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2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Kawhi introduces playoff load management (23 Viewers)

Y'all going back and forth about the call, that missed TIME OUT call was RIDICULOUS. He VERY clearly calls timeout BEFORE they inbounded the ball and was completely ignored. And then did it AGAIN when Maxey went down... ignored again.

This clip shows it fairly well. I have no idea how they didn't grant him that pre-inbounds timeout. Unforgivable and Philly wins that game 95% of the time if they allowed him that VERY CLEAR time out call.
Calling a half-hearted timeout to no one right as they're inbounding the ball, then trying to call the subsequent timeout as the ball is rolling out of Maxey's hands, ain't gunna get it done.
Most time outs are half of the motions he did. Ref was looking at him, he called it, absolutely no reason to not grant that timeout (the one when Maxey had it was questionable I agree). Devastating mistake.
Watch the highlight without it favorably freezing on the exact moment, it's weak as ****.
Didn't know there was "weak" and "strong" time out calls. He made the clear motion. They always give that time out call, and often do with far more casual time out motions. As a ref you know the coach is standing there with his hands up ready to call it, it's completely inexcusable to not grant that time out.

well, it looks like the saga will continue. Not sure what the Sixers hope to gain from this, and I highly doubt the NBA/refs will acknowledge any mistakes here, but will be interesting to see if anything comes of them filing a grievance:


ETA: My 2 cents = Sucks that the refs missed the timeouts, and bad calls went both ways a bit. However, I think the refs are like 11th on the list of priority issues for the Sixers right now. I mean, how the hell does Buddy Hield have 0 3 pointers for the post-season so far. Guy averaged 40% or better for years, and is barely shooting any 3s now???
Bad process with that attempted timeout call got a bad result. In that situation, it should have been an auto timeout to advance the ball to midcourt. Blaming the ref for a split second decision as Maxey is throwing the ball in vs the previous 4.5 seconds where nobody was calling a timeout seems like a cop out from Nurse.
I am not sure about that. I mean what is he supposed to throw a temper tantrum and run on the court when the refs ignore his first attempt calling a time out? Is that what people want in the NBA is coaches running on to the court to stop play and get their way?

I think Jayrod mentioned above, but a buzzer seems like a legit easy solution to help this a bit more
The solution was to call the timeout immediately. That was a horrible situation to attempt to inbound the ball. If he made the timeout call immediately after the make, we aren't having this conversation.

And absolutely, run out onto the court to make that timeout. Coaches do that all the time.
 
The solution was to call the timeout immediately. That was a horrible situation to attempt to inbound the ball. If he made the timeout call immediately after the make, we aren't having this conversation.

And absolutely, run out onto the court to make that timeout. Coaches do that all the time.
That was not their plan though... it was to try to get a quick in bound, and if they were struggling to get the ball in (like they were), then call the timeout (like they did).

And no, coaches in the NBA don't "do this all the time". It's almost always a halfassed gesture to a ref and a time out is called. During a situation like this, with a coach's arms up and ready, this is, as it should be, almost always looked for and called immediately. Completely bogus of them to not give it in this game.

Embiid, Batum, and other players were also all yelling for one too, but that is besides the point. They really screwed this one up.
 
Missing TOs suck and that was probably the most egregious error by the refs there. I think the coaches need some kind of button that can notify the refs because they have to watch players and if they can't hear them not sure how they can know.
It's 2024, I don't know how this isn't happening. A button connected directly to the clock/refs would be so so so easily done. Same in the NFL with the challenge flag, but instead people like to watch a grown man toss a bean bag to get the ref's attention.
 
These refs are a joke.
how they didn't call a foul when Maxey was getting tossed around is a bit beyond me

There was no foul. Take off the homer glasses.
He was thrown to the floor. Head coach still calls a timeout while he has the ball and doesn't get it. Take the hater glasses off for once.

Knicks got tricky tack calls all night and sixers got squat when they needed it.

