Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Lions may be 0-5, but they are 3-2 ATS.
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2024 Detroit Lions: Draft complete. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Lions top 6 players:
1) Frank Ragnow - Out for season after 3.25 games toe surgery
2) T.J. Hockenson - Playing through a knee injury
3) Taylor Decker - Missed all 5 games after finger surgery
4) Trey Flowers - Missed 2 games with knee/shoulder injuries
5) Romeo Okwara - Out for season after 3.25 games ruptured achilles
6) D’Andre Swift - has been managing a groin injury every week since August
:confetti:
1) Frank Ragnow - Out for season after 3.25 games toe surgery
2) T.J. Hockenson - Playing through a knee injury
3) Taylor Decker - Missed all 5 games after finger surgery
4) Trey Flowers - Missed 2 games with knee/shoulder injuries
5) Romeo Okwara - Out for season after 3.25 games ruptured achilles
6) D’Andre Swift - has been managing a groin injury every week since August
:confetti:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
But on the plus side, a couple of their lousy players are also injured.
The Gator
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
If he was in TSP, Bashaud Breeland would be posting in the "Oops! I won't do that again" thread today.
Moonlight
Footballguy
I'm going to look at this way. The Lions are going to get most of the bad breaks, poor officiating decisions, injury epidemics and poor coaching decisions out of their system this year.Kal El said:
Next year 2022 Holmes will draft more talent to supplement and build on, likely drafting our future franchise QB, Campbell and the coaching staff will continue to grow and develop their vision, Detroit will increasingly become a place where players and coaches want to be, we will win more games and build for a winning season the year after in 2023.
In 2023 we will have a great deal of cap space to extend our talent and add select FAs. Holmes will draft more talent and Campbell will be a veteran coach, tempered steel that has gone through the hellish season of 2021and the growing pains of 2022.
Fantasy maybe but I think it can happen.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
anybody watch What We Do In The Shadows on Hulu?
every time I think of Goofy - rookies Wilson and Lawrence are the only two QBs with more turnovers - I start muttering like Nandor the Relentless.
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2021 got sacrificed for the future. Everyone knew the deal going in.
tough year to be a fan, but IMO it's easy to believe they are going about things in the right way. it's a long process and we have a ton of holes in the roster (like, IDK, a QB who doesn't suck donkey balls.) they have the draft capital and the scouting team to get this thing built, but still a long ways to go (obviously.)
every time I think of Goofy - rookies Wilson and Lawrence are the only two QBs with more turnovers - I start muttering like Nandor the Relentless.
_______________
2021 got sacrificed for the future. Everyone knew the deal going in.
- dealt the franchise QB for a boatload of picks
- let every UFA walk to max out on next year's compensatory picks (TBD but likely 4 - we usually have 0.)
- spent minimal in FA acquisitions (Jamaal, Analzone were relatively low value, the two WRs were both prove it deals so no NBD that it didn't pan out.)
- DID NOT draft according to needs but rather BPA across the board. they went out and got their guys without taking into consideration what still needs to be addressed (alpha WR, speed on D especially LBs.)
- have started to develop an identity. this team is not an easy out. despite massive injuries (I think we are up to 12 or 13 on IR, I've lost track) we still have a good offensive line and a vastly improved D line. we can run the ball, and we can create havoc getting after the QB. not where we need to be in terms of coverage or stopping the run, but you can easily see the type of team DC wants. you can quibble about if that style will work in today's league when you have to have explosive playmakers who are capable of splash plays. I get that, I do. but regardless, he has a vision of what he wants. let's let it play out.
- Sheila has made some excellent hires in Spielman and Holmes. everybody on the staff exudes positivity. the assistants do a great job teaching the youngest team in the league. he's had a lot of help but it's pretty incredible how much Dan Campbell has changed the culture. sooner or later it's about wins and losses, but for right now it's about direction not speed.
tough year to be a fan, but IMO it's easy to believe they are going about things in the right way. it's a long process and we have a ton of holes in the roster (like, IDK, a QB who doesn't suck donkey balls.) they have the draft capital and the scouting team to get this thing built, but still a long ways to go (obviously.)
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
This year is going perfectly, competing hard and losing games. I do hope for Campbells sake they can grab at least one victory.
Dizzy
Footballguy
FWIW - Dan Campbell has NFL street cred and seems to be liked/respected based on that experience. His team goes 0-5 and he is in tears at the presser dealing with the pain he feels for his payers that lay it on the line every week.
