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2023 NY Giants - (Schoen & Daboll episode 2 – Danny turns Dimes into Dollars) (1 Viewer)

Simmons had a decent year according to the PFF grades ... He was considered a hybrid Linebacker/Saftey (Jack of all trades) coming out out of the draft and a pro bowl talent
He had a 99 Athletic score #1 of all LBs in the 202 Draft.
I love this ... feel like there has to be something more to it than a 7th rd draft pick ... it doesnt make sense

Despite his listed position, Simmons mostly played in the secondary in 2022he played slot cornerback on 409 snaps, wide cornerback on 28 snaps and free safety on 53 snaps,
 
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Simmons had a decent year according to the PFF grades ... He was considered a hybrid Linebacker/Saftey (Jack of all trades) coming out out of the draft and a pro bowl talent
He had a 99 Athletic score #1 of all LBs in the 202 Draft.
I love this ... feel like there has to be something more to it than a 7th rd draft pick ... it doesnt make sense

Despite his listed position, Simmons mostly played in the secondary in 2022he played slot cornerback on 409 snaps, wide cornerback on 28 snaps and free safety on 53 snaps,

I read he's more safety than LB. This pretty much confirms that.
 
He does seem like a good fit, but it's also his contract year so the Giants should be getting the best he has to offer, whatever that is at this point.
 
Really odd trade but looking around at NFL Reddit he seemed to turn into a "jack of no trades-master of none". A who was position-less turned into a guy who wasn't really elite/good at any, hence the 7th round pick. You'd think if anyone could find a slot for him it's Wink, but some of the reviews were worrisome. First of all, he told the Cardinals he didn't want to play LB and then got traded ... to a team where he'll play mostly LB. Also his effort has come into question a few times over the past year, although that might be more because he felt he was playing "out of position".

For a guy of his abilities... he has a lot of lows where it's like "WTF is he doing"? He seems to have poor instincts in coverage where it takes him awhile to process. He seemed to get beat way too many times in situations where if he gave more effort he would have been successful.
 
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The Negativeman has spoken.
if you want to find out why a first round pick was traded away for 7th within a year, you have to watch tape and look at reports. We can't all be willfully oblivious to these things.

Can he find life in a new system? Sure, I CLEARLY stated as such in the last post. Hell, longtime Giants fans can recall similar things in the 90s/00s with the Giants with Lavarr Arrington and Kerry Collins (to name a few success stories); I can go on. But you have to be able to identify/evaluate the bad things and the good, you can't just look at the good otherwise you end up drafting "the JPP of tight ends"...
 
The Negativeman has spoken.
That reminds me. Where is Monk?
Big difference, Monk was always right if you go back and check his posts ...
The Frankman is always wrong particularly in his QB evaluation. in 2018 he had to have Darnold or Rosen, In 2019 Giants were insane to pass up Haskins (God rest his sole) Daniel Jones could win a Super Bowl and The Giants still would have been better without him. Meanwhile he wanted to give a RB Barkley a $50 million contract
 
The Athletic: How Giants will use Isaiah Simmons, Daniel Jones’ biggest improvement and more

The Giants officially ended training camp on Thursday. They’ll rest most of their starters during Saturday’s preseason finale against the Jets and then cut their roster from 90 players to 53 by Tuesday afternoon.

Things are moving fast, as the Sept. 10 season opener against the Cowboys is a little more than two weeks away. Here’s a reset on a variety of topics as the Giants continue to move closer to the regular season:

Simmons Image

Unlocking Isaiah Simmons

It was obvious throughout training camp that the Giants’ inside linebacker options next to Bobby Okereke were underwhelming. The expectation was that the team would add a veteran to stabilize the position. Instead, Giants general manager Joe Schoen went in a different direction, trading a seventh-round pick to the Cardinals for Isaiah Simmons, a 25-year-old who failed to live up to expectations as the eighth pick in the 2020 draft.