He wasn't. He fell trying to get a call.
More contact on that play than every foul for the Knicks combined all night.

Lol. Okay

Here you go. Watch it and try not to be a homer.

That Hartenstein offensive rebound was incredible. Game winning play.
He’s developed into a really good player, albeit one that annoys me for no particularly good reason.
 
LOL yes, he pulled back after it wasn't granted because the ball was then inbounded and he didn't want to call one after it was inbounded. Not hard to understand.


What about this one? No Maxey control when he called the timeout again? The ref is looking right at him lol
https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/1782636071458664922

Again watch the video of the play, not a microsecond freeze-frame, ball is coming out as Nurse is trying to get it in during a mad scramble. And you already admitted up thread it was questionable, but w/e, you're obviously dug in here.
 
LOL yes, he pulled back after it wasn't granted because the ball was then inbounded and he didn't want to call one after it was inbounded. Not hard to understand.


What about this one? No Maxey control when he called the timeout again? The ref is looking right at him lol
https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/1782636071458664922

Again watch the video of the play, not a microsecond freeze-frame, ball is coming out as Nurse is trying to get it in during a mad scramble. And you already admitted up thread it was questionable, but w/e, you're obviously dug in here.
Also, the ref "looking right at him" is watching the play, not looking at Nurse, who doesn't even signal the timeout towards him. This again would require you to watch the video.
 
LOL yes, he pulled back after it wasn't granted because the ball was then inbounded and he didn't want to call one after it was inbounded. Not hard to understand.


What about this one? No Maxey control when he called the timeout again? The ref is looking right at him lol
https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/1782636071458664922

Again watch the video of the play, not a microsecond freeze-frame, ball is coming out as Nurse is trying to get it in during a mad scramble. And you already admitted up thread it was questionable, but w/e, you're obviously dug in here.
lol you're talking about of both sides of your mouth here. You're showing me slowed down screen grabs to prove your point, yet telling me to not look at freeze framed shots too. You're extremely dug in. And yes, I thought the inbounds one was FAR more egregious. Seeing this angle of it though, it's pretty clear that he is calling time out as he possess the ball. They give you this time out 9 times out of 10 in this situation. Not to mention Embiid, Batum, etc all screaming/signalling time out to the ref at the same time.

So yes, freeze-framing it shows there was a missed time out on both attempts. To miss both of these, in a game of this magnitude, at a time in the game like this, is absolutely inexcusable. And this isn't even to mention the Brunson Jersey grab, other players screaming time out, or Maxey getting hit as he went down.

I don't think the refs are biased, or it's rigged or anything like that, it was just an inexcusable myriad of things the refs "didn't see in real time" on that play... which resulted in the game.

Hopefully this fires up the team for Thursday, series is obviously over if they lose that one, and Embiid seems broken.
 
LOL yes, he pulled back after it wasn't granted because the ball was then inbounded and he didn't want to call one after it was inbounded. Not hard to understand.


What about this one? No Maxey control when he called the timeout again? The ref is looking right at him lol

In real time it is easy to miss the timeout call when he was on the ground. It wasn't even a half second before he lost the ball again.
 
ETA: My 2 cents = Sucks that the refs missed the timeouts, and bad calls went both ways a bit. However, I think the refs are like 11th on the list of priority issues for the Sixers right now.
Something is going on with Embiid's eye too. Not sure what's up with that, lots of talk in the comments about it.
Weird stuff here.

 
ETA: My 2 cents = Sucks that the refs missed the timeouts, and bad calls went both ways a bit. However, I think the refs are like 11th on the list of priority issues for the Sixers right now.
Something is going on with Embiid's eye too. Not sure what's up with that, lots of talk in the comments about it.
Weird stuff here.


He is winking at Johtay Porter so he knows when to bet.
 
Inbound play where maxey lost the ball. Brunson with full jersey turning him as he's trying to to catch it. Guess that's clean in the NBA.

