2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever (2 Viewers)

[massraider]

Not healthy to plan the season around some kid in college

 

[Chaka]

Not healthy to plan the season around some kid in college

Is it any worse than planning the season around an average QB with a busted foot?

 

[massraider]

Not healthy to plan the season around some kid in college

Is it any worse than planning the season around an average QB with a busted foot?

Significantly

 

[Chaka]

Not healthy to plan the season around some kid in college

Is it any worse than planning the season around an average QB with a busted foot?

Significantly

Minutely at best.

The Raiders QB room screams tank job.

 

[Chadstroma]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

 

[osubuckeyeman]

Aiden O'Connell is a much better QB than people think. He is no slouch. He might look like a '70s porn star, but he has a quick and accurate release of the football. He can already throw in tight windows. He might not be mobile but he slides around the pocket well enough. More importantly, he fits Josh's offense. The con I hear the most is interceptions, but he was not working with the best talent around him. I would much rather see O'Connell than Brian Hoyer. I think had they thought Jimmy G was not ready, they would have brought someone else in by now.

 

[Chaka]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Because they would win more games by accident with Carr?

In seriousness I think you need to get over them parting with Carr. From the beginning was unlikely Carr & McDaniels would have worked out. After the way last year played out that fence wasn't going to be mended.

It's time to accept it and move on.

 

[Chaka]

Aiden O'Connell is a much better QB than people think. He is no slouch. He might look like a '70s porn star, but he has a quick and accurate release of the football. He can already throw in tight windows. He might not be mobile but he slides around the pocket well enough. More importantly, he fits Josh's offense. The con I hear the most is interceptions, but he was not working with the best talent around him. I would much rather see O'Connell than Brian Hoyer. I think had they thought Jimmy G was not ready, they would have brought someone else in by now.

I never watched him in college but I like everything I have read about him. For me the mobility is less of a concern then the his ability to read defenses, make decisions, the speed of his release and his arm strength.

I honestly have no idea how he measures up in those aspects. But his college stats give reason for optimism.

If he is a big effort, film study kinda guy I am hopeful he can maybe, possibly turn into a an NFL QB.

 

[massraider]

Minutely at best.

The Raiders QB room screams tank job.

If this kid is the next Big Thing, we would need to be the worst team to get him.

If we are not, other teams can make better deals, for example the Cardinals. Can you imagine owning the Cardinals and the Texans pick next year? Can you imagine trying to make a trade offer to someone who has the #1 pick, and we are competing with the Cards/Texans picks?

Maxx Crosby and 4 first rounders. Maybe.

no thanks

 

[Chaka]

Minutely at best.

The Raiders QB room screams tank job.

If this kid is the next Big Thing, we would need to be the worst team to get him.

If we are not, other teams can make better deals, for example the Cardinals. Can you imagine owning the Cardinals and the Texans pick next year? Can you imagine trying to make a trade offer to someone who has the #1 pick, and we are competing with the Cards/Texans picks?

Maxx Crosby and 4 first rounders. Maybe.

no thanks

Seems steep. I anticipate the Cards will be the team people will be trading with to get the #1 pick.

I'm not being serious with the notion the Raiders are tanking. Even if I personally would be absolutely okay with it I would love that see Caleb in Silver & Black next year. I just don't think the Raiders are competitive in this division over the next decade without a top QB.

 

[Chadstroma]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Because they would win more games by accident with Carr?

In seriousness I think you need to get over them parting with Carr. From the beginning was unlikely Carr & McDaniels would have worked out. After the way last year played out that fence wasn't going to be mended.

It's time to accept it and move on.

What does my question have to do with being over Carr or not?

You are stating you think that they made all these moves with the intent to get a better draft position to get a rookie QB next year. I don't think that is the case. One of the reasons I don't is that if they thought that they could not win with Carr... why get rid of him for Jimmy G? The answer is that there is no logical reason. Further, if they really wanted to go with a QB that they thought would sink them there are better choices for that than Jimmy G. And then, of course, there is that you really think that after his first disaster as HC and then last year's season with his second chance that McD wants to tank the team? Sorry- I think that that is a stretch. I am not sure how that equates to me not being over Carr.

 

[Chaka]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Because they would win more games by accident with Carr?

In seriousness I think you need to get over them parting with Carr. From the beginning was unlikely Carr & McDaniels would have worked out. After the way last year played out that fence wasn't going to be mended.

