Zow
Footballguy
I doubt perfection is coming given the Lakers' cap situation and the players available.
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2024-25 NBA Thread: posters rush in to make final bad Bronny takes before thread locks (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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Kev4029
Footballguy
A KCP return would be more ideal if they are looking at '27 to spend all their cap.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Raising'em right. I mean, be very afraid.
andscape.com
Rookie guard Dylan Harper ready for NBA education with San Antonio Spurs
San Antonio Spurs rookie guard Dylan Harper was already in awe when he saw all five of the Spurs’ NBA championship banners hanging from the rafters at their pra…
andscape.com
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Groups are announced for the Cup!
The groups:
East Group A - Cleveland, Indiana, Atlanta, Toronto, Washington.
East Group B - Boston, Detroit, Orlando, Brooklyn, Philadelphia.
East Group C - Milwaukee, New York, Chicago, Miami, Charlotte.
West Group A - Oklahoma City, Minnesota, Sacramento, Phoenix, Utah.
West Group B - L.A. Lakers, LA Clippers, Memphis, Dallas, New Orleans.
West Group C - Houston, Denver, Golden State, Portland, San Antonio.
The groups:
East Group A - Cleveland, Indiana, Atlanta, Toronto, Washington.
East Group B - Boston, Detroit, Orlando, Brooklyn, Philadelphia.
East Group C - Milwaukee, New York, Chicago, Miami, Charlotte.
West Group A - Oklahoma City, Minnesota, Sacramento, Phoenix, Utah.
West Group B - L.A. Lakers, LA Clippers, Memphis, Dallas, New Orleans.
West Group C - Houston, Denver, Golden State, Portland, San Antonio.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
West group c is the death group.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
East B looks pretty strong too.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Interesting. Looks like several reports that the Celtics have already been actively shopping Anfernee Simons.
sports.yahoo.com
Celtics reportedly actively shopping guard Anfernee Simons
The Celtics acquired Simons from Portland in the Jrue Holiday trade and are now trying to flip him.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Interesting. Looks like several reports that the Celtics have already been actively shopping Anfernee Simons.
Celtics reportedly actively shopping guard Anfernee Simons
The Celtics acquired Simons from Portland in the Jrue Holiday trade and are now trying to flip him.
They are getting their two 2nd round picks back now, aren't they? Lol
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They have no size, at least not any with much experience. They also won’t have much space under the second apron in 26-27 when Tatum gets back. I hate to suggest it, they may as well trade White while his value if high. He’s already lost some speed to shifty guards defensively and will be 33 in two years.Interesting. Looks like several reports that the Celtics have already been actively shopping Anfernee Simons.
Celtics reportedly actively shopping guard Anfernee Simons
The Celtics acquired Simons from Portland in the Jrue Holiday trade and are now trying to flip him.
scoobus
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
That is the first thing I thought when I seen the Pistons group. Detroit got worse, Boston is a lot worse, Brooklyn is tanking, and who knows what Philly will be.
Kev4029
Footballguy
@jvdesigns2002 - for whatever reason quoting your post is kind of broken...
Regarding last season, I think you are using a combination of revisionist history to think the Nuggets were a contender (they weren't except for a brief moment during OKC game 6 prior to Gordon hurting his hammy) combined with somehow also exaggerating their weaknesses (Jokic's defense) while also downplaying their weaknesses (justifying their contenderness while having a bad defense to justify the Lakers being a contender in 25-26). The Nuggets weren't contenders going into the playoffs - they were +3500 to win the finals going into the first round. They were basically a toss up to win the the first round (betting odds I think were generally something like -125 but the media was definitely more on the side of LAC) - they started creeping into that conversation because Jokic was dragging them to contention with OKC and Gordon got healthy. The Nuggets defense was terrible last year and I commented a lot on it here - and there lots of reasons for it (Jokic playing too many minutes, Murray coming in out of shape, coasting for the playoffs, injuries to Gordon, the strange vibes between the players-coach-FO) but I don't think any reasonable person would make the argument that it was because Jokic is soft. Regarding the Nuggets' (and by comparison, the Lakers' depth), that was ultimately probably the biggest reason they weren't contenders - MPJ was playing with one arm and that was better than the options they had on the bench. Comparing the 25 Lakers to the 24 Nuggets is both exactly why the Lakers aren't contenders in 25-26 and unfair to the 24 Nuggets because Jokic is so much better and more adaptable than Doncic.