I kind of like that Nick Nurse called a timeout before the inbounds pass, and then (looking directly at the refs again) called a time out again when Maxey caught the inbounds pass.

Tough loss for sure. If they go on to lose this series this game will haunt them. Up 4 points with 40-some seconds left in the game will be one that lingers. If they take both games in Philly and make it a 3 game series it should be pretty fun.
Missing TOs suck and that was probably the most egregious error by the refs there. I think the coaches need some kind of button that can notify the refs because they have to watch players and if they can't hear them not sure how they can know.
refs should wear a shock collar connected to that button.
 
LOL yes, he pulled back after it wasn't granted because the ball was then inbounded and he didn't want to call one after it was inbounded. Not hard to understand.


What about this one? No Maxey control when he called the timeout again? The ref is looking right at him lol
https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/1782636071458664922

Again watch the video of the play, not a microsecond freeze-frame, ball is coming out as Nurse is trying to get it in during a mad scramble. And you already admitted up thread it was questionable, but w/e, you're obviously dug in here.
lol you're talking about of both sides of your mouth here. You're showing me slowed down screen grabs to prove your point, yet telling me to not look at freeze framed shots too. You're extremely dug in. And yes, I thought the inbounds one was FAR more egregious. Seeing this angle of it though, it's pretty clear that he is calling time out as he possess the ball. They give you this time out 9 times out of 10 in this situation. Not to mention Embiid, Batum, etc all screaming/signalling time out to the ref at the same time.

So yes, freeze-framing it shows there was a missed time out on both attempts. To miss both of these, in a game of this magnitude, at a time in the game like this, is absolutely inexcusable. And this isn't even to mention the Brunson Jersey grab, other players screaming time out, or Maxey getting hit as he went down.

I don't think the refs are biased, or it's rigged or anything like that, it was just an inexcusable myriad of things the refs "didn't see in real time" on that play... which resulted in the game.

Hopefully this fires up the team for Thursday, series is obviously over if they lose that one, and Embiid seems broken.
Embiid may be deaf by then too.
 
Y'all going back and forth about the call, that missed TIME OUT call was RIDICULOUS. He VERY clearly calls timeout BEFORE they inbounded the ball and was completely ignored. And then did it AGAIN when Maxey went down... ignored again.

This clip shows it fairly well. I have no idea how they didn't grant him that pre-inbounds timeout. Unforgivable and Philly wins that game 95% of the time if they allowed him that VERY CLEAR time out call.
Calling a half-hearted timeout to no one right as they're inbounding the ball, then trying to call the subsequent timeout as the ball is rolling out of Maxey's hands, ain't gunna get it done.
Most time outs are half of the motions he did. Ref was looking at him, he called it, absolutely no reason to not grant that timeout (the one when Maxey had it was questionable I agree). Devastating mistake.
Watch the highlight without it favorably freezing on the exact moment, it's weak as ****.
Didn't know there was "weak" and "strong" time out calls. He made the clear motion. They always give that time out call, and often do with far more casual time out motions. As a ref you know the coach is standing there with his hands up ready to call it, it's completely inexcusable to not grant that time out.

well, it looks like the saga will continue. Not sure what the Sixers hope to gain from this, and I highly doubt the NBA/refs will acknowledge any mistakes here, but will be interesting to see if anything comes of them filing a grievance:
The Process = Paperwork

The only tangible thing that comes from filing a grievance is keeping your most rabid fans debating everything but what the team did wrong in a loss.

Says more about the organizational leadership behind the scenes than anything else. See also: Daryl Morey's Rockets in 2019.
 
As has been said many times, a series doesn't really start until a road team wins a game. So far, the home teams have held serve. Road teams will start winning . . . they always do.

Here were the records for road teams across the past 3 post seasons in Round 1.

2022-23: 17-25 .405
2021-22: 19-24 .442
2020-21: 21-22 .488

Road teams overall had a .444 winning percentage in the regular season this year. Road teams against the 16 playoff teams this year had a .319 winning percentage.
 
