2024-25 NBA Thread: Celtics fan proudly looking at 2027 revenue projections (58 Viewers)

[Major]

Hats off to the Wolves for their very good season.

Leaving room for them to come back tougher and better than ever next season

Must admit I am a little worried about Ant's progress and I say this as an Ant fan. Seemed to stall out this post season where it was anticipated he'd take the next step. Hate how he just disappears and I often wonder if he "gets it". I definitely have some concern that he has a bit of that Jalen Green gene in him - not much like 5-10% but that's way too much for someone who wants to be the face of the league and mentioned in the same breath as Jokic and SGA.

Funny, I have the opposite take where I think he may "get it" too much and he "got" pretty quickly that OKC was the superior team. So, I'm not too worried about Ant as he'll be a top 5 player for the next ten years but I have concerns that the guy who looked like he may have that irrational confidence now just has rational confidence.

I think we kind of agree then. Seemed like Ant just gave up. Not a trait I want in a leader. Could just be his age combined with OKC's amazing defense but I don't think a guy like Halliburton will bend the knee even if he thinks OKC is better.

 

[Zow]

Hats off to the Wolves for their very good season.

Leaving room for them to come back tougher and better than ever next season

Must admit I am a little worried about Ant's progress and I say this as an Ant fan. Seemed to stall out this post season where it was anticipated he'd take the next step. Hate how he just disappears and I often wonder if he "gets it". I definitely have some concern that he has a bit of that Jalen Green gene in him - not much like 5-10% but that's way too much for someone who wants to be the face of the league and mentioned in the same breath as Jokic and SGA.

Funny, I have the opposite take where I think he may "get it" too much and he "got" pretty quickly that OKC was the superior team. So, I'm not too worried about Ant as he'll be a top 5 player for the next ten years but I have concerns that the guy who looked like he may have that irrational confidence now just has rational confidence.

I think we kind of agree then. Seemed like Ant just gave up. Not a trait I want in a leader. Could just be his age combined with OKC's amazing defense but I don't think a guy like Halliburton will bend the knee even if he thinks OKC is better.

I thought he played well and made good decisions in game 4. Honestly, I think that his takeaway was probably, "damn, I played well and still lost" making game 5 a bit tough. I'm not all that concerned with him.

My only takeaway is that this likely means he isn't Jordan.

 

[Jayrod]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

 

[Capella]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

Not even 24 years old yet and has been the best player on 2 western conference finals teams. We're fine.

 

[Yo Mama]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

 

[msudaisy26]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

 

[Frostillicus]

There are a lot of eggs in the Dillingham basket right now.

I'm not worried about him. It's awfully tough for a small guard to make an impact as a rookie on a team with Finals aspirations, I just hope he learned a lot this year. And had fun.

 

[scoobus]

There are a lot of eggs in the Dillingham basket right now.

I'm not worried about him. It's awfully tough for a small guard to make an impact as a rookie on a team with Finals aspirations, I just hope he learned a lot this year. And had fun.

It was odd to me how much they didn't use/trust him this year. Hopefully that's more on Finch preferring veterans over rookies than it is an indictment on his ability at the NBA level, but we shall see.

 

[Frostillicus]

There are a lot of eggs in the Dillingham basket right now.

I'm not worried about him. It's awfully tough for a small guard to make an impact as a rookie on a team with Finals aspirations, I just hope he learned a lot this year. And had fun.

It was odd to me how much they didn't use/trust him this year. Hopefully that's more on Finch preferring veterans over rookies than it is an indictment on his ability at the NBA level, but we shall see.

Finch's whole deal this year was trying to use the top 8 as much as possible since they were playing together for the first time. He stuck to it, since both Terrence Shannon and Jaylen Clark showed they can be rotation players and still struggled to see time when everyone was healthy. Those two are the reason I'm not too worried about losing Alexander-Walker. Even though I love him, TSJ and Clark can fill his minutes capably at a much lower price.

 

[Frostillicus]

There are a lot of eggs in the Dillingham basket right now.

I'm not worried about him. It's awfully tough for a small guard to make an impact as a rookie on a team with Finals aspirations, I just hope he learned a lot this year. And had fun.