As for the other stuff, I guess we will see. It's a lot of speculation and projecting for any of us. I think the Lakers management agrees more with me or they would not have let DFS walk and they potentially would have used their draft picks to upgrade the roster.
Regarding last season, I think you are using a combination of revisionist history to think the Nuggets were a contender (they weren't except for a brief moment during OKC game 6 prior to Gordon hurting his hammy) combined with somehow also exaggerating their weaknesses (Jokic's defense) while also downplaying their weaknesses (justifying their contenderness while having a bad defense to justify the Lakers being a contender in 25-26). The Nuggets weren't contenders going into the playoffs - they were +3500 to win the finals going into the first round. They were basically a toss up to win the the first round (betting odds I think were generally something like -125 but the media was definitely more on the side of LAC) - they started creeping into that conversation because Jokic was dragging them to contention with OKC and Gordon got healthy. The Nuggets defense was terrible last year and I commented a lot on it here - and there lots of reasons for it (Jokic playing too many minutes, Murray coming in out of shape, coasting for the playoffs, injuries to Gordon, the strange vibes between the players-coach-FO) but I don't think any reasonable person would make the argument that it was because Jokic is soft. Regarding the Nuggets' (and by comparison, the Lakers' depth), that was ultimately probably the biggest reason they weren't contenders - MPJ was playing with one arm and that was better than the options they had on the bench. Comparing the 25 Lakers to the 24 Nuggets is both exactly why the Lakers aren't contenders in 25-26 and unfair to the 24 Nuggets because Jokic is so much better and more adaptable than Doncic.
As for the other stuff, I guess we will see. It's a lot of speculation and projecting for any of us. I think the Lakers management agrees more with me or they would not have let DFS walk and they potentially would have used their draft picks to upgrade the roster.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Thanks for breaking it down. Aside from watching Celtics games, I don’t follow the salary cap/future roster stuff much. So what is their overall plan here? Do they think that Tatum (who will be coming off an Achilles in 26-27) , Brown, and perhaps Pritchard are enough for them to stay contenders in 26-27—and to effectively kinda throw away the 25-26 season? Are they looking to effectively start over in 26-27 with Tatum as their only real protected franchise asset—to where even Brown may be moved ahead of that?They have no size, at least not any with much experience. They also won’t have much space under the second apron in 26-27 when Tatum gets back. I hate to suggest it, they may as well trade White while his value if high. He’s already lost some speed to shifty guards defensively and will be 33 in two years.Interesting. Looks like several reports that the Celtics have already been actively shopping Anfernee Simons.
Celtics reportedly actively shopping guard Anfernee Simons
The Celtics acquired Simons from Portland in the Jrue Holiday trade and are now trying to flip him.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Holy crap.
www.espn.com
Ex-NBA player McLemore gets prison sentence
A judge sentenced Ben McLemore to more than eight years in Oregon state prison after the former NBA guard was found guilty of raping and sexually assaulting a 21-year-old woman in 2021.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Holy crap.
Ex-NBA player McLemore gets prison sentence
A judge sentenced Ben McLemore to more than eight years in Oregon state prison after the former NBA guard was found guilty of raping and sexually assaulting a 21-year-old woman in 2021.
Yeah, this happened at Robert Convington's house in Lake Oswego, which is one of the higher-end neighborhoods in the Portland area. It's been a pretty big news story here for a while. RoCo had to testify in this case. May the victim feel some peace and continue to heel.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Wow, that's crazyHoly crap.