As has been said many times, a series doesn't really start until a road team wins a game. So far, the home teams have held serve. Road teams will start winning . . . they always do.

Here were the records for road teams across the past 3 post seasons in Round 1.

2022-23: 17-25 .405
2021-22: 19-24 .442
2020-21: 21-22 .488

Road teams overall had a .444 winning percentage in the regular season this year. Road teams against the 16 playoff teams this year had a .319 winning percentage.
Yeah but I'm hoping this doesn't start until Wednesday at the earliest.

#GoWolves
 
Home / Road records across the playoffs across the past 3 seasons (including games this year so far):

DEN 13-2 | 6-6
MIA 13-7 | 11-11
BOS 12-12 | 14-7
PHO 9-4 | 4-8
PHI 7-4 | 6-8
NYK 6-1 | 2-4
DAL 6-2 | 3-8
LAL 6-2 | 2-8
MIL 5-5 | 4-4
CLE 3-2 | 0-2
MIN 3-3 | 1-5
OKC 1-0 | 0-0
NOP 1-2 | 1-3
LAC 1-2 | 1-2
IND 0-0 | 0-1
ORL 0-0 | 0-2

In the 2022-23 and 2023-24 regular seasons combined, the Celtics only had 13 home losses (69-13). Yet they've had 12 home loses in the past 3 playoffs. Equally odd is that they are the only team in this group of playoff teams with a winning record on the road in the post season in that same time.
 
Home / Road records across the playoffs across the past 3 seasons (including games this year so far):

DEN 13-2 | 6-6
MIA 13-7 | 11-11
BOS 12-12 | 14-7
PHO 9-4 | 4-8
PHI 7-4 | 6-8
NYK 6-1 | 2-4
DAL 6-2 | 3-8
LAL 6-2 | 2-8
MIL 5-5 | 4-4
CLE 3-2 | 0-2
MIN 3-3 | 1-5
OKC 1-0 | 0-0
NOP 1-2 | 1-3
LAC 1-2 | 1-2
IND 0-0 | 0-1
ORL 0-0 | 0-2

In the 2022-23 and 2023-24 regular seasons combined, the Celtics only had 13 home losses (69-13). Yet they've had 12 home loses in the past 3 playoffs. Equally odd is that they are the only team in this group of playoff teams with a winning record on the road in the post season in that same time.
Last year's Celtics playoffs was fluky.

That's what I tell myself anyway.
 
I’m not sure if any of you have started watching any of the roommates podcast with Brunson and Hart from the Knicks—but it’s certainly a vibe. They recently had Tracy Morgan on—and it was hilarious. You can definitely tell that the Knicks players really enjoy each other and seem to be a loose and fun group. This clip had me rolling.

 
Last year's Celtics playoffs was fluky.

That's what I tell myself anyway.
What I tell myself (or try to convince myself) is that this Celtics team is different and have better options. Last year, Smart, Timelord, Grant, and Brogdon played a fair amount in the post-season, and this go round KP, White, Holiday, and Hauser or PP will take those minutes. BOS didn't really get much late game production from that grouping last season, and the minutes allocated to the players I just mentioned should lead to more consistent offense (and guys I would trust to shoot more than those other players). We'll have to see how much Pritchard and Hauser play in late game situations, but I would trust any of the starters and Al as guys to make good decisions and take clutch shots. I still don't trust Tatum at the end of games, as we've seen countless times that he wants to be the guy to dribble out the shot clock and then heave up a 28-footer.

The solution is so simple, yet they don't implement it. Run a regular set, go pick and roll, or have KP or Tatum in the high post and either get a shot in the paint or get fouled. That is such a higher percentage outcome than chucking a three. I haven't looked into it, but I would guess Boston has more options that they trust to make a shot than most teams do. I also think they may not find themselves in many games that are tight at the end of the game. IIRC, they had 20+ point leads in half their games this season.