It's time to accept it and move on.

What does my question have to do with being over Carr or not?

You are stating you think that they made all these moves with the intent to get a better draft position to get a rookie QB next year. I don't think that is the case. One of the reasons I don't is that if they thought that they could not win with Carr... why get rid of him for Jimmy G? The answer is that there is no logical reason. Further, if they really wanted to go with a QB that they thought would sink them there are better choices for that than Jimmy G. And then, of course, there is that you really think that after his first disaster as HC and then last year's season with his second chance that McD wants to tank the team? Sorry- I think that that is a stretch. I am not sure how that equates to me not being over Carr.

Sorry man, I don't honestly think they're tanking.

I kinda wish they would l, but I don't think they are.

Just bored during the slow season.

 

[massraider]

Minutely at best.

The Raiders QB room screams tank job.

If this kid is the next Big Thing, we would need to be the worst team to get him.

If we are not, other teams can make better deals, for example the Cardinals. Can you imagine owning the Cardinals and the Texans pick next year? Can you imagine trying to make a trade offer to someone who has the #1 pick, and we are competing with the Cards/Texans picks?

Maxx Crosby and 4 first rounders. Maybe.

no thanks

Seems steep. I anticipate the Cards will be the team people will be trading with to get the #1 pick.

I'm not being serious with the notion the Raiders are tanking. Even if I personally would be absolutely okay with it I would love that see Caleb in Silver & Black next year. I just don't think the Raiders are competitive in this division over the next decade without a top QB.

Then we don't disagree. There's a contingent who believes we should throw the season to get this guy. This is not realistic, or advisable.

If we have 3 wins in November, fine. Let's Suck for Luck!!! The last can't miss QB that didn't win ****.

But if we can get to the playoffs, we should

 

[Chaka]

Minutely at best.

The Raiders QB room screams tank job.

If this kid is the next Big Thing, we would need to be the worst team to get him.

If we are not, other teams can make better deals, for example the Cardinals. Can you imagine owning the Cardinals and the Texans pick next year? Can you imagine trying to make a trade offer to someone who has the #1 pick, and we are competing with the Cards/Texans picks?

Maxx Crosby and 4 first rounders. Maybe.

no thanks

Seems steep. I anticipate the Cards will be the team people will be trading with to get the #1 pick.

I'm not being serious with the notion the Raiders are tanking. Even if I personally would be absolutely okay with it I would love that see Caleb in Silver & Black next year. I just don't think the Raiders are competitive in this division over the next decade without a top QB.

Then we don't disagree. There's a contingent who believes we should throw the season to get this guy. This is not realistic, or advisable.

If we have 3 wins in November, fine. Let's Suck for Luck!!! The last can't miss QB that didn't win ****.

But if we can get to the playoffs, we should

Come on now, Luck took the Colts to the playoffs in 4 of 5 healthy seasons, winning at least one playoff game in 3 of 4 years including getting to the AFC title game.

As long as he was on the field they were legit competitive.

The Athletic did a six part podcast on Luck. As with most things Athletic it is excellent and very much worth it for any football fan.

Building a team good enough that a "rent-a-diva-QB" strategy could put them over the top can work. Brady & Stafford paid off and I would be happy if the Raiders could do that and win a Super Bowl.

But I would far prefer going after a young, hopefully, stud QB and be competitive for a decade.

 

[massraider]

But I would far prefer going after a young, hopefully, stud QB and be competitive for a decade.

I look at draft history, and it looks to me like franchise QBs keep slipping past the top 5-10.

So i don't see why anyone needs to sell out for any QB.

We would all take Mahomes, Hurts, Lamar, Herbert. None of them the next big thing.

 

[Chaka]

But I would far prefer going after a young, hopefully, stud QB and be competitive for a decade.

I look at draft history, and it looks to me like franchise QBs keep slipping past the top 5-10.

So i don't see why anyone needs to sell out for any QB.

We would all take Mahomes, Hurts, Lamar, Herbert, O'Connell. None of them the next big thing.

FYP

 

[Chaka]

It's a good point that they don't need to be at #1 overall to get a franchise QB. And as desperate as I am to have one, and believe they need to swing big at every opportunity to get one, I have to admit I was glad they didn't take Levis at #7.

In retrospect I may need to rethink that. After all the Broncos got two firsts, a third and Kyle Orton for Jay Cutler.

