Jayrod
Footballguy
I tried to get Cappy to start a new thread but he said you'll have to wait until tomorrow.
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2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
Trust the process and you will be rewarded with a new thread.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Paid not to work. If I could be so lucky.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So Bronny only worked out for the Lakers and Suns apparently.
Deamon
Footballguy
honest question... do you think he's happy about being fired and getting to sit and collect the money?
Or will it more hurt him long term.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
It's a legit question from a reputation standpoint, but with generational wealth and not having to work, I think I'd get over it pretty quickly.
Major
Footballguy
I wish more corporate jobs offered this type of reward for poor performance. Coaching seems like a pretty sweet gig.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
He’s going to parlay it into getting overpaid for the Lakers job then getting fired after a year. Getting paid by two teams to not coach is top notch.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
65 million dollars not to work. Oh please hurt me like that.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
He already got $20 million from the Suns to go away, in addition to the $65 million from the Pistons.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I like the difference in coaching philosophies in Detroit.
Lions: This Campbell guy really wants to coach here. Let's hire him!
Pistons: This Williams guy has zero interest in coaching here. Let's guarantee him so much money that he can't say no!
Lions: This Campbell guy really wants to coach here. Let's hire him!
Pistons: This Williams guy has zero interest in coaching here. Let's guarantee him so much money that he can't say no!
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
Joe Pompliano
@JoePompliano
The Monty Williams timeline...
May 2023: Fired by the Phoenix Suns, securing a $20 million-plus buyout.
June 2023: Hired by the Detroit Pistons, securing a 6-year, $78.5 million deal — the largest coaching contract in NBA history at the time.
June 2024: Fired by the Detroit Pistons after just one season, securing a $65 million-plus buyout.
Crazy!
Not bad for a year's work...
I assume that he didn't get to keep the Suns money once the Pistons hired him. At least I hope not.
If the Suns didn’t have offset language in their agreement with Williams, the team’s attorneys should be fired.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You devalue the win when you do it too often.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Since this is the last day of this version of the NBA thread all hot takes should go here.
Capella
Footballguy
Before somebody reports the thread title, no, I’m not talking about you, but if you think I am, maybe re-evaluate things before the new season lol
Thanks for all the terrible posts this year and for the occasional good one. Love this thread. Does rudnicki still work here?
Thanks for all the terrible posts this year and for the occasional good one. Love this thread. Does rudnicki still work here?
Jayrod
Footballguy
A lot of hard hitting analysis about players with dogs inside of them and superstars meshing and whatnot.
Bunch of people forgot that Boston plays PHONOMENAL defense, has a boatload of playoff experience and were the best team all season. I've never been happier as a sports fan in my entire life. This run was so satisfying, especially after all of the drooling that was being done over ANT and the T-wolves.
identikit
Footballguy
A lot of hard hitting analysis about players with dogs inside of them and superstars meshing and whatnot.
Bunch of people forgot that Boston plays PHONOMENAL defense, has a boatload of playoff experience and were the best team all season. I've never been happier as a sports fan in my entire life. This run was so satisfying, especially after all of the drooling that was being done over ANT and the T-wolves.
A lot of the usual suspects who say dumb things saying dumb things
I'd take Ant over Tatum, btw
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
What if this dude ends up at like 8 feet tall
@ballislife
18-year-old Florida commit Olivier Rioux is now listed at 7’9”
He was 7’5” when we filmed him 2 years ago.
7’6” last year (this video).
7’7” earlier this year.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I don't know if this is a hot take or just a prediction, but I think this Celtic team is going to be the 5th team since 1980 that won't have a future or former league MVP on their roster when they won.
The other 4 teams are the three Pistons titles and most likely the 2019 Raptors.
The other 4 teams are the three Pistons titles and most likely the 2019 Raptors.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I greatly dislike all of you.
See you next thread.
See you next thread.