I also think that some of their reliance on taking a lot of threes and not taking a lot of shots in the paint late in the season was by design to try to keep guys healthy. They had nothing to play for the last how many weeks. No point in risking injury by having guys crash the boards, take additional wear and tear lowering their shoulders and driving, or otherwise tip their hands in terms of other actions or sets they can run.
 
As far as the Celtics go, after Game 1 against the Heat, Boston is now 55-9 (.859) in games they made 15 three pointers. That's half their losses on the season. They lost to CLE (-1), IND (-2), CHA (-3), PHI (-3), OKC (-4), GSW -6 in OT), NYK (-9), and MIL (-13). Those last two games they had a 14-game lead and had already clinched the #1 seed. The flip side to that is they are only 10-9 in games they DON'T make 15 three pointers. I know a lot of analysts have suggested they can't consistently keep making that may threes in a game . . . but they've done it in 77% of their games.

Here are the updated team records when a team makes 15 3Ps or allows 15 3Ps in a game this year (including the playoffs so far):

BOS 55-9 | 19-10
DAL 35-10 | 13-12
MIL 28-9 | 14-12
NYK 25-5 | 8-15
IND 23-8 | 4-8
OKC 22-8 | 17-11
CLE 21-9 | 9-14
NOP 18-3 | 12-18
PHO 18-5 | 13-17
LAC 15-3 | 13-14
MIA 15-6 | 8-16
LAL 14-4 | 20-18
MIN 13-4 | 5-7
DEN 11-3 | 6-9
PHI 11-7 | 6-13
ORL 5-3 | 4-15

I was initially skeptical about BOS shooting so many three pointers, but they clearly have an advantage in implementing that strategy. Teams allowing 15 threes a game don't have great records, which only plays into the strategy of shooting a lot of threes. Sure, the C's are basically a .500 team when they don't make that many threes, but that hasn't happened very often this season. Where is the fatal flaw in Mazzulla's bombs away strategy?
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
:lmao:

That's not a foul on Lebron. KCP fell over his own feet

-edit- And he hardly bricked it.
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
:lmao:

That's not a foul on Lebron. KCP fell over his own feet

-edit- And he hardly bricked it.
:lmao: and :lmao::lmao:
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
:lmao:

That's not a foul on Lebron. KCP fell over his own feet

-edit- And he hardly bricked it.
:lmao: and :lmao::lmao:
OK - who here besides this fool thinks that should be an offensive foul on Lebron?
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
:lmao:

That's not a foul on Lebron. KCP fell over his own feet

-edit- And he hardly bricked it.
:lmao: and :lmao::lmao:
OK - who here besides this fool thinks that should be an offensive foul on Lebron?
Lol. I don't think it should have been a call, genius. That's the whole point. The refs let them play on both ends. Lebron got a wide open look to end it and he gagged. But instead of blaming himself he and Ham went at the officials
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
wat
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
I fell asleep during the 3rd quarter and woke up right after the game winner. :bag:

What plays was LeBron upset about?
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
:lmao:

That's not a foul on Lebron. KCP fell over his own feet

-edit- And he hardly bricked it.
:lmao: and :lmao::lmao:
OK - who here besides this fool thinks that should be an offensive foul on Lebron?
His arm extends but I'm not sure if that is because KCP flopped or because Lebron pushed him a bit. I think a view from the opposite side of the court would show that better. That might be a call in a different situation, but they were mostly letting both teams play reasonably physically, KCP exaggerated the contact, and there was 15 seconds left or whatever. Good no-call.
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
I fell asleep during the 3rd quarter and woke up right after the game winner. :bag:

What plays was LeBron upset about?
Him and Ham were both going off about the non-call against D-Lo that happened......in the 3RD QUARTER.....well before a comeback was even in sight.

That's the hilarious thing. These guys are so desperate and grasping for straws, their play is to put this irrelevant non-call out in the open so they might be able to influence officiating going forward. Everybody knows what they're doing. It's pathetic, and makes it clear that they've got no other ideas on how they can possibly beat Denver.
 