 

[massraider]

I want to see this organization hit some picks, have a bunch of these young dudes pay off, and show me this is a staff I want a franchise QB to go to. If at the end of the year, this team is well coached, and players are developing, that's a big win to me.

 

[RaiderBones]

Minutely at best.

The Raiders QB room screams tank job.

If this kid is the next Big Thing, we would need to be the worst team to get him.

If we are not, other teams can make better deals, for example the Cardinals. Can you imagine owning the Cardinals and the Texans pick next year? Can you imagine trying to make a trade offer to someone who has the #1 pick, and we are competing with the Cards/Texans picks?

Maxx Crosby and 4 first rounders. Maybe.

no thanks

Seems steep. I anticipate the Cards will be the team people will be trading with to get the #1 pick.

I'm not being serious with the notion the Raiders are tanking. Even if I personally would be absolutely okay with it I would love that see Caleb in Silver & Black next year. I just don't think the Raiders are competitive in this division over the next decade without a top QB.

I'm not so sure the Cards won't draft Williams and move on from Murray.

 

[Chaka]

Minutely at best.

The Raiders QB room screams tank job.

If this kid is the next Big Thing, we would need to be the worst team to get him.

If we are not, other teams can make better deals, for example the Cardinals. Can you imagine owning the Cardinals and the Texans pick next year? Can you imagine trying to make a trade offer to someone who has the #1 pick, and we are competing with the Cards/Texans picks?

Maxx Crosby and 4 first rounders. Maybe.

no thanks

Seems steep. I anticipate the Cards will be the team people will be trading with to get the #1 pick.

I'm not being serious with the notion the Raiders are tanking. Even if I personally would be absolutely okay with it I would love that see Caleb in Silver & Black next year. I just don't think the Raiders are competitive in this division over the next decade without a top QB.

I'm not so sure the Cards won't draft Williams and move on from Murray.

I agree.

 

[Chaka]

I want to see this organization hit some picks, have a bunch of these young dudes pay off, and show me this is a staff I want a franchise QB to go to. If at the end of the year, this team is well coached, and players are developing, that's a big win to me.

Draft picks don't get to decide if they want to g somewhere.

So, omitting the draft where their choice is meaningless, my old man memory is probably missing the obvious but when was the last time a franchise QB, in their prime, even had the option to choose their destination?

I guess you're could say Brady, and he had tread on the tires but he was a rent-a-diva-QB, not a decade long option.

I would have been thrilled if the Raiders gave up two firsts for Lamar, cheaper, in draft capital, than trading up to #1 and you get a proven commodity.

 

[LawFitz]

So McD is playing 4D chess now? Yeah right.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

jimmy g will start the season under center. Jacobs will sign. They’ll win 7-9 games. . Hopefully some of these draft pics hit.

 

[Chadstroma]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

Once they benched him at the end of the season, they shot themselves in the foot in being able to get value for him without the absolute knowledge that he would be cut if there was no trade made then yes, the no trade clause made it unlikely to get a deal done. Then again, they were somewhat close to having a deal done with the Saints even with them putting themselves in a poor negotiating position. Carr at first seemed to be willing to waive it as well. Then they again insulted him by not allowing him to talk to teams and finally I think the realization that there was no reason to take anything away from your new team so your old team could get something out of it.

If they played him through then they could have gone into the off season and attempted a trade. Sure, it is possible that they could have ended up cutting him again but it is undeniable that they would have been in a much better position to get value for him if they did not bench him at the end of the season.

There are those who believe that Brady was the plan all along until Brady was done. I lean towards them not really having a plan at all. Which I think is actually worse.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

Once they benched him at the end of the season, they shot themselves in the foot in being able to get value for him without the absolute knowledge that he would be cut if there was no trade made then yes, the no trade clause made it unlikely to get a deal done. Then again, they were somewhat close to having a deal done with the Saints even with them putting themselves in a poor negotiating position. Carr at first seemed to be willing to waive it as well. Then they again insulted him by not allowing him to talk to teams and finally I think the realization that there was no reason to take anything away from your new team so your old team could get something out of it.

If they played him through then they could have gone into the off season and attempted a trade. Sure, it is possible that they could have ended up cutting him again but it is undeniable that they would have been in a much better position to get value for him if they did not bench him at the end of the season.

There are those who believe that Brady was the plan all along until Brady was done. I lean towards them not really having a plan at all. Which I think is actually worse.