Deamon
Footballguy
ya this kid is crazy. Canadian too.What if this dude ends up at like 8 feet tall
@ballislife
18-year-old Florida commit Olivier Rioux is now listed at 7’9”
He was 7’5” when we filmed him 2 years ago.
7’6” last year (this video).
7’7” earlier this year.
Actually is fairly athletic for how big he is. Gotta think if he bulks up, no way some NBA team doesn't take a chance on him. Watching his highlights looks like he's playing on an 8 foot rim.
identikit
Footballguy
Dang Canucks popping up everywhere...ya this kid is crazy. Canadian too.What if this dude ends up at like 8 feet tall
@ballislife
18-year-old Florida commit Olivier Rioux is now listed at 7’9”
He was 7’5” when we filmed him 2 years ago.
7’6” last year (this video).
7’7” earlier this year.
Actually is fairly athletic for how big he is. Gotta think if he bulks up, no way some NBA team doesn't take a chance on him. Watching his highlights looks like he's playing on an 8 foot rim.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Interesting thing I heard with regards to the possibility of the Celtics repeating as champs. Every team in the last 40+ years that has repeated has had a player generally considered to be one of the 15 best ever except maybe the Pistons teams that won it in 1989 and 1990 (and Isiah Thomas is probably not that far behind the top 15) -- Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, Steph). Tatum is obviously really, really good, but it's hard to envision him going down as a top 15-20 player all-time, so the Celtics have a chance to repeat despite not having an historically dominant player.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I actually think he could for sure end up as a top 20 guy ever. He's weirdly underrated for a guy who has made 3 consecutive all-NBA first teams, I think just led his team in P/R/A for the entire playoffs, plays good defense, is a 5-time all-star and only 26 years old...
It's some chicken and egg. If you win 4 titles as a best player on a team, you are a top 20 player, right? And as the league history grows and grows that 15 becomes 20 from sheer volume of seasons and teams and winners.
Zow
Footballguy
Hmmm I initially thought you were a touch biased by recent success here* re: Tatum, but as I thought about it your point about him being only 26 with many good years ahead actually does give him a shot. He's got a great running partner and a smart organization so as much as I hate to say it they likely get more titles. He may get there just based on them and longevity of being a top 5 guy.
I think the biggest question is whether we have any top-20 guys now who were never the best player in the league for a given season. My takeaway from that series of polls we did earlier this year is that we truly have some really great top-15ish guys that I think will be really hard for current or upcoming players to great into the top 15. But, yeah, maybe Tatum can if he keeps this up for another 5-7 years then has a few years of being a great veteran guy on a good team or something.
Zow
Footballguy
You've won 18 championships. Can you just let us have one nice thing please?A lot of hard hitting analysis about players with dogs inside of them and superstars meshing and whatnot.
Bunch of people forgot that Boston plays PHONOMENAL defense, has a boatload of playoff experience and were the best team all season. I've never been happier as a sports fan in my entire life. This run was so satisfying, especially after all of the drooling that was being done over ANT and the T-wolves.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Boston's lowest 5-game scoring output across the entire season was in the Finals (30 points lower than any 5-game stretch). Outside of layups, Tatum shot 25% in the Finals. Some of their worst basketball (at least offensively) came against the Mavs, and Boston still won in 5 games.
We only saw a couple of glimpses against Dallas, but there were times throughout the year when Boston looked like the Dream Team from years ago. They had 20 point leads in 50 games this season and never lost more than 2 games in a row. I still think they are a match up problem against every team in the league, but it will be tough to have a full season with only marginal injury issues.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Yeah and, I mean, the history of the NBA suggests that guys this good this young don't just plateau, but that they're best years tend to be 28-29-30-31, so you could argue that if he's gonna win some MVPs, it's the back half of the 202s, not now.
It's never the most likely outcome, but possible? Yeah I think it's possible.
Instinctive
Footballguy
FWIW that all backs up that Dallas did in fact have an outstanding defense.