Urban Meyer has a checkered history at the JV level, has made questionable moves as a NFL newbie, and dealt with his 0-4 start by sending his team home unaccompanied while he got an impromptu lap grind from his watering hole's PR girl.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Exactly. Campbell is behaving exactly how you want the coach of an 0-5 team to behave. Reminds me of Flores his first year in Miami. That team was way worse than Detroit and was getting embarrassed on the reg, but the players all stuck with him and believed in him, and by the end of their season they won a few games and set themselves up well for the following season. (Of course, now their rebuild appears to have run aground, in large part because they drafted the wrong QB; definite lesson for the Lions there.)
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
No he has said exactly “that’s what we're trying to emulate” but the Lions 2021 is eerily similar to Miami circa 2018-19. Jettison the QB, accumulate draft picks, minimal FA spending, nix bad contracts, taking the dead cap now instead of kicking it down the road. All with the view OK next year we’ll have tons of picks, a lot of cap room, and a window of 2-3 years to reconstruct the roster. Lots of memories bing parts but there is a logical plan to all this.
Unlikely we’re gonna win 5 this year or 10 next season, but on the whole the approach is exactly what the Dolphins did a few years ago.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Never too early for a preview of the Lion's Superbowl.
https://draftwire.usatoday.com/gallery/2022-nfl-mock-draft-3-rounds-steelers-giants-packers-bears-broncos/
https://draftwire.usatoday.com/gallery/2022-nfl-mock-draft-3-rounds-steelers-giants-packers-bears-broncos/
matuski
Footballguy
TartanLion
Footballguy
Malik Willis anybody ? Loved Stafford but after 10 odd years of him I have wondered if it might be fun to have a Lamar/Deshaun/Kyler type who is a proper dual threat.
I wonder if we just keep taking non QB talent this year ( if the 22 QB class is as poor as some suggest ), then get ready to take a QB in ‘23 when Goff will most likely be out the door.
I wonder if we just keep taking non QB talent this year ( if the 22 QB class is as poor as some suggest ), then get ready to take a QB in ‘23 when Goff will most likely be out the door.
They just might do this. They have so many needs that they don't have to take a QB this year. I'm not impressed with the QBs in this class.
Mt. Man
Footballguy
This isn't something I'll look at in any depth before the college football season is in the playoffs, but I wouldn't be surprised. It feels like one of those years that no QB should be taken in the top 10. Not that someone won't, but right now (key words, considering the QBs that were atop the list in the beginning of the year), Corral and Willis shine the most, and neither brightly enough to deserve top 5 consideration past the idea that Detroit and Houston will likely be there, and they need a QB, right?
I don't know the philosophy of the draft room that well. But the Lions organization I know won't be interested in drafting a QB with Goff still costing so much on the books. So it's probably Thibodeaux, or CB/S (and ignore the grumblings that we might have redrafted Odukah), or trade down. Again, something to look into deeper around Turkey Day, though. Things will shift again by then.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Don’t force drafting a QB if the right guy isn’t there. I am not overly impressed with the projected first round QBs and think Malik is a big project. Trade down and load up on picks would be optimal if an option.
TartanLion
Footballguy
I’d look at this draft class just gone and be hopeful that the Lions won’t force a QB, since they didn’t take one this year. Having said that, having a rookie QB on the books for TWO years of Goffs money being there as well is a different prospect to taking a QB to sit for the ONE left of Goffs deal. I’ve always liked how taking a QB to sit for a year behind a more experienced QB dovetails. It makes sense. I’ve never understood the need to throw a young just drafted QB to the wolves immediately if a situation allows them to sit for a season and learn. Think Mahomes/Alex Smith
EG if we had a chance at Malik Willis and did actually really like him, then he’d have the opportunity to sit for an entire year behind Goff and he’d hopefully be much less of a project by the time he saw the field
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Pretty much what I expected. There is very little talent on this team. Its a multi-year rebuild.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I agree. Right now the talent level is as bad as an expansion team if not worse. Might be 3 years to get back to 500.
Agree. And don't forget the Lions have $50 million in dead cap space, which I think was the right thing to do. Short term pain for long term gain. I'm sure its a big reason why they got 6 year contracts.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Lions fans have had long term pain though. The sad thing is many life long fans who were born in Detroit are now indifferent about the Lions. They do not expect them to win or to have sustained success. So they are not that upset when they lose.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Everyone still think Goff is a top 20 QB?
I'm not a fan because of the turnovers but it doesn't help that he doesn't have any WRs that can separate. This might be the worst group of receivers that I have ever seen.