Carr is not the saint you think he is.

he and his agent put that clause in on purpose. It was good business. And I’ll remind you, for the nth time, we fans thought the escape clause was smart for the raiders. the deal was lauded as team friendly. Kumbaya for everyone. But when it comes down to it, it’s a business. In separating from carr the team saved millions and will probably end up with same results.

Just like the current Jacobs situation. Both sides are being smart and looking out for their interests. History tells us that Jacob’s will blink first.

 

[Chadstroma]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

Once they benched him at the end of the season, they shot themselves in the foot in being able to get value for him without the absolute knowledge that he would be cut if there was no trade made then yes, the no trade clause made it unlikely to get a deal done. Then again, they were somewhat close to having a deal done with the Saints even with them putting themselves in a poor negotiating position. Carr at first seemed to be willing to waive it as well. Then they again insulted him by not allowing him to talk to teams and finally I think the realization that there was no reason to take anything away from your new team so your old team could get something out of it.

If they played him through then they could have gone into the off season and attempted a trade. Sure, it is possible that they could have ended up cutting him again but it is undeniable that they would have been in a much better position to get value for him if they did not bench him at the end of the season.

There are those who believe that Brady was the plan all along until Brady was done. I lean towards them not really having a plan at all. Which I think is actually worse.

Carr is not the saint you think he is.

he and his agent put that clause in on purpose. It was good business. And I’ll remind you, for the nth time, we fans thought the escape clause was smart for the raiders. the deal was lauded as team friendly. Kumbaya for everyone. But when it comes down to it, it’s a business. In separating from carr the team saved millions and will probably end up with same results.

Just like the current Jacobs situation. Both sides are being smart and looking out for their interests. History tells us that Jacob’s will blink first.

Wait... you are going to tell me we were smart in how we handled Carr?

It is about me liking Carr. It is simply that we screwed up how we handled him to walk away with nothing for it. That is something that both a Carr hater (you) and Carr homer (me) can agree on because it is not about Carr. It is abouy how McD and Z handled it which together was pretty close being the worst way possible. Or put in another way, the best way possible to ensure that we would be unable to trade him.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

Once they benched him at the end of the season, they shot themselves in the foot in being able to get value for him without the absolute knowledge that he would be cut if there was no trade made then yes, the no trade clause made it unlikely to get a deal done. Then again, they were somewhat close to having a deal done with the Saints even with them putting themselves in a poor negotiating position. Carr at first seemed to be willing to waive it as well. Then they again insulted him by not allowing him to talk to teams and finally I think the realization that there was no reason to take anything away from your new team so your old team could get something out of it.

If they played him through then they could have gone into the off season and attempted a trade. Sure, it is possible that they could have ended up cutting him again but it is undeniable that they would have been in a much better position to get value for him if they did not bench him at the end of the season.

There are those who believe that Brady was the plan all along until Brady was done. I lean towards them not really having a plan at all. Which I think is actually worse.

Carr is not the saint you think he is.

he and his agent put that clause in on purpose. It was good business. And I’ll remind you, for the nth time, we fans thought the escape clause was smart for the raiders. the deal was lauded as team friendly. Kumbaya for everyone. But when it comes down to it, it’s a business. In separating from carr the team saved millions and will probably end up with same results.

Just like the current Jacobs situation. Both sides are being smart and looking out for their interests. History tells us that Jacob’s will blink first.

Wait... you are going to tell me we were smart in how we handled Carr?

It is about me liking Carr. It is simply that we screwed up how we handled him to walk away with nothing for it. That is something that both a Carr hater (you) and Carr homer (me) can agree on because it is not about Carr. It is abouy how McD and Z handled it which together was pretty close being the worst way possible. Or put in another way, the best way possible to ensure that we would be unable to trade him.

it wasn't smart. It was business. Both sides built the contract to protect themselves. Carr had an out. So did the raiders. Carr was middle of the road carr. McZ didn’t like carr on the field. They parted ways. Could the raiders have possibly traded carr if they didn’t bench him? Maybe. But I doubt it. Both sides were pretty sour on each other By that time.

