2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (2 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

Jrue really isn’t under-reported…everyone understands what his value is…it is so obvious to see…IMO moving on from Marcus Smart is what is being under-reported right now…that was something that should have happened a few years earlier.

I mentioned the addition by subtraction element of moving on from Smart to Holiday probably 10 pages ago. Smart in the 2022 playoff run: -2 2 points per 100 possessions, .112 WS/48 minutes in the playoffs. Holiday so far this postseason: +17 points per 100 possessions, .168 WS/48 minutes.

 

[Anarchy99]

I guess you don't watch/listen to many of these talking head shows. Everything is about Tatum and Brown. Boston has the closest thing to a Big 5 as you can get - such an impressive starting lineup. If they don't win with all that talent this will be one of the bigger letdowns in recent memory.

That's the part that still has me scratching my head. CBSSports was one of the places that had Boston with 5 of the Top 7 players in the series and had Dallas winning. I've seen other places with Boston with 6 of the Top 8 in their player rankings yet picking Dallas to win. People can pick whomever they want . . . it won't make any difference who wins or not. CBS explains that 6 of the games will end in clutch situations and the Mavs will dominate in those types of games.

I still think a lot of the series predictions are based on who people want to win. A lot of folks just flat out hate the Celtics (for whatever reason). The panel of ESPN's 17 experts went 9-8 in favor of Dallas. From what I have observed, it's about an even split on who people are picking. We finally get to settle things on the court.

 

[Major]

I guess you don't watch/listen to many of these talking head shows. Everything is about Tatum and Brown. Boston has the closest thing to a Big 5 as you can get - such an impressive starting lineup. If they don't win with all that talent this will be one of the bigger letdowns in recent memory.

That's the part that still has me scratching my head. CBSSports was one of the places that had Boston with 5 of the Top 7 players in the series and had Dallas winning. I've seen other places with Boston with 6 of the Top 8 in their player rankings yet picking Dallas to win. People can pick whomever they want . . . it won't make any difference who wins or not. CBS explains that 6 of the games will end in clutch situations and the Mavs will dominate in those types of games.

I still think a lot of the series predictions are based on who people want to win. A lot of folks just flat out hate the Celtics (for whatever reason). The panel of ESPN's 17 experts went 9-8 in favor of Dallas. From what I have observed, it's about an even split on who people are picking. We finally get to settle things on the court.

Yeah, I'm a bit biased. I've always liked the Celtics just hate Tatum more and hope he continues on his Harden track.

 

[Capella]

Should be a fun series. Celtics are definitely the better top-7 but Luka clears everybody substantially. Can he raise his game another level to do it? He’s a pretty rare player. Excited to see it.

 

[Capella]

That's the part that still has me scratching my head. CBSSports was one of the places that had Boston with 5 of the Top 7 players in the series and had Dallas winning. I've seen other places with Boston with 6 of the Top 8 in their player rankings yet picking Dallas to win.

Because Luka

 

[Bossman]

As a Celtics fan and only a casual NBA fan, I know almost nothing about DAL ... other than Luka and Kyrie.
That said, if BOS is hitting their 3's and playing defense like they are capable of, this will be a short series.
... and I absolutely HATE the fact that it comes down to BOS being able to hit 3's but that's how it's been (for the most part) with this group.

 

[gdub]

I’m a little surprised by the predictions of the Mavs taking this series. This Celts team is loaded. If Boston wasn’t on the jersey, more people would be picking/rooting for them. I get it…people don’t like Boston sports teams. Surprised more people don’t like this squad. Tatum is a whiner for sure, but this team was built the right way with homegrown superstars and added team first type guys like Horford, Holiday, and White. All 8 of their rotation guys can knock down the 3. If they are hitting their 3’s and don’t go ice cold shooting the ball, this series won’t be close.

 

[Jayrod]

I guess you don't watch/listen to many of these talking head shows. Everything is about Tatum and Brown. Boston has the closest thing to a Big 5 as you can get - such an impressive starting lineup. If they don't win with all that talent this will be one of the bigger letdowns in recent memory.