There’s no downside for the Giants. If Simmons doesn’t pan out, they’ve only invested a seventh-round pick and the $1.01 million salary he’s owed in the final year of his rookie contract. But if the Giants can unlock the physical gifts of the 6-foot-4, 238-pound Simmons, who ran a 4.39-second 40-yard dash at the 2020 combine, they could have a game-changing presence in a defense that is celebrated for its malleability.

An NFL executive described Simmons as a “talented athlete, but limited football player.”

Simmons’ inability to master any position in his first three seasons has been the main hindrance to realizing his potential. So this union with defensive coordinator Wink Martindale, who prides himself on deploying a “positionless” defense, gives Simmons his best chance to succeed.

Simmons played roughly 55 percent of his snaps in his first two seasons as an off-ball linebacker, with about 23 percent of his snaps on the defensive line and 18 percent of his snaps at slot corner. His slot usage jumped to 46 percent last season, with 33 percent of his snaps at off-ball linebacker and 12 percent of his snaps on the defensive line.

Simmons told the new coaching staff in Arizona this offseason that he didn’t want to play linebacker. He was shifted to deep safety, and the early returns weren’t promising. Giants coach Brian Daboll wouldn’t commit to a position for Simmons on Thursday, stating that the new acquisition “has some multiple-role potential.”

At least initially, the Giants will likely simplify Simmons’ responsibilities so his athleticism can flourish. Martindale loves to use hybrid linebacker/safeties on passing downs, which seems like a role ideally suited for Simmons’ skill set. He’ll be able to blitz and play man coverage, without having to deal with the physicality of playing the run on early downs. Simmons should be an upgrade on the veteran retreads who filled that role last season, with the potential for much more.


Target tally

The value of training camp stats is debatable, but if the team is practicing, it’s useful to at least have a record of who is making plays. It seems particularly worthwhile to note who is catching the most passes from starting quarterback Daniel Jones.

So here’s a breakdown of the receivers for Jones’ 180 completions during 11-on-11 periods during camp: TE Darren Waller (40 catches), WR Darius Slayton (27), RB Saquon Barkley (23), WR Parris Campbell (20), WR Isaiah Hodgins (17), WR Jalin Hyatt (10), TE Daniel Bellinger (10), WR Cole Beasley (9), WR Sterling Shepard (6), RB Matt Breida (5), WR Jamison Crowder (4), RB Gary Brightwell (2), WR Collin Johnson (2), TE Lawrence Cager (2), RB Eric Gray (1), WR David Sills (1) and RB James Robinson (1).

It wouldn’t be surprising if the order of that list is reflected in the regular season production of the Giants’ receiving weapons.

Jones only threw two interceptions on his 242 attempts during 11-on-11 periods in camp. Cornerback Tre Hawkins and safety Dane Belton had the picks. Jones threw 10 interceptions on 184 attempts in last year’s camp.

Johnson (18 catches), Sills (18), Shepard (14) and Crowder (11) were the most productive receivers for No. 2 quarterback Tyrod Taylor in camp. WR Jayon Mickens (13), WR Kalil Pimpleton (10) and TE Ryan Jones (10) were the most productive receivers for No. 3 quarterback Tommy DeVito in camp.


Where Jones is improving

Jones has noticeably improved his off-platform throws this summer. A prime example came during the joint practices with the Lions, when Jones moved to his right as he climbed the pocket before flicking a perfect pass across the field to Slayton in the left corner of the end zone. ----> Tweet Video link

Jones has also unveiled different arm angles to deliver passes. He had to drop his arm to avoid a charging defender on his touchdown pass to Bellinger in last Friday’s preseason game.

Despite his athleticism, Jones was more robotic early in his career. But after making major strides last season, Jones put an emphasis on improving his ability to make throws on the move this offseason.

“I know that was something he definitely worked on in the offseason down in Mobile with his private quarterback coach,” quarterbacks coach Shea Tierney said. “When we left here last offseason, we talked about doing that. He went and executed his plan in the offseason.”

Tierney structures drills in practice to force Jones to make quick reactions and throw passes without setting his feet perfectly.