 

[Chadstroma]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

Once they benched him at the end of the season, they shot themselves in the foot in being able to get value for him without the absolute knowledge that he would be cut if there was no trade made then yes, the no trade clause made it unlikely to get a deal done. Then again, they were somewhat close to having a deal done with the Saints even with them putting themselves in a poor negotiating position. Carr at first seemed to be willing to waive it as well. Then they again insulted him by not allowing him to talk to teams and finally I think the realization that there was no reason to take anything away from your new team so your old team could get something out of it.

If they played him through then they could have gone into the off season and attempted a trade. Sure, it is possible that they could have ended up cutting him again but it is undeniable that they would have been in a much better position to get value for him if they did not bench him at the end of the season.

There are those who believe that Brady was the plan all along until Brady was done. I lean towards them not really having a plan at all. Which I think is actually worse.

Carr is not the saint you think he is.

he and his agent put that clause in on purpose. It was good business. And I’ll remind you, for the nth time, we fans thought the escape clause was smart for the raiders. the deal was lauded as team friendly. Kumbaya for everyone. But when it comes down to it, it’s a business. In separating from carr the team saved millions and will probably end up with same results.

Just like the current Jacobs situation. Both sides are being smart and looking out for their interests. History tells us that Jacob’s will blink first.

Wait... you are going to tell me we were smart in how we handled Carr?

It is about me liking Carr. It is simply that we screwed up how we handled him to walk away with nothing for it. That is something that both a Carr hater (you) and Carr homer (me) can agree on because it is not about Carr. It is abouy how McD and Z handled it which together was pretty close being the worst way possible. Or put in another way, the best way possible to ensure that we would be unable to trade him.

it wasn't smart. It was business. Both sides built the contract to protect themselves. Carr had an out. So did the raiders. Carr was middle of the road carr. McZ didn’t like carr on the field. They parted ways. Could the raiders have possibly traded carr if they didn’t bench him? Maybe. But I doubt it. Both sides were pretty sour on each other By that time.

The contract was the contract but how you go about it after is the mistake. Just once again, instead of being smart we did what we did. If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching him and then making the situation worse by not letting him talk to teams.... the chances for getting something would have been MUCH better than what we did which would have taken a miracle to get a ham sammy out of it.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

Once they benched him at the end of the season, they shot themselves in the foot in being able to get value for him without the absolute knowledge that he would be cut if there was no trade made then yes, the no trade clause made it unlikely to get a deal done. Then again, they were somewhat close to having a deal done with the Saints even with them putting themselves in a poor negotiating position. Carr at first seemed to be willing to waive it as well. Then they again insulted him by not allowing him to talk to teams and finally I think the realization that there was no reason to take anything away from your new team so your old team could get something out of it.

If they played him through then they could have gone into the off season and attempted a trade. Sure, it is possible that they could have ended up cutting him again but it is undeniable that they would have been in a much better position to get value for him if they did not bench him at the end of the season.

There are those who believe that Brady was the plan all along until Brady was done. I lean towards them not really having a plan at all. Which I think is actually worse.

Carr is not the saint you think he is.

he and his agent put that clause in on purpose. It was good business. And I’ll remind you, for the nth time, we fans thought the escape clause was smart for the raiders. the deal was lauded as team friendly. Kumbaya for everyone. But when it comes down to it, it’s a business. In separating from carr the team saved millions and will probably end up with same results.

Just like the current Jacobs situation. Both sides are being smart and looking out for their interests. History tells us that Jacob’s will blink first.

Wait... you are going to tell me we were smart in how we handled Carr?

It is about me liking Carr. It is simply that we screwed up how we handled him to walk away with nothing for it. That is something that both a Carr hater (you) and Carr homer (me) can agree on because it is not about Carr. It is abouy how McD and Z handled it which together was pretty close being the worst way possible. Or put in another way, the best way possible to ensure that we would be unable to trade him.

it wasn't smart. It was business. Both sides built the contract to protect themselves. Carr had an out. So did the raiders. Carr was middle of the road carr. McZ didn’t like carr on the field. They parted ways. Could the raiders have possibly traded carr if they didn’t bench him? Maybe. But I doubt it. Both sides were pretty sour on each other By that time.

The contract was the contract but how you go about it after is the mistake. Just once again, instead of being smart we did what we did. If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching him and then making the situation worse by not letting him talk to teams.... the chances for getting something would have been MUCH better than what we did which would have taken a miracle to get a ham sammy out of it.

We see it differently

 

[Chaka]

Wait... you are going to tell me we were smart in how we handled Carr?

IDK if it was smart but the staff did Carr a solid by benching him. They decided to move on from him and removed his injury risk.