That's the part that still has me scratching my head. CBSSports was one of the places that had Boston with 5 of the Top 7 players in the series and had Dallas winning. I've seen other places with Boston with 6 of the Top 8 in their player rankings yet picking Dallas to win. People can pick whomever they want . . . it won't make any difference who wins or not. CBS explains that 6 of the games will end in clutch situations and the Mavs will dominate in those types of games.

I still think a lot of the series predictions are based on who people want to win. A lot of folks just flat out hate the Celtics (for whatever reason). The panel of ESPN's 17 experts went 9-8 in favor of Dallas. From what I have observed, it's about an even split on who people are picking. We finally get to settle things on the court.

I think the Dallas picks are also about 2 things:
1) playoff path - Dallas was tested and Boston wasn't
2) Last 2 years of Boston losing a series they were favored in. That game 7 last year was especially weak and that was the last time Boston was tested in the playoffs.

 

[Major]

That's the part that still has me scratching my head. CBSSports was one of the places that had Boston with 5 of the Top 7 players in the series and had Dallas winning. I've seen other places with Boston with 6 of the Top 8 in their player rankings yet picking Dallas to win.

Because Luka

also Kyrie being the opposite of Tatum in clutch time

 

[Anarchy99]

I’m a little surprised by the predictions of the Mavs taking this series. This Celts team is loaded. If Boston wasn’t on the jersey, more people would be picking/rooting for them. I get it…people don’t like Boston sports teams. Surprised more people don’t like this squad. Tatum is a whiner for sure, but this team was built the right way with homegrown superstars and added team first type guys like Horford, Holiday, and White. All 8 of their rotation guys can knock down the 3. If they are hitting their 3’s and don’t go ice cold shooting the ball, this series won’t be close.

Another thing across sports that I always find fascinating is the concept that not making the playoffs or getting bounced in the first round is better and more preferrable than winning several series and losing in the conference finals or finals. If teams do they, then they are chokers and can't close out games or series.

Looking back at the Celtics in their stretch of 6 ECFs appearances in the past 8 seasons, they lost to LeBron twice and Steph once. The Warriors ended up winning 3 titles, LeBron won once, the Bucks won one year, and who would have picked Boston to be the Nuggets last year? The easiest path before this season was 2019 Kyrie season when they got beat by the Bucks early and the Raptors went on to win.

I guess you don't watch/listen to many of these talking head shows. Everything is about Tatum and Brown. Boston has the closest thing to a Big 5 as you can get - such an impressive starting lineup. If they don't win with all that talent this will be one of the bigger letdowns in recent memory.

That's the part that still has me scratching my head. CBSSports was one of the places that had Boston with 5 of the Top 7 players in the series and had Dallas winning. I've seen other places with Boston with 6 of the Top 8 in their player rankings yet picking Dallas to win. People can pick whomever they want . . . it won't make any difference who wins or not. CBS explains that 6 of the games will end in clutch situations and the Mavs will dominate in those types of games.

I still think a lot of the series predictions are based on who people want to win. A lot of folks just flat out hate the Celtics (for whatever reason). The panel of ESPN's 17 experts went 9-8 in favor of Dallas. From what I have observed, it's about an even split on who people are picking. We finally get to settle things on the court.

I think the Dallas picks are also about 2 things:
1) playoff path - Dallas was tested and Boston wasn't
2) Last 2 years of Boston losing a series they were favored in. That game 7 last year was especially weak and that was the last time Boston was tested in the playoffs.

Like I just mentioned in terms of playoff advancement, Boston gets dinged for losing against the Heat last season in the ECF when Tatum got hurt on the first possession of Game 7 (yes, they played terrible after that). But Dallas made no effort to make the playoffs last year to keep their draft pick but somehow that's a better outcome (or does not bear any scrutiny).

The year Boston lost to GS, so did Luka and the Mavs . . . yet there hasn't been a peep made about that. I know what the analytics said about the BOS / GS series, but the Warriors were -160 favorites to win the Finals that year. Somehow, the media has latched on to Boston as the chokers that can't close the deal. None of the hyperbole will matter with the actual games starting tonight.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I am excited for this series. Lots of little side stories—Kristaps and Kyrie playing their former teams, Luka and Tatum competing not only for a title—but to potentially be one of the faces of the NBA…etc. From top to bottom—I think that Boston has the more talented team. With that said, I think that Luka is the best player in the series when he is healthy—and I think that when he’s on—he’s the best player in the league. I think that Luka and Jokic are on a different level when they are playing at their peaks—and there is a pretty big dropoff when it comes to the next tier. I also think that Dallas has the two best closers/clutch players in the series with Luka and Kyrie. Regardless of overall talent—I think that having two really good clutch players bodes well for them in close games. I personally think that Boston probably has a 55-60% to win the series—but this also means that I don’t think that Dallas is some huge under dog.