Zow
Footballguy
True about the real possibility that he gets even better into his late 20s. If he wins an MVP or two and gets another title or two you may be onto something. Obviously those aren't easy tasks but he's really not too far off from where MJ, Lebron, etc. were at this point.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Boston missed a ton of open looks. Their game is drive and kick to wide open spot up threes . . . and they just missed those shots. JT, JB, KP, and Pritchard combined to shoot 23% on 3P. Is that great defense, bad offense, a blend of both, or neither? Tatum, Brown, and White didn't shoot well at all (but the other guys did). I don't think the Mavs defense was great or terrible in the Finals. I'd say it was a little inconsistent and probably middle of the road overall (but not as good as Boston's defense in the series except for the one game in Dallas).
But I would say the same thing about the Boston defense . . . did they cause Luka, Kyrie, Jones, and Washington to shoot 25% or so on 3PA or did DAL have a cold shooting stretch? The Celtics also reduced their pace from 97.2 possessions per game in the regular season to 90.7 possessions per game in the Finals. That's probably the main reason Boston scored less than they normally did. Their offensive rating in their 4 wins was 117.4, 113.3, 117.4, and 122.1 (vs. 123.2 in the regular season). Boston averaged 2.5 fewer 3PM per game in the series . . . which would have put them back to their usual offensive rating.
Insomniac
Footballguy
The only other teams I can think of that didn't have a player who won the MVP are the Sonics and 1975 Warriors. (Maybe Rick Barry should have won, but everyone hated him) OTOH I think this is the first team to win a title with their best player playing in NCAA at Duke.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Jaylen Brown went to Cal.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Boston just has a bunch of good players that aren't all time greats. JT has been on 4 All NBA teams. JB has been on one. Jrue has been on 6 All Defense teams and White 2. Horford was All NBA once and All Defense once. Sometimes Porzingis has played at a level worthy of consideration for those teams, but he hardly ever plays in enough games to get consideration for them (was Top 10 in PER this year, 10th in defensive rating, and 4th in WS/48).
Jayrod
Footballguy
Tatum is probably going to land in the top 25 all time and is a shoe in for top 50 barring serious injury. He will also be a HOFer at this pace. 5 more all-NBA teams, 6-10 more ASGs, another championship and a dark horse MVP possibility are all very reasonable expectations. He's getting into Pippen, Barkley, Rick Barry, Jerry West territory there depending on his longevity.
Brown is a very fringe HOF candidate right now and needs 1-2 more championships, 5+ more ASGs and 3+ all-NBA (or some all-defense) teams to be considered. He'd be in JoJo White or Jamaal Wilkes territory which is enough.
Brown is a very fringe HOF candidate right now and needs 1-2 more championships, 5+ more ASGs and 3+ all-NBA (or some all-defense) teams to be considered. He'd be in JoJo White or Jamaal Wilkes territory which is enough.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We don't know what we don't know.
Through his age 25 season, Tatum has scored 11852 points, averaged 23.1 ppg, been 1st team All-NBA 3 times (3rd team once), has 67 playoff wins, and won a title. Steph through his age 25 season scored 6814 points, averaged 20.3 ppg, made All-NBA second team once, won 9 playoff games, and had not won a title. I know Brown is older than Tatum and Steph is older than Klay, but is JB that much different than Klay at a similar age (who is listed has having a 70% HOF probability at this point)?
I'm not saying the Celtics are going to turn into the Warriors, nor am I suggesting that Tatum will raise his game and win back-to-back MVPs in his next two seasons like Curry did. But it is possible that the Jays keep improving and the Celtics keep winning. But until we get there and see how things actually play out, we could hypothesize just about anything (good or bad) for this Boston bunch. Tatum is more points away from ranking in the all-time Top 25 in scoring than he has scored so far, so really hard to tell where he will end up.