Ex-NBA player McLemore gets prison sentence
A judge sentenced Ben McLemore to more than eight years in Oregon state prison after the former NBA guard was found guilty of raping and sexually assaulting a 21-year-old woman in 2021.
Yeah, this happened at Robert Convington's house in Lake Oswego, which is one of the higher-end neighborhoods in the Portland area. It's been a pretty big news story here for a while. RoCo had to testify in this case. May the victim feel some peace and continue to heel.
the moops
Footballguy
I am skeptical that Detroit got worse. Yes, they lost Beasley, Hardaway, Schroder, and Fontecchio. Their replacements in LeVert and Robinson are certainly a downgrade. But Detroit can and should expect improvements from Cade and Ausar in particular, but also Holland and Duren. And they are getting Ivey back from his injury
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I agree with Ivey, but I think Holland needs another season. I don't think Thompson or Duren will ever be plus NBA players. Their offensive games are too limited, plus Duren is extention eligible and I wouldn't pay a center that can't score outside the paint in today's league.
the moops
Footballguy
It's not a matter of whether Thompson or Duren become plus NBA players, or not about Duren's extension. It's about whether they will be better players this year than last, and whether that improvement is enough to offset the losses.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
worst extension ever at that price. Suns are a poverty franchise.
worst extension ever at that price. Suns are a poverty franchise.
Capella
Footballguy
Worst position to be in this sport is in the super duper max with a guy who is like a top-20 player but not top-8 and can’t win you a title.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
But they also don’t have any first round picks they own outright until like the presidential election after the next presidential election so may as well go nuts.
nirad3
Footballguy
That's just unreal. I'm happy when I see a dime on the ground.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Duren is what he is, he isn't getting better. Thompson won't shoot well enough to offset the downgrades in shooting unless he makes the biggest jump in history. We are talking bout Ben Simmons levels of shooting.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Calling the team who just handed out the largest annual contract value a “poverty” franchise is an interesting word choice.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
Kev4029
Footballguy
Alternatively, it is the best extension ever at that price.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
The fact that a very good but not top-tier-elite player has made >$500 million in earnings is pretty nuts. Good for him, but it's nuts.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
That's what I meant by "at that price".The fact that a very good but not top-tier-elite player has made >$500 million in earnings is pretty nuts. Good for him, but it's nuts.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
You wanna pay him that go ahead, but a dude getting that money better be a perennial MVP candidate.
Great player, still not great enough for that kinda money.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Duren will still be 21 years old on opening day. He is younger than one third of the players drafted this year (4 first rounders, 16 second rounders). I'm not saying he will continue to improve but counting him out at 21 years old is strange, especially when he had some improvement over the last three seasons.
FWIW, he is nearly a full year younger than Ausar Thompson and two years younger than Ivey and he'll still be the second youngest player on roster next year for them.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Okay, but he has no game outside of the paint, and no post game where you can dump to him and let him get a bucket and he is going to want to get paid. Could he better version of Clint Capela? Maybe . He might be young , but he is going into year four without post moves and he can't shoot. That isn't helping you win a title if you have to pay him 35ish million a year. Plus you can't play him and Thompson together because neither of them can shoot and it further restricts what you can do with the team.
Hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it Duren and to some extent Thompson.
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Capella
Footballguy
Well if he ain’t making it the owners would be so give him even more imo.The fact that a very good but not top-tier-elite player has made >$500 million in earnings is pretty nuts. Good for him, but it's nuts.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
Zow
Footballguy
Right. I have the same thought process for Kirk Cousins. Good on the player for over-maximizing his value. I wish I could do the same at my job.Well if he ain’t making it the owners would be so give him even more imo.The fact that a very good but not top-tier-elite player has made >$500 million in earnings is pretty nuts. Good for him, but it's nuts.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
It is the NBA's fault for having max contracts and how their cap is designed. There is no negotiating really with an all-star caliber player or the best player on your team -- they get the max basically that is set by a calculation.