 

[Boston]

I agree with your sentiment but Dallas being matched up with +50 win teams the entire playoffs slaying the best in a superior West while the Celtics have been facing hospital wards is a major reason I'm picking the Mavs. Battle tested.

I guess it depends on what people consider "battle tested." Some of the core guys on the Celtics have a ton of playoff experience since their initial run starting in 2017. Since then, Boston in the playoffs has beaten Embiid 3 times, Giannis and Butler twice, as well as beating KD and Kyrie. They also played LeBron twice and Steph once. In that time, they've won 15 series. Does that not qualify as being battle tested?

Of the Top 20 guys in the series, here's the breakdown of playoff experience:
Horford - 181 games, Brown - 119, Tatum - 108, Holiday - 84, White - 67, Pritchard - 53, Hauser - 36, Kornet - 29, Tillman - 24, Porzingis - 14
Kyrie - 91, Doncic - 45, Jones - 39, Kleber - 39, Hardaway - 38, Green - 34, Exum - 33, Gafford - 22, Washington - 17, Lively - 16

Record the past 3 seasons vs. teams with 50+ wins (regular and post season): BOS 42-34, DAL 37-44. Yes, the Mavs have beaten three very good teams to get here (including two with hardly and playoff experience). Oddly enough, there's an argument that BOSTON is the more battle tested team looking at a full body of work and not just the last month and a half.

You're not wrong. While Tatum will get all the glory, Jrue will be the under reported key factor if you guys win. That dude is the glue that holds them together when in past years they'd fall apart.

Jrue really isn’t under-reported…everyone understands what his value is…it is so obvious to see…IMO moving on from Marcus Smart is what is being under-reported right now…that was something that should have happened a few years earlier.

I guess you don't watch/listen to many of these talking head shows. Everything is about Tatum and Brown. Boston has the closest thing to a Big 5 as you can get - such an impressive starting lineup. If they don't win with all that talent this will be one of the bigger letdowns in recent memory. That being said, Dallas in 7.

I do…it is the NBA and the media always focuses on the star…always has been that way but it is even more so now…so if your point is about the media than I do agree and will have misunderstood what your post was about because anyone who knows the NBA at least a decent amount fully understands what Holliday is all about and why he is so important to the C’s finally getting over the hump.

 

[Desert_Power]

I guess you don't watch/listen to many of these talking head shows. Everything is about Tatum and Brown. Boston has the closest thing to a Big 5 as you can get - such an impressive starting lineup. If they don't win with all that talent this will be one of the bigger letdowns in recent memory.

That's the part that still has me scratching my head. CBSSports was one of the places that had Boston with 5 of the Top 7 players in the series and had Dallas winning. I've seen other places with Boston with 6 of the Top 8 in their player rankings yet picking Dallas to win. People can pick whomever they want . . . it won't make any difference who wins or not. CBS explains that 6 of the games will end in clutch situations and the Mavs will dominate in those types of games.

I still think a lot of the series predictions are based on who people want to win. A lot of folks just flat out hate the Celtics (for whatever reason). The panel of ESPN's 17 experts went 9-8 in favor of Dallas. From what I have observed, it's about an even split on who people are picking. We finally get to settle things on the court.

I think the Dallas picks are also about 2 things:
1) playoff path - Dallas was tested and Boston wasn't
2) Last 2 years of Boston losing a series they were favored in. That game 7 last year was especially weak and that was the last time Boston was tested in the playoffs.

Also some recency bias/momentum picks. They just beat a very good Wolves team who beat the defending champs Nuggets.

I am personally leaning Boston still, but probably enough to bet on it. Boston's excellent defensive guards matched up against the Luka/Kyrie backcourt will be really fun.