It was odd to me how much they didn't use/trust him this year. Hopefully that's more on Finch preferring veterans over rookies than it is an indictment on his ability at the NBA level, but we shall see.

Finch's whole deal this year was trying to use the top 8 as much as possible since they were playing together for the first time. He stuck to it, since both Terrence Shannon and Jaylen Clark showed they can be rotation players and still struggled to see time when everyone was healthy. Those two are the reason I'm not too worried about losing Alexander-Walker. Even though I love him, TSJ and Clark can fill his minutes capably at a much lower price.

But, to quote my own post, this again exacerbates the need for Dillingham to be decent. NAW is another one of the Wolves' faux point guards who will initiate things when Conley is on the bench and neither Shannon nor Clark can play that role. We really need a PG.

 

[Capella]

I’d also like to see Ant attack the rim and get to the line more. Too much settling for 3s for somebody with his athleticism. But you probably have to get that slug Gobert out of there for that to happen.

 

[dickey moe]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

So in other words, Ant needs a ****load of help.

 

[Zow]

There are a lot of eggs in the Dillingham basket right now.

I'm not worried about him. It's awfully tough for a small guard to make an impact as a rookie on a team with Finals aspirations, I just hope he learned a lot this year. And had fun.

It was odd to me how much they didn't use/trust him this year. Hopefully that's more on Finch preferring veterans over rookies than it is an indictment on his ability at the NBA level, but we shall see.

From the games I watched and my amateur point of view, Dillingham hasn't quite caught up to the NBA speed yet with his vision and decision-making. Put differently, he looked exactly how a young rookie would look. In contrast, in those same games Conley looked far more poised and reliable. He also still clearly had a strong leadership presence (even more visible in watching them live).

Conley was a fine regular season point guard. I wasn't surprised that he played way more than Dillingham and Minnesota really didn't have any points in the season where they could coast a bit and let rookies play more. He's just at a point in his career where he's just not fast enough and a highly skilled, athletic defensive team like OKC really exposes him.

In short, yeah, Dillingham's lack of play this year did seem to be a result of Finch's preference and the progression of the season (Minnesota was never comfortably in the top 6) than Dillingham being a bust or something.

 

[Gr00vus]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

If you were drafting today, I doubt many would select Tatum over Edwards.

 

[Zow]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

So in other words, Ant needs a ****load of help.

They just made two conference finals in the incredibly tough Western Conference.

Now, given how good OKC is and likely will be the next few years, Ant may need a ****load of help beating OKC. But I strongly disagree that he needs a ****load of help to be a contender when they already are one.

 

[cheese]

Thunder seem good.

Best defense since... 08 Celtics? 04 Pistons?

They're pretty incredible. Since I watch all the Wolves games what they really reminded me of was last year's Wolves team but a fully optimized version. Like a Pokemon evolution or whatever. Super athletic, tall, wingspans, who run around like their hair is on fire to rotate and close out on shooters or cut off driving lanes and know they can be over aggressive because they have a shot-blocker at the rim. Except where the Wolves had Ant, Jaden, and NAW backed by Rudy with needing to cover for Conley, Naz, and KAT, the Thunder have SGA, Jalen, Dort, Caruso, and Wallace with Chet and Hartenstein at the rim. Zero weak spots and just waves of athletic perimeter defenders.

I am interested to see how Haliburton handles them and how the Thunder play him.

The teams that play Haliburton the best are the zone teams. The teams that play him 2nd best are the face guard him constantly, don't let him catch it, play 4v4 teams. The teams that play him OK are teams where his primary defender is elite at screen navigation and can stay on him. The teams that absolutely die and Hali names his stat lines are the switching defenses. If you try to switch Hali, you will change defenses in game2 after you've seen 30 pts 10 assts live. #1 the way he attacks the defense during the switch is hard to handle and #2 if you manage to switch, the pacers will use any of the other 4 as the screener to get who they want on Hali so you will always have your 5th best defender on him as the BEST case scenario.

 

[Zow]

I’d also like to see Ant attack the rim and get to the line more. Too much settling for 3s for somebody with his athleticism. But you probably have to get that slug Gobert out of there for that to happen.

