranking the teams just because I appreciate everyone participating and don’t want to put people low on the list.

That’s my favorite part

 

[trader jake]

I guess I'm a 16 game voter, not an 82 game voter. Good luck all!

Well of course you are, you drafted Kawhi and Ja

Exactly!! Kawhi has played in all 10 games, including back-to-back.

Too bad the Clippers made the move for Harden. Such bad team building there. I wish I could vote them lower.

 

[Jayrod]

Just submitted my rankings. That was very, very tough. I think the competition was a lot tougher this year and there was a lot of splitting hairs to differentiate between teams. Went up and down the list 2-3 times just comparing each team to the one's above and below which usually caused a lot of movement.

 

[trader jake]

Ballot sent.

 

[Chemical X]

there are around 17-22 awful teams that i have ranked below 9. honestly, there is no top 9 that i can see. awful teams and bad participants. wish i had more people on ignore so i didn’t have to see their teams.

 

[dunfee555]

Just sent in my rankings. Definitely harder than last year, especially in the middle. Really tough to differentiate between the teams in the 5-14 range.

 

[Kev4029]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

Teams I generally agreed on (had them within 2 spots):
the moops, caustic, Yo Mama, Trader Jake, FatMax, Desert_Power, dunfee555, Chemical X & Instinctive

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots higher:
Son of Yo Mama, Eephus, thecatch, Scoobus, PIK95

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots lower:
Corporation, nysfl2, Frostillicus, Son of PIK

Biggest differences were Corporation (4 vs 17) & thecatch (16 vs 6).

 

[thecatch]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

Teams I generally agreed on (had them within 2 spots):
the moops, caustic, Yo Mama, Trader Jake, FatMax, Desert_Power, dunfee555, Chemical X & Instinctive

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots higher:
Son of Yo Mama, Eephus, thecatch, Scoobus, PIK95

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots lower:
Corporation, nysfl2, Frostillicus, Son of PIK

Biggest differences were Corporation (4 vs 17) & thecatch (16 vs 6).

I've always thought you were much smarter than Kev.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

I had you at #15. You have 2 superstars with extremely high usage neither of which are good defenders and a bunch of average role players. And YOUR centers are the worst in the league. Wendell Carter, Powell & Boban? That is somehow better than Lively, Nurkic & Richards? Yeah, I don't think so by any objective or subjective measure you use.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

Teams I generally agreed on (had them within 2 spots):
the moops, caustic, Yo Mama, Trader Jake, FatMax, Desert_Power, dunfee555, Chemical X & Instinctive

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots higher:
Son of Yo Mama, Eephus, thecatch, Scoobus, PIK95

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots lower:
Corporation, nysfl2, Frostillicus, Son of PIK

Biggest differences were Corporation (4 vs 17) & thecatch (16 vs 6).

I've always thought you were much smarter than Kev.

I think Randle struggles as "the guy" but being able to play off of a top 7 guy in SGA (who a lot of people underrate) & a competent stretch 5 in Chet makes him much more lethal. Not a believer in Mathurin and think Keegan Murray is just OK, but Monk, Reid & Hunter are very solid bench guys.

 

[Kev4029]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

Teams I generally agreed on (had them within 2 spots):
the moops, caustic, Yo Mama, Trader Jake, FatMax, Desert_Power, dunfee555, Chemical X & Instinctive

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots higher:
Son of Yo Mama, Eephus, thecatch, Scoobus, PIK95

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots lower:
Corporation, nysfl2, Frostillicus, Son of PIK

Biggest differences were Corporation (4 vs 17) & thecatch (16 vs 6).

I figured my view on Corporation was going to flow against the masses here. Originally I was going to give slightly longer writeups and ended up doing seven of them before I decided I didn't want to do all 19 - two that I did do were Corp and thecatch....

@thecatch – Got caught going budget rather than talent while also drafting too many young unproven guys. Defense is going to be a little rough without anybody that is a big plus (Shai is a light plus, Chet might be). The team does have complimentary offensive talent, so with Shai and maybe a couple of the young guys improving, the team might look better in April.

@Corporation – I might be a little higher on these guys than most – the offense makes sense, the defense makes sense, the bench has a handful of capable replacements, the probable closing lineup (swap Martin for Claxton) has enough defense and shooting to work to Harden’s strengths and weaknesses. If Murray and Porzingis keep up their hot starts, this team is going to be goooood. Probably my favorite team that went cheap initially.

Here are the other five:

@Frostillicus – Absolutely love the fit and talent of Bam/Jrue/Booker but the rest of the team… not so much. Way too many one way players with pretty much the only exception being Kyle Anderson - kind of. Getting another shooter who is passable defensively (Max Strus type) or another top notch defender who is a decent shooter (Dorian Finny-Smith type) would have made a huge difference.