 

[Boston]

Before a finals in any sport, I am always intrigued by what a championship (or defeat) can do to a player's current legacy/rep...here are a few takes that will lean Celtic heavy because I know them much better:

Jayson Tatum-probably has more on the line than any player in this series...if the C's win it is a very big monkey off his back and if he plays at an MVP-level things go to another level and all the winning (without a championship) he has done in his career looks a whole lot better...if he under-performs and the C's lose he will have solidified the narrative that he is not a legit aplha.

Luka Doncic-he is in a great spot right now...if the Mavs win his legacy goes to another level as he will have taken a #5 seed thru a minefield of quality opponents to win a title...it would be an unbelievable achievement and would probably make him the league's alpha taking over for Jokic...on the flipside if the Mavs lose his legacy really doesn't get dinged as the Mavs aren't supposed to be here and the C's have been the best team in the NBA this year.

Jaylen Brown-if the C's win and he performs like he has in this year's playoffs he now goes from being a top 15-20 player to a rock-solid top 10 player IMO...he really has a chance to put to bed any doubts anyone has as to whether he is a legit star.

Kyrie Irving-has a chance to re-write the book that was being written about him being a talented enigma that was killing teams...this would be two titles as the #2 on two different teams...it really adds a totally different and unexpected chapter to his career.

Jrue Holladay-if the C's win, he will probably be viewed as the missing piece...that would be two rings for two different teams, and I think he now starts sniffing around being a potential Hall-of-Famer.

Everyone else on the Mavs-I don't mean that as a negative but if the Mavs win guys like Washington, Gafford and Lively get a huge bump with their rep and it won't hurt them with future contracts or other contenders trying to acquire them.

Al Horford-a ring as the veteran leader would really bookend a hell-of-a-career that also includes two NCAA titles.

Joe Mazzula-it is amazing how much of an afterthought he has become going into the finals because coming into the year he was probably the biggest question mark the C's had...he was kind of the "accidental HC' after the whole Udoka debacle...after a rocky first year he has really grown and has become a quality Coach...a ring in his second year would be a big time accomplishment and set him up for a long tenure as the Celtic's HC.

Brad Stevens-I thought when he stepped down as the HC to become GM that it was just a temp job and he would be back coaching a big time college program pretty quickly...absolutely no one saw him becoming a GM...not only has he stayed as a GM but he had done a fantastic job...granted it makes life easier with Tatum and Brown in place but he has been very active finding the right players to surround them with by trading for White-Holladay-Horford-Porzingas and he has done an excellent job signing guys as well and keeping the organization composed which can be difficult in Boston...if the C's win this he will be a very big reason why and he will be right there with anyone else when talking about top executives in the NBA.

 

[General Malaise]

Alright I took Dallas to win the series at +175. Too juicy to pass up.

Also went alt line Mavs -5 +380 for poops and chuckles. I think they catch Boston off guard tonight.

 

[Anarchy99]

I love the hot takes right now. Some of the better ones I have seen include:

- win or lose, no way Boston gets back to the Finals next year . . . they won’t ever be a Top 5 team
- with a win, BOS not among best teams ever no matter what the analytics or their record say
- with a win, Holiday and Horford become likely HOFers
- with a Mavs win, Luka becomes the regular season MVP favorite by a mile for next season
- with a win and a series MVP award, Tatum is still barely a Top 10 player (Jokić, Doncic, Giannis, Embiid, SGA, Brunson, ANT, Wemby, Curry, LeBron)
- without one minute played in the series, who will replace Mazzulla as Boston coach (and how will Boston break up the team)
- with a win, Luka/Ky about to go on a run and rewrite history books as best backcourt ever with multiple titles on tap
- with a loss, the Jays will never play in the Finals again (together or apart)
- win or lose, BOS will be moving mainstays to get under the apron

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I love the hot takes right now. Some of the better ones I have seen include:

- win or lose, no way Boston gets back to the Finals next year . . . they won’t ever be a Top 5 team
- with a win, BOS not among best teams ever no matter what the analytics or their record say
- with a win, Holiday and Horford become likely HOFers
- with a Mavs win, Luka becomes the regular season MVP favorite by a mile for next season
- with a win and a series MVP award, Tatum is still barely a Top 10 player (Jokić, Doncic, Giannis, Embiid, SGA, Brunson, ANT, Wemby, Curry, LeBron)
- without one minute played in the series, who will replace Mazzulla as Boston coach (and how will Boston break up the team)
- with a win, Luka/Ky about to go on a run and rewrite history books as best backcourt ever with multiple titles on tap
- with a loss, the Jays will never play in the Finals again (together or apart)
- win or lose, BOS will be moving mainstays to get under the apron