Actually no, the owners and players would still be splitting the revenue the same percentage either way.Well if he ain’t making it the owners would be so give him even more imo.The fact that a very good but not top-tier-elite player has made >$500 million in earnings is pretty nuts. Good for him, but it's nuts.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
Capella
Footballguy
My point was if the players got paid less the owners would make more. Booker isn’t top-5 but he’s been all-nba so he’s gonna get that money.Actually no, the owners and players would still be splitting the revenue the same percentage either way.Well if he ain’t making it the owners would be so give him even more imo.The fact that a very good but not top-tier-elite player has made >$500 million in earnings is pretty nuts. Good for him, but it's nuts.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
Frostillicus
Footballguy
The alternative is to not pay Booker, but it doesn't mean you suddenly get $75 million to just spend on other players.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
And, of course, if you don't extend your max guy then in a future you might lose out on someone who will remember that.
If you're anti-paying Booker, what would you do?
And I don't even like Booker.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Zach Lowe talked about this a bit in his latest pod. The only pressure to do this extension now was because Ishbia made a bunch of public comments about wanting to lock in Booker long-term. Booker had 3 years (counting 25/26) on his existing deal so there was no rush to do this extension this offseason. It would have been better for the team to wait until next year to do this at this level if they still wanted, especially to wait and see how the Beal situation shakes out.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
well fine
Under the current system if Booker got less other players would get more, though.My point was if the players got paid less the owners would make more. Booker isn’t top-5 but he’s been all-nba so he’s gonna get that money.Actually no, the owners and players would still be splitting the revenue the same percentage either way.Well if he ain’t making it the owners would be so give him even more imo.The fact that a very good but not top-tier-elite player has made >$500 million in earnings is pretty nuts. Good for him, but it's nuts.Is anybody in America having a better day today than Devin Booker?
the moops
Footballguy
I agree. Teams maybe have gotten a little better, but there is still work. Just because a guy is the best player on your team, doesn't mean he is worth a max contract.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
That is true, but I think Booker is right on the line of a max player. He isn't a Luka, Giannis, Jokic etc type player that can carry you to the finals, but he is definitively in that next tier of guys. I dont think this is a bad extension at all because Booker should still be good at the end of it. I think it looks bad because the Suns are a disaster and are paying him top dollar to be a playin type of team.
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I don’t expect the Suns to be anything super relevant for a while and I think that in the wide scope of the NBA that the Booker thing can easily look like an overpay. However, I think that in the case of the Suns—I think they had two options. Either pay him big 2 year extension (as he’s still young enough to command value a couple/few years down the road) or trade him now (and frankly, the timing probably isn’t great). To put things in perspective—with the two additional years at 145 million—he’s effectively under contract for 5 years and $316 (63.2 million average pro-rated). million now. Chet Holmgren just signed a 5 year $250 million dollar ($50 million per year average). contract being a second or third best player on a team. Shai just signed for 4 years and $285 million (71.25 million per year average). While the 2 year extension seems crazy expensive at over 70 million a season for Booker—if you look at where it puts him on using a wider lens—I think him averaging somewhere between Holmgren and Shai annually over the next 4-5 year span is reasonable. If salaries tend to trickle upwards with time, the extension could make sense for the Suns. In any case—I just think that the Suns had to do what they could to save face. Booker seems to have embraced the Phoenix community and lifestyle, and it seems as though most fans adore him back even if they are unhappy with the team.
I’m all for keeping your best player and putting even a mildly entertaining product on the floor, but the Suns are a 20-30 win team. They won’t be sniffing the play in IMO.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Absolutely. They should be dealing Booker.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
If they wait they turn a 3 to 5 year rebuild into a 10 year rebuild unless they get lucky like the Mavs just did.
the moops
Footballguy
I agree. i wasn't actually talking about Booker, just the general sense of what teams think they need to do
msudaisy26
Footballguy
The Thunder paid out 882 million dollars to Chet, Williams, and SGA this summer. That is crazy.
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