“We’re not emphasizing necessarily, ‘Get out of the pocket and make plays.’ But when it’s there and you feel it, you’ve got to have kind of a natural feel,” Tierney said. “When you have that natural feel, it lets your instincts take over.”
 
part 2:

Roster bubble

Special teams participation is typically a good indicator of who will make the roster. If a player isn’t starting on offense or defense and doesn’t have a prominent role in the kicking game, they’re likely in trouble.

Ford-Wheaton, Cager, ILB Carter Coughlin and OLB Tomon Fox appear to be starters on the core four special teams units — kickoff, kickoff return, punt and punt return. Belton, ILB Micah McFadden and S Gervarrius Owens are also heavily involved on special teams. Breida is expected to replace Julian Love in the important role of personal protector on punts.

The picture is clouded by injuries to RB Gary Brightwell, ILB Cam Brown, CB Nick McCloud and CB Cor’Dale Flott. Brightwell and Brown have been core special teamers for the past few seasons, but both have been sidelined and could be squeezed out of roster spots.

McCloud is arguably the best special teams player on the roster, so he should be safe since he’s expected to return from his groin injury by the opener. As a 2022 third-round pick, Flott is safe from getting cut and he could fill a role as a gunner on punt coverage.

Additional notes

• Last year, the Giants added five players between cut day and the season opener. Such drastic last-minute roster turnover isn’t expected in Year 2 of this regime.

Part of that is because the depth of the roster has improved. But it will also be tougher to land desirable players since the Giants are 25th in the waiver order. They were fifth in the waiver order last year.

With a need for reinforcements at offensive tackle, outside linebacker and cornerback, don’t rule out another trade in lieu of hoping to land a waiver claim. The Simmons deal shows that it only takes a late Day 3 pick to swing a trade if the Giants target a player on the chopping block for another team.

But with the Giants down to six picks in the 2024 draft (one in each of the first six rounds), a player-for-player trade among players on their respective teams’ roster bubbles could be more likely. Slot cornerback Darnay Holmes has fallen out of favor in New York, but perhaps he could have some trade value to the Raiders to reunite with former Giants defensive coordinator Patrick Graham.

• The Giants played their first game last Friday on the new FieldTurf that was installed at MetLife Stadium during the offseason. The initial reviews from players were favorable.

“The turf is great now,” Breida said. “I never had any issues with the turf before, but I know a lot of other players did. The old turf was a lot stickier with your cleats. This one feels a lot more like actual grass. I think a lot of the players like it a lot more. It’s comparable to Dallas’ turf, and Dallas has got really good turf.”

• Of the Giants’ 19 training camp practices, seven were conducted in full pads. By comparison, 10 of the Giants’ 19 camp practices were in full pads last year. The CBA allows teams to hold a maximum of 16 fully-padded practices during camp.

Daboll has leaned heavily on the organization’s sports science staff this summer, with frequent days off for veterans and players returning from injuries. The Giants haven’t lost any key players to a major injury during camp, so the less-is-more approach appears to be paying off.

(Top photo of Isaiah Simmons: Michael Owens / Getty Images)
 
ESPN: How all 259 NFL draft picks have looked in the preseason
New York Giants

Round 1 (No. 24): Deonte Banks, CB. The summer started slowly for Banks, who was getting picked on regularly the first few days of camp. Since then, however, he has gradually improved to the point that he's now an asset, not a liability. The Giants remain extremely high on him and there is little doubt Banks will start at one cornerback spot this season. He has worked with the first-team defense pretty much from Day 1. Banks can run with any receiver (see: Detroit's Jameson Williams) and plays physical defense, which coordinator Wink Martindale demands.

Round 2 (No. 57): John Michael Schmitz Jr., C. He began the summer rotating with the starters at center, alongside Ben Bredeson. Now, it's Schmitz's job. He's looked especially strong in the first two preseason games, making calls and anchoring the line. "We're excited about what the future holds for him," general manager Joe Schoen said recently, after noting that Schmitz is holding his own every day in practice against Dexter Lawrence II.