I’m not sure the Tatum barely being a top 10 player even if the Celtics win and him being MVP is a hot take. Regardless of the outcome of this series, I think he’s probably somewhere in that 7-12 range. If Boston wins it all this season—-certainly Tatum deserves some credit—but the vast majority of the reason for them winning will be because they have a very powerful and talented roster. I don’t think the outcome of this series will really elevate or drop Tatum much. I feel like he’s top 10ish regardless. Are you of the belief that he should somehow catapult into being top 5 or something with a win and a finals MVP?

 

[msudaisy26]

Alright I took Dallas to win the series at +175. Too juicy to pass up.

Also went alt line Mavs -5 +380 for poops and chuckles. I think they catch Boston off guard tonight.

Plus 380 seems like a lot for a minus 5

 

[msudaisy26]

If I am Boston I am attacking Luka as much as possible. He isn't a great defender, he isn't 100 percent and I want to wear him out on defense so he doesn't wear the Celtics out in the 4th quarter.

 

[Anarchy99]

Are you of the belief that he should somehow catapult into being top 5 or something with a win and a finals MVP?

I mostly don't care about ranking active players. As far as Tatum goes, he's been first team All-NBA 3 seasons in a row . . . which would make him Top 5 on that front. There are reasons for that being misleading (some players missed too much time to qualify or played other positions). The part that rubbed me the wrong way was the panel wouldn't even give him any props for being on an 80-win team capped by a Finals MVP (again, in theory), even if he averaged 35 / 12 / 8 in the Finals and Boston won in 5 games. I don't think he's truly a Top 5 player, but they could at least have given him some props and at least move him up closer to 5 than 10. Does it really matter? No.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Luka Doncic-he is in a great spot right now...if the Mavs win his legacy goes to another level as he will have taken a #5 seed thru a minefield of quality opponents to win a title...it would be an unbelievable achievement and would probably make him the league's alpha taking over for Jokic...on the flipside if the Mavs lose his legacy really doesn't get dinged as the Mavs aren't supposed to be here and the C's have been the best team in the NBA this year.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The collective sports fans and media have lose their minds to where getting to the finals is a bigger mark against you than losing in the first round. LeBron James dragged a bunch of bozos to the Finals in 2007 and some still count that as a negative against him. If the Mavs lose this series, depending on how everything plays out in the next few years, there will absolutely be some who hold against Doncic.

 

[Anarchy99]

If I am Boston I am attacking Luka as much as possible. He isn't a great defender, he isn't 100 percent and I want to wear him out on defense so he doesn't wear the Celtics in the 4th quarter.

If I'm Boston, my goal is to wear him out. Pick him up full court, switch all the time with fresh legs, and make him work hard for shots. A couple of hard fouls from bench guys once in a while. The Celtics strategy the past two years was to let Luka do a lot of work, take a lot of shots, and get his points . . . but limit everyone else. If he has to take a ton of shots and gets an inefficient 40 points, if they do a good job on everyone else, those points will feel like empty calories. Attack him relentlessly on the defensive end. Get him in foul trouble. Make him skate side to side to have to cover people. If he's gassed by the end of the third, he won't have the energy to take over the 4Q. Boston has the talent on defense to make life more difficult for Luka than it's been so far in the playoffs. It's just a question of mindset and whether the Celtics want to hunker down on defense for 48 minutes. The chances aren't great that they give 100% defensively, but I think they can do that 2/3 of the time and make it hard on Doncic.

 

[Boston]

Luka Doncic-he is in a great spot right now...if the Mavs win his legacy goes to another level as he will have taken a #5 seed thru a minefield of quality opponents to win a title...it would be an unbelievable achievement and would probably make him the league's alpha taking over for Jokic...on the flipside if the Mavs lose his legacy really doesn't get dinged as the Mavs aren't supposed to be here and the C's have been the best team in the NBA this year.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The collective sports fans and media have lose their minds to where getting to the finals is a bigger mark against you than losing in the first round. LeBron James dragged a bunch of bozos to the Finals in 2007 and some still count that as a negative against him. If the Mavs lose this series, depending on how everything plays out in the next few years, there will absolutely be some who hold against Doncic.