He shot great from 3 this year. Nearly 40% at a high volume.

 

[Zow]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

If I were a young whippersnapper in a gym, I may try to punch you for this.

 

[dickey moe]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

If you were drafting today, I doubt many would select Tatum over Edwards.

Hmm... injury aside, not so sure about that.

 

[General Malaise]

Thunder seem good.

Best defense since... 08 Celtics? 04 Pistons?

They're pretty incredible. Since I watch all the Wolves games what they really reminded me of was last year's Wolves team but a fully optimized version. Like a Pokemon evolution or whatever. Super athletic, tall, wingspans, who run around like their hair is on fire to rotate and close out on shooters or cut off driving lanes and know they can be over aggressive because they have a shot-blocker at the rim. Except where the Wolves had Ant, Jaden, and NAW backed by Rudy with needing to cover for Conley, Naz, and KAT, the Thunder have SGA, Jalen, Dort, Caruso, and Wallace with Chet and Hartenstein at the rim. Zero weak spots and just waves of athletic perimeter defenders.

I am interested to see how Haliburton handles them and how the Thunder play him.

The teams that play Haliburton the best are the zone teams. The teams that play him 2nd best are the face guard him constantly, don't let him catch it, play 4v4 teams. The teams that play him OK are teams where his primary defender is elite at screen navigation and can stay on him. The teams that absolutely die and Hali names his stat lines are the switching defenses. If you try to switch Hali, you will change defenses in game2 after you've seen 30 pts 10 assts live. #1 the way he attacks the defense during the switch is hard to handle and #2 if you manage to switch, the pacers will use any of the other 4 as the screener to get who they want on Hali so you will always have your 5th best defender on him as the BEST case scenario.

Now THIS is quality analysis.

 

[msudaisy26]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

So in other words, Ant needs a ****load of help.

Really weird way to say he needs a point guard.

 

[Jayrod]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

If you were drafting today, I doubt many would select Tatum over Edwards.

I doubt that.

By any objective measure, Tatum is already what Edwards fans are just hoping he gets to.

I think the Achilles injury or some kind of extended timeline plan would be the only reason. Based on value in the next 3-5 years, Tatum is already better and isn't old enough to be on the decline yet.

 

[Major]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

 

[Major]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

Isn't that supposed to be Jaden McDaniels?

 

[msudaisy26]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

If you were drafting today, I doubt many would select Tatum over Edwards.

I doubt that.

By any objective measure, Tatum is already what Edwards fans are just hoping he gets to.

I think the Achilles injury or some kind of extended timeline plan would be the only reason. Based on value in the next 3-5 years, Tatum is already better and isn't old enough to be on the decline yet.

Even before the the Achilles very few people were picking Tatum over Edwards.

I compare them season by season. I think they are pretty equal as players through 5 seasons.

 

[msudaisy26]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

Isn't that supposed to be Jaden McDaniels?

If we are comparing them to the Celtics then McDaniels should be Brown. They actually have their White/Holiday, but it is Conley, and he is 100 in basketball years.

 

[Capella]

I’d also like to see Ant attack the rim and get to the line more. Too much settling for 3s for somebody with his athleticism. But you probably have to get that slug Gobert out of there for that to happen.

He shot great from 3 this year. Nearly 40% at a high volume.

Yup. Then down to 35% in the playoffs when things tighten up. He absolutely has to get to the rim and draw more fouls.

 

[Jayrod]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

If you were drafting today, I doubt many would select Tatum over Edwards.

I doubt that.

By any objective measure, Tatum is already what Edwards fans are just hoping he gets to.

I think the Achilles injury or some kind of extended timeline plan would be the only reason. Based on value in the next 3-5 years, Tatum is already better and isn't old enough to be on the decline yet.

Even before the the Achilles very few people were picking Tatum over Edwards.

I compare them season by season. I think they are pretty equal as players through 5 seasons.

What? Who?

The current voters put Tatum 1st team (unanimous) and Edwards 2nd team all NBA.