@the moops – This team is going to be ****ing incredible defensively when healthy and they continue to bring it on the bench with guys like Caruso, Dunn, Capela. There is plenty of offensive talent but shooting is probably somewhere around average or maybe slightly below, and the passing leaves a little to be desired. Top tier.

@nysfl2 – 80% of the way to a starting lineup that would have made tons of sense but a Cole Anthony/Donovan Mitchell backcourt is so flammable and Anthony doesn’t shoot it well enough to make it worthwhile. A defensive forward would have been a much better fit. The bench is probably one of the better benches but it doesn’t really solve the flammable backcourt issue. At least if a team is going to be full of mostly ****ty defenders, having Embiid solves some of that.

@dunfee555 – So close to making a great team but Markell Fultz as the starting PG (and nobody behind him that can shoot either) and forcing JJJ to be a full time center is a bummer. Otherwise, I generally like the talent on the team and there is some bench stuff that will make this a tough team to play.

@caustic – Rebuilt the Nuggets roster with a deeper bench and a slightly worse version of the three guys that aren’t Jokic and Murray. Like the real-life Nuggets, backup center is a problem, but that only exists when Jokic isn’t playing 40 mpg. We’ll see how all the support players look in a few months, but this is a possibility to be one of the top teams.

 

[Kev4029]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

I had you at #15. You have 2 superstars with extremely high usage neither of which are good defenders and a bunch of average role players. And YOUR centers are the worst in the league. Wendell Carter, Powell & Boban? That is somehow better than Lively, Nurkic & Richards? Yeah, I don't think so by any objective or subjective measure you use.

I could see some criticisms for my team, but the offensive pairing of Doncic and Curry being one of them is a surprise. The combined USG% of my 5 starters in 108.3 which seems about where somebody would want a starting group as some of that excess usage for any starting group is coming from mixed bench units.

 

[Frostillicus]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

Teams I generally agreed on (had them within 2 spots):
the moops, caustic, Yo Mama, Trader Jake, FatMax, Desert_Power, dunfee555, Chemical X & Instinctive

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots higher:
Son of Yo Mama, Eephus, thecatch, Scoobus, PIK95

Teams I had ranked 3+ spots lower:
Corporation, nysfl2, Frostillicus, Son of PIK

Biggest differences were Corporation (4 vs 17) & thecatch (16 vs 6).

I figured my view on Corporation was going to flow against the masses here. Originally I was going to give slightly longer writeups and ended up doing seven of them before I decided I didn't want to do all 19 - two that I did do were Corp and thecatch....

@thecatch – Got caught going budget rather than talent while also drafting too many young unproven guys. Defense is going to be a little rough without anybody that is a big plus (Shai is a light plus, Chet might be). The team does have complimentary offensive talent, so with Shai and maybe a couple of the young guys improving, the team might look better in April.

@Corporation – I might be a little higher on these guys than most – the offense makes sense, the defense makes sense, the bench has a handful of capable replacements, the probable closing lineup (swap Martin for Claxton) has enough defense and shooting to work to Harden’s strengths and weaknesses. If Murray and Porzingis keep up their hot starts, this team is going to be goooood. Probably my favorite team that went cheap initially.

Here are the other five:

@Frostillicus – Absolutely love the fit and talent of Bam/Jrue/Booker but the rest of the team… not so much. Way too many one way players with pretty much the only exception being Kyle Anderson - kind of. Getting another shooter who is passable defensively (Max Strus type) or another top notch defender who is a decent shooter (Dorian Finny-Smith type) would have made a huge difference.

@the moops – This team is going to be ****ing incredible defensively when healthy and they continue to bring it on the bench with guys like Caruso, Dunn, Capela. There is plenty of offensive talent but shooting is probably somewhere around average or maybe slightly below, and the passing leaves a little to be desired. Top tier.

@nysfl2 – 80% of the way to a starting lineup that would have made tons of sense but a Cole Anthony/Donovan Mitchell backcourt is so flammable and Anthony doesn’t shoot it well enough to make it worthwhile. A defensive forward would have been a much better fit. The bench is probably one of the better benches but it doesn’t really solve the flammable backcourt issue. At least if a team is going to be full of mostly ****ty defenders, having Embiid solves some of that.

@dunfee555 – So close to making a great team but Markell Fultz as the starting PG (and nobody behind him that can shoot either) and forcing JJJ to be a full time center is a bummer. Otherwise, I generally like the talent on the team and there is some bench stuff that will make this a tough team to play.