Anyone who would ding Luka is a dope…I do agree that to some losing in a finals can take on a bigger meaning than losing in the first round which I find beyond idiotic.

 

[TheAristocrat]

I'm watching the Finals because of the Wolves beating Denver, this thread, and the great title updates. Slightly leaning Mavs over Celtics for no particularly good reasons.

Any draft updates around Bronny Robinowitz? I've heard great things.

 

[General Malaise]

Alright I took Dallas to win the series at +175. Too juicy to pass up.

Also went alt line Mavs -5 +380 for poops and chuckles. I think they catch Boston off guard tonight.

Plus 380 seems like a lot for a minus 5

I mean....Boston is favored by 6 tonight. How much SHOULD I be getting moving the line 11 points against me?

 

[General Malaise]

Alright I took Dallas to win the series at +175. Too juicy to pass up.

Also went alt line Mavs -5 +380 for poops and chuckles. I think they catch Boston off guard tonight.

Plus 380 seems like a lot for a minus 5

I mean....Boston is favored by 6 tonight. How much SHOULD I be getting moving the line 11 points against me?

Correction: 6.5. So I moved the line 11.5.

 

[Mister CIA]

Gawd I can't stand SAS?

 

[msudaisy26]

Alright I took Dallas to win the series at +175. Too juicy to pass up.

Also went alt line Mavs -5 +380 for poops and chuckles. I think they catch Boston off guard tonight.

Plus 380 seems like a lot for a minus 5

I mean....Boston is favored by 6 tonight. How much SHOULD I be getting moving the line 11 points against me?

I am sorry I read that wrong. That makes more sense that it is Dallas giving points.

 

[offdee]

Cus Crise

 

[Mister CIA]

That anthem cover was something else. I'd like it if she were seated next to SAS and every time his mouth opened she would belt out a high note.

 

[Mister CIA]

Pulling for Derrick White to win series MVP.

 

[Major]

About f'n time. Really hope this goes seven as a final game in The Garden with this cast of characters would be epic

 

[identikit]

Celtics 2 for 8 on threes so far

 

[Mister CIA]

About f'n time. Really hope this goes seven as a final game in The Garden with this cast of characters would be epic

Make game seven a 10-cent beer night and put Jake from State Farm courtside in a Mav's jersey.

Hello Cleveland!

 

[msudaisy26]

Cus Crise

Ugh. Worst playoff slogan ever.

 

[msudaisy26]

Celtics 2 for 8 on threes so far

They missed 5 on 1 possession. Lol

 

[ShamrockPride]

KP is making a massive impact on this game, wow.

 

[Major]

KP is making a massive impact on this game, wow.

you're very observant

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Pulling for Derrick White to win series MVP.

Was +3500 on DK I think

 

[Mister CIA]

KP is making a massive impact on this game, wow.

Not bad

 

[ShamrockPride]

KP is making a massive impact on this game, wow.

you're very observant

I try. Didn't think it would be first game off injury, trying to warm him back into playing shape.

 

[dickey moe]

Porzingis looks like he hasn't lost a step.

 

[The General]

What a block.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Celtics 2 for 8 on threes so far

They got better

 

[Mister CIA]

Pulling for Derrick White to win series MVP.

Was +3500 on DK I think

I'll bet it's higher after that KP 1st quarter.

 

[Desert_Power]

Pulling for Derrick White to win series MVP.

Was +3500 on DK I think

Yep. I went with Brown though.

 

[Major]

KP is making a massive impact on this game, wow.

you're very observant

I try. Didn't think it would be first game off injury, trying to warm him back into playing shape.

I was just joking around. He looks incredible and like a real unicorn out there - shooting 3s like Larry and blocking shots like Parrish

 

[brun]

Looked fairly even until KP...

 

[ShamrockPride]

Alright yall, what do we think the lead is at halftime?

5, tied? Classic Celtics ####.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Alright yall, what do we think the lead is at halftime?

5, tied? Classic Celtics ####.

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