Ringer's current rankings; Tatum 4, Edwards 7

Early season Hoops Hype ranking; Tatum 6, Edwards 10

USA today pre-season; Tatum 6, Edwards 10

Basketball monster 2024-25 ranking; Tatum 9, Edwards 18

I'm not sure how anyone has "picked" Edwards over Tatum to this point. Maybe based on value compared to contract earnings? Maybe based on future expectations? But nothing based on current or past performance would put ANT over JT. ANT's best case scenario in 3 years is where Tatum is already. Can he get there? Sure. Will he? That's a big if right now.

ETA: Well crap...apparently I don't know how to add links correctly. Those are their rankings if you want to look them up.

 

[dickey moe]

Is ANT more exciting to watch and a more marketable star than Tatum? Sure. Is he overall a more valuable basketball player than Tatum? I don't think so.

 

[msudaisy26]

I've been trying to pump the brakes on ANT since the Olympics debacle where he was considered to have arrived and Tatum was "unplayable ".

Sure, part of it was sour grapes, but there was some truth to the idea that ANT wasn't "him" ( as the kids say these days). I felt the same way about Ja Morant, although even I am a little surprised at how far he's fallen.

ANT has great skills and athleticism, but I think he lacks the mentality to pull off true greatness. He isn't at Tatum's level yet as his game comes and goes too much without adding enough non-scoring traits to make him effective when his shot isn't falling. He reminds me of the likes of Alex English, Dominique or George Gervin; great scorers who never make the jump to top tier/MVP/championship status.

I legit hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling so far.

If you were drafting today, I doubt many would select Tatum over Edwards.

I doubt that.

By any objective measure, Tatum is already what Edwards fans are just hoping he gets to.

I think the Achilles injury or some kind of extended timeline plan would be the only reason. Based on value in the next 3-5 years, Tatum is already better and isn't old enough to be on the decline yet.

Even before the the Achilles very few people were picking Tatum over Edwards.

I compare them season by season. I think they are pretty equal as players through 5 seasons.

What? Who?

The current voters put Tatum 1st team (unanimous) and Edwards 2nd team all NBA.

Ringer's current rankings; Tatum 4, Edwards 7

Early season Hoops Hype ranking; Tatum 6, Edwards 10

USA today pre-season; Tatum 6, Edwards 10

Basketball monster 2024-25 ranking; Tatum 9, Edwards 18

I'm not sure how anyone has "picked" Edwards over Tatum to this point. Maybe based on value compared to contract earnings? Maybe based on future expectations? But nothing based on current or past performance would put ANT over JT. ANT's best case scenario in 3 years is where Tatum is already. Can he get there? Sure. Will he? That's a big if right now.

ETA: Well crap...apparently I don't know how to add links correctly. Those are their rankings if you want to look them up.

I am talking about Tatum and Ant from their 5th season.

Either way if you can't watch both players this season and see that they are pretty equal, despite playing a different position and realize most people would have taken the younger player then I am not sure what else can be said.

 

[Mister CIA]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

Basically, Devin Vassell.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer.

TSJ

It's already on their roster. I think given moves that'll happen this offseason, it'll be fully unlocked. I also expect MN to also be in Durant.

Move on from Conley and get more up tempo. He should have seen less minutes even this season. TSJ is a monster that showed signs of being able to takeover games and a downhill terror in transition

 

[Desert_Power]

Move on from Conley and get more up tempo. He should have seen less minutes even this season

Yeah. Feels like he's a real weak spot on this team.

 

[nirad3]

Move on from Conley and get more up tempo. He should have seen less minutes even this season

Yeah. Feels like he's a real weak spot on this team.

Agree w/ this, and also agree with what someone noted upthread about Gobert. He is a complete offensive black hole. The defense is awesome, but the guy just can't put the ball in the hoop unless it's right underneath it.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

Rudy is a huge part of their success in the last two seasons though. I'm 100% serious when I say he's the biggest reason for their success, behind Ant. Now, if this is as far as they can go with him? That's a differnt discussion.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

Isn't that supposed to be Jaden McDaniels?

Not remotely the same role.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer.

TSJ

It's already on their roster. I think given moves that'll happen this offseason, it'll be fully unlocked. I also expect MN to also be in Durant.