Round 3 (No. 73): Jalin Hyatt, WR. Hyatt has shown the blazing speed that made him the Biletnikoff Award winner on a regular basis. Despite spending most of his time with the second-team offense and being sprinkled in with the starters, Hyatt is a big play waiting to happen. It showed in the preseason against the Panthers, when he hauled in a 33-yard touchdown catch by using that signature speed to get behind the defense.

Round 5 (No. 172): Eric Gray, RB. The Giants are trying to shoehorn Gray into a return role, although it has not looked natural. But Gray has shown well as a strong one-cut runner in the preseason and training camp practices.

Round 6 (No. 209): Tre Hawkins III, CB. This has been the surprise of training camp. Hawkins has been so good using his size and physicality that the Giants have him working with the first-team defense alongside Banks, with Adoree' Jackson sliding inside. The early returns say Hawkins will be a steal.

Round 7 (No. 243): Jordon Riley, DT. Riley is another Giants rookie who has really turned heads, despite limited college hype and success. Martindale is especially high on Riley, who has excelled in preseason action to work himself up the depth chart. He could be in the defensive line rotation early this season.

Round 7 (No. 254): Gervarrius Owens, S. He has played well in the preseason and should fit in a reserve role as a rookie. His size (6-foot, 200 pounds) and instincts separate him from the undrafted competition. -- Jordan Raanan
 
Any Giants homers want to chime in on the pecking order at WR? I know Waller is in town, and Saquon is a good receiver out of the backfield. I'm just trying to figure out if there is anything to mine here.
 
Any Giants homers want to chime in on the pecking order at WR? I know Waller is in town, and Saquon is a good receiver out of the backfield. I'm just trying to figure out if there is anything to mine here.
After those two the highest floor may be Hodgins. But for a late round flyer I'd take Hyatt. Just my 2 cents
 
Also to that end, to what degree should I have Wan'Dale Robinson on my radar?
He was drafted by the current GM in the 2nd round so he has that going for him. He is just coming off the PUP so no one has seen him since he tore his ACL last season.
 
Any Giants homers want to chime in on the pecking order at WR? I know Waller is in town, and Saquon is a good receiver out of the backfield. I'm just trying to figure out if there is anything to mine here.
After those two the highest floor may be Hodgins. But for a late round flyer I'd take Hyatt. Just my 2 cents
For late in the season, I agree with Hyatt. If you are looking for someone to produce early, I'd go with Slayton. He has the most experience with Jones.
 
Reggie Roberson had an excellent tryout with the Giants.
Instead of being happy to possibly be offered a roster spot or PS spot, his agent is looking for $.
Ugh
Love him but he can't catch a break

Y'all let me know if ya hear anything. Sadly he's probably gotta tell the agent to shush and find a spot on another team
 

"The Giants have restructured the contract of QB Daniel Jones, converting $8.42M of his base salary into a signing bonus and creating $6.315M in cap space, per source."
Mike Evans?
I don't see the Evans thing happening ... Giants had one of the smallest cap space heading into the start of the season and will need Cap $$$ as they move players on and off the practice squad and sign players as inury replacements etc ... Trading for Evans would immediately eat up all of the cap space they recouped and more.

TB is looking to trade Evans because he is looking for a big contract. It would probably be foolish to blow all of the Cap space on Evans and pickup another huge contract.
Unless Schoen is working on restructuring additional contracts like Williams, Jackson, Gano or Tyrod Taylor ... I dont think they have enough cap space for Evans and the Cap Cushion they will need throughout the season
 
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So Giants homers,any more news/rumors floating about in regards to Mike Evans? Or anything else for that matter.
 
The only thing on Evans is the usual speculation in the media 'Should the Giants take a look at him?/Don't be suprised if they inquire about him' stuff. Zero concrete news so far.
 
Also to that end, to what degree should I have Wan'Dale Robinson on my radar?
I owned a ton of him last year, and just when he was looking like he was putting it all together he got injured. Seems like a super nice guy and a hard worker, but until he shows me something on the field I'm staying far away. Note: listed as doubtful for this weekend.
 