One way to view it is that it was an olive branch to Carr in the hope he would waive the no trade clause.

And, let's be perfectly honest, and you know I am a Carr fan, but it was always highly unlikely that Carr would waive the no-trade clause. Even if it was all ice cream and puppy dogs between him and McDaniels. Why would he? There isn't a single logical reason for him to do that. He might be an awesome, high character guy but he's not stupid.

As soon as the team granted the clause, another solid they did for him btw, they gave up their leverage and, in so doing told Carr that he was their guy. But as much as the McDaniels is not a good coach narrative can be driven home there is also the narrative that Carr couldn't handle the heat of a hard a## approach to coaching him up. Personally, I want a QB who can handle that kind of heat.

That doesn't make McDaniels bad coach or the no trade a bad decision. The team gambled on Carr and it didn't work. I'm glad they took the shot because there weren't any better options available.

 

[Chaka]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Wait... you are going to tell me we were smart in how we handled Carr?

IDK if it was smart but the staff did Carr a solid by benching him. They decided to move on from him and removed his injury risk.

One way to view it is that it was an olive branch to Carr in the hope he would waive the no trade clause.

And, let's be perfectly honest, and you know I am a Carr fan, but it was always highly unlikely that Carr would waive the no-trade clause. Even if it was all ice cream and puppy dogs between him and McDaniels. Why would he? There isn't a single logical reason for him to do that. He might be an awesome, high character guy but he's not stupid.

As soon as the team granted the clause, another solid they did for him btw, they gave up their leverage and, in so doing told Carr that he was their guy. But as much as the McDaniels is not a good coach narrative can be driven home there is also the narrative that Carr couldn't handle the heat of a hard a## approach to coaching him up. Personally, I want a QB who can handle that kind of heat.

That doesn't make McDaniels bad coach or the no trade a bad decision. The team gambled on Carr and it didn't work. I'm glad they took the shot because there weren't any better options available.

Spot on.

And if Carr had gotten hurt in those last 2 games. the raiders would have been on the hook for the remainder of his contract and he still would have had the no trade clause.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

They essentially franchise tagged him for a year and walked away. The raiders wanted to be able to cut bait with him if it wasn’t working. It wasn’t.

 

[Chadstroma]

If they didn't think Carr was the QB to win with.... why eject him now? They could have kept him and "tanked" and then go for the rookie QB and then trade Carr away for value.

Carr always had a no trade clause. These scenarios are ridiculous. May as well start talking about Brady being the savior and that was the plan all along.

Once they benched him at the end of the season, they shot themselves in the foot in being able to get value for him without the absolute knowledge that he would be cut if there was no trade made then yes, the no trade clause made it unlikely to get a deal done. Then again, they were somewhat close to having a deal done with the Saints even with them putting themselves in a poor negotiating position. Carr at first seemed to be willing to waive it as well. Then they again insulted him by not allowing him to talk to teams and finally I think the realization that there was no reason to take anything away from your new team so your old team could get something out of it.

If they played him through then they could have gone into the off season and attempted a trade. Sure, it is possible that they could have ended up cutting him again but it is undeniable that they would have been in a much better position to get value for him if they did not bench him at the end of the season.

There are those who believe that Brady was the plan all along until Brady was done. I lean towards them not really having a plan at all. Which I think is actually worse.

Carr is not the saint you think he is.

he and his agent put that clause in on purpose. It was good business. And I’ll remind you, for the nth time, we fans thought the escape clause was smart for the raiders. the deal was lauded as team friendly. Kumbaya for everyone. But when it comes down to it, it’s a business. In separating from carr the team saved millions and will probably end up with same results.

Just like the current Jacobs situation. Both sides are being smart and looking out for their interests. History tells us that Jacob’s will blink first.

Wait... you are going to tell me we were smart in how we handled Carr?

It is about me liking Carr. It is simply that we screwed up how we handled him to walk away with nothing for it. That is something that both a Carr hater (you) and Carr homer (me) can agree on because it is not about Carr. It is abouy how McD and Z handled it which together was pretty close being the worst way possible. Or put in another way, the best way possible to ensure that we would be unable to trade him.

it wasn't smart. It was business. Both sides built the contract to protect themselves. Carr had an out. So did the raiders. Carr was middle of the road carr. McZ didn’t like carr on the field. They parted ways. Could the raiders have possibly traded carr if they didn’t bench him? Maybe. But I doubt it. Both sides were pretty sour on each other By that time.