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Deamon
Footballguy
Yep it's not good. Still don't think he's top 20 though. Don't think his coach does either.
matuski
Footballguy
And Oline, and defense, and RBs, and, and, and, and...
ie .. welcome to the Detroit Lions franchise.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
X
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I'm totally fine with what the Lions are doing. They decided that a complete teardown was the right way to approach this rebuild. Part of that is taking the $50 million in dead cap space now instead of kicking it down the road. That is the biggest reason they let all of the WRs walk. It's why they didn't spend much on free agents and other than Jamaal Williams getting 2 years, the rest got one year contracts. There are a lot of holes and they are building the core through the draft, which is how it should be.
I'm not surprised they are this bad because they arguably have the least talented roster in the league. They have also had significant injuries to their 3 best players, Ragnow, Okwara, and Decker. Before the season I thought they would win 2 games. They simply lack talent.
That being said I am optimistic about the direction they are headed in but it's going to take time. They will have 2 high firsts, 2 lower firsts, and 2 high 2nds in the next 2 drafts. That will go a long way towards building the core of the team.
I'm not surprised they are this bad because they arguably have the least talented roster in the league. They have also had significant injuries to their 3 best players, Ragnow, Okwara, and Decker. Before the season I thought they would win 2 games. They simply lack talent.
That being said I am optimistic about the direction they are headed in but it's going to take time. They will have 2 high firsts, 2 lower firsts, and 2 high 2nds in the next 2 drafts. That will go a long way towards building the core of the team.
Moonlight
Footballguy
This was the Lions' worst game of the year.
Seemed listless and, if they cant run, offense is dead in the water.
Also Chase over Sewell was right call for Bengals so far.
Also Lions had 9 penalties to Bengals 4. Want to see improvement going forward but not much in this game. That being said I think the Bengals are a good team and underrated.
Seemed listless and, if they cant run, offense is dead in the water.
Also Chase over Sewell was right call for Bengals so far.
Also Lions had 9 penalties to Bengals 4. Want to see improvement going forward but not much in this game. That being said I think the Bengals are a good team and underrated.
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matuski
Footballguy
If?
They havent had a 1000 yard rusher since Reggie Bush. Yea.. that Reggie Bush. And he made it by a yard or so if I recall.
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Moonlight
Footballguy
You are right. Their defense was abysmal last year and needed basically a total rebuild. Lost their top WRs and their top notch QB from the offense. Stafford kept them competitive in many games. Their OL was supposed to be top 10 but injuries to Decker, Ragnow and Sewell's struggles have killed them. Quinn and Patricia were a disaster.Da Guru said:
We need to keep on being patient and looking for improvement from rookies/FAs. Holmes needs to keep those draft choices tight to his body and not fritter them away as he did on Benson who was likely going to be cut.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
She has made great hires. She inherited a toxic environment in the middle of a pandemic. Within six months the HC & GM who destroyed this team were out. Completely shifted the culture at the facility.
When her mom faced the same situation in 2013 - HC completely lost his team* - they leaned on Ernie Accosi. That resulted in the. JC hire, next year they had their best season since 1991 (11-5) and went 6-0 v the NFC North. But we also lost our NFL 9th and 10th straight playoff games.
*ASIDE - for the folks with amnesia who claim Jim Schwartz was a good HC, Detroit finished 2012 with 8 straight losses. The next year were in first place after Week 10. Not only were they 6-3, Rodgers had a broken collarbone, the Bears were also playing their backup QB, the Vikings were starting Christian Ponder....IT. WAS. RIGHT. THERE. for the taking. 1-6 finish, with four losses by 3 points or less. This may or may not have been the year a certain Lions fan announced to TSP he was quitting his Lions fandom bc he couldn’t stand the pain anymore.
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Anyway, other than jon mx, no one thought you would need two hands to count their 2021 wins. There is a plan and it’s going exactly the way it was supposed to, play tough, be semi-competitive, but it’s a bare bones operation. Just not enough talent but that’s what happens when you do a complete rebuild. We spent 10 years trying to band aid together a team for Matthew. Both the team and Stafford are in a much better place. We no longer have the burden of trying to win with the best QB in franchise history. We are free to reconstruct the roster top to bottom.
They're trying to build this the right way. Grave dancers aside, Goff is irrelevant to the long term plan. Nothing more than a two year placeholder. I posted on May 9th this year (& next) is not about Goff, shortly after the Philly troll first brought his #### posting in here. #16 is a placeholder and I’ve consistently said that all summer. I posted on July 27th we’ll need to draft a franchise QB, even though economically it makes sense for Jared to start the next two seasons. On August 23rd I said Goff will be QB20-26.
Only a fool thinks men aren’t allowed to change their minds.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I posted a retort last night but edited after about ten minutes.
Y'all remember the old saying "never get into a mud wrestling match with a pig"?