Move on from Conley and get more up tempo. He should have seen less minutes even this season. TSJ is a monster that showed signs of being able to takeover games and a downhill terror in transition

Really like TSJ and he did some awesome things this year. He's also never had a defense give a **** what he does and has been horrendous defensively. I am optimistic but he's not nearly at "second scorer" status yet.

And it's a lot easier to say "move on from Conley" that it is to do with the way the team is currently constructed. With Dillingham deemed not ready to go yet, another conversation we could have, they didn't have much choice to give Conley as many minutes as he could handle. At 37 you're going to see some rough outings.

 

[Zow]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

Rudy is a huge part of their success in the last two seasons though. I'm 100% serious when I say he's the biggest reason for their success, behind Ant. Now, if this is as far as they can go with him? That's a differnt discussion.

Rudy is funny to me. He's been exactly as good as could be expected, and exactly as flawed at times. Not his fault and he's a good guy to have on the team.

Still doesn't justify the trade though. But Rudy has been a positive asset and teammate. No problems with him.

 

[Frostillicus]

My biggest concern is that at some point they have to get a roster around Ant and stick with it. He's had him and KAT and D'Lo, and him and KAT and Rudy, and him and Rudy and Randle in four years.

He's been with Jaden and Naz since his rooke year, and the new group of young guys (Clark, TSJ, and Dillingham) are young, cheap, and talented. Those need to be the core six. So then you need a Center, Point Guard, and a starting caliber PF (Naz is not this). Plus we still have DDV for a few years on a good contract, but I'm ok with trading him too.

Start with those six guys (oldest one of the group is Naz who is 25) and built around them to fit their games. They may need to take a step or two back before they go forward but if they stick with that group good things will come in the end (even gooder than back to back confernce finals)

 

[Major]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

He could use another reliable ballhandler to take some of the pressure off him too.

They need a Jrue Holiday/Derrick White type.

Isn't that supposed to be Jaden McDaniels?

Not remotely the same role.

I was referencing his defensive prowess not necessarily the position.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

Rudy is a huge part of their success in the last two seasons though. I'm 100% serious when I say he's the biggest reason for their success, behind Ant. Now, if this is as far as they can go with him? That's a differnt discussion.

Rudy is funny to me. He's been exactly as good as could be expected, and exactly as flawed at times. Not his fault and he's a good guy to have on the team.

Still doesn't justify the trade though. But Rudy has been a positive asset and teammate. No problems with him.

Which non-prospect or draft pick in the 20s or non-conveying pick swap outweighs the two conference finals for you?

 

[Frostillicus]

For Gobert:

Leandro Balmaro
Walker Kessler
Jarred Vanderbilt
Malik Beasley
Keyonte George
Pick #21
2026 1st round pick swap which won't convey
2027 1st round pick
2029 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

 

[Zow]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

Rudy is a huge part of their success in the last two seasons though. I'm 100% serious when I say he's the biggest reason for their success, behind Ant. Now, if this is as far as they can go with him? That's a differnt discussion.

Rudy is funny to me. He's been exactly as good as could be expected, and exactly as flawed at times. Not his fault and he's a good guy to have on the team.

Still doesn't justify the trade though. But Rudy has been a positive asset and teammate. No problems with him.

Which non-prospect or draft pick in the 20s or non-conveying pick swap outweighs the two conference finals for you?

I'm not looking at it in hindsight. I maintain that they overpaid from an analysis at the time.

Again, I like Rudy and am happy we have him. Just like a nice Ferrari I may have otherwise been upcharged by $50k+ for or something. Doesn't mean my purchase was smart even if I like the outcome.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

Rudy is a huge part of their success in the last two seasons though. I'm 100% serious when I say he's the biggest reason for their success, behind Ant. Now, if this is as far as they can go with him? That's a differnt discussion.

Rudy is funny to me. He's been exactly as good as could be expected, and exactly as flawed at times. Not his fault and he's a good guy to have on the team.

Still doesn't justify the trade though. But Rudy has been a positive asset and teammate. No problems with him.

Which non-prospect or draft pick in the 20s or non-conveying pick swap outweighs the two conference finals for you?

I'm not looking at it in hindsight. I maintain that they overpaid from an analysis at the time.