The contract was the contract but how you go about it after is the mistake. Just once again, instead of being smart we did what we did. If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching him and then making the situation worse by not letting him talk to teams.... the chances for getting something would have been MUCH better than what we did which would have taken a miracle to get a ham sammy out of it.

We see it differently

Shocking revelation

 

[Chadstroma]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

 

[Chaka]

...then making the situation worse by not letting him talk to teams....

Gotta agree. That was a mind boggling decision.

 

[Chadstroma]

...then making the situation worse by not letting him talk to teams....

Gotta agree. That was a mind boggling decision.

I mean... because he might agree to a FA deal with them.... Wha?! Your only chance was for him to agree to a deal that he wanted and you KNEW you were going to cut him otherwise. For being in Vegas they have the worst poker faces in the league.

 

[Chaka]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

Why? Honest question: why would Carr do anything different than what he did with New Orleans?

The microsecond they inked the NTC the Raiders had no ability to gain leverage, no matter how they handled it. And they did Carr quite a few solids.

Judging by the limited information we have the problem between Carr & McDaniels had far more to do with the way McDaniels coaches QBs and/or Carr's tolerance for different coaching styles.

Carr wasn't benched with two games left on a whim. #### went sideways between the two so the Raiders decided to move on.

I see very few scenarios, none that I can think of, where Carr waives the no trade.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

Why? Honest question: why would Carr do anything different than what he did with New Orleans?

The microsecond they inked the NTC the Raiders had no ability to gain leverage, no matter how they handled it. And they did Carr quite a few solids.

Judging by the limited information we have the problem between Carr & McDaniels had far more to do with the way McDaniels coaches QBs and/or Carr's tolerance for different coaching styles.

Carr wasn't benched with two games left on a whim. #### went sideways between the two so the Raiders decided to move on.

I see very few scenarios, none that I can think of, where Carr waives the no trade.

spot on again. chad seems to think they could have gotten two 1sts for him if they let him play out the season.

 

[Chaka]

...then making the situation worse by not letting him talk to teams....

Gotta agree. That was a mind boggling decision.

I mean... because he might agree to a FA deal with them.... Wha?! Your only chance was for him to agree to a deal that he wanted and you KNEW you were going to cut him otherwise. For being in Vegas they have the worst poker faces in the league.

Again, let's be honest he was almost assuredly not going to simply gift the Raiders draft picks.

He called their bluff, and he likely knew they were bluffing before he was benched.

 

[Chaka]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

Why? Honest question: why would Carr do anything different than what he did with New Orleans?

The microsecond they inked the NTC the Raiders had no ability to gain leverage, no matter how they handled it. And they did Carr quite a few solids.

Judging by the limited information we have the problem between Carr & McDaniels had far more to do with the way McDaniels coaches QBs and/or Carr's tolerance for different coaching styles.

Carr wasn't benched with two games left on a whim. #### went sideways between the two so the Raiders decided to move on.

I see very few scenarios, none that I can think of, where Carr waives the no trade.

spot on again. chad seems to think they could have gotten two 1sts for him if they let him play out the season.

They could have gotten RoI on Carr but it would have required them letting his 2023 contract vest.

That was their only shot at any kind of leverage. I was screaming for them to do that, it was a risk but it was the only opportunity for them to get Carr to blink.

Nothing that happened between inking the NTC and then was relevant to leverage.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

Why? Honest question: why would Carr do anything different than what he did with New Orleans?

The microsecond they inked the NTC the Raiders had no ability to gain leverage, no matter how they handled it. And they did Carr quite a few solids.

Judging by the limited information we have the problem between Carr & McDaniels had far more to do with the way McDaniels coaches QBs and/or Carr's tolerance for different coaching styles.

Carr wasn't benched with two games left on a whim. #### went sideways between the two so the Raiders decided to move on.

I see very few scenarios, none that I can think of, where Carr waives the no trade.

spot on again. chad seems to think they could have gotten two 1sts for him if they let him play out the season.

They could have gotten RoI on Carr but it would have required them letting his 2023 contract vest.

That was their only shot at any kind of leverage. I was screaming for them to do that, it was a risk but it was the only opportunity for them to get Carr to blink.

Nothing that happened between inking the NTC and then was relevant to leverage.