The problem is the pig likes it, and you'll just end up dirty.
Y'all remember the old saying "never get into a mud wrestling match with a pig"?
The problem is the pig likes it, and you'll just end up dirty.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I'm rooting for the Lions to win a few games, and I'm a big fan of Dan Campbell.
Having said that, I wasn't the biggest fan of the presser calling for Goff to step up.
Coach is right but I'm not sure those comments are best conveyed in a presser to the media.
Everyone knows (?) that Goff is a play action qb doomed to score no more than 3 points in a superbowl. The Lions decided to trade away Stafford and roll out Goff in 2021, so what's the point of trashing a player in a postgame?
Hopefully Goff comes out and says "coach is right" and this blows over, but I wouldn't call it Campbell's best day.
Having said that, I wasn't the biggest fan of the presser calling for Goff to step up.
Coach is right but I'm not sure those comments are best conveyed in a presser to the media.
Everyone knows (?) that Goff is a play action qb doomed to score no more than 3 points in a superbowl. The Lions decided to trade away Stafford and roll out Goff in 2021, so what's the point of trashing a player in a postgame?
Hopefully Goff comes out and says "coach is right" and this blows over, but I wouldn't call it Campbell's best day.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Context is kind of important, eh.
- "When you get an ### whupping that bad, that's on me."
- Dan Campbell said he never thought about sitting Jared Goff today. Calls this a collective bad effort by the offense.
- "He (Goff) needs to step up more than he has."
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TartanLion
Footballguy
I completely disagree. It’s not like he threw him entirely under the bus. I found it refreshing to be honest. Goff doesn’t have a lot around him, but he’s also not playing well either aside from that, with a lot of fumbles and errant passes missing open men. Not to mention being very poor in situational football. Leaders come in many shapes and forms and Stafford most certainly was one of a type who isn’t a rabble rouser, but leads by example by showing his toughness and his abilities in crunch time. Goff doesn’t strike me as someone who can lead a group of men in any way really. He’s just totally vanilla all round and comes across as really passive. It’s fair for Campbell, in context, to ask him to stand up in some way and try and make something happen. It’s not like Campbell has at all shirked his own responsibilities or not taken blame, even though he’s in charge of a squad that is absolutely threadbare.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Goff does not look very good..but even if Stafford were still here there with these WRs it would not be much better. Not sure any Lion WR would make another NFL team.
Jansen before the game on The ticket said "They need a win to keep giving the effort" yesterday it seems the effort is running out of gas."
The lack of resources around Goff certainly prevents him from excelling in this situation, but he's even squandered what few opportunities are being presented. He's missed a number of open receivers, and his ball placement on many completions has been suspect at best. He seems to bail and check down extremely early in the play, even when the pocket appears to be holding.
I knew he had limitations coming in to this, and that he was unlikely to thrive where things weren't going to stay on schedule with the offense. I didn't expect him to do so poorly when things did actually come together from one play to the next. He's actually failed to meet my already very low expectations for him. I really thought he was a better passer than he has shown. The little I had watched him in the past gave me the impression that he was pretty accurate when he could just set and throw. I haven't seen that this year.
He's hardly the cause of this start, it was no secret that this team was bereft of talent coming in to this year. It's year 1 of what was acknowledged to be a multi year rebuild. I guess I was prepared to see how he handled it, how he looked, in hopes that maybe he could recapture whatever made him the #1 overall pick in the draft. I wasn't ruling out that he could show enough that perhaps he could hold down the QB spot for the team beyond the 2 years we knew we were stuck with him. What I've seen so far has left me saying there is zero chance of that. He is not going to be taking snaps for a winning Lions team, if that ever comes to be.
I knew he had limitations coming in to this, and that he was unlikely to thrive where things weren't going to stay on schedule with the offense. I didn't expect him to do so poorly when things did actually come together from one play to the next. He's actually failed to meet my already very low expectations for him. I really thought he was a better passer than he has shown. The little I had watched him in the past gave me the impression that he was pretty accurate when he could just set and throw. I haven't seen that this year.
He's hardly the cause of this start, it was no secret that this team was bereft of talent coming in to this year. It's year 1 of what was acknowledged to be a multi year rebuild. I guess I was prepared to see how he handled it, how he looked, in hopes that maybe he could recapture whatever made him the #1 overall pick in the draft. I wasn't ruling out that he could show enough that perhaps he could hold down the QB spot for the team beyond the 2 years we knew we were stuck with him. What I've seen so far has left me saying there is zero chance of that. He is not going to be taking snaps for a winning Lions team, if that ever comes to be.