Last edited:
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
I fell asleep during the 3rd quarter and woke up right after the game winner. :bag:

What plays was LeBron upset about?
Him and Ham were both going off about the non-call against D-Lo that happened......in the 3RD QUARTER. Well before a comeback was even in sight.

That's the hilarious thing. These guys are so desperate and grasping for straws, their play is to put this irrelevant non-call out in the open so they might be able to influence officiating going forward. Everybody knows what they're doing. It's pathetic, and makes it clear that they've got no other ideas on how they can possibly beat Denver.

I don't know what the rules were for the refs in their review, but they called the initial foul on MPJ for contact from his left arm to DLo's hip. In the review, I thought that was pretty clearly no a foul, but as DLo attempted the layup, MPJ's hand does come down and hit his face a bit on the contest. That should have been a foul, but I don't know if that could have been included in the review or not.

Here is the play in question (sorry for the ****ty TikTok link but it was the only one I could find).
 
Also, I agree that all the bitching in the press conferences was done to influence officiating in the next game. Lebron and AD play that card a lot and I think that is part of the reason why they get such a favorable whistle. AD also gets a good whistle because he falls down a lot - that would be a great drinking game. Take a shot every time AD falls down. Drink plenty of water, because you are getting blackout drunk.
 
I don't know what the rules were for the refs in their review, but they called the initial foul on MPJ for contact from his left arm to DLo's hip. In the review, I thought that was pretty clearly no a foul, but as DLo attempted the layup, MPJ's hand does come down and hit his face a bit on the contest. That should have been a foul, but I don't know if that could have been included in the review or not.
It's dumb that they can only look at what the initial call was about. I mean I get not wanting to open it up to look at everything that happens after the whistle, but a case like this, where the follow through whacks a dude in the head should be a foul
 
Love the new thread title

Pretty ironic for Lebron to be going off on the refs...when he basically shoved KCP to the ground with a forearm to clear space for his last WIDE open three and potential dagger....which of course he bricked
I fell asleep during the 3rd quarter and woke up right after the game winner. :bag:

What plays was LeBron upset about?
I did the same last night AND told my wife it was okay to put a show on when I thought the 76ers had it won. :bag: :bag:

Missed two great endings.
 
Interesting for upcoming games:

Dallas, Indiana, and Phoenix all would be expected to win just looking at the expected points from the shot profile of each team in their respective games.

Obviously not the end all be all and you have to make shots to get points, and the sample size is by nature small, but if that holds, you'd expect them to win some games here.
 
:rant:

The Pacers-Bucks game is on the NBA Network and Bally Sports? Great.

And its blacked out locally on NBA Network, so only available on Bally at $20/month. I'm sure locals are still pleased to have paid $250M to support the new stadium!

I've texted my teenager to get a dodgy stream link for this evening.
 
Also, I agree that all the bitching in the press conferences was done to influence officiating in the next game. Lebron and AD play that card a lot and I think that is part of the reason why they get such a favorable whistle. AD also gets a good whistle because he falls down a lot - that would be a great drinking game. Take a shot every time AD falls down. Drink plenty of water, because you are getting blackout drunk.
I'll be shocked if LA doesn't shoot 50 free throws next game.
 
Also, I agree that all the bitching in the press conferences was done to influence officiating in the next game. Lebron and AD play that card a lot and I think that is part of the reason why they get such a favorable whistle. AD also gets a good whistle because he falls down a lot - that would be a great drinking game. Take a shot every time AD falls down. Drink plenty of water, because you are getting blackout drunk.
I'll be shocked if LA doesn't shoot 50 free throws next game.
That may not be as shocking as it appears.

Over the past two years, the Lakers have gone to the free throw line 983 more times than their opponents (source: Tony Kornheiser, PTI).

The next closest is Miami at 386, nearly 600 fewer.
 

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