Same. I was calling for them to do the same thing. But they never would have gotten anything serious for him.

 

[Chaka]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

Why? Honest question: why would Carr do anything different than what he did with New Orleans?

The microsecond they inked the NTC the Raiders had no ability to gain leverage, no matter how they handled it. And they did Carr quite a few solids.

Judging by the limited information we have the problem between Carr & McDaniels had far more to do with the way McDaniels coaches QBs and/or Carr's tolerance for different coaching styles.

Carr wasn't benched with two games left on a whim. #### went sideways between the two so the Raiders decided to move on.

I see very few scenarios, none that I can think of, where Carr waives the no trade.

spot on again. chad seems to think they could have gotten two 1sts for him if they let him play out the season.

They could have gotten RoI on Carr but it would have required them letting his 2023 contract vest.

That was their only shot at any kind of leverage. I was screaming for them to do that, it was a risk but it was the only opportunity for them to get Carr to blink.

Nothing that happened between inking the NTC and then was relevant to leverage.

Same. I was calling for them to do the same thing. But they never would have gotten anything serious for him.

Better than a sharp stick in the eye.

And if they had his contract locked and Carr wanted out I think they could have gotten a 2nd +...

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

Why? Honest question: why would Carr do anything different than what he did with New Orleans?

The microsecond they inked the NTC the Raiders had no ability to gain leverage, no matter how they handled it. And they did Carr quite a few solids.

Judging by the limited information we have the problem between Carr & McDaniels had far more to do with the way McDaniels coaches QBs and/or Carr's tolerance for different coaching styles.

Carr wasn't benched with two games left on a whim. #### went sideways between the two so the Raiders decided to move on.

I see very few scenarios, none that I can think of, where Carr waives the no trade.

spot on again. chad seems to think they could have gotten two 1sts for him if they let him play out the season.

They could have gotten RoI on Carr but it would have required them letting his 2023 contract vest.

That was their only shot at any kind of leverage. I was screaming for them to do that, it was a risk but it was the only opportunity for them to get Carr to blink.

Nothing that happened between inking the NTC and then was relevant to leverage.

Same. I was calling for them to do the same thing. But they never would have gotten anything serious for him.

Better than a sharp stick in the eye.

And if they had his contract locked and Carr wanted out I think they could have gotten a 2nd +...

a 4 and a 7th

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Still better than a sharp stick in the ole eye ball.

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

I'd rather draft the next great DT in next year's draft than a qb tbh

 

[ICON211]

The Raiders would have gained absolutely nothing by playing him the last two weeks. The no trade clause wasn't going away and it made no sense for him to waive it.

On the other hand, if they played him and he got hurt now his contract is guaranteed, he counts against the 2023 cap and his trade value is nothing. There was nothing but downside to playing him the last two weeks.

The only way he gets traded is if they don't waive him and guarantee the contract. They could have then told him he was not going to be the QB in 2023 and he would have then been a lot more likely to waive the no trade clause cause it would have been either waive the no trade clause or risk not playing football.

 

[RaiderBones]

If the organization did not give away all of it's leverage by benching

They gave up the every gram of leverage when they gave him the NTC.

Perception is reality.

They showed the reality was they were going to cut him if they couldn't trade him- at that point, a trade was extremely unlikely. How they handled it all but ensured no value in return.

If they played it differently, there was a significantly higher chance that they would have been able to make a deal with another team that Carr wanted to go do and make deal that he waived. Guaranteed? Nope. The NTC put them in a bad position, for sure, 100% agree.

It would be nice to see us make some moves that actually were smart and for us to not to suck every year.

I think you are overestimating the market for Carr, IMO. I don't think teams were lining up for him. Matter of fact I think Saints was about it. Colts didn't want him they went old vet route before and wanted a young QB to develop, Panthers traded up to get their young QB of the future and the Jets wanted Rodgers. The only other team was possibly the Bucs but when Carr was released he signed real quick with the Saints so the Bucs couldn't have showed much interest.

 

[Bruno2]

I can’t believe we’re still talking about this guy. It’s like the Raiders fan base is going through a bad break up and can’t get over it. It was an ok nine years, not everything was Carr’s fault, but he could have played better at times. It is what it is. I wish him luck in New Orleans, but I’m done talking about him. I’ve packed away his jersey in the same bin the Amari Cooper and Mack’s jerseys are stowed away.