Jayrod
Footballguy
The only reason Klay is even remotely considered for HOF is because of the Warriors championships. Same with Draymond.
identikit
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We're saying the same thing just from different angles. Some players will have great numbers and no rings, other players will have multiple rings and ok numbers (either one will get them HOF consideration). The all-time greats will have both. Wemby or Luka could go on to have some crazy numbers and never win anything and go down as great players. Or they could win 4 rings in 6 years and be considered as Top 10 all-time players. Same thing with the 2024 Celtics. If this is a one off, people will say Boston had an easy path in a year with a ton of injuries. But they could go back-to-back next year going through Giannis, Embiid, and Jokic and suddenly this year's team would be looked at differently and the springboard to a potential start of a Celtics run. To be clear, I am not predicting or projecting anything, only pointing out that the only way to really evaluate this stuff is in the future looking at a rear view mirror.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I am going to be so mad when Jimmy Butler comes back to the Sixers 4 years too late.
Boston
Footballguy
We have been fortunate in Boston to have some of the all-time greats and very goods in every sport and Tatum has to be the most painful player to listen to experts/fans talk about (although early Brady was painful as well)...he can go from over-rated to under-rated (or vice versa) in the course of a week and this yo-yoing never stops except for the people who have dug their heels in and won't change their opinion (good or bad) regardless of what he is doing...he can play a great game but that won't be enough for some because he didn't do it with an F-you scowl or attitude (no city over-rates that more than Boston) so obviously he can't be that good because Jordan and Bird did it that way...ultimately he is not a Jordan or a LeBron...he will not be a Mount Rushmore player and because of that some feel the need to take shots at him because they are grading him against the very best...what he is is one of the best players in the NBA who is able to score, pass, rebound, play defense and is held in high-regard by his teammates whose team has done nothing but win since he has been there and now he is a champion who has an excellent chance to win multiple titles and when his career ends will have extremely high-end individual stats...he will be an easy first-team Hall-of-Famer who's place in NBA history still has at least 10 more years of playing until we really know where he fits...in NBA history I think comparisons to Tatum may end up being John Havilcek (with obviously a lot less titles) on the high-side or Rick Barry (without being a p****) who is kind of a forgotten great due to his personality...will be very interesting to watch the rest of his career (and Brown's) because there is still a lot that can happen that will help or hurt his legacy with the "experts."
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Looking at the past 10 title winning teams, this was their record the season prior to winning:
2023 - BOS 57 wins (then added Holiday and Porzingis)
2022 - DEN 48 wins
2021 - GSW 44 wins* (projected over 82 games) (Klay out all season)
2020 - MIL 63 wins* (projected over 82 games (then added Holiday)
2019 - LAL 37 wins (then added AD)
2018 - TOR 59 wins (then added Kawhi)
2017 - GSW 67 wins
2016 - GSW 73 wins (then added KD)
2015 - CLE 53 wins
2014 - GSW 51 wins
Several of those teams either added big pieces or had a player come back from injury. I think there are a number of teams currently that could make a big leap if they went out and acquired a star player.
2023 - BOS 57 wins (then added Holiday and Porzingis)
2022 - DEN 48 wins
2021 - GSW 44 wins* (projected over 82 games) (Klay out all season)
2020 - MIL 63 wins* (projected over 82 games (then added Holiday)
2019 - LAL 37 wins (then added AD)
2018 - TOR 59 wins (then added Kawhi)
2017 - GSW 67 wins
2016 - GSW 73 wins (then added KD)
2015 - CLE 53 wins
2014 - GSW 51 wins
Several of those teams either added big pieces or had a player come back from injury. I think there are a number of teams currently that could make a big leap if they went out and acquired a star player.
Instinctive
Footballguy
FTFY
trader jake
Footballguy
Your pain may be more about talk radio and the hott take television sock puppets than Tatum, Brady, or any other specific player.
"Remember when" is the lowest form of conversation. With sports, it's legacy / ringszz talk. Okay, it's actually athletes being a brand talk, but legacy / ringszzzz has to be next.
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