@caustic – Rebuilt the Nuggets roster with a deeper bench and a slightly worse version of the three guys that aren’t Jokic and Murray. Like the real-life Nuggets, backup center is a problem, but that only exists when Jokic isn’t playing 40 mpg. We’ll see how all the support players look in a few months, but this is a possibility to be one of the top teams.

dumb and bad takes

 

[Chemical X]

I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for a little over a week so I'm going to share my rankings here to get some **** talking going. I would put my own team somewhere in the top tier.

Tier 1
1	caustic	Nuggets with slightly worse secondary starters but better bench. In Jokic We Trust. Probably not the highest ceiling, but the highest floor.
2	The Moops	Incredibly versatile defensively, passing (and Schroder being the only real PG) is what keeps them from #1.
3	Yo Mama	Lacks thee point shooting, but I like the team makeup.
4	Corporation	Most talented, I think, but downgraded due to Harden doing Harden things.
5	Trader Jake	Kawhi and Lopez are off to slow starts, Morant isn't playing BUT probably the highest ceiling (and maybe tier 3 floor).
Tier 2
6	FatMax	Toughest cut from the group above - I might be underrating them, but I don't love the DeRozan fit and the bench lacks offensive creation.
7	Son of Yo Mama	Should be great in the "regular" season due to defense and shot creation, but shooting sucks and would be exposed in the "playoffs".
8	nysfl2	Offensively, this team will work, but Embiid can't carry this much defensive dead weight.
9	Frostillicus	I think this might be the best top 3 in terms of fit and talent, but worst bottom 12.
10	Desert_Power	Top 6 are pretty darn good, rest of bench is rough, a little skeptical of Wemby on a real team this year.
11	Eephus	Chris Paul should 100% start. Bench feels shallow, Westbrook and White are strange fits. Starting lineup (with Paul) works.
12	dunfee555	Fultz as the PG with no shooting PG behind him kills this team for me. JJJ is also forced out of position.
Tier 3
13	Scoobus	I don't trust anybody to create good offense at a high enough level to compete in this "league". Hard to know if Cunningham is actually good.
14	Jayrod	Defense is getting smoked, worst centers in the league.
15	Son of PIK	This is the worst defense ever assembled - none of the top 6 picks are even average defensively. Fun offense though.
Tier 4
16	thecatch	Shai can't carry this mediocre team to success. Too many rookies/second year guys.
17	PIK95	Defense optional… actually, just no defense allowed. Losing Time Lord hurts but he wasn't saving the Ball/Sabonis/Young triumvirate.
18	Chemical X	Watching Russell and Poole my-turn-your-turn to 6 of 19 shooting every night would make my eyes bleed.
19	Instinctive	Ben Simmons, lol.

fyi, not sure if i’d use russell over giddey, but russell went 55/40/82 last year and seems on a similar pace this year. poole would likely be a 6th man scorer type on the second unit. i’d prolly start giddey, ausar, siakam, kuzma and duren. asaur, siakam and duren seem high level defenders. lots of length here too. i’m gonna have lofton jr. eat you.

 

[dunfee555]

@dunfee555 – So close to making a great team but Markell Fultz as the starting PG (and nobody behind him that can shoot either) and forcing JJJ to be a full time center is a bummer. Otherwise, I generally like the talent on the team and there is some bench stuff that will make this a tough team to play.

Agree about the lack of shooting at PG, that could be a problem. But as a connector beside an elite playmaker like LeBron and surrounded by great shooting everywhere else, the passing (5.7 assists) and defense Fultz will provide to the starting lineup mitigates that to some extent. In late-game situations, I would see going offense/defense substitutions with Beasley and Fultz along with the other starters to maximize both of their talents.

And on the JJJ as a starting center point, that is the position he's going to have to play to reach his highest upside. While his shooting/scoring is elite for a center, it's only slightly above average as a power forward. He can certainly hold up defensively at center. And I tried to cover up for his biggest weakness (rebounding) by getting good rebounders at the other frontcourt positions (Lebron - 8.6 RPG, Porter - 7.9 RPG).

 

[the moops]

i’d prolly start giddey, ausar, siakam, kuzma and duren

Good god. Did you only have like 1/2 the money to spend in this draft or something?

 

[Chemical X]

i’d prolly start giddey, ausar, siakam, kuzma and duren

Good god. Did you only have like 1/2 the money to spend in this draft or something?

i went to the bathroom earlier today and pooped out 11 worse teams than mine.

 

[msudaisy26]

i’d prolly start giddey, ausar, siakam, kuzma and duren

Good god. Did you only have like 1/2 the money to spend in this draft or something?

i went to the bathroom earlier today and pooped out 11 worse teams than mine.

You might want to see doctor. May we recommend a psychiatrist?