Again, I like Rudy and am happy we have him. Just like a nice Ferrari I may have otherwise been upcharged by $50k+ for or something. Doesn't mean my purchase was smart even if I like the outcome.

I think we could agree on this analogy: They made a bet with enough capital that if it didn't work out it would have really hurt. But it worked out. Whether it was a good or bad bet at this point I suppose is open to interpretation.

 

[Zow]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

Rudy is a huge part of their success in the last two seasons though. I'm 100% serious when I say he's the biggest reason for their success, behind Ant. Now, if this is as far as they can go with him? That's a differnt discussion.

Rudy is funny to me. He's been exactly as good as could be expected, and exactly as flawed at times. Not his fault and he's a good guy to have on the team.

Still doesn't justify the trade though. But Rudy has been a positive asset and teammate. No problems with him.

Which non-prospect or draft pick in the 20s or non-conveying pick swap outweighs the two conference finals for you?

I'm not looking at it in hindsight. I maintain that they overpaid from an analysis at the time.

Again, I like Rudy and am happy we have him. Just like a nice Ferrari I may have otherwise been upcharged by $50k+ for or something. Doesn't mean my purchase was smart even if I like the outcome.

I think we could agree on this analogy: They made a bet with enough capital that if it didn't work out it would have really hurt. But it worked out. Whether it was a good or bad bet at this point I suppose is open to interpretation.

That's fair.

I guess I still think of it as an overpay, risky gamble. Like going on in pre-flop with pocket JJs in early position. Yeah, you might win and JJ is a very good hand, but that doesn't justify the move even if you do win.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ant just needs better spacing, some more shooters and/or a second elite scorer. He’s a one man band out there offensively. The rest of this stuff is just ESPN hot take/Kendrick Perkins nonsense.

I mean he does have quality role players who can shoot but I really think the guy holding them back is Gobert. Imagine what kind of offensive weapon they could add with all that salary.

Rudy is a huge part of their success in the last two seasons though. I'm 100% serious when I say he's the biggest reason for their success, behind Ant. Now, if this is as far as they can go with him? That's a differnt discussion.

Rudy is funny to me. He's been exactly as good as could be expected, and exactly as flawed at times. Not his fault and he's a good guy to have on the team.

Still doesn't justify the trade though. But Rudy has been a positive asset and teammate. No problems with him.

Which non-prospect or draft pick in the 20s or non-conveying pick swap outweighs the two conference finals for you?

I'm not looking at it in hindsight. I maintain that they overpaid from an analysis at the time.

Again, I like Rudy and am happy we have him. Just like a nice Ferrari I may have otherwise been upcharged by $50k+ for or something. Doesn't mean my purchase was smart even if I like the outcome.

I think we could agree on this analogy: They made a bet with enough capital that if it didn't work out it would have really hurt. But it worked out. Whether it was a good or bad bet at this point I suppose is open to interpretation.

That's fair.

I guess I still think of it as an overpay, risky gamble. Like going on in pre-flop with pocket JJs in early position. Yeah, you might win and JJ is a very good hand, but that doesn't justify the move.

The ends justify the mean.

 

[Capella]

For Gobert:

Leandro Balmaro
Walker Kessler
Jarred Vanderbilt
Malik Beasley
Keyonte George
Pick #21
2026 1st round pick swap which won't convey
2027 1st round pick
2029 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

It’s not the worst trade ever in hindsight but it sure ain’t the best and it hurt their flexibility going forward. Along with how he clogs the toilet on offense. But I don’t know enough to say if they made it this far the last two years without him either.

 

[Frostillicus]

For Gobert:

Leandro Balmaro
Walker Kessler
Jarred Vanderbilt
Malik Beasley
Keyonte George
Pick #21
2026 1st round pick swap which won't convey
2027 1st round pick
2029 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

It’s not the worst trade ever in hindsight but it sure ain’t the best and it hurt their flexibility going forward. Along with how he clogs the toilet on offense. But I don’t know enough to say if they made it this far the last two years without him either.

Well, the new CBA hurt their flexibility. The Wolves would have never traded for him if they knew those cap rules were coming.

 

[irish eyes]

Haliburton went from an epic game to invisible. How does that happen.