Any Giants homers want to chime in on the pecking order at WR? I know Waller is in town, and Saquon is a good receiver out of the backfield. I'm just trying to figure out if there is anything to mine here.
If you've got a deep bench I'd suggest stashing Hyatt. I don't think he's going to be an instant smash, but once they figure out how to effectively use his speed he could really take off. Gotta have patience. There's too many mouths to feed on this offense right now for him to be a PPR monster, but they don't have anyone on that roster that can stretch a defense like he can. He's got cheat code level speed.

As a footnote, remember he's going to be on the field for the first Sunday Night game of the season, so everyone in your league(s) will be watching (the window to stash him might be closing).
 
Welp. The entire right side of the line was non-existent. Might just played 9. I see Jones is catching crap, but when the rush is arriving as soon as the snap, I dont care who your skill players are, take the best of the hall of fame at their primes… it just won’t matter.

Last year was fun, as they were watchable. This? It wasn’t worth the time.

For the love all things holy, please just draft oline next year. I can’t take another decade of this crap.
 
Two 1st round tackles, one 2nd round center and this offensive line is still straight ***! Bootylicious!!
 
I really have no more patience to listen to anyone who claims the Giants have skill positions as being the cause of failure. Qb, rb, etc. Until they can do the most basic thing… block and snap, it doesn’t matter. I can’t believe they are going into what, their 2nd decade of crap oline play. It’s pathetic. I’m beyond disappointed now. I had hopes they had started to turn a corner. Instead, they’ve regressed. As if that was possible.


No, I don’t Dallas is all that. I think the 49ers and eagles are still miles better.
 
I really have no more patience to listen to anyone who claims the Giants have skill positions as being the cause of failure. Qb, rb, etc. Until they can do the most basic thing… block and snap, it doesn’t matter. I can’t believe they are going into what, their 2nd decade of crap oline play. It’s pathetic. I’m beyond disappointed now. I had hopes they had started to turn a corner. Instead, they’ve regressed. As if that was possible.


No, I don’t Dallas is all that. I think the 49ers and eagles are still miles better.
Doesn't even matter who's better, if the Giants face a team with a really good pass rush/good enough corners, their O is in danger is getting shut down. They'll be fine against Arizona, whose pass rush isn't that good and Saquon should be able to run on them easily. But the Niners in week 3? Seahawks in Week 4? Hell, they have Miami in week 5... Brian Daboll is going to have to coach a much better game and do SOMETHING to adjust and help out his young, somewhat overmatched O-line. Whether it's max protect/using more jumbo packages, chipping with the RBs or asking TEs to help out on blocking, there seemed to be little adjustment outside of hanging Evan Neal out to dry. And when the line actually protected, Jones was too shellshocked to deliver the throw on-target/his receivers caught it and fumbled. It was a complete cluster**** outlining the worst case scenario for this Giants team - getting behind 2 scores and having to have Jones constantly drop back a.k.a The Line That Shalt Not Be Crossed.
 
I'm not sure how high the line has to be for me to not bet the giants this week coming up. Az played over their heads by simply being in the game week one and ohhh man will the giants be motivated to run up the score. Jones has a history of playing well against poor defenses (and crumbling against good ones) so I expect him to be able to complete a few passes this game. And Daboll can't coach worse.

This is the classic "nobody believes in us" game
 
I really have no more patience to listen to anyone who claims the Giants have skill positions as being the cause of failure. Qb, rb, etc. Until they can do the most basic thing… block and snap, it doesn’t matter. I can’t believe they are going into what, their 2nd decade of crap oline play. It’s pathetic. I’m beyond disappointed now. I had hopes they had started to turn a corner. Instead, they’ve regressed. As if that was possible.


No, I don’t Dallas is all that. I think the 49ers and eagles are still miles better.
Bears and Giants fans have a common bond I see.
 
I'm not sure how high the line has to be for me to not bet the giants this week coming up. Az played over their heads by simply being in the game week one and ohhh man will the giants be motivated to run up the score. Jones has a history of playing well against poor defenses (and crumbling against good ones) so I expect him to be able to complete a few passes this game. And Daboll can't coach worse.

This is the classic "nobody believes in us" game
They were so bad that every site took the line off the board. The Look ahead was Giants -6
 

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